- Joined
- Aug 16, 2023
- Messages
- 8
Hi all, I used to be on the ASF forums as PUA_in-training, got the hang of things but wasn't a pro, got what most people would consider a lot of sex, then got into an LTR and forgot a lot of it/went soft. Now I still have the voice in the back of my head/the 'instincts' from stuff I intenralised but not the sepcifics and not all of it. What I mean is, forgive if this sounds like noob shit.
I went out with a couple girls (separately) from Bumble, after I got out of an LTR so my head wasn't right and I didn't have any plans for an ONS so didn't have a place to stay booked or condoms or anything ...just went out to get back into things and see who's out there. First girl seemed a bit prudish and boring and I wasn't really feeling it/was really tired, so I bailed on her. (Later found out she was VERY DTF, just reserved/calm personality).
Called up a 2nd girl after I ditched the first. Let's call her HBNest. She messaged me that we're not having sex (girl-talk for 'I'm thinking of having sex with you but don't want to look like a slut, so make it "just happpen"') She seemed interested in-person and we got along, but again, by that stage, I had worked a 12 hour day, wasn't really feeling it and didn't organise a palce to stay (I'm from a couple towns over), so I cut things short and went home. She kept sying that she trusted me and 'didn't want our night to ennd liek this' and wanted to go wherever I was going and was connsidering coming with me to the next town over just so we could hang out. I left.
We've seen eachother a few times since then but she is stilll very inconsistent. I escalated and things were going great untiil I tried to kiss her and she told me she was a virgin and super christian and doesn't kiss guys etc. The willingness/compliance to escalate sexually from her is very inconsistent. For exampple, sometimes I can have my face burried in her boobs in public, other times she freaks out when I touch them, other times it's perfectly fine, other times she's escalating out of nowhere, but still won't kiss or have sex (just gets to a point and stops). She's told me that she doesn't want to have sex because she feels nothing when guys touch her and I used that as an excuse to do a reverse Marylin Monroe gambit and get in some escalation but that didn't work. Other times, she'll tell me she wants to be in a relationship with me, have my babies etc. (Yes, she's a little cray-cray, or maybe that's her uncalibrated girl version of running game)
At one stage we were chilling and drinking and she started talking all seductively but then started doing some 'spiritual ritual' which involved us standing there holding hands. Every PUA instinct I had told me not to take it too serously and after a minute or two it showed on my face and she got really upset and stopped her ritual. Looking back at it now, she started that out by saying waht a spiritual person she is and followed with heavy IOIs and sultry voice, ... so it's probable that she was doing some sort of spiritual binding ritual because she was horny, just so she could rationalise having sex with me without being married (thoughts like "We're not married, but we did this binding ritual so we're together now so that's good enough, let's start fucking!").
I mentioned to her that the inconsistency was a bit weird and she straight up said she had daddy issues and she learnt 'some psychology' on the internet and becamee a mianipulatiive person. Seems like she was into some red pill stuff on the internet and has soome very right-wing/red pill views. ...I almost suspect that she the attention and affection inconsistency from her was a very crude attempt and 101ing.
I decided to return the favour and introduced a tinny bit of structured game (rather than previously not actiively trying to runagme and just teasing her and letting my stories and subext of other options DHV for me). The bot of structuured game was super effective. She went from waiting for me to initiate contact over the phone, to initiating most the contact and keeping conversations going. She also started indirectly admitting that she's into me, and progressed to indirectly telling me she loves me etc. ("Look, I did this nice thing BECAUSE I love you" rather than a direct "I love you"). At this stage she's gotten pretty open about her liking me/wanting a relationship with me but she seems to understand that a relationship isn't a relationship without the sex.
Normaly I'd tell myself to look at a girl's actions rather than her words when things are inconsistent. Her actions tell me she's really into me and her saying that she wants only guys she can't have is just typical girly/bimbo thinking and fundamental knowledge, but still a red flag ...then again I suspect she was trying to 'sound cool' by telling me how guys were obsessed withh her (crappy uncalibrated DHV atttempt?). The fact that she essantiially told me why she is the way she is and tried to indirectly give me the surprisinglly detailed manual for how to run game on her could be an IOI in itself. Non-verbally, IOI's are at 11/10, she gets touchy, pulls my hair, bites/nibbles squeezes up against me, grabs my hand, and so on. Plus whatever she says verbally, the little moans she tries to hide and muscle twitches when I pull her hair or kiss her sides sure seem like she's interested. Investment in the interactions is there. She initiates kino and escalates to a point but stops before making out. Then when I try to escalate to kissing or pul her pants down, she freezes up annd tells me she's not doing that, virgin, etc. I then do a mini freeze-out, and she will come back to touching me after a bit but again freezes up once anythiing more than fondling starts to happen. Kissing/bting anywhere but the lips and boobs is ok. Boobs are either she doesnn't bat an eye when I fondle them under her bra, or she shuts down.
It could be any of these, or I could be totally misreading and it could be none. Looking for some advice/perspective from you guys.
1. Maybe I need to get my physical esalation a bit more calibrated so she just doesn't notice it's time to freak out.
2. Something is telling me that she would have had sex on the first meet, but because I didn't escalate, she's put me into the AFC, or 'nice guy to have a relationship with' category. She seemed overly trusting and wanting to hang out the first time we met, and seemed disappointed I had to leave, then the second time we met a few days later she was more reserved and less compliannt. This makes me suspect that she just got horny and wanted to fuck, but then the second time we hung out, I may have been in 'take things slow, realtinship guy/nice guy' category. I suspect this because of my 2 previious virgin lays* and general ONS experience vs 'dating'.
This is further backed by HBNest telling me that I she tought I was just a player when she first met me (and yet she still seemed very trusting/keen to hang out), but she's glad we kept hanging out.#
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*...The first virgin I ever had sex with, just came over after I met her in day game. She was one of the hottest girls i've met and only cassually mentioned she was a virgin right before we had sex. I didn't even realise she was the one coming over until she showed up, I had her confused with a different girl.
The second virgin I had sex with also showed up to my house after day game and seemed super relaxed and like she was compliant with escalation, but then I didn't get the lay and she became a lot more reserved on seeing me again. ... I fixed the situation with the second one by escalating and mini-freezeouts and A LOT of time and patience. but with HBVirgin 2, she was exteremely keen for orl sex and fonndling etc ...almost addicted to seeing me and getting licked. With her I was pretty direct that I wasn't lookign for marriage at the time and the whole 'no sex before marriage; won't work ...I ended up telling her that the whole no sex thing wasn't working for me, freezing HBVirgin 2 out for or 3 weeks and then she was willing to hahve sex so that she could continue seeing me. ...but there I had leverage of I was still making HBVirgin 2 orgasm throughh oral sex multiple times.
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#I sort-of sorted this out, can explain how if relevant.
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4. At this stage she's pretty open about the fact that she's into me and wants to be wiith me and is calling whhatever it is we're doing a relationship, but she still seems to shut down when I attempt escallating to/past kissing. Maybe I'm just overanalyzing this and putting in too much effort. This girl (The current one, HBNest) is clearly initiating and escalating, even if glacially slowly, so maybe I just need to keep teasing her and let her move things alonng at a pace she's comfortable with. ...then again that sounds a lot like nice guy thinking and letting the girl lead generally doesn't tend to end well.
5. I actually like hanging out with this chick. She's SUPER fun to hang out and just spend time with. Dark sense of humour, super down-to earth, very direct with what she wasnts, abiliity to be introspective, humble, low mainenance, can hold an interesting conversation better than most people I know, a nice person in general, buut I'm sure if you've read this far you've guessed that she also has a whole lot of red flags and self-esteem issues. I'm guessing the usual advice on this forum would be to turn her into a Wing, which would sort out pre-selection and any lingering friendzone issues riight the fuck away ...but I get the feeling that would end with her getting jealous if I did try to pick someone up and starting a fight... or even if not, I'd still have to go home with her becasue it's not like I could just leave her at the clubs if I hook up with a girl. Being in a relationship with this girl would actually be really fun ...until she likely does something crazy likely soon and I have to break up with her.
6. Or it could all be a lie, the IOIs, the mild obsession, the interesting personality ...she could just be a totla psychopath playing me or in it for the green card (foreigner). ...But I could assume that aboout anybody, that's probably my own lack of self-esteem talking and every time I've had those thoughts they have been inacccurate und unproductive. Plus this girl has NO FILTER. She's high IQ but isn't street-smart. She understands WHY people are the way they are but clearly doesn't know how to apply it.
7. She is pretty open about that she has abandonment issues and likes when I'm mean to her due to her daddy issues. (Won't go into details but they daddy issues are strong with this one). (Is this related to liking hair pulled, being choked etc.? There's probably a rape fetish there somewhere) I get the feeling that her saying "'I'm hot and guys get obsessed with me, should really be read as 'I get obsessed with guys, please like me back'.
8. She said she's into guys that don't like her back/guys she can't have, but from what I understand that's most girls, so not really useful info other than a reminder to 'be the prize' keep things ambiguous, etc.
My apologies in advance if this sounds more like a rant, I'm sleep deprived.
Any advice or perspective will be appreciated.
If nothing else, is my read on her wrong? why isn't mini-freezeouts working or working so slowly and incrementally? Am I just out of practice and gone soft from coming out of an LTR? Any advice on how to bust through the LMR, or is it soemthing different?
There's way more going on here that I've written out but I'm trying to not give away any personal details or doxx myself. We've only hung out a handful of times though.
I went out with a couple girls (separately) from Bumble, after I got out of an LTR so my head wasn't right and I didn't have any plans for an ONS so didn't have a place to stay booked or condoms or anything ...just went out to get back into things and see who's out there. First girl seemed a bit prudish and boring and I wasn't really feeling it/was really tired, so I bailed on her. (Later found out she was VERY DTF, just reserved/calm personality).
Called up a 2nd girl after I ditched the first. Let's call her HBNest. She messaged me that we're not having sex (girl-talk for 'I'm thinking of having sex with you but don't want to look like a slut, so make it "just happpen"') She seemed interested in-person and we got along, but again, by that stage, I had worked a 12 hour day, wasn't really feeling it and didn't organise a palce to stay (I'm from a couple towns over), so I cut things short and went home. She kept sying that she trusted me and 'didn't want our night to ennd liek this' and wanted to go wherever I was going and was connsidering coming with me to the next town over just so we could hang out. I left.
We've seen eachother a few times since then but she is stilll very inconsistent. I escalated and things were going great untiil I tried to kiss her and she told me she was a virgin and super christian and doesn't kiss guys etc. The willingness/compliance to escalate sexually from her is very inconsistent. For exampple, sometimes I can have my face burried in her boobs in public, other times she freaks out when I touch them, other times it's perfectly fine, other times she's escalating out of nowhere, but still won't kiss or have sex (just gets to a point and stops). She's told me that she doesn't want to have sex because she feels nothing when guys touch her and I used that as an excuse to do a reverse Marylin Monroe gambit and get in some escalation but that didn't work. Other times, she'll tell me she wants to be in a relationship with me, have my babies etc. (Yes, she's a little cray-cray, or maybe that's her uncalibrated girl version of running game)
At one stage we were chilling and drinking and she started talking all seductively but then started doing some 'spiritual ritual' which involved us standing there holding hands. Every PUA instinct I had told me not to take it too serously and after a minute or two it showed on my face and she got really upset and stopped her ritual. Looking back at it now, she started that out by saying waht a spiritual person she is and followed with heavy IOIs and sultry voice, ... so it's probable that she was doing some sort of spiritual binding ritual because she was horny, just so she could rationalise having sex with me without being married (thoughts like "We're not married, but we did this binding ritual so we're together now so that's good enough, let's start fucking!").
I mentioned to her that the inconsistency was a bit weird and she straight up said she had daddy issues and she learnt 'some psychology' on the internet and becamee a mianipulatiive person. Seems like she was into some red pill stuff on the internet and has soome very right-wing/red pill views. ...I almost suspect that she the attention and affection inconsistency from her was a very crude attempt and 101ing.
I decided to return the favour and introduced a tinny bit of structured game (rather than previously not actiively trying to runagme and just teasing her and letting my stories and subext of other options DHV for me). The bot of structuured game was super effective. She went from waiting for me to initiate contact over the phone, to initiating most the contact and keeping conversations going. She also started indirectly admitting that she's into me, and progressed to indirectly telling me she loves me etc. ("Look, I did this nice thing BECAUSE I love you" rather than a direct "I love you"). At this stage she's gotten pretty open about her liking me/wanting a relationship with me but she seems to understand that a relationship isn't a relationship without the sex.
Normaly I'd tell myself to look at a girl's actions rather than her words when things are inconsistent. Her actions tell me she's really into me and her saying that she wants only guys she can't have is just typical girly/bimbo thinking and fundamental knowledge, but still a red flag ...then again I suspect she was trying to 'sound cool' by telling me how guys were obsessed withh her (crappy uncalibrated DHV atttempt?). The fact that she essantiially told me why she is the way she is and tried to indirectly give me the surprisinglly detailed manual for how to run game on her could be an IOI in itself. Non-verbally, IOI's are at 11/10, she gets touchy, pulls my hair, bites/nibbles squeezes up against me, grabs my hand, and so on. Plus whatever she says verbally, the little moans she tries to hide and muscle twitches when I pull her hair or kiss her sides sure seem like she's interested. Investment in the interactions is there. She initiates kino and escalates to a point but stops before making out. Then when I try to escalate to kissing or pul her pants down, she freezes up annd tells me she's not doing that, virgin, etc. I then do a mini freeze-out, and she will come back to touching me after a bit but again freezes up once anythiing more than fondling starts to happen. Kissing/bting anywhere but the lips and boobs is ok. Boobs are either she doesnn't bat an eye when I fondle them under her bra, or she shuts down.
It could be any of these, or I could be totally misreading and it could be none. Looking for some advice/perspective from you guys.
1. Maybe I need to get my physical esalation a bit more calibrated so she just doesn't notice it's time to freak out.
2. Something is telling me that she would have had sex on the first meet, but because I didn't escalate, she's put me into the AFC, or 'nice guy to have a relationship with' category. She seemed overly trusting and wanting to hang out the first time we met, and seemed disappointed I had to leave, then the second time we met a few days later she was more reserved and less compliannt. This makes me suspect that she just got horny and wanted to fuck, but then the second time we hung out, I may have been in 'take things slow, realtinship guy/nice guy' category. I suspect this because of my 2 previious virgin lays* and general ONS experience vs 'dating'.
This is further backed by HBNest telling me that I she tought I was just a player when she first met me (and yet she still seemed very trusting/keen to hang out), but she's glad we kept hanging out.#
-----
*...The first virgin I ever had sex with, just came over after I met her in day game. She was one of the hottest girls i've met and only cassually mentioned she was a virgin right before we had sex. I didn't even realise she was the one coming over until she showed up, I had her confused with a different girl.
The second virgin I had sex with also showed up to my house after day game and seemed super relaxed and like she was compliant with escalation, but then I didn't get the lay and she became a lot more reserved on seeing me again. ... I fixed the situation with the second one by escalating and mini-freezeouts and A LOT of time and patience. but with HBVirgin 2, she was exteremely keen for orl sex and fonndling etc ...almost addicted to seeing me and getting licked. With her I was pretty direct that I wasn't lookign for marriage at the time and the whole 'no sex before marriage; won't work ...I ended up telling her that the whole no sex thing wasn't working for me, freezing HBVirgin 2 out for or 3 weeks and then she was willing to hahve sex so that she could continue seeing me. ...but there I had leverage of I was still making HBVirgin 2 orgasm throughh oral sex multiple times.
-----
#I sort-of sorted this out, can explain how if relevant.
-----
4. At this stage she's pretty open about the fact that she's into me and wants to be wiith me and is calling whhatever it is we're doing a relationship, but she still seems to shut down when I attempt escallating to/past kissing. Maybe I'm just overanalyzing this and putting in too much effort. This girl (The current one, HBNest) is clearly initiating and escalating, even if glacially slowly, so maybe I just need to keep teasing her and let her move things alonng at a pace she's comfortable with. ...then again that sounds a lot like nice guy thinking and letting the girl lead generally doesn't tend to end well.
5. I actually like hanging out with this chick. She's SUPER fun to hang out and just spend time with. Dark sense of humour, super down-to earth, very direct with what she wasnts, abiliity to be introspective, humble, low mainenance, can hold an interesting conversation better than most people I know, a nice person in general, buut I'm sure if you've read this far you've guessed that she also has a whole lot of red flags and self-esteem issues. I'm guessing the usual advice on this forum would be to turn her into a Wing, which would sort out pre-selection and any lingering friendzone issues riight the fuck away ...but I get the feeling that would end with her getting jealous if I did try to pick someone up and starting a fight... or even if not, I'd still have to go home with her becasue it's not like I could just leave her at the clubs if I hook up with a girl. Being in a relationship with this girl would actually be really fun ...until she likely does something crazy likely soon and I have to break up with her.
6. Or it could all be a lie, the IOIs, the mild obsession, the interesting personality ...she could just be a totla psychopath playing me or in it for the green card (foreigner). ...But I could assume that aboout anybody, that's probably my own lack of self-esteem talking and every time I've had those thoughts they have been inacccurate und unproductive. Plus this girl has NO FILTER. She's high IQ but isn't street-smart. She understands WHY people are the way they are but clearly doesn't know how to apply it.
7. She is pretty open about that she has abandonment issues and likes when I'm mean to her due to her daddy issues. (Won't go into details but they daddy issues are strong with this one). (Is this related to liking hair pulled, being choked etc.? There's probably a rape fetish there somewhere) I get the feeling that her saying "'I'm hot and guys get obsessed with me, should really be read as 'I get obsessed with guys, please like me back'.
8. She said she's into guys that don't like her back/guys she can't have, but from what I understand that's most girls, so not really useful info other than a reminder to 'be the prize' keep things ambiguous, etc.
My apologies in advance if this sounds more like a rant, I'm sleep deprived.
Any advice or perspective will be appreciated.
If nothing else, is my read on her wrong? why isn't mini-freezeouts working or working so slowly and incrementally? Am I just out of practice and gone soft from coming out of an LTR? Any advice on how to bust through the LMR, or is it soemthing different?
There's way more going on here that I've written out but I'm trying to not give away any personal details or doxx myself. We've only hung out a handful of times though.
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