[Intermediate Question] How is EVERY cute girl taken? How big a factor is location?

[Jeff]

Hey guys,

Been a while. I'm in Bangalore, India - a city I'm totally disappointed with.

While I've gotten laid a bunch (double digits not triple), and have a couple hundred dates at least, I'm finding that I'm having to work REALLY hard to get results.

By that I mean, on average one new chick a month from day game since I do that most of the time.

@Chase has addressed my burnout/plateau situation here.

I'm working on everything he has mentioned in that post.

Meanwhile, I have friends in Delhi who are gaming all the time, getting pretty kickass results fairly consistently.

A new girl every week or so.

I've gone to Delhi 3-4 times over the last year for a couple days each and ended up getting laid/makeouts although I was generally having my worst nights there.

I performed better on my worst nights there than I have on my best days here. I plan on moving there in the next three months and sign up for Alek's coaching after I move.

Two issues I'm facing here in Bangalore are:

1. The girls are very shy, reserved. They will hook if you are chill and handle their objections. They might join you on an instant date or give you their instagrams/numbers.

But when you go home and you're about to text time, you'll find that they've already blocked/unfollowed you.

I've had this happen many times - I'd run a great interaction or a great date but then I'd come back to have them block me.

And I don't do anything to trigger their ASD/buyer's remorse either.

Did not happen in Delhi though. So this makes me wonder location plays a huge part since Delhi girls can be bitchy in the beginning but sexual and open once you break through.

Bangalore girls seem to be the other way round.

2. There's a severe scarcity of volume. Quantity and quality, both.

Every once in a while, you might find someone half-way cute. And every time I approach these chicks, it turns out they have a boyfriend.

Sure, I try to take it as far as possible to see how serious they really are.

But it has to come to a point where I don't want to talk to them because I know I won't get them. I've always had this problem.

Has this happened to you guys?

What am I missing?

@Chase @Teevster @Hector Papi Castillo

~Jeff

 

[Conquistador]

Part of it might be regional variations in culture and cosmopolitanness. Delhi is Delhi. Bangalore is deep south, no?

 

[Jeff]

Part of it might be regional variations in culture and cosmopolitanness. Delhi is Delhi. Bangalore is deep south, no?

That's correct.

 

[Teevster]

Well, you can try to reframe her objections with ASD busters through sex talk but oftentimes that isn't enough.

So let us look at what else you have... yeah comfort... mostly rapport, social proof and investement. This is something few guys struggle establishing, however they skip that phase once they are back at the seduction location. wait a bit before escalating and focus on rapport building. This can be done simultaneously as you set ASD-busting frames.

BUT... this may ALSO not be enough.

Could it be that she is ULTRA conservative? Perhaps... but unlikely... because if she were she wouldn't be dating random guys (i.e. go back to some random guy's place) or go to bar and nightclubs. Anything a guy mention "a conversative girl" in the context of nightgame, I stop taking that guy seriously. I met a few "conversative" girls that would be considered by most as "ultra conservative" during nightgame - one was a female protestant priest. I pulled her... no biggie. Two others, where Muslim girls who were out without their "parents' consent" and would wear hijab during daytime (one even wore the Burka for 6 years while with her ex! and she is the biggest freak out there). The last one was a Christian zealot, who I didn't bang because she drove me crazy talking about Jesus and god all the time. She was more "crazy" than "conservative".

I have met many semi conservative girls, although a few ASD-Breakers, comfort and frame control do the job.

We need to remember that conservatism and the ideals that they contain are usually masculine values. Women submit to them, not because they are "true believers" (being a "true believer" in a cause or an ideal is usually a masculine thing - women follow the current and submit to ideals based on what benefits them (based on their social context).

Why am I saying this? Well women will use those "ideals" (e.g. conservative ideals) as a PRETEXT for their instrumental needs and desires ... which in most cases are: making you submit and commit, or because they want to attention seek (and all of these are interrelated).

And in the context of "casual sex" it is almost always (but NOT always) about attention seeking. They use their "conservatism" as a pretext to resist and drive you nuts, to make you chase, and to make you validate her.

I do not like to say this out loud because many guys want those "conservative" girls, and what I just said would shatter their reality.

But truth is, conservative girls are usually just attention whores.

For years, I though it was all ASD... so I focused on that... delivered ASD busters after ASD busters without success.

I wasn't until I realized that frame control (meta-frame) was what was needed. What was needed was to tackle it as you would with the typical attention whore.

The moment I would start ignoring her back at my place, the more I would hold back, the less attention I would give, the less her so called "conservatism" would be pronounced.

Funny right?

And this is almost always the case.

For women... conservatism is a pretext for attention whoring.

The solution? Frame control.

-Teevster

 

[killerman]

Hey guys,

Been a while. I'm in Bangalore, India - a city I'm totally disappointed with.

While I've gotten laid a bunch (double digits not triple), and have a couple hundred dates at least, I'm finding that I'm having to work REALLY hard to get results.

By that I mean, on average one new chick a month from day game since I do that most of the time.

@Chase has addressed my burnout/plateau situation here.

I'm working on everything he has mentioned in that post.

Meanwhile, I have friends in Delhi who are gaming all the time, getting pretty kickass results fairly consistently.

A new girl every week or so.

I've gone to Delhi 3-4 times over the last year for a couple days each and ended up getting laid/makeouts although I was generally having my worst nights there.

I performed better on my worst nights there than I have on my best days here. I plan on moving there in the next three months and sign up for Alek's coaching after I move.

Two issues I'm facing here in Bangalore are:

1. The girls are very shy, reserved. They will hook if you are chill and handle their objections. They might join you on an instant date or give you their instagrams/numbers.

But when you go home and you're about to text time, you'll find that they've already blocked/unfollowed you.

I've had this happen many times - I'd run a great interaction or a great date but then I'd come back to have them block me.

And I don't do anything to trigger their ASD/buyer's remorse either.

Did not happen in Delhi though. So this makes me wonder location plays a huge part since Delhi girls can be bitchy in the beginning but sexual and open once you break through.

Bangalore girls seem to be the other way round.

2. There's a severe scarcity of volume. Quantity and quality, both.

Every once in a while, you might find someone half-way cute. And every time I approach these chicks, it turns out they have a boyfriend.

Sure, I try to take it as far as possible to see how serious they really are.

But it has to come to a point where I don't want to talk to them because I know I won't get them. I've always had this problem.

Has this happened to you guys?

What am I missing?

@Chase @Teevster @Hector Papi Castillo

~Jeff

Maybe only approach girls who are absolutely stunning, not just cute, and girls who give you approach invitations. I had this problem, it's easy to approach every girl who looks cute or who has one nice attribute eg one girl might not have a great face or body but she has a great ass. Problem is you approach girls who aren't even that into you hence high rejection rate. But if you only focus on 8s, 9s (there arent too many of them around) and girls who give you approach invitations then a far greater percentage of your approaches will be successful and you'll be running more effective game. Hope this helps. Oh and work like crazy on your fundamentals, get your fashion, eye contact, voice tonality down HARD. Go lift weights 5 times a week, get lean as hell. These things will only give you more success.

 

[Railer]

I do not like to say this out loud because many guys want those "conservative" girls, and what I just said would shatter their reality.

But truth is, conservative girls are usually just attention whores.

Your post reminds me of the girl I'm crushing on. On our date she even said that she likes attention ... and when she got it, her face lit up beautifully xD

Damn ... does "attention whore" relate to "whore"? Seems a girl may have all the traits of either, without the other.

In this case, she's from the countryside, her schedule seems filled with work, then studies at night, posts the most boring stuff on IG, has a drawing as profile pic on WhatsApp, visits family for vacation instead of partying with friends ... not her parents though - broken relationship there.

the less attention I would give, the less her so called "conservatism" would be pronounced.

Any way to create rumination when at distance before withdrawing attention by stopping to message altogether?

Just before I read this I sent something among the likes of "I already have a new idea [for a meet-up] .. Ready to hear it?". Now feel like adding "Nevermind. I've changed my mind." in case she responds positively. The other route would be to go for a date, but with equally bad logistics as the first.

 

[Teevster]

Your post reminds me of the girl I'm crushing on. On our date she even said that she likes attention ... and when she got it, her face lit up beautifully xD

I am not saying that "sometimes "conservative" girls are attention whores", what I am saying is that in 90% of the cases they are. The correlation is STRONG.

Yeah you can tell when women love getting attention. It is a very special type of smile that is easily recognizable.

Damn ... does "attention whore" relate to "whore"? Seems a girl may have all the traits of either, without the other.

Nah, because the term "whore" in itself means little. I mean one girl who is very open and expressive about her sexuality (i.e. the "freak") may be considered a whore. She fucks 3 dudes a month.

Another one, is a shy girl, not expressive. she fucks 4 dudes a month.

One will be considered a whore, the other won't.

What constitutes a whore?

Is it about how many dude she fucks?
How she fucks them? (she is pure virgin is her pussy is untouched, although she has sucked 20 cocks?)
How she expresses her sexuality in public (like in my example?)
What she trades for to get sex? Attention? vengeance? sex?


Basically, you can't find any correlation because "whore" alone means very little.

It is usually just a term used by men with no game to express frustration towards women.

In this case, she's from the countryside, her schedule seems filled with work, then studies at night, posts the most boring stuff on IG, has a drawing as profile pic on WhatsApp, visits family for vacation instead of partying with friends ... not her parents though - broken relationship there.

Think about it. Girls love attention. She gets little of it because of work (little time socializing) and does not live in a city (cities = attention source!)

Now, whenever she gets around men she will have two desires: attention and sex.

The latter is suppressed due to her social frame, which she accepts due to the social benefits is gives her (social praise in her community, and a pretext to hold back sex as a mean to acquire more attention). So, she gets a lot of the former. This is the primary mechanism at play

Problem is, at some point biology and natural desires (attention is a natural desire that is accentuated with modernity) kicks in and the need for sex becomes imminent, but it crashes with her "social frame" and you end up getting tons of cognitive dissonance, weird behaviour, and other forms of neuroticism. And then she cracks, and she will fuck like a major "whore" and regret the next day and all kind of drama occurs unless you frame everything correctly and proceed the right way.

Because the secondary mechanism at play is that the more a desire is suppressed the more it will grow and the more explicitly it will be expressed once it comes out. This is Freudian/Reichian psychoanalysis 101. Also kinks and fetishes are based on this theory explained by current or past suppression of sexuality: kinks and fetishes are developed by desires being suppressed, and thus beginning to express themselves towards other objects or physical attributes than those that are naturally associated with them. This is why "conservative" girls, or past conservative girls usually has fetishes.

Add to this, you will have the neuroticism and all the other psychological issues caused by the conflict between her social frame ("good conservative girl" and her sexual desires) and you get a mess of a girl.

In fact, look carefully....

not her parents though - broken relationship there.

Red flag no?

Any way to create rumination when at distance before withdrawing attention by stopping to message altogether?

Move on. This is not how you get those girls.

She either meets up, or you will be spinning forever on the wheel of attention whoring together with plenty of other men.

Just before I read this I sent something among the likes of "I already have a new idea [for a meet-up] .. Ready to hear it?". Now feel like adding "Nevermind. I've changed my mind." in case she responds positively. The other route would be to go for a date, but with equally bad logistics as the first.

Not sure if sounding like a bipolar chick is the way to go.
This is not how you show mixed signals. There is a fine line between generating ambiguity, and displaying bi-polarity.

-Teevster

 

[Jeff]

Well, you can try to reframe her objections with ASD busters through sex talk but oftentimes that isn't enough.

So let us look at what else you have... yeah comfort... mostly rapport, social proof and investement. This is something few guys struggle establishing, however they skip that phase once they are back at the seduction location. wait a bit before escalating and focus on rapport building. This can be done simultaneously as you set ASD-busting frames.

BUT... this may ALSO not be enough.

Could it be that she is ULTRA conservative? Perhaps... but unlikely... because if she were she wouldn't be dating random guys (i.e. go back to some random guy's place) or go to bar and nightclubs. Anything a guy mention "a conversative girl" in the context of nightgame, I stop taking that guy seriously. I met a few "conversative" girls that would be considered by most as "ultra conservative" during nightgame - one was a female protestant priest. I pulled her... no biggie. Two others, where Muslim girls who were out without their "parents' consent" and would wear hijab during daytime (one even wore the Burka for 6 years while with her ex! and she is the biggest freak out there). The last one was a Christian zealot, who I didn't bang because she drove me crazy talking about Jesus and god all the time. She was more "crazy" than "conservative".

I have met many semi conservative girls, although a few ASD-Breakers, comfort and frame control do the job.

We need to remember that conservatism and the ideals that they contain are usually masculine values. Women submit to them, not because they are "true believers" (being a "true believer" in a cause or an ideal is usually a masculine thing - women follow the current and submit to ideals based on what benefits them (based on their social context).

Why am I saying this? Well women will use those "ideals" (e.g. conservative ideals) as a PRETEXT for their instrumental needs and desires ... which in most cases are: making you submit and commit, or because they want to attention seek (and all of these are interrelated).

And in the context of "casual sex" it is almost always (but NOT always) about attention seeking. They use their "conservatism" as a pretext to resist and drive you nuts, to make you chase, and to make you validate her.

I do not like to say this out loud because many guys want those "conservative" girls, and what I just said would shatter their reality.

But truth is, conservative girls are usually just attention whores.

For years, I though it was all ASD... so I focused on that... delivered ASD busters after ASD busters without success.

I wasn't until I realized that frame control (meta-frame) was what was needed. What was needed was to tackle it as you would with the typical attention whore.

The moment I would start ignoring her back at my place, the more I would hold back, the less attention I would give, the less her so called "conservatism" would be pronounced.

Funny right?

And this is almost always the case.

For women... conservatism is a pretext for attention whoring.

The solution? Frame control.

-Teevster

Yup, I've seen this happen many times. There were times that I was able to identify when she was using her "conservativeness" to play the attention game.

But I may not have read this in many other situations with many other girls.

Do you mind giving me an example of how you would deal with this using a meta frame?

 

[Teevster]

Yup, I've seen this happen many times. There were times that I was able to identify when she was using her "conservativeness" to play the attention game.

But I may not have read this in many other situations with many other girls.

Do you mind giving me an example of how you would deal with this using a meta frame?

Indirect game, escalating the vibe with sex talk to set a sexual frame (even if she resists it, it is ok, just fractionate out - the purpose is that you convey your frame and expressed who you are - a guy who "gets it). Don't show interest, aside from logistical escalation.

The only "ASD" buster that really works is the display of discretion. Set a "secrecy" frame as much as you can.

This is to deal with her social frame. Now to deal with her need for attention:

Generate ambiguity (open loop,s push and pull, massive amounts of fractionation, slight jealousy plots).

Social proof works like hell with those girls (ideal for bar and club settings).

Once it is time to escalate, you need to apply fractionated escalation (also known as push/pull escalation).

This is the summary. I haven't really systematized a true game plan yet, as only lately have I been pulling tons of religious/conservative girls (I bang tons of "Muslim" girls lately, in fact my 3 last pulls where Muslim - they are great).

-Teevster

 

[Railer]

Red flag no?

Definitely. But I run into so many of those girls that I've come to think it's not (only) me anymore. Maybe it's the times we're living in that amp the probabilities of encountering such girls.

I do think that I especially attract girls with daddy-issues - and would definitely like that to change.

As for the girl, your initial post was enough to tear down my positive opinion and let go. She did respond, but just pointing out that she hadn't understood the previous thing I sent. Left it at that and set a reminder a month from now to motivate me to keep the silence.

Meanwhile I keep going with new girls - with the strangest of reactions - but I'll have to depict those in a separate thread.

 

[Railer]

Meanwhile I keep going with new girls - with the strangest of reactions - but I’ll have to depict those in a separate thread.

Now published as Not getting dates from night game any more ({4} was the crush)

 

[RedNeck]

@Teevster , I always like your posts.

A little tangent here if you do not mind. Is the compliance test the test to see if she is an attention"whore or not?

Here I am thinking she might be compliant with some requests while resisting others. Where do we draw the line? Of course, if sex happens, then we have a verdict. I am talking about anything in between.