- Joined
- Dec 6, 2012
- Messages
- 1,458
{ } indicates thoughts and reflections to myself
< > indicates non-verbal things happening.
On Sunday I decided to do a field outing to practice approaches. I picked the mall on Sunday before it closed. I initially wanted to go for three hours, from 3pm till closing at 6, but my own internal fear prevented me from doing this. I finally sucked it up at 4:30pm and forced myself to go out till closing. I got there at 4:45, and told myself I wouldn’t leave till 6.
It turned out to be a great decision. While I didn’t hit my target of 8 women on this outing and only made it to 6, I did the best approach I’ve ever done to date.
In the mall, as I’m walking around with good fundamentals and a slick smile, I see this cute woman walking towards me but far in the distance. As I give her eye contact and hold the smile, she returns the same gaze, with sharp eye contact and a warm smile, right as she’s walking into a store to my right and to her left. Well, how about that.
So I walk in the store and she’s right there looking at some clothes. I approach to her left side, pre-open her by grazing her left upper arm with the back of my hand, and she looks my way before I look at her and meet her eyes.
Something about this girl is different, because she’s giving me the SAME type of strong eye contact that I’m giving her, and she’s very calm and confident as well. I spoke to her slowly and with a deep voice and a smile:
Me: “I was just walking by, and I HAD to tell you that you have the most beautiful hair I’ve seen all day! What’s your name?”
Her: “I’m [Vermont], what’s your name?”
Me: “I’m [Ozz], nice to meet you. So what brings you to the mall today?”
We talk briefly about what she’s doing here, which is getting her eyes done but looking around before her appointment. I ask her if she lives around here (she does) and where she’s originally from (Florida). When she asks me if I live here, I say that I also grew up in the area and I’m visiting my dad who lives close by. She asks me what I’m doing here at the mall, and I tell her that I’m going to go look at a few clothes for work [even though I don’t work at the moment, gotta give SOME story…], and then I proceed to ask her what she’s doing later.
Me: “Do you have any other plans this evening?”
Her: “I have work tomorrow, but I’m free this evening.”
Me: “Well, [Vermont], I think you’re really cute and I’d like to get to know you better. So how about we go grab a coffee or something when you finish up your appointment? What do you think about that?”
Her: “Yeah, I think I can do that, but I think Starbucks closes early today. Maybe we can go somewhere else. How about Brio, have you heard of that?” <YES!!! She is cooperating AND giving input! A very good start.>
Needless to say I had not heard about any of the places she suggested, but I had her put in her number and gave her mine as well, and we agreed to grabbing drinks after she finishes up her appointment. After some more small chatting about where to go because we can’t decide:
Me: “Ok, tell you what, I’m going to go to Banana Republic now, but how about you text me when you finish up and you’re ready to go, and I’ll meet you?”
Her: “That sounds great. I have to tell you though, I only have a little time because I have work tomorrow and there are things I have to get ready.”
Me: “Well…we’re all busy right? See you soon! ” {In retrospect, this was a great opportunity to throw in a sexual frame: “Yeah, we wouldn’t want to get into too much trouble tonight now would we ;-)?...” }
{Another note to self: if she’s already restricting her available time, perhaps it is more appropriate to move faster and set up something that isn’t slow and as time consuming as drinks?}
Side note: One of the girls working at this store saw this going down, and she made sure to throw out “Have a nice evening!” before I left while looking at me with a warmer than normal smile. Pretty sure I could have pulled her number too if I had tried a little later.
I went around and made some more approaches, but 6pm came around and I went to my car (and pulled yet another number on the walk there, woohoo!). Since I live close by I was heading home and texted her en route:
Me 1810: “Hi [Vermont], nice meeting you at the mall. Let me know when you’re on the way to Brio or Sbux and I’ll meet you there. –[Ozz]”
Her 1814: “Nice to meet you as well. I should arrive at Brio in 15 mins.”
Me 1817: “Sounds good” <And just like that I started heading over to this place before even getting home>
This insta-date meant that I would be putting everything I’ve learned and experienced thus far to the test. Between walking the mall and driving and meeting her here, I had no time to look at notes or last minute GC posts or the forum or anything! I have to do all this in my head, I thought. I guess that’s actually a good way to do it.
I’m waiting outside, and she walks up from the left about ten minutes after I get there.
Her: “Hi! Great to see you again.” <Hug>
Me: “Great to see you too! So what sorts of trouble have you gotten yourself into today?”
Her: “Haha, I never get myself into trouble!”
Me: “Mmhmm, a likely story indeed.” <Going through a revolving door now>
Her: “Did you get what you were looking for at the mall?”
Me: “Yeah, I just bought a pair of socks I liked. You went to get your eyes done, right? <Walking beside her towards the bar and looking right at her as she’s looking at me>
Her: “Yeah, I did.”
Me: “They look great!” {Probably need a better frame here i.e. “Glad you got those done especially for me ;-)” Thoughts?}
Me: “I’m glad you showed me this place, I didn’t even know about it.”
When we get there to order drinks, I tell her I'm taking a break and order water instead while she orders wine. I think I just found a unique loophole to avoid paying for a girl. But this is basically how our conversation starts, about drinks.
We move to sit, we’re sitting next to each other at the bar. Throughout this entire interaction her body language was extremely positive. I am not sure if this was intentional or not, because as I would soon learn she practices body language for her profession. One of the things I noticed different about this girl is that she was doing a lot of the same things to me as I was doing to her. Just like they teach you to have excellent fundamentals on GirlsChase, this woman was throwing back the SAME fundamentals right back at me! Maintaining eye contact, using good posture, keeping still and matching my body language and vocal tone. It was actually very fascinating to see and observe. Over the interaction I upped the level of my touching, doing it a few times on her legs, on her arms when making a point, and quite frequently held her hand like hers is a C cup and I’m dipping my fingers into it. I tried the hand interlock and while she didn’t pull away instantly, she didn’t close either. Very neutral here.
When we started talking about what I do, instead of asking me she actually offered to guess! Cool!!
Her: “You’re well dressed with very clean lines….you approached me and introduced yourself in the mall confidently, so you must be good with people….You’re very analytical and your thinking is organized…” <She kept going on, and with a few hints from me she actually guessed correctly. I am starting to think now that I am dealing with a very different breed of woman here!>
What we talked about:
- Her travel: she loves to travel. It’s maybe her favorite hobby. She’s been all over Europe and South America. We connected over this quite well, as I’ve been to Peru and so has she, and we shared quite a bit of conversation over experiencing this culture and everything it has to offer. We talked quite a bit about travel all across the world and where we aspire to be. This seemed to be a good hook.
- Her aspirations: high aspirations to achieve in life, including going to grad school and eventually working for either the UN or the World Bank to help third world countries and issues in those.
- In finance, deals with clients and is extremely busy.
- She’s from Florida, but has lived in Vermont and recently moved to this area a year ago. I asked her a lot about this, and she consequently also asked me a lot about where I've lived and what I do.
- Really enjoys adventure and trying out new experiences.
- She’s spiritually sounds and really believes in a greater purpose and making a bigger difference in the world. We connected quite a bit over this and how we believe in this same thing.
- TV shows: likes drama and suspense. I introduce her to the shows Breaking Bad and The Wire.
- She likes living the fast life, but also takes time for family and such.
- Has a very large family, she is one of 9, but they all get along and she’s the most grounded yet “causes trouble secretly”
- I had her laughing at times, but not so much that it took over the date.
Somewhere in there she comments very subtly that I’m asking interview questions. Good, this tells me that this is something I need to fix. We joke about that, but it’s still a major problem in the way I am running dates and at least it has been identified.
Tool's test:
Me: “You know, you’re a very interesting girl…”
Her: “Oh?”
Me: “I mean, you’re very smart, you’re funny and charming, but I feel that there’s something beneath the surface that you’re afraid to show. But you shouldn’t be…”
Her: …<We’re looking at each other and she has a deep gaze into me but says nothing and is speechless. I switch topics>
Pull attempt about an hour and a half in during a pause:
Me: “Well, I’m having a great time and I feel like the night’s too early to end, don’t you?”
Her: “I’m having a great time as well, but unfortunately I think my night is about to end. It’s getting late, I have work early tomorrow and a lot of things I need to take care of at home before I go to sleep.” <It’s only ~8:00pm>
Me: “Well, I have a pretty early morning myself, but why don’t we let the night continue for a little longer?” {In the future, just say “why don’t we let the night continue?” and ask her if she’s having a good time}
Her: “Unfortunately I can’t, but I would like to see you again when I’m more free.”
<Maybe one more back and forth on this but I forget exactly what she said>
Me: “Oh, so what’s your schedule looking like?”
I started to make the same mistake I made in my last date and start scheduling the next date on this one. I kept asking about her schedule and she clearly wasn’t sure about it yet, and we were looking at our phones trying to figure something out. She is on a business trip to NY Friday but may be free either Friday or Saturday. I realized I was making a huge mistake with this about halfway through and basically stopped her and said, “you know what, actually we don’t have to do this right now. We can figure out a day that works later.” I still think I ruined the intrigue in a way because I started doing this next date planning shit, but I am also glad I caught it in the process, rather than being blind to it. (Thank you T Vaunswa).
We’re talking about reconnecting next weekend and how we’re having a fairly good connection, and I threw this in there too (meant to be a sexual frame):
Me: “Well, maybe next time we meet we’ll *** have an even deeper connection…” <*** = where I deepened and really slowed down my voice with heavy eye contact while holding her hand such that hers is like a cup I am dipping my fingers in>
<short pause and blank deep stare from her>…<I think she didn’t know how to react, so I shifted topics instantly>
Me: “So tell me more about your experience in South America.” {I use the word “so” too much, fix this}
Our conversation continues, but it still feels too much like an interview.
Me: “So, what do you think of me?”
Her: “Hmm…well, I think you’re really interesting and you’re fun to talk to. You have a pretty good handle on things you want in life and in your heart, and only certain kinds of bold, confident men have the attitude to approach a stranger at the mall. But I also sense there’s something else beneath the surface that I’m not seeing.” <This is basically what I said earlier>
There was one moment in conversation where she blinked her eyes in very rapid succession while looking at me as I’m talking. What does this mean?
Over time I suggested we head out. She asked for the bill. The bill came, I offered to get it but she declined and paid for herself. I said we should get out of here.
Me: “You barely finished your wine!”
Her: “Yeah, I don’t drink a whole lot myself.”
I walked her out by guiding her by the small of her back. When we parted ways, it was very simple, and in some ways she led:
Her: “Are you parked in the garage?”
Me: “No, I’m parked that way” <We’re now facing each other, our lower bodies are connected below the waist, I’m holding her by the waist gently while she’s holding me with her hands at my elbows. Our upper bodies and faces are about ten inches apart, and I could see some hesitation on her face that she didn’t want to be kissed. I was keeping my head very still and looking deep in her eyes, while she was slightly nervous and made one miniscule motion of her head backwards. It’s hard to describe this but it seemed she was very nervous about being kissed and didn’t want that>
Me: “So I’ll see you next time…” <moved instead to kiss her on the cheek, which she accepted immediately> “Have a good night!”
Her: “You too!” <disconnect and we walk off in opposite directions>
----
My thoughts:
- Excellent approach and setting up the insta-date.
- I sensed a good rapport in our body language.
- Good response so far from touching and bodily contact, except for kissing and pushing intimacy (deferred)
- Not sure if she is legitimately busy or if this is just an excuse. I pushed for going home that night but also stopped when it didn’t seem feasible, and didn’t try again in case it would look desperate. Either way I didn’t move fast enough and deferred this.
- Weak pull attempt.
- I didn’t make enough sexual and chase frames?
- I conducted this date too much like an interview, which she also pointed out. I think this is good for learning because clearly it’s a major sticking point and something I need to start experimenting with to do differently. In other words, I’ve found a core problem in the way I run dates.
- I should have used a compliance test and tried her wine.
- Maybe I am running my dates too slow, and to break the sticking points and my plateau I have to move faster and try something riskier.
< > indicates non-verbal things happening.
On Sunday I decided to do a field outing to practice approaches. I picked the mall on Sunday before it closed. I initially wanted to go for three hours, from 3pm till closing at 6, but my own internal fear prevented me from doing this. I finally sucked it up at 4:30pm and forced myself to go out till closing. I got there at 4:45, and told myself I wouldn’t leave till 6.
It turned out to be a great decision. While I didn’t hit my target of 8 women on this outing and only made it to 6, I did the best approach I’ve ever done to date.
In the mall, as I’m walking around with good fundamentals and a slick smile, I see this cute woman walking towards me but far in the distance. As I give her eye contact and hold the smile, she returns the same gaze, with sharp eye contact and a warm smile, right as she’s walking into a store to my right and to her left. Well, how about that.
So I walk in the store and she’s right there looking at some clothes. I approach to her left side, pre-open her by grazing her left upper arm with the back of my hand, and she looks my way before I look at her and meet her eyes.
Something about this girl is different, because she’s giving me the SAME type of strong eye contact that I’m giving her, and she’s very calm and confident as well. I spoke to her slowly and with a deep voice and a smile:
Me: “I was just walking by, and I HAD to tell you that you have the most beautiful hair I’ve seen all day! What’s your name?”
Her: “I’m [Vermont], what’s your name?”
Me: “I’m [Ozz], nice to meet you. So what brings you to the mall today?”
We talk briefly about what she’s doing here, which is getting her eyes done but looking around before her appointment. I ask her if she lives around here (she does) and where she’s originally from (Florida). When she asks me if I live here, I say that I also grew up in the area and I’m visiting my dad who lives close by. She asks me what I’m doing here at the mall, and I tell her that I’m going to go look at a few clothes for work [even though I don’t work at the moment, gotta give SOME story…], and then I proceed to ask her what she’s doing later.
Me: “Do you have any other plans this evening?”
Her: “I have work tomorrow, but I’m free this evening.”
Me: “Well, [Vermont], I think you’re really cute and I’d like to get to know you better. So how about we go grab a coffee or something when you finish up your appointment? What do you think about that?”
Her: “Yeah, I think I can do that, but I think Starbucks closes early today. Maybe we can go somewhere else. How about Brio, have you heard of that?” <YES!!! She is cooperating AND giving input! A very good start.>
Needless to say I had not heard about any of the places she suggested, but I had her put in her number and gave her mine as well, and we agreed to grabbing drinks after she finishes up her appointment. After some more small chatting about where to go because we can’t decide:
Me: “Ok, tell you what, I’m going to go to Banana Republic now, but how about you text me when you finish up and you’re ready to go, and I’ll meet you?”
Her: “That sounds great. I have to tell you though, I only have a little time because I have work tomorrow and there are things I have to get ready.”
Me: “Well…we’re all busy right? See you soon! ” {In retrospect, this was a great opportunity to throw in a sexual frame: “Yeah, we wouldn’t want to get into too much trouble tonight now would we ;-)?...” }
{Another note to self: if she’s already restricting her available time, perhaps it is more appropriate to move faster and set up something that isn’t slow and as time consuming as drinks?}
Side note: One of the girls working at this store saw this going down, and she made sure to throw out “Have a nice evening!” before I left while looking at me with a warmer than normal smile. Pretty sure I could have pulled her number too if I had tried a little later.
I went around and made some more approaches, but 6pm came around and I went to my car (and pulled yet another number on the walk there, woohoo!). Since I live close by I was heading home and texted her en route:
Me 1810: “Hi [Vermont], nice meeting you at the mall. Let me know when you’re on the way to Brio or Sbux and I’ll meet you there. –[Ozz]”
Her 1814: “Nice to meet you as well. I should arrive at Brio in 15 mins.”
Me 1817: “Sounds good” <And just like that I started heading over to this place before even getting home>
This insta-date meant that I would be putting everything I’ve learned and experienced thus far to the test. Between walking the mall and driving and meeting her here, I had no time to look at notes or last minute GC posts or the forum or anything! I have to do all this in my head, I thought. I guess that’s actually a good way to do it.
I’m waiting outside, and she walks up from the left about ten minutes after I get there.
Her: “Hi! Great to see you again.” <Hug>
Me: “Great to see you too! So what sorts of trouble have you gotten yourself into today?”
Her: “Haha, I never get myself into trouble!”
Me: “Mmhmm, a likely story indeed.” <Going through a revolving door now>
Her: “Did you get what you were looking for at the mall?”
Me: “Yeah, I just bought a pair of socks I liked. You went to get your eyes done, right? <Walking beside her towards the bar and looking right at her as she’s looking at me>
Her: “Yeah, I did.”
Me: “They look great!” {Probably need a better frame here i.e. “Glad you got those done especially for me ;-)” Thoughts?}
Me: “I’m glad you showed me this place, I didn’t even know about it.”
When we get there to order drinks, I tell her I'm taking a break and order water instead while she orders wine. I think I just found a unique loophole to avoid paying for a girl. But this is basically how our conversation starts, about drinks.
We move to sit, we’re sitting next to each other at the bar. Throughout this entire interaction her body language was extremely positive. I am not sure if this was intentional or not, because as I would soon learn she practices body language for her profession. One of the things I noticed different about this girl is that she was doing a lot of the same things to me as I was doing to her. Just like they teach you to have excellent fundamentals on GirlsChase, this woman was throwing back the SAME fundamentals right back at me! Maintaining eye contact, using good posture, keeping still and matching my body language and vocal tone. It was actually very fascinating to see and observe. Over the interaction I upped the level of my touching, doing it a few times on her legs, on her arms when making a point, and quite frequently held her hand like hers is a C cup and I’m dipping my fingers into it. I tried the hand interlock and while she didn’t pull away instantly, she didn’t close either. Very neutral here.
When we started talking about what I do, instead of asking me she actually offered to guess! Cool!!
Her: “You’re well dressed with very clean lines….you approached me and introduced yourself in the mall confidently, so you must be good with people….You’re very analytical and your thinking is organized…” <She kept going on, and with a few hints from me she actually guessed correctly. I am starting to think now that I am dealing with a very different breed of woman here!>
What we talked about:
- Her travel: she loves to travel. It’s maybe her favorite hobby. She’s been all over Europe and South America. We connected over this quite well, as I’ve been to Peru and so has she, and we shared quite a bit of conversation over experiencing this culture and everything it has to offer. We talked quite a bit about travel all across the world and where we aspire to be. This seemed to be a good hook.
- Her aspirations: high aspirations to achieve in life, including going to grad school and eventually working for either the UN or the World Bank to help third world countries and issues in those.
- In finance, deals with clients and is extremely busy.
- She’s from Florida, but has lived in Vermont and recently moved to this area a year ago. I asked her a lot about this, and she consequently also asked me a lot about where I've lived and what I do.
- Really enjoys adventure and trying out new experiences.
- She’s spiritually sounds and really believes in a greater purpose and making a bigger difference in the world. We connected quite a bit over this and how we believe in this same thing.
- TV shows: likes drama and suspense. I introduce her to the shows Breaking Bad and The Wire.
- She likes living the fast life, but also takes time for family and such.
- Has a very large family, she is one of 9, but they all get along and she’s the most grounded yet “causes trouble secretly”
- I had her laughing at times, but not so much that it took over the date.
Somewhere in there she comments very subtly that I’m asking interview questions. Good, this tells me that this is something I need to fix. We joke about that, but it’s still a major problem in the way I am running dates and at least it has been identified.
Tool's test:
Me: “You know, you’re a very interesting girl…”
Her: “Oh?”
Me: “I mean, you’re very smart, you’re funny and charming, but I feel that there’s something beneath the surface that you’re afraid to show. But you shouldn’t be…”
Her: …<We’re looking at each other and she has a deep gaze into me but says nothing and is speechless. I switch topics>
Pull attempt about an hour and a half in during a pause:
Me: “Well, I’m having a great time and I feel like the night’s too early to end, don’t you?”
Her: “I’m having a great time as well, but unfortunately I think my night is about to end. It’s getting late, I have work early tomorrow and a lot of things I need to take care of at home before I go to sleep.” <It’s only ~8:00pm>
Me: “Well, I have a pretty early morning myself, but why don’t we let the night continue for a little longer?” {In the future, just say “why don’t we let the night continue?” and ask her if she’s having a good time}
Her: “Unfortunately I can’t, but I would like to see you again when I’m more free.”
<Maybe one more back and forth on this but I forget exactly what she said>
Me: “Oh, so what’s your schedule looking like?”
I started to make the same mistake I made in my last date and start scheduling the next date on this one. I kept asking about her schedule and she clearly wasn’t sure about it yet, and we were looking at our phones trying to figure something out. She is on a business trip to NY Friday but may be free either Friday or Saturday. I realized I was making a huge mistake with this about halfway through and basically stopped her and said, “you know what, actually we don’t have to do this right now. We can figure out a day that works later.” I still think I ruined the intrigue in a way because I started doing this next date planning shit, but I am also glad I caught it in the process, rather than being blind to it. (Thank you T Vaunswa).
We’re talking about reconnecting next weekend and how we’re having a fairly good connection, and I threw this in there too (meant to be a sexual frame):
Me: “Well, maybe next time we meet we’ll *** have an even deeper connection…” <*** = where I deepened and really slowed down my voice with heavy eye contact while holding her hand such that hers is like a cup I am dipping my fingers in>
<short pause and blank deep stare from her>…<I think she didn’t know how to react, so I shifted topics instantly>
Me: “So tell me more about your experience in South America.” {I use the word “so” too much, fix this}
Our conversation continues, but it still feels too much like an interview.
Me: “So, what do you think of me?”
Her: “Hmm…well, I think you’re really interesting and you’re fun to talk to. You have a pretty good handle on things you want in life and in your heart, and only certain kinds of bold, confident men have the attitude to approach a stranger at the mall. But I also sense there’s something else beneath the surface that I’m not seeing.” <This is basically what I said earlier>
There was one moment in conversation where she blinked her eyes in very rapid succession while looking at me as I’m talking. What does this mean?
Over time I suggested we head out. She asked for the bill. The bill came, I offered to get it but she declined and paid for herself. I said we should get out of here.
Me: “You barely finished your wine!”
Her: “Yeah, I don’t drink a whole lot myself.”
I walked her out by guiding her by the small of her back. When we parted ways, it was very simple, and in some ways she led:
Her: “Are you parked in the garage?”
Me: “No, I’m parked that way” <We’re now facing each other, our lower bodies are connected below the waist, I’m holding her by the waist gently while she’s holding me with her hands at my elbows. Our upper bodies and faces are about ten inches apart, and I could see some hesitation on her face that she didn’t want to be kissed. I was keeping my head very still and looking deep in her eyes, while she was slightly nervous and made one miniscule motion of her head backwards. It’s hard to describe this but it seemed she was very nervous about being kissed and didn’t want that>
Me: “So I’ll see you next time…” <moved instead to kiss her on the cheek, which she accepted immediately> “Have a good night!”
Her: “You too!” <disconnect and we walk off in opposite directions>
----
My thoughts:
- Excellent approach and setting up the insta-date.
- I sensed a good rapport in our body language.
- Good response so far from touching and bodily contact, except for kissing and pushing intimacy (deferred)
- Not sure if she is legitimately busy or if this is just an excuse. I pushed for going home that night but also stopped when it didn’t seem feasible, and didn’t try again in case it would look desperate. Either way I didn’t move fast enough and deferred this.
- Weak pull attempt.
- I didn’t make enough sexual and chase frames?
- I conducted this date too much like an interview, which she also pointed out. I think this is good for learning because clearly it’s a major sticking point and something I need to start experimenting with to do differently. In other words, I’ve found a core problem in the way I run dates.
- I should have used a compliance test and tried her wine.
- Maybe I am running my dates too slow, and to break the sticking points and my plateau I have to move faster and try something riskier.
