- Joined
- Dec 6, 2012
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Summary:
This was an interesting little hook-up, and embarrassing fuck-up. The former portion because I was totally not expecting this to happen with this girl based on how she’d been generally interacting with me (cold and uninterested after her recent breakup) and there was CRAZY LMR and persistence involved; the latter because sex was eventually on the table and I had a panic attack—twice! Both of these really freaked her out sending her into auto-rejection, and freaked me out as well because I instilled two moments of ED. I was successfully able to navigate around LMR multiple times, and primed her for penetration twice, yet also fucked it all up myself because I panicked internally RIGHT when I put the condom on both times and went soft. This is a much bigger inner issue that I’ll need to resolve—it happens to me a lot (any thoughts on dealing with this, guys?).
I’d say only parts of this follow the GirlsChase process—I definitely didn’t meet her in cold approach, instead through social circle. I took a very long time to get intimate with her—with some reasons. On the flipside, when I got her alone with me I tried to follow GC as much as I could, especially with conveying myself as a sexual and open minded man with no long term interest in her.
Logistically this was also a challenge, as both of us were living in houses with family there. We eventually wound up back at my place where I only had a couch and shower available.
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Day 1 & 2: Meeting this girl (Friday night, Saturday night)
Day 1: I went out to downtown with my wingman buddy to meet girls, but totally flopped. I just was not at all in the right mood, and with every girl I talked to, my vibe was off and I couldn’t talk to them. I gave in to it an hour later and instead went to my friend’s place to chill close to my house. There were five of us there, including this girl “Violet.”
I didn’t try to engage her too much: she was the token female in the group, the rest guys, and while I initially found her very cute, I didn’t know anything about her or if she came with one of the guys. She had very striking features—hair parted sideways with a very strong violet streak at the front masking half her face, and the right side of her head with short hair (formerly shaved probably)—and also with a triad of very unique ear piercings. Her vibe was tomboyish—seemed calm and collected yet with a bit of an edge to her personality, like she’s been through a bit of trauma before and overcome from it. She seemed like an artsy-creative type, which is a type of girl I feel attracted to but usually find it hard to close with because I don’t present myself in that way despite having those interests. It turned out her boyfriend of a year and a half had just broken up with her earlier that night, and she was there to unwind and chill with friends—smoking weed, drinking beer, talking life.
As she revealed over time to the group, we had quite a number of core interests in unison—same taste in music, interest in travel and seeing other cultures, an open-mindedness about living life, the principles of karma and being good to people, and generally she seemed like a more in control, advanced version of me. She seemed extroverted, but I’d find out later on that she considers herself quite the shy introvert and just presents a different side around friends.
Anyway, I got high too with everyone else, putting me in a rock-stoned state and really unable to function well as far as pickup goes. We all went to a hookah lounge nearby where we hung out from about 1:30am till 4:15am—four of us as one of the guys left. She seems to like smoking.
At the lounge, I’m sitting to her right side around a circular table, and when there’s a momentary break in group convo and my two guy friends are talking to each other, I go for the number: “Hey, Violet…you seem like cool people. I mean, you have really alluring features, and I’d like to get to know you better. What say you and I grab coffee sometime?” She basically rejected me: “Ummm….I don’t know, I just broke up dude, and I’m really not looking for anything like that. We can be friends.” In my high state of mind, I didn’t know how to respond. I just handed her my phone and let it trail off with a “hmmm…” and she put her number in, to be “friends.”
Later in the night, we’re all playing card games and I’m using the opportunity to deep dive when I can even though she’s having none of it—she really didn’t want to talk to me. It turns out she’s quite clumsy, so I made fun of her (laughing or pointing it out) whenever she did something clumsy. Through hanging out in the group, she gradually became more curious about me by asking me questions about what I do, as well as my interests, and how I know everyone.
Another point to note: I’m in a state where I’m not drinking or smoking weed, yet this girl kept pushing me to do these things with her. I put up quite a struggle but over time gave leeway and followed through with her “demands” that I smoke and drink a little.
Nothing came out of that night—she stayed back to hang out with one of my other friends AAA while I and another guy friend BBB left around 5am from that place. We invited her to come to a house party the next night; she wanted to go to a party downtown instead.
Day 2: I text her next day:
At the time she texted back, I was at the house party with friends; I brought AAA and a girl CCC with me in the car. It’s 1:45 and things are winding down—guess who shows up last minute? Violet! Out of the blue. I immediately engage her (even though I was busy getting the number of another girl) and I wanted to go chill with her. Clearly her night wasn’t over yet…she invited the group to chill with her at her house and smoke, but when I was the only taker, she went to AAA and invited him to chill. AAA is very drunk and being kind of obnoxious. I convince the two of them that we should go chill at AAA’s house and I’m going to drop girl CCC back home. So Violet and AAA go in their car, and CCC and me in mine. On the ride CCC decides she wants to keep the night going, so we all wind up at AAA’s house. She’s again deep diving ME and I’m very, very slowly revealing information about myself to try to pique her curiosity about me. She also gave me quite a hard time about said interests and what not—who I am—that I seem preppy and dressed way too well. She still seems to be more into a very drunk and unruly AAA, and not me.
By the end of Day 2, I had left my interactions with this girl without the possibility of us ever getting physical. She had been giving me a really hard time, and even though she began to grow more and more curious about me, I also figured she’s not ready for anything sexual because of her recent breakup. She also seemed to be more interested in my friend than in me. I left with CCC to drop her home, leaving AAA and Violet at his house. I found out the next day that nothing happened.
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Day 3: Casual “date” with this girl—hanging out at a hookah lounge (Wednesday night - Xmas)
It’s Christmas Day, and I had been bored virtually the whole afternoon. I kept trying to find friends to hang out with, to no avail. At night, my family and I went out for dinner around 6:30, and I figured, ah, what the hell, might as well text some of the girls I’ve met this week. I texted three women and heard back from two, with Violet the most promising.
Side info: My logistics
I had just gone to dinner with my dad, his girlfriend, and my sister. Both dad and his gf were going home to hang out, and sister’s sleeping in the spare room, leaving me on the couch. Very bad logistics for just proposing she come hang out with me and watch tv or something.
2150: She shows up (I’m already there with friends) and pretty much immediately starts giving me shit: I dress like a Harvard Law Grad (because I'm wearing a yellow polo), and she doesn't want to be interrogated tonight, she just wants to chill (because I started asking deep dive questions). She was the only girl over there at the time, and thus naturally got the attention of nearly every other guy at this place. They all started talking and hitting on her for the next hour and a half, while she’s working through their attempts to showcase value (I do this, I work here, I work out here, etc etc) and she’s also chilling and getting to know people. I hung back and just chilled, not really engaging her but also leading her in subtle ways—suggesting we all play cards and setting up the games, bringing her with me to play a game called Karem and showing her how it’s done while she’s my partner in the game.
It’s hard to explain this, but every guy at our table was hitting on her on some way—trying to get to know her better, asking if she goes to the gym, what she does and where she works. They were all trying to have a good time, but she was following me around (I was leading: “hey, let’s play karem,” or “why don’t we try this card game?”) and on some levels she was also offended by them when they tried to guess her ethnicity and failed miserably, bunching up a whole series of countries as one where everyone looks the same. This was good conversation fodder for later—she worked in food service and the same thing happened there, and she hated it.
When they left, we sat and played more cards. Somehow the subject of porn came up (she said “I used my Nexus 7 to watch porn,” to which I asked about why she watches it), and I started to share my opinion on it. This turned the conversation to a more sexual tone—what exactly is sexuality, how do people define it, and what turns people on? I told her—why should people watch porn when it only distracts you from the real thing? She started to probe into me—am I a guy that gets around? I laughed and told her that everybody likes to have fun…doesn’t she? I told her that everyone has a one night stand, and asked her if she’s that kind of girl. Evidently I see her as a wild girl, when she’s really “not.”
Our conversation turned into a game soon enough—she kept saying that she can see right through me and what I’m trying to do—get with her and get in her pants. Then she said she had noticed a girl in the lounge that was eyeing me, and she thinks she’s cute and I should go talk to her. I declined a bunch of times for various reasons—I like spending time with you and I don’t care about her, I think you’re just trying to watch me fail, what in the world are you going to do while I’m sitting there for fifteen minutes getting her number? She asked me if I get a lot of numbers, and I told her it’s pretty easy. She asked me how many times I get rejected (“BE HONEST! I can see right through you.”) and when I told her that I get rejected 3 out of 10 numbers (pretty consistent for me lately), she told me that it’s bullshit. That I’m too chickenshit to go talk to this girl in front of her. We made a deal—I’d go talk to her before either they left or we left. I told her that she’d have to do something equally probing if I succeed.
Soon enough, this group of three girls started to get up to leave, and she told me to go. I did—I went and told this random girl that she has the most striking red dress I’d seen all night, and that we should hang out because I want to get to know her better. All standard shit now. She said she’s seeing someone—I replied, “cool,” and proceeded like nothing happened. I got the number, and then I showed it to Violet. In return I picked a guy in the room with a beard and told her she has to go feel it—I demonstrated by touching her face casually as to how she should do it. She did it later.
Then she said this <my replies>: “Are you going to text that girl? <Maybe, we’ll see>…oh, you mean it depends on what happens tonight? <what do you mean?>…It depends on whether you and I get together and do something tonight <haha…I don’t think the two of us getting together has anything to do with what I do with that other girl…why would it?>…Because if you’re with me you have no reason to contact her <Well, I think we, and my contact with her, are totally independent of each other, so who knows what I’ll do>.”
I swear, multiple times she said she could see through my “game,” and my motives, and that I’m being dishonest to her in some way. I didn’t really react to anything, just calmly continued everything in conversation. But then she kept asking what it is that I said to the girl whom I got a number from—I told her word for word, and had her do the same with her bearded friend.
Through the course of the night we talked about a lot of stuff—traveling, her work at a restaurant and why it was terrible, more talk on sex, on how she’s open minded and if I’m open minded and how, how I game people, discussions on depression and therapy, spirituality…a lot of her angle to me was just giving me tons and tons of shit. I really didn’t think I was going home with her, but then I proposed we play two more games of Karem and get out of there to get McDonalds. We want to hang out somewhere but logistically neither of us can.
She noted that I seem really serious, and then said she doesn't like serious guys because she's serious herself, only gets along instead with less serious types. I asked her what she thinks of me, and her response: shy, but not really shy at all at the same time, calm, patient, and quirky.
0145: Leave for her house to pick up weed. She left her car at the hookah place so now I’m driving.
0215-0245: Stop in her neighborhood to smoke. Now we’re both high, but a part of me sensed that I had to make a sexual move. I suggested we try shotgunning our hits. She blurts out that this yet just another strategy to get in her pants, and I didn’t decline, I simply asked where she got that idea? She thinks this is another strategy to my game. So I manhandled her a little bit to blow smoke into her mouth and our lips meet. The next time I told her to show me how it’s done properly. After this I tried to move towards real kissing and escalation in the car, and she denied me. It got to the point of: 1. Let’s get McDonalds first, and 2. This is my neighborhood and I don’t feel comfortable doing anything here. When I’m high my game crumbles, so next I would be facing a few hours of intense LMR.
0300: McDonalds stop. Get it and we go drive to a neighborhood to chill. She’s getting really paranoid that people are going to watch. I’m trying to put my arm around her and touch her and she’s snapping back at me to stop, that anyone could show up. She’s quite paranoid. I offer her massages, and try to go for it but she refuses and is getting really, really snappy at me to stop being so persistent. I’m high and I really want this to happen, it’s like I’m forcing it actually. She asks what I like about her and why I even bothered to get her number—I tell her I found her features striking and that when I heard her talk I saw common interests that sounded alluring and appealing. She thinks this is all bullshit, all part of my game, and I strike back and say I actually think she’s the one trying to seduce me, as I’ve been driving her around and hanging out all night. I keep trying to go for a massage and putting my arm around her, and it definitely made her really uncomfortable. I tell her I give good massages, and she doesn’t believe it; as I try to go for them again she suggests going somewhere more comfortable, and NOT the back seat. I tell her we can go hang out at my place, but only if she behaves and she’s quiet. She accuses me of taking advantage of her when she’s vulnerable and out of a relationship/broken up.
0330: Drive to my house, park in front, smoke some more. She’s very paranoid. I try to initiate more physical contact but am totally blown back, and angrily too. When I keep persisting she decides it’s time to talk about things, and we kind of face each other in the car and have a little heart to heart. Her boyfriend apparently dumped her because she was under alcohol influence and had a threesome with her best friend and that girl’s boyfriend, which has caused a huge falling out with that friend, and also caused the break-up. It was a very intense ten minute explanation, but I tell her I can tell she looks really stressed and can empathize. I then also share that I’m newly single and not looking for anything serious, that it made me realize there’s a lot I need to work through in my life. We continue talking about such topics, and she’s still drilling me about my game and why I’m interested in her. She also admires my calmness, and tells me that she's both really fussy, and likes to be very difficult with men to determine how strong they are, and that I've actually made it really far. I then give her a quick massage, and she accepts on the condition that she gets to choose if it goes further. I give her a massage for two minutes and she immediately and enthusiastically says “let’s go inside.”
0400: Sit on the couch, we both have to be really quiet because my sister is awake in a neighboring bedroom, and my dad asleep in the other bedroom. Start by having her take off her winter coat clothes. She’s giving me crazy LMR now because I’m still touching her intently, and she’s still backing off aggressively, yet doesn’t want to leave the place—she just wants physical space in between us. I tell her that I can’t control myself, and I remind her that I warned her earlier in the car that I wouldn’t be able to. She declares that we’re not having sex tonight, no matter what, so I should just quit and stop trying, because it isn’t happening. So she’s sitting on the couch facing me with her knees on it, and I’m facing straight ahead perpendicular to her. At some random moment when she was talking about something mundane and serious, I just went for it—I got up and went for the kiss kill. It worked! It worked and she was mesmerized for five minutes, before her defenses went right back up. She pretty much pushed me off and warned me not to do that again. So I waited five minutes of more mundane convo before going for the exact same thing, and this time it worked but not as effectively. I then say it’s time for a massage, and have her lie down on the couch. I take liberty to give her a good massage but also explore her body—ass, the edges of her tits, her hair and neck—and then I lie on top of her back and go for biting and very sensual mouthplay on her neck and ears. She remarked that it would make too much noise—so I suggested that we jump in the shower.
0430: This was going really, really well. She wanted sex, and she wanted it in the shower. That’s really hot, and when I saw her naked I was awed. Really sexy girl, the look that I really like. Everything’s going well in the shower and we’re having fun playing with our bodies, and she moved to give me a nice BJ, and then after that when I went for mounting her doggy style and putting on a condom, I lost my erection. She FLIPPED out when this happened, and basically shut off the shower and pushed me off her, and started to become extremely, extremely defensive. I couldn’t get even a little close to her, she would push me away. I, on the other hand, felt strong pressure to recover and in that way became more aggressive in pursuing her. She said she felt cornered, and that my breathing and eye contact, and intentions, were very intense and made her uncomfortable. I was utterly shocked, and yet wholly embarrassed and drowned in failure. I wouldn’t recover from this that night, I felt like my head exploded in anxiety and depression simultaneously. We eventually talked it over—she saw that I had a panic attack and then immediately her defenses went up, that the way I was handling her was scary and made her feel out of control and being taken without mutual interest. We gathered clothes and put them on—she now wanted to leave, immediately. I went with the plan and we sat for a bit on the couch while she tried to explain to me that she just wants to be friends. I didn’t have any of it, and continued to make some advances gently. I succeeded with another kiss at one point—when I kissed her, her entire demeanor changed and she went into a trance, until she forced a break and continued to put up LMR. On some level she wanted to hang out more, and suggested another McDonalds trip for soda this time. When we walked out she grabbed my hand like we’re a couple as we walked to the car.
0530: McDonalds run 2; she also realizes that she can’t see enough to drive and now wants to either be dropped off or sleep on my couch. We choose the latter. I try talking over with her what happened—that I panicked because I’m complicated in that moment, and it takes me a little time to get used to a new partner. I felt I came off as being very clingy, unconfident, and kind of apologetic. I tried to ask her questions to instill an idea that she had a good time—did she have fun tonight? What was the most fun? What about that shower adventure—was that fun? Not the best moment, but I was legit afraid I wouldn’t see her again. Not abundance mentality. My goal was to convey good feelings about tonight, but it was forced and contrived. Evidently she also notes "Ozzo, you're a mac. I mean...you really know how to hit on girls..." Man, if she knew the truth; hearing this didn't help because I still didn't give her sex. We eventually move from McDonald’s to my house. We chill in front of my house for a little bit—she’s totally paranoid. I tell her she can sleep on my couch till the sun rises.
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Day 4: The next morning
0630: I brought her back to my place to sleep on the couch. I was going to sleep with her, since there’s only one couch to sleep on. Then out of the blue, as she’s lying down and I’m standing, my dad walks out and tells us that he has to start working in that room. I told him that my friend got too drunk and I offered her a place to sleep while she sobers up. He then OFFERS US HIS ROOM TO SLEEP IN! Wow, big win, and very cool, dad! Now we move to that room and we’re sleeping together in the same bed. I strip down to my underwear and her to just leggings and a shirt, and we face-spoon each other as I run my hands through her body and she passes out fairly quick. I didn’t sleep for another two hours as I continued to feel her up as much as I can, even though she was like a log. Some part of me felt like I’d never see this girl again.
She has a really nice body, almost exactly the kind I really, really like. Skinny and 5’6” with strong toned legs, a firm ass, and perky tits. Soft skin overall fairly petite and a body I can contort myself around (and ultimately dominate and throw around when fucking). I didn’t get to take a chance with that last part.
1030: We woke up and she started to put up more LMR again. She felt my penis and I wasn’t fully hard. I don’t know what happens to me, when I get really anxious all my body sexuality stops functioning, and even though most mornings I have really strong wood, when a girl’s in the picture I psych myself out and this doesn’t happen.
She started to give another reason why we couldn’t fuck—she’s a squirter, and she’d make a mess on my dad’s bed. I told her that it sounds hot, and over time I continued to cuddle up with her and then fingered her clit with my hand. She had her legs wrapped really tightly preventing an optimal angle, but after twenty minutes of persistence she gave leeway and I got a finger inside and stroked gently. I could tell she wasn’t really all that horny, but it moved towards us taking off our clothes and getting into position for the adapted missionary. She gave me a handjob and I was hard as a rock…until I went for the condom and started putting it on. I freaked out again and had a panic attack, and lost it while trying to insert into her.
Then came a second strong wave of auto-rejection—she pushed me off her and accused me of freaking her out and being way too intense and adamant that we fuck. And I again pushed but only to receive a very cold and closed off response. She tells me that I had another panic attack and that it’s making her uncomfortable when I push so hard and that happens. Fuck. Not much I can do.
She starts getting her clothes on, but we remain a little frisky—her grabbing my ass and abs, and me doing the same right back. I tell her that we should go get breakfast. On the way to my car outside my place, I was holding her hand like we’re a couple, and she asked me why I’m doing that. I tell her it’s my instinct, and that I think we have a bond of some kind. We sit on the bed next to each other and propose breakfast.
1200: Got coffee and bagels at Dunkin Donuts; I paid and told her she can get the next time. Over breakfast we’re talking more about the experience and what we’re looking for—she reveals that she doesn’t feel comfortable kissing as that reminds her of her ex. I tell her that she has a really sexy body, that I really liked exploring it. She finds my phrasing cheesy, and I tell her that yeah, I’m a cheesy, complicated guy with a lot of unresolved issues, but I am also happy that she pointed them out. She also noted that I’m extremely patient and calm, yet also that I never give up and that I'm really stubborn and insistent when it comes to getting in her pants.
After breakfast, I drove her back to her car. We talked about what we both want and are looking for. I said that I liked hanging out with her, and that I think her and I get along pretty well. She told me she has this impression that I like her as something more than just friends (implying that I want to date her), and also mentioned that if I was just looking for sex and nothing else she’d be much more comfortable with it than how I framed it—that I “like” her and hanging out together. I used this opportunity to tell her, very directly, that I think she has the wrong impression of me—while I really like hanging out with her and think she’s sexy, I’m not looking to date anyone and really like being single. I told her that I’m not really in the place for anything committed, and I’m looking for friends with fun on the side, but wouldn’t be just friends and nothing else. She was reassured to hear that I didn’t want to date her outright (though slightly skeptical) and I tried my best to hammer this in by asking her if she’ a jealous type. She began telling me that she’s cool with being physical but wants freedom and to hang out with others; I replied that I hope this isn’t some double standard and that she shouldn’t be a jealous type, because that never works out well for anyone. When she agreed, then I said “great! It sounds like we’re on the same page, then, yeah?” and she nodded.
1330: More small talk till we got back to her car, and the parting of ways was interesting. I guess after all this I was pretty disappointed and let down at myself, and she could read me like a book and said I shouldn’t be so strung up over this. I asked her if she had a good time (again!) and she said she did (again), and we also talked about hanging out one more time before I leave Sunday or Monday. I have to text her and see when she can hang out; I suggested a movie at my place. We closed-lips kissed (pecks) a few times before she went on her way.
She’s been texting me for part of the evening because she left her necklace at my place, and I offered to give it back next time, but she wants it today. Should I give it back? Will that close me off from getting with her again? I called her later to come by and hang out, she responded and said she'll think about it and see <I said back: "do whatever you want, either way is cool">. Maybe too soon.
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Anyway, I wonder where this is going. Judging by when this has happened in the past, and what GC says, I will likely never see her again, right? I mean, twice she wanted to fuck me, and twice I freaked out, before I could even really show her what I’m capable of, followed with massive auto-rejection. And even though we verbally agreed to be friends with some fun, given where she is mentally, and what her new perception of me is, do you think it’s more likely I’ll never see her again? How can I maximize the odds of turning this into a NSA FB? How should I treat contact with her, and treat her in general so that I don’t give the impression of wanting something serious, yet also maintaining this as a sexual arrangement?
What do you guys think?
One thing that helps is that I’m only in town once or twice a month.
I think I’m going to make a separate post in the forums about what I need to do to work through these panic attacks.
This was an interesting little hook-up, and embarrassing fuck-up. The former portion because I was totally not expecting this to happen with this girl based on how she’d been generally interacting with me (cold and uninterested after her recent breakup) and there was CRAZY LMR and persistence involved; the latter because sex was eventually on the table and I had a panic attack—twice! Both of these really freaked her out sending her into auto-rejection, and freaked me out as well because I instilled two moments of ED. I was successfully able to navigate around LMR multiple times, and primed her for penetration twice, yet also fucked it all up myself because I panicked internally RIGHT when I put the condom on both times and went soft. This is a much bigger inner issue that I’ll need to resolve—it happens to me a lot (any thoughts on dealing with this, guys?).
I’d say only parts of this follow the GirlsChase process—I definitely didn’t meet her in cold approach, instead through social circle. I took a very long time to get intimate with her—with some reasons. On the flipside, when I got her alone with me I tried to follow GC as much as I could, especially with conveying myself as a sexual and open minded man with no long term interest in her.
Logistically this was also a challenge, as both of us were living in houses with family there. We eventually wound up back at my place where I only had a couch and shower available.
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Day 1 & 2: Meeting this girl (Friday night, Saturday night)
Day 1: I went out to downtown with my wingman buddy to meet girls, but totally flopped. I just was not at all in the right mood, and with every girl I talked to, my vibe was off and I couldn’t talk to them. I gave in to it an hour later and instead went to my friend’s place to chill close to my house. There were five of us there, including this girl “Violet.”
I didn’t try to engage her too much: she was the token female in the group, the rest guys, and while I initially found her very cute, I didn’t know anything about her or if she came with one of the guys. She had very striking features—hair parted sideways with a very strong violet streak at the front masking half her face, and the right side of her head with short hair (formerly shaved probably)—and also with a triad of very unique ear piercings. Her vibe was tomboyish—seemed calm and collected yet with a bit of an edge to her personality, like she’s been through a bit of trauma before and overcome from it. She seemed like an artsy-creative type, which is a type of girl I feel attracted to but usually find it hard to close with because I don’t present myself in that way despite having those interests. It turned out her boyfriend of a year and a half had just broken up with her earlier that night, and she was there to unwind and chill with friends—smoking weed, drinking beer, talking life.
As she revealed over time to the group, we had quite a number of core interests in unison—same taste in music, interest in travel and seeing other cultures, an open-mindedness about living life, the principles of karma and being good to people, and generally she seemed like a more in control, advanced version of me. She seemed extroverted, but I’d find out later on that she considers herself quite the shy introvert and just presents a different side around friends.
Anyway, I got high too with everyone else, putting me in a rock-stoned state and really unable to function well as far as pickup goes. We all went to a hookah lounge nearby where we hung out from about 1:30am till 4:15am—four of us as one of the guys left. She seems to like smoking.
At the lounge, I’m sitting to her right side around a circular table, and when there’s a momentary break in group convo and my two guy friends are talking to each other, I go for the number: “Hey, Violet…you seem like cool people. I mean, you have really alluring features, and I’d like to get to know you better. What say you and I grab coffee sometime?” She basically rejected me: “Ummm….I don’t know, I just broke up dude, and I’m really not looking for anything like that. We can be friends.” In my high state of mind, I didn’t know how to respond. I just handed her my phone and let it trail off with a “hmmm…” and she put her number in, to be “friends.”
Later in the night, we’re all playing card games and I’m using the opportunity to deep dive when I can even though she’s having none of it—she really didn’t want to talk to me. It turns out she’s quite clumsy, so I made fun of her (laughing or pointing it out) whenever she did something clumsy. Through hanging out in the group, she gradually became more curious about me by asking me questions about what I do, as well as my interests, and how I know everyone.
Another point to note: I’m in a state where I’m not drinking or smoking weed, yet this girl kept pushing me to do these things with her. I put up quite a struggle but over time gave leeway and followed through with her “demands” that I smoke and drink a little.
Nothing came out of that night—she stayed back to hang out with one of my other friends AAA while I and another guy friend BBB left around 5am from that place. We invited her to come to a house party the next night; she wanted to go to a party downtown instead.
Day 2: I text her next day:
At the time she texted back, I was at the house party with friends; I brought AAA and a girl CCC with me in the car. It’s 1:45 and things are winding down—guess who shows up last minute? Violet! Out of the blue. I immediately engage her (even though I was busy getting the number of another girl) and I wanted to go chill with her. Clearly her night wasn’t over yet…she invited the group to chill with her at her house and smoke, but when I was the only taker, she went to AAA and invited him to chill. AAA is very drunk and being kind of obnoxious. I convince the two of them that we should go chill at AAA’s house and I’m going to drop girl CCC back home. So Violet and AAA go in their car, and CCC and me in mine. On the ride CCC decides she wants to keep the night going, so we all wind up at AAA’s house. She’s again deep diving ME and I’m very, very slowly revealing information about myself to try to pique her curiosity about me. She also gave me quite a hard time about said interests and what not—who I am—that I seem preppy and dressed way too well. She still seems to be more into a very drunk and unruly AAA, and not me.
By the end of Day 2, I had left my interactions with this girl without the possibility of us ever getting physical. She had been giving me a really hard time, and even though she began to grow more and more curious about me, I also figured she’s not ready for anything sexual because of her recent breakup. She also seemed to be more interested in my friend than in me. I left with CCC to drop her home, leaving AAA and Violet at his house. I found out the next day that nothing happened.
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Day 3: Casual “date” with this girl—hanging out at a hookah lounge (Wednesday night - Xmas)
It’s Christmas Day, and I had been bored virtually the whole afternoon. I kept trying to find friends to hang out with, to no avail. At night, my family and I went out for dinner around 6:30, and I figured, ah, what the hell, might as well text some of the girls I’ve met this week. I texted three women and heard back from two, with Violet the most promising.
Side info: My logistics
I had just gone to dinner with my dad, his girlfriend, and my sister. Both dad and his gf were going home to hang out, and sister’s sleeping in the spare room, leaving me on the couch. Very bad logistics for just proposing she come hang out with me and watch tv or something.
2150: She shows up (I’m already there with friends) and pretty much immediately starts giving me shit: I dress like a Harvard Law Grad (because I'm wearing a yellow polo), and she doesn't want to be interrogated tonight, she just wants to chill (because I started asking deep dive questions). She was the only girl over there at the time, and thus naturally got the attention of nearly every other guy at this place. They all started talking and hitting on her for the next hour and a half, while she’s working through their attempts to showcase value (I do this, I work here, I work out here, etc etc) and she’s also chilling and getting to know people. I hung back and just chilled, not really engaging her but also leading her in subtle ways—suggesting we all play cards and setting up the games, bringing her with me to play a game called Karem and showing her how it’s done while she’s my partner in the game.
It’s hard to explain this, but every guy at our table was hitting on her on some way—trying to get to know her better, asking if she goes to the gym, what she does and where she works. They were all trying to have a good time, but she was following me around (I was leading: “hey, let’s play karem,” or “why don’t we try this card game?”) and on some levels she was also offended by them when they tried to guess her ethnicity and failed miserably, bunching up a whole series of countries as one where everyone looks the same. This was good conversation fodder for later—she worked in food service and the same thing happened there, and she hated it.
When they left, we sat and played more cards. Somehow the subject of porn came up (she said “I used my Nexus 7 to watch porn,” to which I asked about why she watches it), and I started to share my opinion on it. This turned the conversation to a more sexual tone—what exactly is sexuality, how do people define it, and what turns people on? I told her—why should people watch porn when it only distracts you from the real thing? She started to probe into me—am I a guy that gets around? I laughed and told her that everybody likes to have fun…doesn’t she? I told her that everyone has a one night stand, and asked her if she’s that kind of girl. Evidently I see her as a wild girl, when she’s really “not.”
Our conversation turned into a game soon enough—she kept saying that she can see right through me and what I’m trying to do—get with her and get in her pants. Then she said she had noticed a girl in the lounge that was eyeing me, and she thinks she’s cute and I should go talk to her. I declined a bunch of times for various reasons—I like spending time with you and I don’t care about her, I think you’re just trying to watch me fail, what in the world are you going to do while I’m sitting there for fifteen minutes getting her number? She asked me if I get a lot of numbers, and I told her it’s pretty easy. She asked me how many times I get rejected (“BE HONEST! I can see right through you.”) and when I told her that I get rejected 3 out of 10 numbers (pretty consistent for me lately), she told me that it’s bullshit. That I’m too chickenshit to go talk to this girl in front of her. We made a deal—I’d go talk to her before either they left or we left. I told her that she’d have to do something equally probing if I succeed.
Soon enough, this group of three girls started to get up to leave, and she told me to go. I did—I went and told this random girl that she has the most striking red dress I’d seen all night, and that we should hang out because I want to get to know her better. All standard shit now. She said she’s seeing someone—I replied, “cool,” and proceeded like nothing happened. I got the number, and then I showed it to Violet. In return I picked a guy in the room with a beard and told her she has to go feel it—I demonstrated by touching her face casually as to how she should do it. She did it later.
Then she said this <my replies>: “Are you going to text that girl? <Maybe, we’ll see>…oh, you mean it depends on what happens tonight? <what do you mean?>…It depends on whether you and I get together and do something tonight <haha…I don’t think the two of us getting together has anything to do with what I do with that other girl…why would it?>…Because if you’re with me you have no reason to contact her <Well, I think we, and my contact with her, are totally independent of each other, so who knows what I’ll do>.”
I swear, multiple times she said she could see through my “game,” and my motives, and that I’m being dishonest to her in some way. I didn’t really react to anything, just calmly continued everything in conversation. But then she kept asking what it is that I said to the girl whom I got a number from—I told her word for word, and had her do the same with her bearded friend.
Through the course of the night we talked about a lot of stuff—traveling, her work at a restaurant and why it was terrible, more talk on sex, on how she’s open minded and if I’m open minded and how, how I game people, discussions on depression and therapy, spirituality…a lot of her angle to me was just giving me tons and tons of shit. I really didn’t think I was going home with her, but then I proposed we play two more games of Karem and get out of there to get McDonalds. We want to hang out somewhere but logistically neither of us can.
She noted that I seem really serious, and then said she doesn't like serious guys because she's serious herself, only gets along instead with less serious types. I asked her what she thinks of me, and her response: shy, but not really shy at all at the same time, calm, patient, and quirky.
0145: Leave for her house to pick up weed. She left her car at the hookah place so now I’m driving.
0215-0245: Stop in her neighborhood to smoke. Now we’re both high, but a part of me sensed that I had to make a sexual move. I suggested we try shotgunning our hits. She blurts out that this yet just another strategy to get in her pants, and I didn’t decline, I simply asked where she got that idea? She thinks this is another strategy to my game. So I manhandled her a little bit to blow smoke into her mouth and our lips meet. The next time I told her to show me how it’s done properly. After this I tried to move towards real kissing and escalation in the car, and she denied me. It got to the point of: 1. Let’s get McDonalds first, and 2. This is my neighborhood and I don’t feel comfortable doing anything here. When I’m high my game crumbles, so next I would be facing a few hours of intense LMR.
0300: McDonalds stop. Get it and we go drive to a neighborhood to chill. She’s getting really paranoid that people are going to watch. I’m trying to put my arm around her and touch her and she’s snapping back at me to stop, that anyone could show up. She’s quite paranoid. I offer her massages, and try to go for it but she refuses and is getting really, really snappy at me to stop being so persistent. I’m high and I really want this to happen, it’s like I’m forcing it actually. She asks what I like about her and why I even bothered to get her number—I tell her I found her features striking and that when I heard her talk I saw common interests that sounded alluring and appealing. She thinks this is all bullshit, all part of my game, and I strike back and say I actually think she’s the one trying to seduce me, as I’ve been driving her around and hanging out all night. I keep trying to go for a massage and putting my arm around her, and it definitely made her really uncomfortable. I tell her I give good massages, and she doesn’t believe it; as I try to go for them again she suggests going somewhere more comfortable, and NOT the back seat. I tell her we can go hang out at my place, but only if she behaves and she’s quiet. She accuses me of taking advantage of her when she’s vulnerable and out of a relationship/broken up.
0330: Drive to my house, park in front, smoke some more. She’s very paranoid. I try to initiate more physical contact but am totally blown back, and angrily too. When I keep persisting she decides it’s time to talk about things, and we kind of face each other in the car and have a little heart to heart. Her boyfriend apparently dumped her because she was under alcohol influence and had a threesome with her best friend and that girl’s boyfriend, which has caused a huge falling out with that friend, and also caused the break-up. It was a very intense ten minute explanation, but I tell her I can tell she looks really stressed and can empathize. I then also share that I’m newly single and not looking for anything serious, that it made me realize there’s a lot I need to work through in my life. We continue talking about such topics, and she’s still drilling me about my game and why I’m interested in her. She also admires my calmness, and tells me that she's both really fussy, and likes to be very difficult with men to determine how strong they are, and that I've actually made it really far. I then give her a quick massage, and she accepts on the condition that she gets to choose if it goes further. I give her a massage for two minutes and she immediately and enthusiastically says “let’s go inside.”
0400: Sit on the couch, we both have to be really quiet because my sister is awake in a neighboring bedroom, and my dad asleep in the other bedroom. Start by having her take off her winter coat clothes. She’s giving me crazy LMR now because I’m still touching her intently, and she’s still backing off aggressively, yet doesn’t want to leave the place—she just wants physical space in between us. I tell her that I can’t control myself, and I remind her that I warned her earlier in the car that I wouldn’t be able to. She declares that we’re not having sex tonight, no matter what, so I should just quit and stop trying, because it isn’t happening. So she’s sitting on the couch facing me with her knees on it, and I’m facing straight ahead perpendicular to her. At some random moment when she was talking about something mundane and serious, I just went for it—I got up and went for the kiss kill. It worked! It worked and she was mesmerized for five minutes, before her defenses went right back up. She pretty much pushed me off and warned me not to do that again. So I waited five minutes of more mundane convo before going for the exact same thing, and this time it worked but not as effectively. I then say it’s time for a massage, and have her lie down on the couch. I take liberty to give her a good massage but also explore her body—ass, the edges of her tits, her hair and neck—and then I lie on top of her back and go for biting and very sensual mouthplay on her neck and ears. She remarked that it would make too much noise—so I suggested that we jump in the shower.
0430: This was going really, really well. She wanted sex, and she wanted it in the shower. That’s really hot, and when I saw her naked I was awed. Really sexy girl, the look that I really like. Everything’s going well in the shower and we’re having fun playing with our bodies, and she moved to give me a nice BJ, and then after that when I went for mounting her doggy style and putting on a condom, I lost my erection. She FLIPPED out when this happened, and basically shut off the shower and pushed me off her, and started to become extremely, extremely defensive. I couldn’t get even a little close to her, she would push me away. I, on the other hand, felt strong pressure to recover and in that way became more aggressive in pursuing her. She said she felt cornered, and that my breathing and eye contact, and intentions, were very intense and made her uncomfortable. I was utterly shocked, and yet wholly embarrassed and drowned in failure. I wouldn’t recover from this that night, I felt like my head exploded in anxiety and depression simultaneously. We eventually talked it over—she saw that I had a panic attack and then immediately her defenses went up, that the way I was handling her was scary and made her feel out of control and being taken without mutual interest. We gathered clothes and put them on—she now wanted to leave, immediately. I went with the plan and we sat for a bit on the couch while she tried to explain to me that she just wants to be friends. I didn’t have any of it, and continued to make some advances gently. I succeeded with another kiss at one point—when I kissed her, her entire demeanor changed and she went into a trance, until she forced a break and continued to put up LMR. On some level she wanted to hang out more, and suggested another McDonalds trip for soda this time. When we walked out she grabbed my hand like we’re a couple as we walked to the car.
0530: McDonalds run 2; she also realizes that she can’t see enough to drive and now wants to either be dropped off or sleep on my couch. We choose the latter. I try talking over with her what happened—that I panicked because I’m complicated in that moment, and it takes me a little time to get used to a new partner. I felt I came off as being very clingy, unconfident, and kind of apologetic. I tried to ask her questions to instill an idea that she had a good time—did she have fun tonight? What was the most fun? What about that shower adventure—was that fun? Not the best moment, but I was legit afraid I wouldn’t see her again. Not abundance mentality. My goal was to convey good feelings about tonight, but it was forced and contrived. Evidently she also notes "Ozzo, you're a mac. I mean...you really know how to hit on girls..." Man, if she knew the truth; hearing this didn't help because I still didn't give her sex. We eventually move from McDonald’s to my house. We chill in front of my house for a little bit—she’s totally paranoid. I tell her she can sleep on my couch till the sun rises.
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Day 4: The next morning
0630: I brought her back to my place to sleep on the couch. I was going to sleep with her, since there’s only one couch to sleep on. Then out of the blue, as she’s lying down and I’m standing, my dad walks out and tells us that he has to start working in that room. I told him that my friend got too drunk and I offered her a place to sleep while she sobers up. He then OFFERS US HIS ROOM TO SLEEP IN! Wow, big win, and very cool, dad! Now we move to that room and we’re sleeping together in the same bed. I strip down to my underwear and her to just leggings and a shirt, and we face-spoon each other as I run my hands through her body and she passes out fairly quick. I didn’t sleep for another two hours as I continued to feel her up as much as I can, even though she was like a log. Some part of me felt like I’d never see this girl again.
She has a really nice body, almost exactly the kind I really, really like. Skinny and 5’6” with strong toned legs, a firm ass, and perky tits. Soft skin overall fairly petite and a body I can contort myself around (and ultimately dominate and throw around when fucking). I didn’t get to take a chance with that last part.
1030: We woke up and she started to put up more LMR again. She felt my penis and I wasn’t fully hard. I don’t know what happens to me, when I get really anxious all my body sexuality stops functioning, and even though most mornings I have really strong wood, when a girl’s in the picture I psych myself out and this doesn’t happen.
She started to give another reason why we couldn’t fuck—she’s a squirter, and she’d make a mess on my dad’s bed. I told her that it sounds hot, and over time I continued to cuddle up with her and then fingered her clit with my hand. She had her legs wrapped really tightly preventing an optimal angle, but after twenty minutes of persistence she gave leeway and I got a finger inside and stroked gently. I could tell she wasn’t really all that horny, but it moved towards us taking off our clothes and getting into position for the adapted missionary. She gave me a handjob and I was hard as a rock…until I went for the condom and started putting it on. I freaked out again and had a panic attack, and lost it while trying to insert into her.
Then came a second strong wave of auto-rejection—she pushed me off her and accused me of freaking her out and being way too intense and adamant that we fuck. And I again pushed but only to receive a very cold and closed off response. She tells me that I had another panic attack and that it’s making her uncomfortable when I push so hard and that happens. Fuck. Not much I can do.
She starts getting her clothes on, but we remain a little frisky—her grabbing my ass and abs, and me doing the same right back. I tell her that we should go get breakfast. On the way to my car outside my place, I was holding her hand like we’re a couple, and she asked me why I’m doing that. I tell her it’s my instinct, and that I think we have a bond of some kind. We sit on the bed next to each other and propose breakfast.
1200: Got coffee and bagels at Dunkin Donuts; I paid and told her she can get the next time. Over breakfast we’re talking more about the experience and what we’re looking for—she reveals that she doesn’t feel comfortable kissing as that reminds her of her ex. I tell her that she has a really sexy body, that I really liked exploring it. She finds my phrasing cheesy, and I tell her that yeah, I’m a cheesy, complicated guy with a lot of unresolved issues, but I am also happy that she pointed them out. She also noted that I’m extremely patient and calm, yet also that I never give up and that I'm really stubborn and insistent when it comes to getting in her pants.
After breakfast, I drove her back to her car. We talked about what we both want and are looking for. I said that I liked hanging out with her, and that I think her and I get along pretty well. She told me she has this impression that I like her as something more than just friends (implying that I want to date her), and also mentioned that if I was just looking for sex and nothing else she’d be much more comfortable with it than how I framed it—that I “like” her and hanging out together. I used this opportunity to tell her, very directly, that I think she has the wrong impression of me—while I really like hanging out with her and think she’s sexy, I’m not looking to date anyone and really like being single. I told her that I’m not really in the place for anything committed, and I’m looking for friends with fun on the side, but wouldn’t be just friends and nothing else. She was reassured to hear that I didn’t want to date her outright (though slightly skeptical) and I tried my best to hammer this in by asking her if she’ a jealous type. She began telling me that she’s cool with being physical but wants freedom and to hang out with others; I replied that I hope this isn’t some double standard and that she shouldn’t be a jealous type, because that never works out well for anyone. When she agreed, then I said “great! It sounds like we’re on the same page, then, yeah?” and she nodded.
1330: More small talk till we got back to her car, and the parting of ways was interesting. I guess after all this I was pretty disappointed and let down at myself, and she could read me like a book and said I shouldn’t be so strung up over this. I asked her if she had a good time (again!) and she said she did (again), and we also talked about hanging out one more time before I leave Sunday or Monday. I have to text her and see when she can hang out; I suggested a movie at my place. We closed-lips kissed (pecks) a few times before she went on her way.
She’s been texting me for part of the evening because she left her necklace at my place, and I offered to give it back next time, but she wants it today. Should I give it back? Will that close me off from getting with her again? I called her later to come by and hang out, she responded and said she'll think about it and see <I said back: "do whatever you want, either way is cool">. Maybe too soon.
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Anyway, I wonder where this is going. Judging by when this has happened in the past, and what GC says, I will likely never see her again, right? I mean, twice she wanted to fuck me, and twice I freaked out, before I could even really show her what I’m capable of, followed with massive auto-rejection. And even though we verbally agreed to be friends with some fun, given where she is mentally, and what her new perception of me is, do you think it’s more likely I’ll never see her again? How can I maximize the odds of turning this into a NSA FB? How should I treat contact with her, and treat her in general so that I don’t give the impression of wanting something serious, yet also maintaining this as a sexual arrangement?
What do you guys think?
One thing that helps is that I’m only in town once or twice a month.
I think I’m going to make a separate post in the forums about what I need to do to work through these panic attacks.
