Is All of This Really Necessary?

[Mr Mistah]

I always make a point to people watch and observe human interactions every now and then.

And one thing I recently became aware of his how many "normies" and regular Joe's are in what seems to be happy relationships despite not being in the seduction community.

I'm in a social circle where they guy is skinny, nerdy and with very basic fundamentals yet the girl on his arm appeared satisfied to be with him. He even seems to overextend himself in the relationship showering the girl with gifts, picking her up from work and buying her lunch. He does all these "nice guy" things but the girl still looks at him with doe eyes. And I honestly don't get it...

How are these dudes - who are the antithesis of everything we learn in seduction spaces such as this one - able to get AND maintain gfs for that long. This couple in particular has been together 4 years.

These guys don't know the first thing about frame control, shit tests, investment, relationship management, LOLE, proper sexual escalation & teasing, the G spot, A spot (basically they don't know how to give good sex), non-judgementalism and yet they are able to get this far.

(All of this are assumptions btw But you can just observe someone and infer certain things by how they carry themselves)

Seeing such things makes me question why we even bother learning all these complex philosophies and techniques in the seduction community.

If Greg from accounting can pull a girl that he seems to like... why the fuck are we here doing all this? Having semi-autistic in depth discussions about trivial things like proper body language when opening a chick and all.

Is all of it really necessary? And if it is, why does Greg from accounting have things figured out despite not having the faintest clue what something as basic as a shit test is

And while Greg isn't getting together with top shelf models or racking lays like a lothario - he still gets by.

I have also noticed instances where the lover frame (that we preach about in the seduction community) actively worked against me as the girl saw me as too undependable and an unsafe option. I had to self correct and start acting more like Greg from accounting I.e nice guy traits to offset what I guessed were too strong of a lover vibe

So help me out here guys.
Remind me again why we do this when Greg from accounting is able to GET and HOLD ONTO a girl that he likes without even having the faintest clue about male-female dynamics.

I instinctually know that learning this stuff is important but I just need someone to spell it out for me again like I'm 5

I also want to know how Greg is able to get by without knowing any of this stuff.

Tha

 

[Chase]

@Mr Mistah,

If all you’re out for is a good-enough girlfriend, you don’t need seduction, unless you’re a serious late bloomer or have some significant social disadvantage. You can just go through life, chitchat the woman around you, and sooner or later you will get a date or two, and sooner or later it’ll work out.

Nor do you have to be a talented ladies man to retain a woman. Just like most dudes aren’t master pick up artists, most gals aren’t experienced Jezebels or demanding, high-maintenance super hotties. Most girls are just regular girls with average romantic experience and average expectations from men. 50%+ of first marriages never end, and most of the husbands in those marriages are perfectly average with girls.

Seduction is for three people:

1. Guys who love women and want a lot of women in their lives.
2. Guys who aren’t happy with average results and want a serious girl or relationship quality upgrade.
3. Guys who suck socially and need a lot of help getting over their suckage.

If you’re not in one of those three camps, you can probably safely ignore all this seduction stuff, and just go through life, dating whatever gals come your way, marrying one of them, and let the chips fall where they may.

Chase

 

[Bill]

Keep in mind this is just one example and you aren’t seeing everything that’s going on. What happens if the relationship turns sour, how much is he going to double down tolerating bad behavior because he fears he cannot replace her? What happens if they do break up and he has lost his mojo with no clue where to start and is tormented by seeing her partying it up on social media? What about the huge amount of guys getting no or mediocre results, I believe a pew survey found something like among 18-29 year olds twice as many men said they were not in a committed relationships. So many guys settle for women way under the league or with nothing at all.

As for the lover concept working against you, it’s pretty well known in the community and worked on, as early as mystery method they were emphasizing a comfort stage, and in the VBI model Believability is supposed to balance out value.

 

[Mr Mistah]

Seduction is for three people:

1. Guys who love women and want a lot of women in their lives.
2. Guys who aren’t happy with average results and want a serious girl or relationship quality upgrade.
3. Guys who suck socially and need a lot of help getting over their suckage.

Fair point

I guess after years of being too attuned to all this talk of how lovers> providers and that 80% of women get together with 20% of men and that if you don't have an iron clad frame you're wife will cheat on you with the milkman before divorcing you and taking half of what you own blah blah blah

These conversations make it seem like dating is an all out arms race where if you don't hone your seduction skills to the T you get left behind and fade into oblivion.

But when I stopped for a moment to look around me I realised that this is not the case. Look around and you'll start noticing all these happy looking average Joe's with their average looking women leading happy lives.

What happens if they do break up and he has lost his mojo with no clue where to start and is tormented by seeing her partying it up on social media?

Hmm... yeah

Seduction gives you choice and control over your dating life. Makes perfect sense and I fully agree

What about the huge amount of guys getting no or mediocre results, I believe a pew survey found something like among 18-29 year olds twice as many men said they were not in a committed relationships. So many guys settle for women way under the league or with nothing at all.

I agree but on the other hand I think that this point kind of ties into what I've said above.

Such narratives make it seem like without seduction a huge number of the male populous are doomed to never reproduce/propagate their seed or that if they do find a mate it'll be an ugly fatty that only a mother can love

Is this true? Or am I/we victims of the usual redpill cynicism/fear mongering?

Learning seduction is important but how important is it really?

It would a huge mind fuck to learn that civilisation has been around for millions of years just to come and depend on a framework popularised in the early 2000's by Ross Jefferies and a tophat-wearing-magician called Erick Von Markovich.

Anyway, this thread is me deprogramming myself from the belief that seduction is this do or die endeavour that I must attain absolute mastery in or else I'm fucked. Bad programming

 

[ulrich]

I wonder if GREG from accounting is happy with the girl he got.
Or maybe he’s just content because he knows he got lucky despite the fact that her girl is just average.

 

[Skills]

I wonder if GREG from accounting is happy with the girl he got.
Or maybe he’s just content because he knows he got lucky despite the fact that her girl is just average.

This is another coping post:

-is it necessary to go to the gym and be in shape there are people healthy than don't go to the gym...

Is it necessary to make more than 40 k a year...

Is it necessary to own a house vs rent...

Etc... This type of posts are usually made by guys with limited to no experience.,..

There is 0 way of you knowing was goes behind the scenes of those relationships...i have fucked dozens of married women were you would have 0 idea what goes on, they look picture perfect family...

Seduction will give you tons of power and Freedom, it will also give you healthy power and control on relashionships.. I also don't know if you know that some relationships tend to end ...A lot of those guys miserable and getting no sex or the sex diet plan, they are true soldiers cause they don't want te rock the boat and lose the girl....

But, yes some people perfectly happy...do you, have clear goals on what you want, just make sure is no cope like i suspect...in times like this by the way i am not opposed just like corona guys getting a girl and maxing other aspects of life when mating market gets weird like corona and recessions...but some can't even do that...

Again, people have totally bastardized and taking out of context lover and provider stuff:

Date Plans - The lover provider balance keep it ambiguous - troubleshooting

So guys i get many pms, and i see posts about lover provider a lot, people misunderstand the whole thing, this is one of the topics people don't get due to nuances. Ok the lover provider stuff has been discussed to death, and yes it is important, super important..... But as always there are...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Bill]

Such narratives make it seem like without seduction a huge number of the male populous are doomed to never reproduce/propagate their seed or that if they do find a mate it'll be an ugly fatty that only a mother can love

Is this true? Or am I/we victims of the usual redpill cynicism/fear mongering?

Learning seduction is important but how important is it really?

It would a huge mind fuck to learn that civilisation has been around for millions of years just to come and depend on a framework popularised in the early 2000's by Ross Jefferies and a tophat-wearing-magician called Erick Von Markovich.

There are surely plenty of guys who are worse off because they learned seduction, maybe they caught a bad STD or got a crazy girl pregnant and just wished they stayed a virgin. There are also guys who never heard about the community who do even better than the guys in it because of some other factor like exceptional looks, charisma, fame, etc. When we look at anecdotal examples there is one for almost anything.

I’m not saying it’s hopeless, but average effort generally gives average results, and imo the quality of the average result is declining.
For most of human history we lived in small tribes, and for most of civilizational history we had something like arranged marriage going on. It’s not totally comparable to the current situation with normalized casual dating, social media, etc.

 

[Skills]

There are surely plenty of guys who are worse off because they learned seduction, maybe they caught a bad STD or got a crazy girl pregnant and just wished they stayed a virgin. There are also guys who never heard about the community who do even better than the guys in it because of some other factor like exceptional looks, charisma, fame, etc. When we look at anecdotal examples there is one for almost anything.

I know what you are trying to mean, and you mean well, i have been in the community 15 years, really remember maybe 2 of those cases and by the way, never happened, just guys posting scare, pregnancy that is,outside the community I lost count of those cases, but yes stds maybe... My point is std and pregnancies nothing to do with seduction per se more as driving and accidents a result of sex, just slight nitpick...

 

[MuST0BtA1NSkR1Lla]

I always make a point to people watch and observe human interactions every now and then.

And one thing I recently became aware of his how many "normies" and regular Joe's are in what seems to be happy relationships despite not being in the seduction community.

I'm in a social circle where they guy is skinny, nerdy and with very basic fundamentals yet the girl on his arm appeared satisfied to be with him. He even seems to overextend himself in the relationship showering the girl with gifts, picking her up from work and buying her lunch. He does all these "nice guy" things but the girl still looks at him with doe eyes. And I honestly don't get it...

How are these dudes - who are the antithesis of everything we learn in seduction spaces such as this one - able to get AND maintain gfs for that long. This couple in particular has been together 4 years.

These guys don't know the first thing about frame control, shit tests, investment, relationship management, LOLE, proper sexual escalation & teasing, the G spot, A spot (basically they don't know how to give good sex), non-judgementalism and yet they are able to get this far.

(All of this are assumptions btw But you can just observe someone and infer certain things by how they carry themselves)

Seeing such things makes me question why we even bother learning all these complex philosophies and techniques in the seduction community.

If Greg from accounting can pull a girl that he seems to like... why the fuck are we here doing all this? Having semi-autistic in depth discussions about trivial things like proper body language when opening a chick and all.

Is all of it really necessary? And if it is, why does Greg from accounting have things figured out despite not having the faintest clue what something as basic as a shit test is

And while Greg isn't getting together with top shelf models or racking lays like a lothario - he still gets by.

I have also noticed instances where the lover frame (that we preach about in the seduction community) actively worked against me as the girl saw me as too undependable and an unsafe option. I had to self correct and start acting more like Greg from accounting I.e nice guy traits to offset what I guessed were too strong of a lover vibe

So help me out here guys.
Remind me again why we do this when Greg from accounting is able to GET and HOLD ONTO a girl that he likes without even having the faintest clue about male-female dynamics.

I instinctually know that learning this stuff is important but I just need someone to spell it out for me again like I'm 5

I also want to know how Greg is able to get by without knowing any of this stuff.

Tha

You are looking at the situation wrong. Look at PUA as a hobby and a very fun one at that.