FU Jeet Most recent FU

[Jeet02]

I am new in town, so a friends of mine and myself decided to join a kickball league to meet new people. There I met this girl that we will call Yoga Pants (cause yes, she was wearing yoga pants...and yes...she looked GOOD in them). I talked to her a few times during game nights, but nothing too fancy. Just talks here and there. I stopped seeing her for a while at the games though, because she got hurt. A month or so went by and I finally see her at a bar. First thing she said to me was "you are awesome". After talking for a little bit I had to go somewhere, then I came back and stood beside her while I talked to someone and she talked to someone. Then at one point she turns to me and says "dont go anywhere, I want your phone number". YES, she asked for it herself. I give her my phone number, she gives me hers, and then we start talking. We talked for a while, mostly about her, which is fine by me. I am a good listener. (Important note: she broke up with a guy from a 7 year realtionship back in June. This would be around Mid-October when this conversation happened).

Most importantly though, she kept giving me IOIs left and right. Apart from the obvious "you are awesome" and "I want your phone number". There was a point where the following took place (we were at the bar after the kickball game, so I was wearing my kickball uniform and some sweat here and there)

She: You smell really nice
Me: I am not wearing anything.
She: Oh thats alright, cause I don't like guys that wear too much cologne.

IOI right there if you ask me.

Then after a little while she was saying how she didnt want to put herself in a pedestal but she thought she was pretty smart and not bad looking (she is definitely an 8.5 I would say). Again IOI. Somewhere then, during the conversation, I told her if she wanted to do something that week. She said she needed to move her brother out the next day but that wasn't completely set in stone. I asked her if she wanted to do dinner or something, she thought about it and then said yes. That she wanted to. I told her that if she wasnt sure we didnt have to, but she agreed to it. We end the night because it was getting late...so I leave (maybe I should've stayed, I dont know...cause she was asking me stuff about me but she was kind of tipsy and keep in mind this is a girl I wanted to date for real).

The next day I text her, she says she needs to move her brother out but that if something changes she will let me know. I say alright, let me know if you need help with the moving (big mistake I think) if not let me know for dinner.

Text her the day after that asking her how the moving went, she said not so well, I ask her if she has time that night to go out for dinner and she replies that she appreciates the offer but that she really cant do dinner cause she is not ready for something so intimate. I say thats cool, we can hang out then if she wants, just as friends and just go from there, and she says that would be good.

Few days go by, we have kickball again. That day at the bar I went to her and said "hey can we talk for a little bit?" and she asked what was wrong, I said nothing just to talk...she said "I will be there in 2 seconds". So I went and I sat down, few minutes went by and she came towards me and sat down with me. 10 seconds after this happened, a freaking douche from my team sits with us and cockblocks me. I was PISSED. Shortly after that she had to go into the bar to do something, so I went in as well but didnt follow her. Lost her for a few mins but then she came back (after, I heard she actually went out asking and looking for me). I told her if she wanted to go outside cause it was too loud in there, she agreed (IOI?) and we went outside to talk for a little bit but then, again, the same douche came and sat with us. PISSED beyond believe at this point. Some stuff happen here and there and then we went in but she was talking to other people and I was mostly just there standing, talking to some people from time to time but obviously waiting for her. I fell like THIS was the turning point. I felt like leaving at this time but I didn't. Didn't follow my gut feeling and I FU. Shortly after that she said she had to go and I asked her if she wanted to go out in the weekend, and she said she would let me know cause she might be busy. I asked busy with what (cause I knew it was bullshit) and she got kinda pissed at me and asked me why I was giving her an ultimatum. I said I wasn't...and she turned around and walked away. I was calling her name but she ignored me. Point was that I was asking her to hang out, not on a date and she didnt get that, so I texted her explaining that to her and she replied saying I was a little bit up in her business and that for future reference I should back out a little bit and I would have more success with girls.

Ever since that it has been kinda weird, I even texted her on a friday shortly after that letting her know (as a joke sort of) that my performance that night was on purpose, it can only go up from there...and she replied saying that she appreciated the persistence but that she really cant date right now. Again, she assumed I was asking her out when I truly wasn't.

I feel like if I had stayed there a little bit longer the first night, or if I had actually left earlier the night of the cockblock, I would have succeeded with her. As simple as that...this FU is what truly motivated me to learn more about the PUA world and to improve on my skills...

Maybe I still have a shot with her? For now I am just giving her space. I am finding other girls to talk to...

-Jeet

 

[AFCnoob]

Wow, at least at the outset, that girl was totally chasing you, she was quite direct, throwing out all sorts of IOI's, and was even doing DHV's on herself, which is...always a good sign.

Wow, I'm a beginner myself, and I may be way off base with this stuff, but if it were me, at that first interaction, I would (have):

(1) Chase framed when she first started talking to you. It's obvious that you were into her, but it would have been so easy to get a chase frame going and heighten her interest even more.

(2) Gotten her alone and in a 1 on 1 conversation immediately.

(3) Established rapport, then a connection, then escalated--see "Move fast with girls". (but that's just me)

(4) Even if you really wanted to date this girl for real, I would have still moved fast, just because of the natural decay/half-life of attraction (see "Attraction has an expiration date"--and boy, does it!). You just stand your best chance when you move fast (as you no doubt came to learn).

(5) Would NOT have invited her to dinner, especially as a first date, that's quite a big deal, and comes with all kinds of implications and expectations. Hell, I would have asked her to go get some Fundip with me in the local mall or something. There's a blog post on keeping dates simple.

(6) Would have never, ever offered to help her move, or do anything else either. Great way to slide into "helpful guy"/friend zone territory and get yourself shut down.

The next time you saw her, I would (have):

(1) Not asked her to talk to her, just talked to her (see how you got that weird reaction from her when you did that?)

(2) Not allowed team DOUCHE to break my circle, and either: a) ignored him so he couldn't interfere b) politely excused him from the conversation c) moved to a more private location

(3) Certainly pushed for her to go out with me on the weekend--although I would have built it up differently, and I would have asked at a high point, rather than when it seemed like it was an attempt to save the interaction. But even then, I would do it by simply insisting and trying to provide better and better reasons for her to change her plans/go out with me instead, I would never, ever ask her to explain or clarify why she couldn't go out with me. That's a surefire way to make her really go looking for more and more reasons not to go out with you, and it feels like you're calling her out/shit testing her, which is...bad?

*EDIT* Then again, while I often push very hard for girls to do things with me *at that moment*, I rarely push hard for girls to do things with me *in the future*, there's too much chance for error, building something up bigger than it is, backpedaling, commitment remorse, etc. etc., and I don't want to associate myself with negative emotions like that that will be cycling around in her brain.

(4) NEVER have called after her. You look weak/desperate, in a very public way, and you're letting everyone in earshot know as well.

(5) Never have "explained" myself. At all. But especially in a text (although I used to do this as well, as you'll see)

You should really take her advice, you came off as clingy/needy when things started going south and she was pulling away. It's especially painful to get advice on game from girls, but I find it's the best advice I receive, because it brands that lesson directly into my brain for life with the searing pain of rejection.

You also didn't go a lot into how your conversations went--screening/qualifying, deep diving, maintaining threads, and framing, which makes me wonder how exactly you were maneuvering those conversations around.

I'm not sure exactly how team DOUCHE cock blocked you, he sounded more like an annoying interruption, unless he was somehow trying to actively sabotage you, and it seems like technically, he would have to have some connection/sway over the girl to effectively cock block you.

It's really interesting to see all of the same elements in play in your interactions as in mine. Please don't think that I'm trying to sound experienced or more savvy, I had an experience almost exactly like yours, but more extreme and drawn out. It's quite embarrassing, and you can read all about it when I post it in a couple of days.

I went from a great girl with very high attraction to a girl who wouldn't even talk to me. In fact, that interaction was my main motivation to come to this blog and start learning. I'm really sorry that it didn't work out for you, but yes: If there's one thing you take away from this, perhaps it's just what you need to get you good and serious about fixing up your game and figuring out what to do and what not to do, either with this girl further down the road, or for the next great girl who wants to know what you're all about.

 

[Jeet02]

AFCnoob,

As always very awesome post man.

Keep in mind this was pre-pua learning so there is a LOT of stuf I know I could have done different. But just to clarify, I had her 1 on 1 the first time we talked. It was just her and me...it was funny too cause we had that sense of it is just us agains the world kinda thing you know? Where the whole world just disappears and you are a 100% focused on her. Pretty cool.

The second time I actually told her if we could talk for a sec, cause she was talking to some other dude and I was just trying to pull her away on a 1 on 1. And it did work in a sense...she did come looking for me (twice).

With all of that said though, trust me when I say: the situation would have been WAY different if it all occurred now. For starters, I would have tried to escalate a lot quicker for sure. Maybe even drive the conversation into a more sexual theme. Although now that I think about it, she kinda did herself. Damn...she was handing it to me so easy, I was (am) so stupid. She was talking about how she always wears a small bikini when she goes jet-skiing. She even added me on facebook right there so I could see it. I told her she looked pretty darn good but that was the end of it. I am even more pissed at myself now. But yes, I would have tried to escalate way faster, especially when she started talking about her ex I could have changed it to something else.

Second, I think that the second time the douche came to sit with us I would have excused myself and leave them talking. As if saying, well fine....she is all yours, I am out. Obviously giving her a chance to chase and if she doesn't, then F it.

And there is a lot more I would have done different, like inviting her to hang out for drinks or something instead of a date, and definitely not ask her to help her move and so much more. I feel like I definitely screwed up big time, but she was the turning point. She was the one that made me say, I can't keep going down this path, I want to be able to succeed with this type of women, ESPECIALLY when she was so interested in me. I felt like she was being bipolar something though, sometimes she seemed really interested, others she didn't. But maybe that was my own damn fault...

Like they say though...everything happens for a reason. And I am here today...to find out what that reason is.

-Jeet

PS (edit). What I don't get is...if she was THAT interested where she was giving me so many damn IOI's. Would doing what I did, showing interest back, asking her out and being persistent about it, push her away as I did? Wouldn't she want me to do that? I understand making me chase her (which she still did like I said) and even escalating would have helped, but not doing it and having the situation evolve as it did, really ruin my chances? Or could this be the time where part of the problem is that she was really being bipolar about it?

 

[AFCnoob]

Thanks for clarifying those points with me, Jeet. I have the same thing where I'm posting a lot of my pre-GC interactions, which are full of me doing dumbness I would never do now.

One tiny thing: I still wouldn't have let team DOUCHE interrupt my interaction. I wouldn't break circle with the girl unless: a) she went cold for some reason and the situation was going nowhere/unretrievable or b) she broke circle first and made it clear that team DOUCHE was way more interesting to her than you.

PS (edit). What I don't get is...if she was THAT interested where she was giving me so many damn IOI's. Would doing what I did, showing interest back, asking her out and being persistent about it, push her away as I did? Wouldn't she want me to do that? I understand making me chase her (which she still did like I said) and even escalating would have helped, but not doing it and having the situation evolve as it did, really ruin my chances? Or could this be the time where part of the problem is that she was really being bipolar about it?

I'm so glad you asked this, it is quite an interesting dynamic, and even thought I haven't figured it out 100% for myself yet, I'm sure it is very key to, if not at the very heart of successful PU. First of all, attraction is not an unchanging thing, it's not like you're either attracted to someone or your not, attraction can change drastically in one direction or the other, but in my personal experience it mostly changes for the worse (Attraction Has an Expiration Date).

Case in point: I once saw a girl so awesome that I decided I just had to walk up to her and talk to her, and this was in my nerdy high school days when I never talked to girls. I had taken two steps toward her when she loudly, rudely called over to her friend and started saying some of the dumbest things I had ever heard (thrusters to full reverse). I lost interest immediately, and never even thought about her again.

Now, stop and think about this: why was this girl attracted to you? Perhaps because she saw you in a certain light, the sweaty, manly athlete just chillin' there who she'd like to meet. She didn't know you, but she was attracted because of the way she saw you, of the way she thought you were, or hoped you would be.

However, you unwittingly sabotaged her attraction. As I'm sure you've noticed, you displayed a lot of passive/submissive/supplicating characteristics--and then you started chasing her, and contrary to what movies would have us believe, chasing a woman is just about one of the least attractive things you can do (Keeping Your Cool: Don't Chase Women).

It seems like maybe it's different for guys and girls. Guys want to be dominant, and an attractive girl pursuing you increases your feeling of dominance. Girls want to be dominated--by a man, but when you pursue her, you're giving her dominance over you. You're effectively saying: "I want to be submissive/supplicate to you." and it seems like that's a big turn off.

This seems confounding, even to me, because then it's like: "Wait, so the only way to pursue women is by...not pursuing them?" But that's not quite right, "pursuing" and "chasing" are two completely different things, in my opinion. You pursue a girl by expressing interest and then immediately getting her interested in you with various methods (How to Attract Women: The Guide).

I dunno, human evolution has shaped women to only be interested in men they see as high value and feel they have to pursue. That seems to be just the way it works. Go find a cat outside and just straight up start chasing it. It will do what comes naturally, and...run the other way! Approach it and dangle a bit of string though...

Women are not cats, but in this one instance, they seem to behave pretty much the same.