Is "PUA/chest out" posture unnatural and unhealthy?

[lux7]

With the stressing of "chest out", it seems to me that a common tendency of misinterpretation would be to actually push the chest actually too out which in turn can either:

1.
send the hip too far back, like in the second case in the first picture below (lumbar lordosis),

2.
or by trying to correct the hip too strongly cock it way too in, like in the third case of the second picture (military back), which at my current understanding seems to be a common hyper correction mistake and also (wrongly?) recommended by some experts like in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MIZ6Fl2 ... W&index=11

Thoughts/Ideas?

 

[Big Daddy]

If you don't ever play sports (or even if you do) or workout frequently with picture perfect form, and are seating or lying into something all day long (if you use a computer a lot, are a student, have a desk job or any other kind of job that requires you to remain seated several hours s a day), I bet there is a 95% chance that you have more than one of these postural problems.

These happen because as you don't use your glutes muscles when seated so they become tense and weak as f*ck and on the rare minutes you stand up and walk, and you can't activate them properly. This also happens due to anterior core dysfunction (they are responsible for keeping you erect when you stand).

I had excessive anterior pelvic tilt (described as lumbar lordosis in your post) and forward head, because I didn't really worked out before (started going regularly to the gym in early last year) and I seated all day. After the first 15 or so pounds of muscle came by, 50% of my postural problems vanished. Notably, the "chest out" thing. A good cue to achieving good upper back posture is imaging a hook grabbing you by your sternum and pushing you upwards and slightly forward. It became very easy to maintain.

The lordosis is 60% gone, but is still a work in progress. You CAN hold your hips under your back for a brief period of time, but you'll never make lasting progress if you still seat all day and don't stretch your hips everyday, perform glute activation drills and posterior muscle work on the gym, as well as abdominal work.

Neck stretching and having your computer screen at eyes level and not curling over the paper when you write is probably the easiest one to solve.

The perfect human posture would be the one that is pain-free. You see, your body tells you something is wrong with the way you're walking. It may as well be the case that after years it doesn't bother you anymore, but if you REALLY pay close attention to it, you'll notice it. My low back hurt all the time when walking and my upper back when typing or writing, just as my elbows.

So, to see how it should look like, do this: stand on your side by a mirror with feet pointed exactly forward. Then lock your legs straight up and thrust your hips forward until they're exactly aligned with your core, if you have low bodyfat percentage (if that is not your case, pay close attention to stop when they're UNDER you), without moving your legs. If you're not used to it, you should feel your abs, hamstrings and glutes working to maintain that position. Now roll your shoulders back, while naturally pushing your chest upwards and slightly forward using that hook cue.

 

[Ryan]

If you don't ever play sports (or even if you do) or workout frequently with picture perfect form, and are seating or lying into something all day long (if you use a computer a lot, are a student, have a desk job or any other kind of job that requires you to remain seated several hours s a day), I bet there is a 95% chance that you have more than one of these postural problems.

These happen because as you don't use your glutes muscles when seated so they become tense and weak as f*ck and on the rare minutes you stand up and walk, and you can't activate them properly. This also happens due to anterior core dysfunction (they are responsible for keeping you erect when you stand).

I had excessive anterior pelvic tilt (described as lumbar lordosis in your post) and forward head, because I didn't really worked out before (started going regularly to the gym in early last year) and I seated all day. After the first 15 or so pounds of muscle came by, 50% of my postural problems vanished. Notably, the "chest out" thing. A good cue to achieving good upper back posture is imaging a hook grabbing you by your sternum and pushing you upwards and slightly forward. It became very easy to maintain.

The lordosis is 60% gone, but is still a work in progress. You CAN hold your hips under your back for a brief period of time, but you'll never make lasting progress if you still seat all day and don't stretch your hips everyday, perform glute activation drills and posterior muscle work on the gym, as well as abdominal work.

Neck stretching and having your computer screen at eyes level and not curling over the paper when you write is probably the easiest one to solve.

The perfect human posture would be the one that is pain-free. You see, your body tells you something is wrong with the way you're walking. It may as well be the case that after years it doesn't bother you anymore, but if you REALLY pay close attention to it, you'll notice it. My low back hurt all the time when walking and my upper back when typing or writing, just as my elbows.

So, to see how it should look like, do this: stand on your side by a mirror with feet pointed exactly forward. Then lock your legs straight up and thrust your hips forward until they're exactly aligned with your core, if you have low bodyfat percentage (if that is not your case, pay close attention to stop when they're UNDER you), without moving your legs. If you're not used to it, you should feel your abs, hamstrings and glutes working to maintain that position. Now roll your shoulders back, while naturally pushing your chest upwards and slightly forward using that hook cue.

Excellent response. I realised i'm beginning to get posture problems, and this thread is a big help. Thanks.

 

[lux7]

So, to see how it should look like, do this: stand on your side by a mirror with feet pointed exactly forward. Then lock your legs straight up and thrust your hips forward until they're exactly aligned with your core, if you have low bodyfat percentage (if that is not your case, pay close attention to stop when they're UNDER you), without moving your legs. If you're not used to it, you should feel your abs, hamstrings and glutes working to maintain that position. Now roll your shoulders back, while naturally pushing your chest upwards and slightly forward using that hook cue.

Big Daddy, if you do align the hips "exactly" with your core it means you are making your back too flat, which is also a mistake as shown in picture 4 "flat back", there should be a bit of a curve there, so I think they shouldn't be "exactly" aligned but a bit protruding backward.. ?

 

[Big Daddy]

Thanks, Ryan. Glad I could help.

I didn't know any cues to help with hip positioning, so I knew it might get confusing.

I have a very low bodyfat percentage myself and my stomach is literally flat, so it's very easy for me, by looking at the mirror, to find that spot visually. If, on the other hand, that's not your case, you should not focus on what you see, but rather on feeling of how the bones of your spine / hips are (which should be neutral). So the hip BONES should be under you, and thus, in their natural position if one had developed enough muscles to maintain that position. Again, you will only be able to see this if you have single-digit bodyfat percentage.

You can see that in the "flat back" image, the hips are thrust way too forward. You'll feel that your hips are forward even if you close your eyes. Save that position for sex, and maintain a neutral one when standing up

 

[lux7]

Thanks, Ryan. Glad I could help.

I didn't know any cues to help with hip positioning, so I knew it might get confusing.

I have a very low bodyfat percentage myself and my stomach is literally flat, so it's very easy for me, by looking at the mirror, to find that spot visually. If, on the other hand, that's not your case, you should not focus on what you see, but rather on feeling of how the bones of your spine / hips are (which should be neutral).

You can see that in the "flat back" image, the hips are thrust way too forward. You'll feel that your hips are forward even if you close your eyes. Save that position for sex, and maintain a neutral one when standing up

Same here with the flat stomach .

I agree with you it can be quite a bit confusing, especially if you've never had proper posture as in my case.
I still think you should have a curve above your butt and that it's easy to overdo it with the flattening.

I will later take a pic of myself, cut the head (of the pic ) and post it, maybe that will help and we'll see if we mean the same thing

 

[lux7]

This is neutral (legs a bit too forward maybe):


And this, with the hips completely below the torso, would be too flat as there's no natural curve at all:

 

[Big Daddy]

Yep, it's more like the first pic, but I can tell that your center of gravity is off, as evidenced by your legs going too forward and your shoulder rolled way back, which means your hips aren't exactly positioned as they should be.

If you never did hip stretches, it may be very, and I mean very difficult to thrust just your hips while maintaining the legs locked. We're talking a couple months here.

And remember, your focus should be on chest UP, not chest out. Given that your hips are in the correct position, you should aim to separate as much as possible your sternum from your hips. Imagine the hook grabbing under the bone on the middle of your chest/rib cage (that's the sternum). By doing so, the back of your shoulders should come slightly down.

Imagine that you are holding a very, very heavy metal broomstick with both hands by your waist, and you HAD to maintain proper posture. Even if you aren't able to bring the broomstick any higher, you'd still make an effort to do so just because you're holding it. But I want you to forget your arm, and focus on pushing that stick with your torso instead.

Here's a pic to help you: http://www.shape.com/sites/shape.com/fi ... lift-1.jpg

 

[Ryan]

What do you think of the fishhook technique, big daddy?

Will try what you suggested and report back later (if i remember to)

 

[lux7]

Yep, it's more like the first pic, but I can tell that your center of gravity is off, as evidenced by your legs going too forward and your shoulder rolled way back, which means your hips aren't exactly positioned as they should be.

If you never did hip stretches, it may be very, and I mean very difficult to thrust just your hips while maintaining the legs locked. We're talking a couple months here.

And remember, your focus should be on chest UP, not chest out. Given that your hips are in the correct position, you should aim to separate as much as possible your sternum from your hips. Imagine the hook grabbing under the bone on the middle of your chest/rib cage (that's the sternum). By doing so, the back of your shoulders should come slightly down.

Imagine that you are holding a very, very heavy metal broomstick with both hands by your waist, and you HAD to maintain proper posture. Even if you aren't able to bring the broomstick any higher, you'd still make an effort to do so just because you're holding it. But I want you to forget your arm, and focus on pushing that stick with your torso instead.

Here's a pic to help you: http://www.shape.com/sites/shape.com/fi ... lift-1.jpg

Yep you're right, gravity center is something I've been concentrating on only recently, not even the first picture is my natural position, I have to keep in mind to push my hip.

Wold you have any suggestion on exercises for hip stretches?

 

[Big Daddy]

What do you think of the fishhook technique, big daddy?

Will try what you suggested and report back later (if i remember to)

Yeah, I think it's the same one I described early. It works fine too, I used it myself at first, but nowadays I prefer the "ghost deadlift" because I'm more used to. It comes down to personal preference.

As for hip stretches, these are my favorites for beginners by far: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3NbL9DYqDY

Go for maximum hold for each side twice/day (at the middle and at the end of the day).

 

[lux7]

What do you think of the fishhook technique, big daddy?

Will try what you suggested and report back later (if i remember to)

Yeah, I think it's the same one I described early. It works fine too, I used it myself at first, but nowadays I prefer the "ghost deadlift" because I'm more used to. It comes down to personal preference.

As for hip stretches, these are my favorites for beginners by far: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3NbL9DYqDY

Go for maximum hold for each side twice/day (at the middle and at the end of the day).

Thanks man!

You're doing something more advanced at the moment?

 

[Big Daddy]

This was all I did for months. I'd search for hip stretches on the internet, but the basics are my favorites even up to this very day.

 

[lux7]

This was all I did for months. I'd search for hip stretches on the internet, but the basics are my favorites even up to this very day.

Thanks man!!