@nolimits,
@Chase
Would you say the same holds true when the goal is being one of a group’s most respected characters ?
I would say to being one of the group's most
active and
top-of-mind characters. Respected is a bit different.
e.g., you're in a big group with a really cool, powerfully built ex-football player who always has a hot girl with him but doesn't socialize much and is a bit on the quiet side. He's not totally standoffish; you've chatted with him a few times and he has a good sense of humor. But all-in-all you feel a little intimidated by him, as do most of the folks in the group. Meanwhile, there's another guy in the group who talks all the time, who is constantly telling stories and joking around. Sometimes he can honestly be a bit much, but he always makes people feel included.
Who's more
respected, vs. who do you feel more comfortable talking to, approaching, and hitting up over text to invite to parties?
That's not to say a talkative guy can't also be one of the more respected members there. Though in my experience the most talkative guy is rarely the alpha of the group. Talkative people are usually too busy being butterflies to be managing / maintaining a group, except under certain circumstances (e.g., talkative guy is a teacher-leader, leading a group of students... talkative guy is the boss... talkative guy has surrounded himself with fans / kiss-ups... etc.).
Also , about all this big discussion we had on the forum of street stops not being worth it unless you’re advanced etc.. what’s your take ?
I would say... depends how we're defining 'street stop'.
If we just mean the full frontal policeman stop, I did not attempt that one many times until I was already advanced, and I've never had beginner or intermediate students do it. Instinctively it feels like something less experienced guys should be avoid, unless they're naturally very confident guys who think they can pull it off, then maybe. But not having the experience doing them when less experienced, or throwing students into that fire, I'm speculating.
If we mean approaching girls walking on the street by coming in from the side or a slightly less "full blast" angle, in my experience beginners struggle with these, but they work fine for intermediates.
So if you want my advice:
- Beginners should focus on stationary women
- Intermediates can start working in approaching from angles
- Advanced guys can do the really ballsy in-her-face approaches and still pull them off
But, as always, experiment, especially if you're curious about a thing. Maybe you'll find you can make it work!
I’ve started to worry about having a good meet to lay ratio lately and have stopped approaching… but I feel worrying about the ratio is not useful once your ratio is of course good.
like if you need to talk to 100 girls on the streets in order to fuck 3 of them.. yeah worry about the ratio.
But to me worrying about the ratio limits your overall lay quantity and as a consequence quality as well.
To end this discussion…
What’s a good ratio to strive for in day game provided you go for girls you really like ?
is 1:12/17 a good one and past which point should you worry about it ?
I think we should never forget that rejection and failure is often the price for greatness
I think it's a lot more helpful while learning to set yourself lay count goals instead of meet-to-lay goals. Meet-to-lay ratio is a useful tool for figuring out where you're at and how much room you have to tweak your approach, but it's also highly dependent upon the kind of approaches you're doing, where you're doing them, what kind of girls you're going for, how you are targeting and how good your targeting is (a very skilled guy will notice all kinds of "I'm open to meeting someone" signals a woman is putting out that lower level guys will not notice at all... he will also notice "do not talk to me" signals lower level guys will not notice or barrel past).
A lay count goal is "I'm going to lay one new girl per calendar month" or "Two new girls per calendar month" or "One new girl per calendar week" for N months (or maybe for the rest of the year). You will do as many approaches as you need to to get there. You can use meet-to-lay to diagnose whether your approaching could be more efficient, and zero in on better styles and venues for you (e.g., maybe you're 0-for-73 at Club X, but you're 2-for-17 at Bar Y, over the same period. Bar Y is obviously a much better venue for you, and you should look for more venues like that, and probably avoid those like Club X).
So: lay count as your goal to aim for, meet-to-lay ratio as your tool to refine.
1:12 or 1:17 sounds fine. I know guys are talking about 1:5 or 1:3 but these are very advanced guys with dialed-in game who know their venues, know women's body language very well, and don't make many mistakes (the 1:3 ratio is also being discussed as happening on runs).
@PaulieFlyn10,
Excellent analysis Chase... I know you love to give movie and TV personality examples
Anyone you think would be a great person to study regarding how to talk more in a way girls enjoy?
I guess the problem with movies is they're made for entertainment rather than education. So you will see juicy bits of dialogue but you don't often get to see the whole pickup.
There was a pretty good extended pickup in the post-apocalyptic movie
Hostile (of all things). I was pretty surprised they had that in there, I was just expecting some shoot-em-up desert monster survival action. Hot girl walks into art gallery owner's gallery, and art gallery owner decides he wants her, overcomes a bunch of her resistance, and pulls her home. Then he botches the escalation back at his place... it's all really well done.
I'm a big fan of Val Kilmer's turn in
The Saint. There's a lot of dialogue in there, especially in the second pickup. I modeled a lot of my early style off that role.
There's a lot of good seduction dialogue in
Vicki Cristina Barcelona. A lot of Woody Allen movies, in general, feature good dialogue / pickups.
Then there's
The Moon Is Blue, which was basically a two-hour-long pickup. That's great as well, with a lot of banter and overcoming resistance in it.
Also, the German film
Victoria (2015). That's a good extended pickup/seduction movie with a lot of solid dialogue in it.
Any of those should get you going!
Chase