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Is It Wrong To Be Picky?

TheWiseFool

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Oct 28, 2013
Messages
290
I've been having trouble lately approaching women who shows signs of interest simply because I am really picky. So much so that it is really irritating me. I've recalle a number of times when friends would ask for my opinion about particular women, based solely on looks, and they'd be surprised at my words of labeling them as "certainly beautiful but not my taste". And when asked, "what kind of woman do you like?" I would respond, "I don't know really. I just know when I see them." More often than not, when I do meet such women I am much more interested in them because I WANT to get to know them. Now Chase says we need to lower our standards IF we want to build experience. Ricardus in one article said to approach YOUR kind of women in the sense that if you get good at getting to know "regular" women, you won't have any experience when it comes to "upper tier" women. For me I took it as, approach the kind of women you like and build reference experiences off them rather than building reference experiences with women who you know you have minimal interest in. I know all women are great, they are human, and once you get to know them, you'll love em. I don't know if I am being superficial or I am making things fucking hard for myself cos I'm bottlenecking the types of experiences I can collect.

- The Wise Fool
 
you miss 100% of the shots you don't take

mountaingoat

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Messages
23
My pickiness and hesitance has possibly cost me twice in the past two months. One girl, I wasnt sure if I wanted her, so I took my time, she gave me a lot of chances, but I didnt really try to take it anywhere until it was too late. Another girl, she had a great body and most of her face was fine, and she was nice to me when I met her, but one thing about her was a huge turnoff. Not enough to say no in abstract, but it made me hesitant, I didnt act on what might have been her interest, and I completely regret it. It doesnt dog at me, but I curse myself every now and then about it haha. But next time, I know better.

It depends on how you want to approach all of this. If you are ok with potentially spontaneous interaction, then loosen your standards and take what you can. One night together isnt an obligation for a whole relationship. If you are uncomfortable about "sleeping around", then loosen up a bit, but still maintain some standards. I dont agree with the hyperpolyamory frequently promoted here, but there are great tips to take. I think Chase et al want to jog our thinking by advocating something extreme, so we compromise and that gets us what we want and gets us out of whatever slump of thinking we are in. :)
 

Franco

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Messages
3,637
TWF,

I would take Chase's advice here until you're reasonably experienced taking women to bed with you (perhaps somewhere in the range of 8-10 different women). It's much more important that you get experience learning how to take women to bed with you more than anything else when you're first starting out because, the moral of the story is, you won't have enough experience to properly seduce the women that ARE your type when it comes time to do it if you haven't done it before.

Now, as Chase recommends on his article about lowering your standards, it doesn't mean you have to take "hideous, desperate" women to bed with you (and I advise that you don't if not only for the reason that they don't shit test you enough for you to gain a lot of knowledge), but you should be taking opportunities with girls that are at least "cute" in one way or another.

Once you get reasonable experience with getting girls to comply with your requests and come home and have sex with you, then you can start to take Ricardus's advice and start approaching women who are your type. You'll have learned by then not only how to take a woman to bed from a cold approach but you'll have also learned the fact that the process with more attractive girls is exactly the same as with less attractive girls. They are still girls, and they want you to be confident and in control. This might sound like something you already know, but I've seen plenty of guys try to change their process because they perceive a particular girl to be "different" from the other ones. So it's important to keep in mind that all girls are just girls -- no exceptions.

So being picky is only effective if you're able to get results when you're not being picky. But if you're still a virgin or have a low lay count, and you're trying to be picky about which girls you approach, then you're never going to make any progress because you won't know how to effectively move things forward with these girls when you finally do get a chance to see and approach them.

Focus on making your seductions mechanical and smooth, and then you can focus on only approaching women that pique your interest in all facets that you're looking for.

- Franco
 

TheWiseFool

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Oct 28, 2013
Messages
290
Thanks guys for taking the time to answer my topic. I'm slowly pushing myself over the edge before I take the plunge. It's becoming instinctual for me to give a girl my own sign of interest when she checks me out and then she'll give me an approach invitation, WHICH leads to me freaking out and not doing anything cos in my head I'm thinking, "Why did I do that?!" which is why I've been getting annoyed at myself and had to ask the community. I just gotta open my mouth and then I'll be good. Anyways...

mountaingoat,

I dont agree with the hyperpolyamory frequently promoted here, but there are great tips to take.

Not for me either cos I struggle with Biblical teachings and what is taught at Girls Chase haha. Regardless, I don't judge and Ricardus certainly gives great tips. You can feel from his writing how "simple" things seem for him, which certainly helps when one is reading, but when the moment actually matters, I'm s.o.l. for freezing up constantly.

I think Chase et al want to jog our thinking by advocating something extreme, so we compromise and that gets us what we want and gets us out of whatever slump of thinking we are in.

Really is true. I know it is on me to make the DECISION to compromise. I'm currently trying to frame my mind into "the first time doesn't matter" in order that I am less picky.

Thanks for the advice brother


Franco,

the process with more attractive girls is exactly the same as with less attractive girls. They are still girls, and they want you to be confident and in control. This might sound like something you already know, but I've seen plenty of guys try to change their process because they perceive a particular girl to be "different" from the other ones. So it's important to keep in mind that all girls are just girls -- no exceptions.

I keep psyching myself out when a girl invites me to approach her or is giving me an IOI(s), especially when she is taller than me or 1 or 2 years older than me... omg this hb9 brunette, who I believe in grad school, at the place I go for tutoring I want to approach so bad cos I'm getting a "feeling" / vibe from her, but I keep thinging, "No way man... look at her... physical beauty and her own fundamentals are down." In the past or these days, do you wait for an IOI or approach invitation from women before approaching or do you just open her and steer her towards your goal?

I already have my process down (It's this crazy flow chart, wish I could post it on here), but I've been waiting and reading for so long that I need to memorize it again. I forgot how Chase stressed the importance of having a process in his ebook, I need to read the notes I took on that again.

It's much more important that you get experience learning how to take women to bed with you more than anything else when you're first starting out
...
But if you're still a virgin or have a low lay count, and you're trying to be picky about which girls you approach, then you're never going to make any progress because you won't know how to effectively move things forward with these girls when you finally do get a chance to see and approach them.

I know the obvious answer is that I just gotta man up and approach. I am still dealing with approach anxiety despite the number of times I've read Chase's articles regarding anxiety and mindsets. I probably just need to do a quick pre-selection with women who are not within my target range to get myself warmed up, to remind myself, "Look, you're talking to just another girl. See, it's not hat hard." On Saturday, I accidentally figured out how effective pre-selection, when it is available for one to do so, is in one's process of attracting women. It built up a bit of confidence in me and I could that I piqued the attention of this really cute blonde that was in close enough proximity to see that this girl was interested in me, even though I was just asking what perfume she wore. In addition, do you think it would be beneficial, for my purpose of overcoming approach anxiety, to be approaching and talking to women normally WITHOUT the attention of bedding them. I do that just fine, but my ability to socialize with women breaks down as soon as I put the objective of "Sex" on it. As you said in another post of mine, it is probably due to my upbringing.

All in all, thanks guys. Your words were very much needed.
- TWF
 

Franco

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Messages
3,637
In the past or these days, do you wait for an IOI or approach invitation from women before approaching or do you just open her and steer her towards your goal?

I do, but probably not always in the way that you are thinking. Remember, just because a girl hasn't seen you yet doesn't mean that she isn't interested in being approached. When it comes to bars and nightclubs especially, there are so many guys around that a girl can't really just be "looking" at each guy to see if she gets signals from him. She may find multiple guys in there attractive, but she's only going to be interested in the ones who have the balls to approach her. So instead of eyeballing every guy around her, she'll put herself in positions to be approached.

Rather than waiting for a girl to "notice me" (although it does happen, and I especially make sure to make my move if it does), I'll hover around the bar or a central area where I can get a good view of all the women around me. From there, I look for "approach invitations." These are not IOIs but rather indicators of wanting to be approached without direct interest in any one guy. I would go through these, but Chase already has a fantastic article about different approach invitations to look for that you should read through first:

7 Approach Invitations You'll Get From Girls

In addition, do you think it would be beneficial, for my purpose of overcoming approach anxiety, to be approaching and talking to women normally WITHOUT the attention of bedding them?

If you're having trouble approaching women in general, then sure, it can be helpful to take pieces out of the equation that complicate the process until you feel comfortable with the approach in general. If you want, you can try approaching 20-30 women and just start a conversation until you feel comfortable doing that. Then, once you're comfortable, you can try throwing in some compliments and getting used to what it feels like to show genuine interest in a woman. I used to try to avoid showing interest as well since it made me nervous, but the first few times I finally tried directly complimenting a girl I was surprised at how good the results were, so I saw no reason to go backwards. But do what works best for you. =)

- Franco
 

mountaingoat

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Messages
23
I also struggle a bit with religious views and my own personal outlook. A female friend once told me she thought I was the type to wait until marriage. I cant say Ive ever had that opinion in my life, but I also have always been a bit of a moralist. I am not totally familiar with all of the Bible, especially less the Gospels, but from what I have read, premarital sex is not prohibited, but is discouraged. The issue is people back then married at 16, so it was easy to get married before sex. Now, with people getting married much much later and their bodies urging them on, its very hard. The conclusion I have drawn is that unless you are in a religious community, the vast majority of women will have and expect you to have premarital sex. But as Franco said in different words, you cant know how you feel until you try. Answer a simple question: are you ok with having sex?

It took me sooooooooo long to figure this all out and I think I have got it now. From tips here and from friends, I think I know what to do. I still seem to mess up every now and then (which is more significant because Im just not going to do the PUA thing). But it takes practice. I think its really just a simple strategy: watch for women to show interest and if so, escalate ASAP...or find one that interests you somewhat, dont get too deep or emotional until after youve had sex once or twice. By not falling in love, you inoculate yourself against heartbreak and rejection. Ive just about mastered this and recently got over a girl in two hours, literally. The previous one took 36! And longer before that. Trust me. It has worked wonders the past few months I have been not getting to deep. Again, all this goes back to that one question. If youve answered yes, its easy.

The key is to escalate. One thing I learned this year from a female friend (Ill get back to this next paragraph) is the importance of kissing. And that is, its not very important at all! This makes no sense of course, but what I mean is that you have to stop thinking of kisses as significant...but they do very clearly indicate what road you want to go down with a girl. I am pretty certain that I missed out on two girls this year because I did not kiss them when they gave me a chance. It wouldve been somewhat of a surprise (maybe they were thinking it might happen) aaaaaand because I didnt do it, they friendzoned. There are great articles on the site about how to kiss, but I think the best way to approach this is to very lightly make contact and then pull away (after other physical escalation, or if you find the right moment). If she agrees, youll get a clear response. If not, oh well, you still got a kiss. Have a nice walk or drive home. :)

Finally! And this is how I realized how awesome I am (and you should think you are awesome too): you need to have girls who are friends, and really good close friends. I saw there was an article about how to get women as friends here and actually did not read it because I already have a lot and that is one thing I dont need help with. But it occurred to me that some, or maybe many guys DONT have a lot of female friends. I discovered that I am REALLY good at making women into friends, but keep getting friendzoned. I could list off a lot of girls I can hang out with and have been friends with. I think it is VERY important to have girl friends for a few reasons:
1. You can go to them for advice. They know how they work better than men know. They may give bad advice and 10 girls will give 11 opinions, but it will get you thinking and you will know what feels right. A girl friend, as I said above told me how important kissing and having sex are, which is exactly what Chase et al say.
2. You can see things from their perspective. THIS is really valuable. For a long time I couldnt conceive of women being attracted to men. With all my past "failures", I thought that sometimes it just happened and men somehow got lucky. But listening to multiple girl friends talk about guys they are interested in and trying so hard to pursue and win over, I was amazed. If anything it gives you hope and you realize there is some girl out there who thought or will think that way about you.
3. You can get over your fears a lot easier and get used to talking to girls in abstract. I used to have trouble talking to anyone, but especially girls. It took a lot of practice, but now I am pretty good at it. I still freeze up sometimes, but I know when I do and try to break it.
4. With female friends, you feel abundant and wont get too attached too early. You always know you have your core ladies. You may not sleep with them ever, but they are always down for a movie or a concert or whatever.
5. Things happen. They say its hard or impossible to break the friendzone, but its not. The only important thing is to not plan on breaking it. Youll get in to deep and risk a painful rejection or loss of a friendship. But you never know what can happen. A girl you have known for months or years, one night you are watching a movie and the next thing you remember is finishing up and pulling away from her. Thats why I dont buy too much into the attraction expiration thing (but the caveat is dont hope). Attraction can suddenly appear. I have seen it happen to me, to girls directed at me, and from girl friends who suddenly became interested in a guy awhile after meeting them. One girl knew me for a year and was regularly seeing me around multiple times a week. You would think attraction would have expired by then, but that is when it first really began.

Also, if you dont have a job and can get one, that is really the first step to take. Having a job, even if it sucks, WILL boost your mood, which makes you more confident and attractive and also the abstract idea of (hello!) having income is attractive.
 
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