FR Memoir

[Adamantimus]

Okay, so this FR is not a recent one, but from a year or two back.Still, I wanted to put it here because it's one of the very few were I actually got to exchange numbers and addresses, in order to get things starting up.

And yes, things failed in quite a way.

But now, let's start:


It was once again a house party which i was visiting. There happened to be a neighbor of mine, we were acquaintances of each other.

As I was sipping my drink, an unknown woman stepped inside. She was quite beautiful, and had a really fancy dress.
We just happened to end up standing next to each other, and initiated an conversation. Things were quite civil, but we had chemistry.

Some other guys tried also to open up the woman verbally, but she wasn't interested in them.
She was only interested in talking with me.

We talked about whiskey brands, movies and about ourselves. I found out that she had designed by herself the dress which she was wearing. This was one more + in my eyes. But, as unexperienced as I was, and as it was quite a busy period, me studying around the clock to beat the deadlines, I had to apologize her and leave the party to return continuing my studies.



But things don't end up here. No, they were just beginning.



A few hours later the doorbell of my apartment rang. I went up to the door, it was my neighbour.


- Seriously, you need to come back to the party. My friend was really impressed by you.

I was literally astounded - (she's a friend of her? What a coincidence! And also, WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON, THIS GIRL IN THE PARTY IS INTO ME?) But I kept my calm, answering in a hint of a questioned manner,

- Okay..(?) Well I guess it's better to return then.

So I saved my work, shut my computer and returned to the party.

This time, she was a bit more drunk but man, was she into me.

We continued to speak of various topics, but this time she went more flirtatious on me.

ME, at one part of the conversation: So you fancy camping? I also enjoy nature, but unfortunately I don't always have the time to thread overnight-journeys into nature. But well, once my studies are over there's plenty of time to do that.

HER: Oh I would take you camping, anytime.

ME, having a small breath of a laugh at her flirting: Oh yeah?

HER: Yes.

I'm sure we could have exchanged kisses at this stage, but my intuition told me to wait. Something was amiss.

Soon after this we exchanged numbers + addresses, and I sent a friend request for her on Facebook.

She was in need of a smoke, and I told her to wait as I had a box of small cigars at my apartment.

HER: I love men who smoke cigars.

So we chatted some more at the balcony, smoking the cigars.



As we returned inside, I continued deep diving, and she continued her flirting.

ME: So you like (culture x)? Tell me more about it. It's very intriguing as I'm too into this culture.

HER: Yeah? Well I have even tattoos of it. Check this out.

She started showing her skin to me, where she had her tattoos.

Be in mind that this all happened during when there were all sorts of men around us, sitting. Muscle men, alphas and all sorts of other guys.

But I didn't mind them. This was our conversation.


The party was about to end, and she was starting to take her leave.

Her: I have to go now. It was nice talking to you.

And this was were she made her revelation:

- My boyfriend's probably sleeping.


Damn was I disappointed. I could've had maybe even asked to escort her to the apartment, continuing the night, had she not had a boyfriend. But this was what my guts were trying to tell me. It was all too good to be true, she had a boyfriend.


Next day I noticed that she hadn't added me on Facebook.


A week later, as I was returning from one party, I received a text message. It was her.

HER: Hi. Do you have any goings for this evening? I'm really bored..

ME: Where are you at this moment?

HER:In the central, at a bar. Do you mind having a glass or two with me?

ME, having a bad feeling of where this was going: You have your boyfriend with you?

HER: No. He's at one of those parties of his. He doesn't take me with him so I'm left all alone.

At this point I was furious. Was this girl just ignorant thinking it's just "okay" for her seeing other guys behind the boyfriends back, or was she just trying to make me into a secret lover of hers.
And if she was trying to make me into a sl, did she really think I would be so dumb to go for it, if she just hooked me up a little and flirted a few times to me.
Did I look that dumb in the eyes of her?

And yes, I had searched her boyfriend's FB-profile. He looked like the kind of guy who eats iron nails for breakfast. The kind of guy you don't want to mess with.

So I wrote a small novel of a text for her, stating how I had my principles and that I'm not going to see a girl behind her boyfriend's back, let alone without him knowing of it.

She answered,

- Oh you got this all wrong here. My boyfriend's cool for me seeing other guys. It's not that strict between me and him you know.

I wasn't taking any risks and remained adamant (no pun intented), texting

- Sorry. Not going to happen.


Maybe she was stuck in a bad relationship. I've seen those happen. But I wasn't going to become her white knight to ride with my horse with shining armor and rescue her.

Nor was I going to become this hook-up guy who's going to hang out with her, and then possibly create a conflict when her guy knows about it, and then the girl's going to be,

- Oh Mark, this guy's nothing. You know we love each other, we are in a relationship and all. It was this guy who's the culprit.

And then I'm going to get beaten up or something and the woman will get her man to get interested in her again, possibly start taking her to parties again. Maybe. If she just would get her man jealous and start seeing her as important again.


These were the things I were seeing, and why I dumped the girl.



This was the story. I'm interested to hear your comments on it.


One more note. I actually checked her profile recently, and she lives in another city now. There's no pictures of her with her boyfriend anymore, and I didn't find her boyfriend's profile anymore from her friend list. Of course, it could be that he has just switched his profile picture and I just can't connect the picture to the person (also can't remember the guys name)

I'm thinking of contacting the girl again, but seeing how I dumped her, maybe that's not the best idea.

What do you think?

 

[Teparus]

I think you need to chill. What chance are you taking, really? And why would you think she sees you as dumb?

Men are very, very unlikely to take a swipe at someone who hooks up with their girl, and open relationships are all the rage these days, anyway.

You come across as very judgmental and somewhat emotional...which is not great pair of traits for seduction. I'm pretty sure chase has some materials on the site for exactly such things. You may want to read up on them. As well as his article on the "Civilized Man". You may get something from them.

 

[Adamantimus]

I think you need to chill. What chance are you taking, really? And why would you think she sees you as dumb?

Men are very, very unlikely to take a swipe at someone who hooks up with their girl, and open relationships are all the rage these days, anyway.

You come across as very judgmental and somewhat emotional...which is not great pair of traits for seduction. I'm pretty sure chase has some materials on the site for exactly such things. You may want to read up on them. As well as his article on the "Civilized Man". You may get something from them.

Thank you Haraklus for your response. I've been waiting for someone to comment on this.

What I meant by her seeing me as dumb (and foolish), was that she would see me as a tool to get her man interested in her again, rather than her seeing me as actually a desirable man.

And why I went for a non-seductive, judgmental mode was that I was zero interested in the girl at that point. Of course it was not seductive, that was what I were trying to achieve. I became logical, thrashing away my earlier emotions.


The reason why this happened, why I reacted like this was that

1. I've not had a very good luck with women in the past. I've been hurt, and have met a cold wall a little too many times. So when I got negative associations, I was very fast to call it a quit.

2. I didn't know the girl's true intentions. Was she really interested in me, "love at a first sight", and she would want to start seeing me behind her boyfriends back? Or was she in a bad relationship and wanted to either get out of it by holding onto me, or just to use me as a tool to get her man back from being passive to being a true lover.

Quoting Chase,

- If she's trying to make him jealous, she isn't focused on you... she's focused on HIM ... for some guy to help make her boyfriend jealous is usually a bad bet and is going to lead to wasted time and effort.

Also, I didn't know the man. But the only thing I knew was that he looked intimidating. It could be that she, not only saw the girl as her lover, but also saw her as his property. This doesn't necessarily mean that he's violent, but it could very well be that he doesn't look well on other guys approaching romantically her woman.


So by going to logical mode, I went from "What am I feeling here?", to "What will the guy think of all this?"

This was why I put a red flag and I bailed out.


Of course, being all judgmental like this on girls is not what I usually do. But this thing, that a girl being into me in such a strong way was something I certainly didn't want to happen, after I found out she was actually living together with a guy.


Comments are still appreciated.

 

[Drck]

Hey Amantimus, I hope it doesn’t sound too harsh, don’t take it too personally just take it as a “story” between some guy and some girl:



As I was sipping my drink, an unknown woman stepped inside. She was quite beautiful, and had a really fancy dress. We just happened to end up standing next to each other, and initiated an conversation. Things were quite civil, but we had chemistry.
> Great, she approached you, she invested into you, she was interested in you.

Some other guys tried also to open up the woman verbally, but she wasn't interested in them. She was only interested in talking with me.
> Great, she likes you a lot

We talked about whiskey brands, movies and about ourselves. I found out that she had designed by herself the dress which she was wearing. This was one more + in my eyes. But, as unexperienced as I was, and as it was quite a busy period, me studying around the clock to beat the deadlines, I had to apologize her and leave the party to return continuing my studies.
> Great. So you have this girl interested in you and you go to study. But it is actually ok, by leaving her you showed her that you are not needy and that you have bigger value than she does

A few hours later the doorbell of my apartment rang. I went up to the door, it was my neighbour. - Seriously, you need to come back to the party. My friend was really impressed by you.
> Damn! Another good thing, she wants you to come back, meaning like Right Now!


So I saved my work, shut my computer and returned to the party.
> Ok, great. You turned off the porn and went back to the party to see this girl. How exciting

This time, she was a bit more drunk but man, was she into me. We continued to speak of various topics, but this time she went more flirtatious on me.
> Yes, she is into you, she was drunk and flirtatious. She expected some action. Like touch and kiss, and then most likely even more.

ME, at one part of the conversation: So you fancy camping? I also enjoy nature, but unfortunately I don't always have the time to thread overnight-journeys into nature. But well, once my studies are over there's plenty of time to do that.
HER: Oh I would take you camping, anytime.
> Meaning, I would like to be alone with you anytime, preferably like Right Now, so we can finally do “stuff” together. Doing it in nature is just natural!


ME, having a small breath of a laugh at her flirting: Oh yeah?
HER: Yes.
> Oh yes, she would really like to be alone with you, like Right Now!


I'm sure we could have exchanged kisses at this stage, but my intuition told me to wait. Something was amiss.
> Arghhh… Your intuition is wrong. You should have exchanged kisses…


Soon after this we exchanged numbers + addresses, and I sent a friend request for her on Facebook.
> Ok, now you want to be a good friend on her Facebook, you want to be calling her and texting her, then texting her and calling her even more. But she wants more Right Now, yet all you worry about is being her FB friend... She is getting disappointed…


She was in need of a smoke, and I told her to wait as I had a box of small cigars at my apartment.
HER: I love men who smoke cigars.
> Yes, and she would like to have one too. She needs something between her lips, like Right Now! And, she also loves man who smoke, which you do…


As we returned inside, I continued deep diving, and she continued her flirting.
> Oh boy, she is thinking, I really want to do stuff like Right Now but he is just talking and talking, more and more. Is he trying to seduce me…?? Maybe I have to show him something so he finally gets it!

ME: So you like (culture x)? Tell me more about it. It's very intriguing as I'm too into this culture.
HER: Yeah? Well I have even tattoos of it. Check this out. She started showing her skin to me, where she had her tattoos.
> Now she says: Look, look, look! Look one more time! She is taking her clothes off, showing you something that she doesn’t show to every guy. Maybe she has more to show. She says: Check it out, I’m getting naked!

Be in mind that this all happened during when there were all sorts of men around us, sitting. Muscle men, alphas and all sorts of other guys.
> Alphas are very dangerous men. Anytime I see one I immediately leave the girl I am with for him, because he is very attractive and every female runs after him…

But I didn't mind them. This was our conversation.
> Yes, it was a conversation, but she wanted more.


And yes, things failed in quite a way.
> Yes, she was very interested in you but by inactions you kinda shifted yourself into a Friend Zone…


The party was about to end, and she was starting to take her leave.
Her: I have to go now. It was nice talking to you.
> She actually made her revelation here. She wanted to do something, not just talking. But talking was nice. You were nice by talking to her. There you go, she is tired and leaving, alone…


And this was were she made her revelation:
- My boyfriend's probably sleeping.
> Well, probably she doesn’t have any BF. She just talks about BF as a cover

Damn was I disappointed. I could've had maybe even asked to escort her to the apartment, continuing the night, had she not had a boyfriend. But this was what my guts were trying to tell me. It was all too good to be true, she had a boyfriend.
> You wanted to be her friend, you wanted to talk, and talk and talk… Remember? So why were you so disappointed if she has BF? You should have escorted her, but much sooner…

Next day I noticed that she hadn't added me on Facebook.
> Indeed, she did not. She already has hundreds of friends she doesn’t need more friends….

A week later, as I was returning from one party, I received a text message. It was her.
HER: Hi. Do you have any goings for this evening? I'm really bored..
ME: Where are you at this moment?
HER: In the central, at a bar. Do you mind having a glass or two with me?
> Meaning, I really want to see you again, I like you, come and lets meet again!

ME, having a bad feeling of where this was going: You have your boyfriend with you?
HER: No. He's at one of those parties of his. He doesn't take me with him so I'm left all alone.
> Meaning, I don’t have a boyfriend and I am alone, looking for one. I am inviting you to come. Maybe we can have a glass or to together, to loosen up…

At this point I was furious. Was this girl just ignorant thinking it's just "okay" for her seeing other guys behind the boyfriends back, or was she just trying to make me into a secret lover of hers.
And if she was trying to make me into a sl, did she really think I would be so dumb to go for it, if she just hooked me up a little and flirted a few times to me.
Did I look that dumb in the eyes of her?
And yes, I had searched her boyfriend's FB-profile. He looked like the kind of guy who eats iron nails for breakfast. The kind of guy you don't want to mess with.
So I wrote a small novel of a text for her, stating how I had myprinciples and that I'm not going to see a girl behind her boyfriend's back, let alone without him knowing of it.

She answered, - Oh you got this all wrong here. My boyfriend's cool for me seeing other guys. It's not that strict between me and him you know.
> Ok, she doesn’t really have a BF. She’s telling you directly that she doesn’t have one. He goes out and meets other girls, and she goes out and meets other guys. There is no BF/GF relationship.


I wasn't taking any risks and remained adamant (no pun intented), texting
- Sorry. Not going to happen.
> Oh well. She’ll be there alone then, looking for someone else

These were the things I were seeing, and why I dumped the girl.
> I’m not sure if you really dumped her. Maybe you were not together at first place…??


One more note. I actually checked her profile recently, and she lives in another city now. There's no pictures of her with her boyfriend anymore, and I didn't find her boyfriend's profile anymore from her friend list. Of course, it could be that he has just switched his profile picture and I just can't connect the picture to the person (also can't remember the guys name)
> Ok, she doesn’t really have a BF. Now it is 100% sure. Don’t search for him, he doesn’t exist.


I'm thinking of contacting the girl again, but seeing how I dumped her, maybe that's not the best idea.
> Yes, the best idea is to contact her and invite her out

 

[Drck]

Anyway, I guess what I wanted to say is simple: always assume that she is attracted to you, that she wants to have intimate relationship with you, that she wants you, especially when she is into you like you described above. Once you have this assumption it is relatively easy to "see" what she wants, and you just lead her there. If she is really interested she will follow. If not, she will leave anyway.

She probably had a BF but he broke up with her, she was looking for revenge, and she liked you. She was into you a lot, but then you were only talking, and talking, and deep diving, and talking again, then asking her to talk even more... She didn't want to talk, she can have much better conversations with her female friends than with a guy. She was not looking for a friend, she was not looking to add you as a FB friend. She was looking for a guy, potential BF...

 

[Marty]

Hey Amantimus, I hope it doesn’t sound too harsh, don’t take it too personally just take it as a “story” between some guy and some girl:

Drck is 100% correct every step of the way.

Drck I wish I had you sitting on my shoulder like a little bird, and whispering in my ear every time I have an interaction with a girl. Learned so much from reading this.

 

[Adamantimus]

Sorry for taking this long to answer. First, I've been quite pressured with the deadlines. Second, your post was so win that I had better to take some time in answering.

Drck, as an answer to your initial post:

Such commitment and step by step-processing.

I love it!

+ your theory about the girl actually not having a boyfriend during the happening back then, well.. If it would've been even partially true, it would've been some Shutter Island-quality deception right there, in my eyes. And I just love when my mind is being blown off. It's like opening all the windows of my apartment in order to let the cool and refreshing breeze come in.

After that, you still theorized that maybe she still had a bf, but broke up later - theory which I find more apparent. But this "not having a bf actually but acting like she has one" is simply a delicious thought. Like wow, how witty is that!

BUT, these two end theories make quite a difference in my eyes. Of course, the end product is still the same; I didn't get the girl, but in my mind it doesn't matter. Am I disappointed about it, now that I find that yes, this woman was interested in me and I let her go? No. Not a bit. Instead, I smile to know this information which ends my confusion. And oh yeah, this gorgeous woman was actually genuinely interested in me sexually, not just playing with me, faking or teasing.

Still, the difference is in how I perceive this woman. Is she 1. Strong and independent woman who tricks me into believing she has a bf when she actually hasn't, like "Yeah, **** you - I don't have a boyfriend but you sure turn me on and I can act like I have one."

Or is she 2. A damsel in distress. A girl with a bad relationship who wants to use me for her revenge. Yes, maybe she is into me, but which emotion would end up stronger? Her emotions for me, or her desire to have revenge on her bf? Would her love be fueled by passion, or by revenge?

Anyways, your answer was most helpful. Not only did it lift my confusion on the case (even though I still don't have the 100 % answer, for this only the girl could give - but it doesn't matter), but this also taught me new things.

I've come from a confused guy with, "What's this girl meaning? I can't make any sense of it.",

to "A signal. Yes! She's interested in me!",

to "Flirt signal A. Check. B check. C check. Yes, some interest is definitely coming from her. She is flirting with me."


What a great forum this is, and once again, thank you for your dedication.


I may put a Memoir part 2. somewhere next week. If this is an FR-, then that's a real FU. But, learning's learning.

Hey Amantimus, I hope it doesn’t sound too harsh, don’t take it too personally just take it as a “story” between some guy and some girl:

Drck is 100% correct every step of the way.

Drck I wish I had you sitting on my shoulder like a little bird, and whispering in my ear every time I have an interaction with a girl. Learned so much from reading this.

I'm glad to see you've also gained something from all of this! It proves that the thread is not only a learning experience for me, but for others as well.

 

[Drck]

You are doing really good Marty, I read your recent FR with that smaller girl who had such hot legs. I felt those great vibes just from your text. You are such a romantic! You know what to do, if you want to keep the girl you simply have to nail her.


Girls sometimes "pretend" to have a BF, or they just keep a guy around while looking for real BF. It is like a shield, they can hide behind it when they need to, they know most guys won't pursue them once she mentions her BF. She simply can't tell you the truth: I'm alone but at this moment and I don't feel like going anywhere with you. So she says: I have a BF.

But then, when she flirts with you, when she is open to go someplace alone with you, when she's asking you to join her here and there - the guy who she calls BF is not really that significant for her, he is just a friend, just an orbital...