Lead without hurting/suppressing and without need

[Little Jester]

I find running simple thoughts, simple believes, simple lines in my head will bring out new behaviors and thinking.
But sometimes things become more complicated and then I can't seem to boil it down to a simple core believe that works 80% of the time.
I need it simple, because otherwise I keep running mind loops and don't take action at all.

So I'm running this thought: "I'm a leader; a team captain"

No matter if this is with a girl you are hitting on, friends you are hanging out with, or people you do business with, you have some core believes of what it is to lead.
I ran with:
- Take action to move things forward
- Instead of asking, assume you are getting

Problem here is, it promotes dictator like behavior. I'd suppress people with a certain tension that they'd start to fear me. I'd even hurt people by taking them somewhere physically, emotionally or logistically where their baggage catches up with them. I didn't get far into this; I've only touched the borders and quickly realized that I don't want to go there and backed off on those behaviors.

The other end of lead is really weak or actually not leading at all. This is the team struggle I played with earlier in another tread.
- Purpose action to move things forward.
- Don't assume you are getting something, ask first.

While you do initialize things for yourself to get it on track in the way you want, it is a needy way of doing it. You give control away. It fucks with the law of least effort. People start ignoring your questions / proposals, if you keep doing this.

Any ideas on a healthy 'lead' mindset with people in general that makes you walk the fine line between becoming needy and dictating?

 

[Light]

You can only lead those who are willing to follow.
You can't expect everyone to agree with you.
So you must learn to respect other's decision, and should they walk a different path, you let them, but you stick to yours.

You want to be Firm. Not Demanding.

Also, being a leader doesn't mean you always have to say anything. A real leader can get his message across without words if he knows how.

A real leader creates more leaders. They don't just lead, they inspire others.

 

[Little Jester]

Hey Light,

You can only lead those who are willing to follow.
You can't expect everyone to agree with you.

So don't persist if:

they walk a different path, you let them, but you stick to yours.

I understand that, but I'll have to ask what they want, in order to find out. Among asking questions, asking what someone wants, isn't all that of a bad question of course. Though it is a question that may go poorly answered or not answered at all if it comes from a need to move forward. The other way is moving things forward with persistence and evaluate were you stand after doing so, which leads to the opposite.

So yeah:

You want to be Firm. Not Demanding.

I guess I'm asking how you can do this 80% of the time. How do you break 'be firm but not demanding' down in your head, so that it inspires the right behaviors and actions?
Currently I'm not demanding, but it is at the cost of being firm, because I offer up being persistent.

Hope this question makes sense, 'cause it is one of those questions that I ask because of wanting to avoid pitfalls next time, but I'm still taking stabs at what may be the root problem here. Maybe I'm over thinking it.

 

[Light]

I understand that, but I'll have to ask what they want, in order to find out. Among asking questions, asking what someone wants, isn't all that of a bad question of course. Though it is a question that may go poorly answered or not answered at all if it comes from a need to move forward. The other way is moving things forward with persistence and evaluate were you stand after doing so, which leads to the opposite.

You don't ask what people want just so that you can lead them. That is not your goal.
You just need to display your own qualities by knowing what you yourself want in life, and you show that you are walking your talk.
People who are interested in you will want to follow you naturally. They see that you hold qualities that they want in themselves.
You ask someone what they want because you actually care about them, and you want to find out how you can help that person achieve their own goals, even if it is opposite of yours. A leader naturally has the ability to inspire others, and make them see how they can achieve goals.

If I was to draw it out for you, it would look like this:
Its not a matter of finding out Person A's goal is Goal X, which is not the same as yours - Goal Z. So you choose to ignore him, challenge him, or try to persist in leading him to Goal Z. - This is NOT the way.

Its about finding out Person A has Goal X, - Ok.. Thats great! you aim to help him, inspire him, encourage him.
You tell him, well my goal is Goal Z, its different from his, but MAYBE by aiming for Goal Z, it also helps with Goal X?
You aim to gain mutual respect.
You inspire someone by demonstrating your own leadership, and showing others that you're an action taker.
People will respect you for this.
People who respect you, WILL follow you to.. to an extent. At least agree with you with most things you say. (Because you are that person who knows how to help others, and know what he is talking about.)

Leaders don't find followers. They Attract them by simply walking their own path, and helping others on the way.

I guess I'm asking how you can do this 80% of the time. How do you break 'be firm but not demanding' down in your head, so that it inspires the right behaviors and actions?
Currently I'm not demanding, but it is at the cost of being firm, because I offer up being persistent.

- Being firm does not mean you need to challenge anyone. You carry on walking your own talk. Thats it.
Being firm means you stand by your own rules, but you do not need to convince or persuade anyone.
The question I have for you is.. You are being persistent in... what???

I have a feeling that you are trying to convince others into seeing your perspective in life am I correct?
If so, that is not something you should be aiming for. You should be inspiring others by helping them, and seeing their own view of perspective.
Thats how you show qualities of leadership.

 

[Little Jester]

Thanks Light, that's the kind of stuff I have to think about I guess. And then try to boil it down to something simple.

You are being persistent in... what???

I have a feeling that you are trying to convince others into seeing your perspective in life am I correct?

Actually I am not that persisting by nature, but I have tried to do this and figured it is not for me, because I started being a dictator. An asshole. it's not so much about trying to convince others. It is assuming they share similar goals with me and I persist in getting them to move forward with me towards those goals.
By example I kept persisting in:
- moving a girl to intimacy
- getting a friend to come hang out to discuss and enjoy life
- getting a business partner to take action in order to get closer to business success.

This at least tries to move things in the way I want, but I miss out on details, by example:
- I miss to see the girl is insecure about something and I pushed her over the edge
- the friend is having too much stuff on his mind and not in the mood
- the business partner is stressed out or planning a different path to success.

So I don't want to go there.
But my "ask them about it" approach isn't working either... It is hitting silent walls and leads to no action at all.
I'll have to let that 'walking your talk', 'mutual respect' and goal stuff sink in for a bit I guess.

 

[Light]

By example I kept persisting in:
- moving a girl to intimacy
- getting a friend to come hang out to discuss and enjoy life
- getting a business partner to take action in order to get closer to business success.

This at least tries to move things in the way I want, but I miss out on details, by example:
- I miss to see the girl is insecure about something and I pushed her over the edge
- the friend is having too much stuff on his mind and not in the mood
- the business partner is stressed out or planning a different path to success.

So I don't want to go there.
But my "ask them about it" approach isn't working either... It is hitting silent walls and leads to no action at all.

Ah ha... I finally understand where you are coming from. Its a matter of knowing the difference between being Persistent and being Pushy.
This is simple stuff. I'll show you.

Don't say stuff like: " You should do this..." or "You need to..."
Instead, say:
"How about ...(do this, or try this.)"
"Maybe you can try this way.."
"Don't you think it would help if you did this..."

So in other words, don't use statements. Ask open questions instead, bringing in the idea, so that they consider it.
When you become good at doing this, you can eventually plant ideas into their heads, and they will even think that they're the ones who came up with it!

The difference between being persistent and pushy is knowing when to stop, and knowing when to try again.

For example:
You: "Hey, why don't you come out with us? It'll be fun"
Him: "No, I'm busy."
You: "Come on, I promise you it will be worth your time,"
Him: "hmm... no I really shouldn't. I've got a lot to do."
You: "Well ok.. are you sure?"
Him: "Yeh.. maybe next time."
You: ' Sure buddy. Just don't want you missing out. But give me a buzz if you change your mind!"

That is being persistent, and not pushy. You ask no more than 2 times, and on the 3rd time you ask for a final confirmation "are you sure..?'
See how you ask in the 1st question while stating the benefits.
Then you ask the 2nd question in more demanding way "come on.. I promise" listing another benefit.
Confirm on the 3rd. Usually they may change their mind here, but if they don't....
then you also end it with an open choice, so that he knows he can always change his mind should he want to!

However, remember that women respond differently to men when it comes to persistency.
Women find men attractive when he appears dominant via persistency, but men is a no no.
You need to be more toned down and give mutual respect.

Chase also wrote a nice blog about persistent with women here:
https://www.girlschase.com/content/persist-your-insistence

 

[Little Jester]

Hey Light,

Hmm I believe I do start like that, though maybe I start not with a 'why don't you', but more with a 'let's do this or that'. But I follow up somewhat the same as you suggest. But if I start persisting thereafter, I guess I don't know when to quit and I end up with forcing a decision like ultimatums "Do you want to miss out, or move forward?", or a tease saying something like "So good of you that you're going to join me on this", while them never agreeing with me in the first place, or I do a hard push like Chase mentions in his article. This all maybe isn't a great way to deal with friends and business partners

I think I can work with what you suggest. Just not so sure what mindset I'm going to run in my head to inspire that when in the moment. Probably a "stay chill, relaxed and cool" mindset. I'll figure it out

Cheers!

 

[Little Jester]

Hmm thinking about this longer, somehow I feel there is a big difference in starting with "Why don't you do this or that" and "Let's do this or that".

With the first one you're suggesting something so they can make it their own.
With the second one you're already invested into it and it makes it your idea.

I feel it makes a difference in how things work out in the longer run and I think both have an impact on how the relationship progresses, no matter if it be a romantic, friendly or business type of relationship (though the kind of impact will most likely be different)

What do you suggest is the better opener among the two? Are there drawbacks to either way of opening? What are the differences between the type of relationships where this is used?

Just thought I throw these out while I think about them. Might be interesting to break down.

 

[Flames]

That's a fantastic piece of writing about leadership Light, you've really hit the nail on the head there.

I was simply going to say if you have to think 'I want to be a leader' then your mindset is wrong.

Lead by example...

 

[Light]

Thanks Flames

@ Little Jester

Hmm thinking about this longer, somehow I feel there is a big difference in starting with "Why don't you do this or that" and "Let's do this or that".

With the first one you're suggesting something so they can make it their own.
With the second one you're already invested into it and it makes it your idea.

- Thats correct. It not what you say to people.. Its how you say it to them that matters.
If I was to use the 2nd line "Lets do this..", then it would just be a statement. So I would have to add at the end "What do you think?"
It allows the decision maker to make a choice, and doesn't seem like you're trying to push an idea to him.

If you really like to learn about persuading people, then I recommend you read this great book:
"How to win friends, and influence people" - By Dale Carnegie

http://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0091906814