FR LongSexyLegs

[Marty]

Sunday I took a trip to our city's Botanical Garden. I was with a couple other people, but we went in separate cars which made things easy. After a half-hour or so I waited for them to walk ahead on a winding path lined with tall shrubs, then turned around and gave them the slip.

Within ten minutes I had found my target. A tall girl apparently in her mid-twenties, in wedge heels and a very short blue-and-white dress with long blond hair and some of the finest legs I've ever seen. She was with two other women... a much older woman whom I presumed to be her mother and another of about own her age, but much plainer, whom I had down as her sister. Both assumptions turned out to be wrong: they were her aunt and cousin.

Here was my chance to do a group approach properly and really have fun with it. I sat and observed them for a while; they were taking their time, enjoying their Sunday afternoon in the garden in no hurry. They walked down a path toward the lily-pond and hothouse. I wasn't sure whether I'd be able to isolate the girl. I took the path on the opposite side of the lawn, in the same direction.

I walked past them at the lily-pond and entered the hothouse, figuring that would be their next destination. I hung out among the orchids and creepers. I took up position on a little wooden bridge, watching the waterfowl below and waiting.

Five minutes later they came in, chatting animatedly. They took a look at the frogs, then came in my direction. They were speaking a language I know well, one I speak fluently.

I cooled my heels the other side of the bridge. They walked onto the bridge and started taking photographs. I wandered up casually and offered to photograph the three of them: they readily assented.

Even a month or two ago I wouldn't have been able to figure out that angle, and would almost certainly have cried off this approach as too difficult.

I handed back the camera to one of the women; another handed me hers, the aunt I think. I took more photos, and returned it. They were still in no hurry, but very much together.

I stepped onto the bridge where my girl was leaning on the railing. I leaned next to her facing the same direction, touched her arm lightly and spoke in a deep, resonating, slow, barely audible, conspiratorial tone.

"Excuse me a second. I don't want to disturb while you're with your mom, but I couldn't help noticing you have the most glorious long sexy legs. I wanted to say hello."

"Oh!!!" Big smile.

"What's your name?" Still the same husky tone.

"Hi, I'm LongSexyLegs."

"LongSexyLegs, it's nice to meet you." Smile, strong eye contact, lengthy pause. "I'm Marty."

I take her hand. She introduces the other women as her aunt and cousin. She tells me they are visiting from a land I know. I speak to them briefly, a couple sentences in their own language. Giggles all around, especially from the aunt!

I turn back to LongSexyLegs and build very brief rapport... I cannot detain her long from her visitors. I ask her on a date and she agrees. I tell her to put her number in my phone.

She starts asking me questions about myself, but I consider it proper to preserve mystique, particularly as she is not alone. I say, "We'll talk about it later." That'll give the three of them a bone to chew on as they wonder about this mysterious man who approached her! I wish them well for the remainder of their visit and leave. And no cheek-kiss this time. It wouldn't be proper in front of the aunt. ;-)

 

[Velour]

Very smooth! And good description as well.

Has she gotten back to you?

 

[Marty]

Very smooth! And good description as well.

Thanks, Velour.

Has she gotten back to you?

Nope. They never seem to. After opening 73 women I've gotten 28 numbers (38%), but only 3 dates (11% of numbers) and ... wait for it ... precisely 0 kisses. I must be doing something wrong, but I've no idea what. Can't tell whether it's value or attainability, and I've no idea how I might go about distinguishing it.

 

[Marty]

Nope. They never seem to.

Spoke too soon. Patience is a virtue!

She texted back yesterday, I spoke to her late last night on the phone for 10-15 minutes (we didn't have a chance to speak properly when her relatives were around). She wants a date. I'm gonna set it up

 

[Marty]

Massive investment demand... how to field it?

Hi fellas,

So LongSexyLegs (described above) has been slow-gaming me in a very peculiar manner.

She took over 24 hours!!! to respond to my first text message (excluding icebreaker), arranging to chat on the phone (to compensate for a lack of connection on the approach due to her relatives being present).

We spoke last night around 10.15 PM, for about 15 min; she took the call from a restaurant where she was with her (female) friend; she obviously enjoyed the chat, from her tone of voice and laughing, and I felt relaxed and dominant. We didn't fix up the date straight away as she was with her friend. She asked me to call around that time, so I think she wanted the friend to hear and give her opinion... it was obviously someone she knew well.

This morning I text her to set up the date. After 8 hours she gets back to me as follows (text redacted slightly for reasons of security):

Hey Marty, I liked talking to you too My schedule is full through the end of this week, but I have some free time Saturday morning after my aerobics class ending at 10.30 AM. I have to be at work by 1.30 PM. Can we meet at 11? Your suggestion sounds good to me LongSexyLegs

It so happens I am free around that time, in fact it's the best time for me to meet up all weekend and it's more or less what I was going to suggest anyway, but that's not the point. What is she doing here? Trying to call all the shots? Is she really that much in demand?

My main concerns are:

• 
  How soon should I reply?
  Am I going to look weak accepting her frame?
  What's with the slow text responses?
  Is the three-hour window for the date an intentional time restriction to keep me under her control?

Any help with the above appreciated! Thank you

-Marty

 

[NarrowJ]

Hey Marty,

I usually text them at about the same speed they are texting me, but I vary the response times so it's not obvious. So if she is consistently taking 8 hours to text me back, I might take 6 hours before I text her back, sometimes 2, sometimes 10 or 12. I wouldn't read into it too much. I've met girls that text me back instantly, and they're not much more interested than a girl taking hours to reply. Some girls like to text and some don't, I guess.

Her time constraint may be intentional. She's telling you how the date is going to go down and there won't be any sex. This happens when the girl may see herself as a little higher value and thinks: "Well, he's not sexy enough for a lover. But, he seems like a really good guy so maybe he can complete the steps necessary to become my boyfriend." Nowadays, if I sense the girl thinks she's higher value I just get the heck out of there, because other than pre-selection there's little you can do once she's made her value assessment of you.

She's still very attainable though, if you do things right. So you could move forward with her and do the lunch date, and if you go on a few more subsequent dates, and it all goes well and you push all her buttons, at that point she'll go to bed with you. Sounds like a lot of work, and it is. She probably has her dating process down to a T if she's imposing time constraints like that.

Just my read on the situation! Keep us informed
NJ

 

[Marty]

NJ, thank you so much!

This happens when the girl may see herself as a little higher value and thinks: "Well, he's not sexy enough for a lover. But, he seems like a really good guy so maybe he can complete the steps necessary to become my boyfriend."

I think that's exactly it. I've started suspecting that I lack "lover value". I actually already started posting about this here and Estate has kindly begun answering my questions.

The real issue, of course, is can I do anything about a lack of "lover value"? Am I stuck with it, or is there a fix? (For the future—not for this girl of course.)

I vary the response times so it's not obvious.

Good call—I think I'll text back very late tonight, right before I go to sleep, to set an intimate tone and then the gap'll be about right too.

if you go on a few more subsequent dates, and it all goes well and you push all her buttons, at that point she'll go to bed with you.

I guess the trick here is to find out what those buttons are... what Chase in his ebook calls getting a girl to tell you about her ideal man, then being that man... or replicating him as close as possible?

I'm concerned that if I attempt any assertive "boyfriend disqualification" strategies I might get kicked out altogether. On the phone she said I had a "creative" appearance (in the artistic sense... I'm translating from Russian)—I'm amazed to hear it, as I've always thought of myself as rather respectable-looking, but hopefully that should be disqualification enough by itself! ;-)

-Marty

 

[Marty]

Now she is dictating the location too... nothing wrong with it, a coffee shop in the same plaza as her aerobics studio, but it doesn't offer many romantic possibilities e.g. little walks in a park, sit down together close on a bench, etc. I wanted to try to make out with her but I'm at a loss as to how to generate adequate privacy ;-)

How do you think she'd like it if I wrote "You're obviously a woman who's used to getting what she wants" or is that supplicatory?

 

[Laowai]

You only talked to her for a few minutes, bascially. That's why she is playing things this way. You must chill and grab at the compliance she is giving you. You could still easily lose her at this point if you fuck up. Go out to the meeting location a few days in advance and set up your dating plan with bounces and get familiar with the area.

 

[Marty]

Hey Laowai,

Intrigued by your thoughtful comment, I've taken a look at some of your other posts.

From reading those, I conclude that I tend to focus too much on process and moving forward assertively; and not enough on getting a girl comfortable with me.

I believe I have a lot to learn from you. Thank you.

-Marty

 

[Laowai]

Marty,
thanks for the thumbs up. You're dealing with a girl whose interest level is moderate to slightly higher than moderate. She liked you from the start and was impressed by your boldness, but her texting you the way she does as well as squeezing you in between her plans suggest that you still have some way to go with her.

Great job calling her and talking to her to build some connection and comfort and make her invest in you. These three are probably what she needs most of at this point. If you meet her around 12 noon at a location with many people next to her gym, I probably wouldn't aim for a k-close, but just build some attraction, connection and comfort. Expect her to be hungry and wanting to eat smth. You also need to get an understanding for her logistics and schedule, so you can set up the next date (preferably drinks) on an evening sometime soon.

These things will most likely leave you in the best position for executing all the nasty stuff I know you wanna do to her

 

[Laowai]

... also, having a game process is awesome and imho the best way to do things since you'll get some structure on your game which will help you identify recurring patterns.

Focusing on moving forward assertively during a pick-up is good... but don't forget that you MUST remember to remain flexible.

I blew a few chances at meeting some real stunners because I acted too assertive and didn't want to meet them on their terms, hence the advice I gave you above to grab at whatever compliance they're giving and remain flexible.

... and the next time you're setting up a meet she'll most likely be willing to meet on your terms, since she owes you one.

 

[NarrowJ]

Laowai,

Have to ask why a guy should run out to the date location and spend time scoping things out. Isn't that a lot of investment you're putting forth for a first meet? Wouldn't that lead a fellow to be a little outcome dependent? I've always just did the Law of Least Effort type thing and show up 5 minutes late and let my confidence, charm and framing blow her away. That way she can blow me away later

Anyway, your advice you had given me so graciously regarding seeding and setting comfort levels really helped me figure a lot of stuff out. I'm a better man because of people like yourself. So, much respect and im not questioning your advice one bit, but rather trying to grasp the concept.

NJ

 

[Laowai]

Well... I suggested he should do that a few days in advance which is smth I myself thought was a little funny afterwards but was too lazy to change the wording of - taking the time to do that days in advance is not strictly necessary.

However, I do find it most useful advice to know the area you're taking a girl around in so that you may lead her better. One of the more annoying things I've dealt with in dating is when girls have changed our plans and suggested we deviated from the original plan and location, and I suddenly find myself in an area of town that I don't know where she must lead me. It's also unsexy if you're on a date and you can't find the original bar you wanted to take her to.

So what I do if I'm in a new location and I got a date is to always spend some time scouting for a few good bars in close proximity to the place I'm staying. In hostels this even gets down to looking for suitable bathrooms ; )

The time is not wasted, especially if you'll stay in town for a long time. It's about building a date template which you can use again and again.

Much of game comes down to minimizing the chances of fucking up and of maximizing the control we have over as many factors that we can, hence the advice above : )

 

[Marty]

Thanks NarrowJ and Laowai!

I actually know the plaza in question quite well and just in case, I researched it on Google Maps ahead of my trip this morning.

We had an open and honest conversation and I was totally relaxed, there was lots of touch, etc., but she basically told me after an hour or so that she didn't want to see me again. Makes me wonder why she wanted to see me in the first place. Maybe she thought I wanted to be friends, although I can't imagine why given how direct I opened in the botanical garden.

Apparently she was married for 5 years or so and has been divorced for another 5 or more, and has come out of the experience with certain "principles" that to me seem utterly artificial and hypocritical. I told her I was more interested in human feeling than "principles", although I guess I do have principles too, like cutting off women who just want to string me along, and not being friends or wasting time unsexually with women I'm attracted to. So I reassured her that I do have some principles.

Doesn't matter, I was only sexually attracted to her, not smitten, so it's probably just as well that she's not wasting any more of my time. She actually kissed me on the cheek at the end and I asked if we could try that again, but properly this time, but she declined. That's why I can't understand why she ever wanted to see me at all—I mean, you either want to kiss someone or you don't, right? I can't see how "principles" come into it.

 

[PrettyDecent]

Hey Marty,

We had an open and honest conversation and I was totally relaxed, there was lots of touch, etc., but she basically told me after an hour or so that she didn't want to see me again. Makes me wonder why she wanted to see me in the first place. Maybe she thought I wanted to be friends, although I can't imagine why given how direct I opened in the botanical garden.

I remembered something similar happening to me a few months ago, which I thought was strange too, since I opened direct (and I also had her sit on my bed with me..). She latched on to me pretty hard, and then resisted any sexual advancement. I agree with NJ here, then, it's not coming across as having enough "lover value". And then when you don't follow those non-sexual expectations, she's like "WHOA, he's coming on WAY too aggressive!", and she plays it nice at the end to "protect your feelings". That's probably why she takes it upon herself to do the legwork to make sure the meetup happens...because she doesn't think you ARE that aggressive.

Anyways, I think these girls are rather uncommon...on to the next one!

Nick

 

[Marty]

That's probably why she takes it upon herself to do the legwork to make sure the meetup happens...because she doesn't think you ARE that aggressive.

I remembered something similar happening to me a few months ago, which I thought was strange too, since I opened direct

I think you've nailed it, these are similar circumstances. As you say, on to the next one!

I agree with NJ here, then, it's not coming across as having enough "lover value". And then when you don't follow those non-sexual expectations, she's like "WHOA, he's coming on WAY too aggressive!"

I'm fully on board with this now. I started to explore that precise issue of "lover value" here, if you have time, I'd appreciate any tips you can give. Thanks!!!