Is being able to provide in an LTR optional?

[Dough]

I looked in the mirror today and I realized that after all this work I've put into myself - I've become really really cute! I'm genuinely more adorable than most women. And it got me thinking about gender role reversals. Does anyone know how viable it would be to be in the "dependent" role that women are usually in? Let's say hypothetically she doesn't want kids and I'm the best man she's ever had in every aspect, except I'm unwilling to get a proper job so she has to front the financial side of the relationship. How long would things be likely to last compared to if I were lacking some more normal trait instead?

A different way to phrase my question would be: Is wanting the man to be financially secure in an LTR so important to women that it cannot be removed from the equation, or is it merely optional if she's financially secure herself?

 

[ulrich]

Not having tried this myself, I would venture that think that it is doable BUT would severely limit your pool of available women.

You see these kind of arranges usually with professional and not so attractive over 40s women.

 

[Warped Mindless]

Do you really want to depend on women for money? That’s not only a recipe for a shit life but also gives much of your power away. You can’t very well play the “I can just walk away from you anytime I want” card when she knows she’s the source of you paying your bills.

Im sorry but this is just lame thinking. Be better.

 

[TomInHo]

I've had a few sugar mommas in my time so I would say yes, but it does have some drawbacks

When I did it the women were heavily invested in me and I honestly attribute a lot of my current success to one of my sugar mommas. I lived with her rent free and she also helped me a ton when I was in the startup phase of my business

She was the only woman I was ever monogamous with in my life but with that relationship something odd happened... as I became more successful and independent things began to get rocky. The power imbalance between us got too great and it was a pain dealing with her insecurity.

At the time I thought getting better will make our relationship stronger, but then we had an interesting conversation were I found out she never really wanted me to be her provider. All she wanted was her emotional and sexual needs met but had to end things because my drive to be more independent was just too much

Even now, in a lot of my current relationships, women tend to pour more money into me than I do them. Can't really explain why it happens so often but some women like having a man to take care that also fucks the shit out of them

So I guess it could work to be a kept man but I honestly feel that at some point you'll get tired of it

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

There's a really cool movie about this, recommended - I watched it several times

Spread (2009) ⭐ 5.8 | Comedy, Drama, Romance

1h 37m | R

www.imdb.com

I'm with Warped Mindless, I don't think it would be a good position to be in, especially long term. Make something of yourself, you'll be thankful you did later on... especially as your looks start to go.

I don't think you can be a real man if you don't have that side of your life handled. You should at least be able to clothe yourself and feed yourself to still be able to look at yourself in the mirror.

2c

 

[Skills]

I looked in the mirror today and I realized that after all this work I've put into myself - I've become really really cute! I'm genuinely more adorable than most women. And it got me thinking about gender role reversals. Does anyone know how viable it would be to be in the "dependent" role that women are usually in? Let's say hypothetically she doesn't want kids and I'm the best man she's ever had in every aspect, except I'm unwilling to get a proper job so she has to front the financial side of the relationship. How long would things be likely to last compared to if I were lacking some more normal trait instead?

A different way to phrase my question would be: Is wanting the man to be financially secure in an LTR so important to women that it cannot be removed from the equation, or is it merely optional if she's financially secure herself?

I have been able to do this with every one of my mains since my teans... i teach how to do this here: http://www.theskillsmethod.com/hustle-game-forbidden-seduction-series/

 

[Skills]

Not having tried this myself, I would venture that think that it is doable BUT would severely limit your pool of available women.

You see these kind of arranges usually with professional and not so attractive over 40s women.

Not true, you dont sell this from the go... you do it after they are heavily invested...can be done with any girl, any background

 

[Dough]

Can't really explain why it happens so often but some women like having a man to take care that also fucks the shit out of them

It sounds like maybe you subconsciously have it framed as chasing? I could see the argument that if your girl sees providing for you as a attainability equalizer + chasing you to keep you around, then it could in theory be a fairly solid foundation for a relationship. At least, more solid than an outsider would think at a glance.

 

[TomInHo]

It sounds like maybe you subconsciously have it framed as chasing? I could see the argument that if your girl sees providing for you as a attainability equalizer + chasing you to keep you around, then it could in theory be a fairly solid foundation for a relationship. At least, more solid than an outsider would think at a glance.

Oh man its a lot trickier than you think. When a woman is investing that much into you she falls crazy in love, but the strange thing is that the deeper in love with you she falls, the less you tend to feel for her over time

You think you would like all that power but it's not a very good feeling in practice. But I might be bias because I can only speak from my experience and maybe you might like that... so try it out for yourself and see how it goes

Nowadays I prefer situations to be a bit more balanced

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

Oh man its a lot trickier than you think. When a woman is investing that much into you she falls crazy in love, but the strange thing is that the deeper in love with you she falls, the less you tend to feel for her over time

You think you would like all that power but it's not a very good feeling in practice. But I might be bias because I can only speak from my experience and maybe you might like that... so try it out for yourself and see how it goes

Passion Trap:

Relationship Control and Female Domination

Have you ever noticed that in almost every relationship… sooner or later, but often right from the start or at least very early… one of the two partners is more emotionally involved than the other? And that it's invariably the other of the two who retains the most relationship control? That one...

www.girlschase.com

 

[Kent]

Passion Trap:

Relationship Control and Female Domination

Have you ever noticed that in almost every relationship… sooner or later, but often right from the start or at least very early… one of the two partners is more emotionally involved than the other? And that it's invariably the other of the two who retains the most relationship control? That one...

www.girlschase.com

Very interesting article, especially the part about the relationships with women “one-ups” having more longevity. It reminds me of a female college friend who once told me she thinks relationships work better if the girl is more desirable to the guy than vice versa, and she still dates the same guy 10 years later. Most of my college female friends are “one-ups” with their husbands and boyfriends.

You mention nesting instinct and cultural conditioning as reasons a woman might stay in a relationship where she is the “one-up”, despite the proportional loss of the “out of control” emotional cocktail. I think disillusionment with past experiences as the “one-down” and desire for unquestionably secure companionship is another.

My college friend loves the guy she is still with, and seems happy to stay with him, although she has mentioned being sexually attracted to other men multiple times to me. I think this dynamic is a good-enough arrangement for people with her and her boyfriend’s temperament, even though it would be miserable for a more free-spirited, high sex drive man.

 

[Chase]

@Dough,

Wait a minute, are you hunting for virgins, or alpha female providers?

Did you not literally say in your previous post that

For me especially I want an old-fashioned alpha provider marriage

?

You just decided to switch to the total opposite end of the spectrum??

Anyway...

I have seen or heard of maybe 10-15 such relationships like the one you’re asking about now. They ALL have the same things in common:

• Wife is very high testosterone
• Wife has a high-flying, successful career that is super important to her
• Wife has a LOT of sex with power Chads she meets via work and business travel (both before and during marriage)
• Wife’s prioritization of her career makes it impossible for her to get along with even moderately career-ambitious men
• So wife prioritizes finding a safe, supportive husband who can be there for her when she comes home and cheer her on, rather than compete with her

They pretty much all meet one of two ways:

1. In college, and the wife’s career takes off after while the man’s languishes, but rather than break up they stay together, with the man shifting to the support role
   
   
2. Later in life, after the wife divorces an ex-husband who was too caught up with his own career and too demanding of her to conform to a normal wife role, leading to them clashing, leading her to decide she needs a more supportive man rather than an ambitious/successful one, even if she has to take care of most/all the provision

But yeah, these types of chicks are the complete opposites from virgins. They’re horny all the time, and have a lot of sex, with a lot of men, including presumably also their husbands when they get back home from getting pounded by chads.

Kind of a weird flip to go from “I want virgins to alpha-provide for” to “I want to be alpha-provided for by a woman.”

Whatever floats your boat, I guess???

Chase

 

[Chase]

@Skills,

I have been able to do this with every one of my mains since my teans... i teach how to do this here: http://www.theskillsmethod.com/hustle-game-forbidden-seduction-series/

I'm pretty sure @Dough's not talking about hustle game... I don't think he's in a place where he could even approach advanced levels of game.

It sounds like he's been going the Beautiful Ones route and is wondering if he can trade male beauty for female provision long-term. No mention of game of any sort in this post by him, and no indication in his other posts that he has much experience with game at all.

The impression I get is a guy trapped in theory-land who is not actually in-the-field at all, and is just doing a bunch of mental masturbation in his head.

Dough, correct me if I'm wrong about that, and you are actually in the field, meeting women, getting laid, and picking up real experience.

The big lesson here is, "Quit looking for magic pills and get in-field!"

Chase

 

[Skills]

@Skills,



I'm pretty sure @Dough's not talking about hustle game... I don't think he's in a place where he could even approach advanced levels of game.

It sounds like he's been going the Beautiful Ones route and is wondering if he can trade male beauty for female provision long-term. No mention of game of any sort in this post by him, and no indication in his other posts that he has much experience with game at all.

The impression I get is a guy trapped in theory-land who is not actually in-the-field at all, and is just doing a bunch of mental masturbation in his head.

Dough, correct me if I'm wrong about that, and you are actually in the field, meeting women, getting laid, and picking up real experience.

The big lesson here is, "Quit looking for magic pills and get in-field!"

Chase

oh i see beauty for provision, only works with women, yeah i just saw his archive, but good topic of discussion flipping the script is possible...

 

[Skills]

@Dough,

Wait a minute, are you hunting for virgins, or alpha female providers?

Did you not literally say in your previous post that



?

You just decided to switch to the total opposite end of the spectrum??

Anyway...

I have seen or heard of maybe 10-15 such relationships like the one you’re asking about now. They ALL have the same things in common:

• Wife is very high testosterone
• Wife has a high-flying, successful career that is super important to her
• Wife has a LOT of sex with power Chads she meets via work and business travel (both before and during marriage)
• Wife’s prioritization of her career makes it impossible for her to get along with even moderately career-ambitious men
• So wife prioritizes finding a safe, supportive husband who can be there for her when she comes home and cheer her on, rather than compete with her

They pretty much all meet one of two ways:

1. In college, and the wife’s career takes off after while the man’s languishes, but rather than break up they stay together, with the man shifting to the support role
   
   
2. Later in life, after the wife divorces an ex-husband who was too caught up with his own career and too demanding of her to conform to a normal wife role, leading to them clashing, leading her to decide she needs a more supportive man rather than an ambitious/successful one, even if she has to take care of most/all the provision

But yeah, these types of chicks are the complete opposites from virgins. They’re horny all the time, and have a lot of sex, with a lot of men, including presumably also their husbands when they get back home from getting pounded by chads.

Kind of a weird flip to go from “I want virgins to alpha-provide for” to “I want to be alpha-provided for by a woman.”

Whatever floats your boat, I guess???

Chase

chase those observations seems to be normal guys and marriages and the likes NO SEDUCERS, i seen this also when the 2 couple work but the wife makes way more money and the dude stays home with the kids....

With seduction you can engineer role reversal with pretty much any girls, obviously it can be easier with younger women more green, the reason is not common is cause they have no money, but is being done every day with naturals....

A lot of black guys are pretty good at this, but is something being done all over the place, most fuckboys will experience this at one point or another, i know from this forum alone me, @TomInHo and @topcat have experience this, also someone we agree not to mention on the forum that got banned hint razorjack, also experience some form of this(lazy charismatic Dutch bag)...

Anything can be reverse engineer, is not an appealing form of game, to many, as you can see by the responses, so is not discuss much in the community, (though the black players at times discuss this more), i learned from a black natural at young age maybe that is why after i was simping this may have cause a profound shock to my system....

I just seen through the years multiple gurus discuss a weird angle, which annoys me (black dragon for example), cause again they are talking either or normal guys or observations (not of seducers but normal dudes).... Again with game and i will throw sales in the mix there are strategies and reverse engineering that can be apply to pretty much every girl and every demographic..... So how the community works we all see replicable patterns, we try them and we go oh shit! this works, and then we try on different women, if the girl is invested in should work if done correctly in a majority of women..... It is not something to strive or want to replicate, but some guys like me are like dude i spent years and years on gaming, neglected a bunch of shit for nothing, let me get something out of this.... (i personally don't recommend this as per the article)... There are times i get onitis, i get pumped up about getting money, get the onitis, do this shit, my motivation goes to shit... (rinse wash repeat)....

is not rocket science you ramp on compliant slowly>becomes a habit> then is normalized>good sex and having pool of competing women they want you win you over....

I also don't do "tinder swindler" game as per @TomInHo but there are some aspects we do:

Present High Value
- Get small compliance
- Ramp compliance
- Display vulnerability or misfortune
- Gain massive investment

I don't do the misfortune ask to borrow and pay back.... The exchange is sex or access to me and my time... Again, my point is the dynamic can be reverse engineer with EVERY WOMAN....

Also in Japan, there are dudes in bars that get paid for hanging with women, and also a strippers get groupies as well sometimes that want to hook up (fall into this frame then they fall)..... Also in latin america there are European women that fall for locals, same stuff.... I was going to throw in some jail guys that get women sending them money commissary is called....

 

[Chase]

@Skills,

I’m willing to believe! Just haven’t seen it that much. What are the conditions for it?

e.g., I have seen the 50+ European/American white women coming back with a sexy young black guy from Africa or the Caribbean (they were also doing it with the refugees that flooded into Europe), where the guy doesn’t work at all and the woman just sends him money and eventually marries him and moves him into her home.

There are documentaries on some of these guys IIRC, where they are talking about how they get these women to come down to visit them, seduce them, then have the woman sending them all this money once they get back home… the really good ones have multiple women sending them money… it’s basically the same thing as the old white dudes who travel to Thailand and the Philippines and end up sending these chicks money not to hook, meanwhile the chick has 4 such dudes sending her money + a local boyfriend (or and is still hooking, lol).

So it usually seems like in that case it is older, wealthier woman past her child-bearing years who wants to feel fun and sexy again and doesn’t mind paying for a young buck who will shag her silly even if the guy lacks money.

I knew a homeless seducer who was about 40 and always bragged about never having held a job in his life (he dealt drugs, though) who was always moving from girl’s to girl’s place, targeting professional women… but they would get tired of him mooching after a while and kick him out and he’d have to pick up new chicks to crash with. In his case he was a really good-looking guy according to some mutual friends (I can’t tell men’s looks) plus he had very smooth game, so kind of what Dough was talking about here, trading looks for provision… though in his case his game was also very tight.

A lot of black guys are pretty good at this, but is something being done all over the place, most fuckboys will experience this at one point or another, i know from this forum alone me, @TomInHo and @topcat have experience this, also someone we agree not to mention on the forum that got banned hint razorjack, also experience some form of this(lazy charismatic Dutch bag)...

Oh okay, you’re talking more shorter term, as in over a few years max then, right?

I was under the impression Dough was talking about a forever marriage where he brings the looks and the chick brings the bacon. Like 10, 20, 30 years. I pretty much never see that unless it’s the sort I talked about in my post, where the guy is in the support/nest role, or there’s a major age gap where the woman is much older and is willing to bring the bacon in exchange for a much younger beau.

If you’re just talking about six months or a year or two years, then sure, I’ve had that too. I had a broke & unemployed stretch where women were trying to marry me, telling me they were happy to support me and pay for things till I was back on my feet, etc. The assumption seemed to be that sooner or later I would get my act together… maybe in theory I could’ve stretched that out forever but speculating beyond that would just be speculation… in any event you need some pretty solid game to pull that off, which I do not think Dough is currently rocking…

Chase

 

[Skills]

@Skills,

I’m willing to believe! Just haven’t seen it that much. What are the conditions for it?

e.g., I have seen the 50+ European/American white women coming back with a sexy young black guy from Africa or the Caribbean (they were also doing it with the refugees that flooded into Europe), where the guy doesn’t work at all and the woman just sends him money and eventually marries him and moves him into her home.

There are documentaries on some of these guys IIRC, where they are talking about how they get these women to come down to visit them, seduce them, then have the woman sending them all this money once they get back home… the really good ones have multiple women sending them money… it’s basically the same thing as the old white dudes who travel to Thailand and the Philippines and end up sending these chicks money not to hook, meanwhile the chick has 4 such dudes sending her money + a local boyfriend (or and is still hooking, lol).

So it usually seems like in that case it is older, wealthier woman past her child-bearing years who wants to feel fun and sexy again and doesn’t mind paying for a young buck who will shag her silly even if the guy lacks money.

I knew a homeless seducer who was about 40 and always bragged about never having held a job in his life (he dealt drugs, though) who was always moving from girl’s to girl’s place, targeting professional women… but they would get tired of him mooching after a while and kick him out and he’d have to pick up new chicks to crash with. In his case he was a really good-looking guy according to some mutual friends (I can’t tell men’s looks) plus he had very smooth game, so kind of what Dough was talking about here, trading looks for provision… though in his case his game was also very tight.



Oh okay, you’re talking more shorter term, as in over a few years max then, right?

I was under the impression Dough was talking about a forever marriage where he brings the looks and the chick brings the bacon. Like 10, 20, 30 years. I pretty much never see that unless it’s the sort I talked about in my post, where the guy is in the support/nest role, or there’s a major age gap where the woman is much older and is willing to bring the bacon in exchange for a much younger beau.

If you’re just talking about six months or a year or two years, then sure, I’ve had that too. I had a broke & unemployed stretch where women were trying to marry me, telling me they were happy to support me and pay for things till I was back on my feet, etc. The assumption seemed to be that sooner or later I would get my act together… maybe in theory I could’ve stretched that out forever but speculating beyond that would just be speculation… in any event you need some pretty solid game to pull that off, which I do not think Dough is currently rocking…

Chase

chase i edited the post mention the caribean stuff, i will make a post on members/private for obvious reasons...lol but if you have a chicken that gives you golden eggs and you kills the chicken, then you are fucked.... The dude did not make it work long term he squeeze too much, till she got fed up.... but yeah you can do long term i will make a post eventually in private...(again not for everyone)

p.s. never mind @Chase is right few years, no long term forever stuff...

 

[topcat]

• Wife is very high testosterone
• Wife has a high-flying, successful career that is super important to her
• Wife has a LOT of sex with power Chads she meets via work and business travel (both before and during marriage)
• Wife’s prioritization of her career makes it impossible for her to get along with even moderately career-ambitious men
• So wife prioritizes finding a safe, supportive husband who can be there for her when she comes home and cheer her on, rather than compete with her

Fascinating conversation.

I’m curious, what are the “tells” for such high testosterone women out in the field, versus say regular women. What characteristics immediately identify them?

 

[mist]

Fascinating conversation.

I’m curious, what are the “tells” for such high testosterone women out in the field, versus say regular women. What characteristics immediately identify them?

1. on testy women

my own experience was they had horrible acne, more body and some facial hair, less curvy, and occasionally I had the thought "she'd be a great lesbian"

Imo I have not run into women with high test who are attractive...they literally are like dudes with vaginas.

Chicks who have a lil more test have had muted or boosted feminine nonverbals ime but are more attractive than high test women as have extra aint the same as ms hairy sheman

The dude did not make it work long term he squeeze too much, till she got fed up.... but yeah you can do long term i will make a post eventually in private...(again not for everyone)

I’m willing to believe! Just haven’t seen it that much. What are the conditions for it?

2. I have however met a career woman who sorta layed it out on the table during our date about her goal to become a lawyer and have a house husband.

She was young, but reminded me of "single" milfs if you know the dynamic as a young man.

is a pretty interesting thread reflecting on all these and actually direct relation to @Skills states

i have plenty of deadbeat family men or aquaintances I know of who have wives for long periods while they scoundrel and she pays for them and nearly everything...big thing to note is these women get knocked up by these men...i wouldn't also consider them the highest value, but when push comes to shove they are always going back to these

probably ties into dark arts, knocking her up, and something else (maybe moving a lot), isolating her

Sorta reminds me of Chase's concubine thing where eventually she'll leave when familial and social pressure wears down her resolve

either these men had her in environments where it was the norm or they moved before as things got shakey.

I find it frankly funny i picked this up, but yes

these relationships were long

they are very possible

Not a discussed part of society though

feel free to delete this post if it is too on the edge and a hazard

I will state I am not recommending this course of action merely showcasing i have seen it and these men are very much well and fed

at the end of the day men and women choose their relationships

they deserve eachother and if they are drowning together they have chosen to do so.

relationships are only "accidental" to the irresponsible

 

[Train]

But yeah, these types of chicks are the complete opposites from virgins. They’re horny all the time, and have a lot of sex, with a lot of men, including presumably also their husbands when they get back home from getting pounded by chads.

Do these high-T, career-power women have much respect for their supportive non-Chad husbands? I saw one case where the couple switched traditional gender roles like this but the wife seemed annoyed with the husband and even negged him in public a couple of times.