FU My end game debacle... (Feedback appreciated)

[Gladiator]

Background:

While things have improved and my momentum seems to have returned like pre-COVID days since I've joined this forum earlier this year, this sticking point of end game doesn't seems to have improved at all. I've mentioned this in passing a few times that closing is the hardest for me and its my main sticking point but if my closing game is fixed, I think it'll catapult my success to next level. So, I thought I'll write a detailed FR from start to finish word-for-word to give a clear picture and would appreciate your feedback.

I'd think its in the bag but one of the following would happen:

• She'll not accept to go home although she'd the date would've gone amazingly well until that point. She'd be giggling and all, even holding hands, or resting her hand on my lap and there'd be a lot of escalation but when I suggest a 'plausible deniability', she'd freak out and eject
• This is a step ahead of the last where she accepts coming home and we'd sometimes walk hand-in-hand or with arms around our waists but as she approaches my apartment, she'd ask where are we going and I'd say, 'I told you, to my apartment to watch the view from my balcony/ watch movie/ Youtube party etc.. ' whatever that plausible deniability that I had mentioned and she'd have agreed but she freaks out at this point and ejects. Since I dont like to negotiate in front of my apartment, I just say 'Goodbye' and leave.
• OR it can be a step ahead from the last where she comes along with me like a cow on leash but once we get home, she gets nervous and she'd leave shortly. Below FR is one such...

I finished work and was tired from a long day and I wanted to get some fresh air but I was tempted to stay in since I was tired but I pushed myself to go out anyway. I walked out from my apartment and walked to the waterfront which is just around 3-5 mins from where I live. Its where mostly tourists (chics) congregate. I walk there and as I walk past the bench in front of the waterfront to the grill fence, I notice a cute chic sitting alone looking at the ocean view. I notice her in my peripheral vision and continue walking to the grill. Its not very crowded... She and a couple more old people are sitting on the benches and talking. I look at the view from different angles and also look at her in my peripheral vision and she is noticing me. While I plan my opener, I take some pictures on my phone which she is intently watching...

I decided to go talk to her and I walk past her and am a couple of yards diagonally across her and I open looking behind my shoulder..

Opener:

Me: Nice view.. aye?
She: *She was wearing ear phones* Removes the earphones and says, what? (with a smile and a bit perplexed)
Me: I gestured with my hand towards the ocean and repeated myself... "Nice view..."
She: Oh yeah, very beautiful..

She was shy and nervous.. a German chic which I could tell from her accent.. and was attracted but she wasn't making eye-contact.. I thought to myself, 'Damn.. not the shy one' cos that's the one I have very difficulty seducing (which I've mentioned a few times here as well). Normally, I'd eject since such girls are not very good socially and its hard to carry the conversation with such chics. Generally I go for the social butterflies who shit test a lot but they're good in playing the game.. shy girls dont shit test a whole lot but they dont even talk. Shit tests are better than not talking at all.. Anyway, I decided to stick and see how far I can go ahead with her.. So, I continued..

I knew I had a play this completely differently than my usual process.. with a lot of compliance, patience and lead, lead, lead...

Me: Is it as beautiful in Germany?
She: How do you know? (Giggling)
Me: I can see 'Made in Germany'.. pointing to her forehead with a smirk
She: Hahahah.. no really.. how do you know?
Me: I guessed from your accent..
She: Haha ok.. So, do you know Germans?
Me: I have a lot of friends from Germany
She: Ok..

That's the most she could've talked and she went quiet. I knew I have to plough from here on.. and as expected to she gives one word answers

Me: Visiting or are you here for a long time?
She: I'm here for one year
Me: Hmm.. So, I'm guessing you're on your gap year..
She: Yes..

I guessed she's anywhere from 18 to 21..Anyway..

Me: When did you arrive..?
She: 2 weeks ago
Me: Like it so far?
She: Yes, I love it..
Me: but I sense that you dont look so (Since I noticed she looked a bit down..)
She: Ya, cos I travelled with a group and I split from the group yesterday and now I am alone
Me: That's awesome then..
She: No its not.. with a dull face
Me: Why not? You have all the freedom to whatever you want to do now.,
She: Yes but I liked to be with them..

I realised that I have to change her mood and not her mind to talk to me.. and I continued..

Me: Ya but look at all the things that you can do when you're alone.. you can travel wherever you want without bound to group rules, you can sleep at whatever time you want, wake up at your own will late in the afternoon, party like crazy.. even jump off into the ocean and nobody will bother you.. Even I won't save you, believe me...
She: hahahahaha

She cheers up a bit but still there is no hook point. She hasn't asked anything about me. I wanted to force a hook point. I soldiered on..

Me: Oh you can laugh too.. I thought you're the kinda girl who can't laugh for anything..
She: Hahaha
Me: Anyway, really if you think of all the things that you can do when you're alone and not reliant on others its fascinating isn't it? You feel so liberated..

I was using hypnotic words like freedom, liberation, living the way you want etc.. Although there was no hook point, I thought, I can use the "Judgemental people" gambit

Me: You can do anything you want and nobody judges you and that's the best you can experience as part of your travels.
She: Yes.. (acknowledging strongly what I said but with still no hook point)

At this point, I decided to call out the "Elephant in the room"...
This is all a new process for me since I'm not very adept at gaming shy girls but I really want to solve this puzzle which will open up a lot of opportunities for me.. so, I continue...

Me: I think this tells me something about you...
She: What?
Me: You're someone who doesn't talk a lot
She: No I do.. just not with strangers
Me: Everyone you've met in your life were strangers at some point in your life except your parents
She: Ya, that's true..
Me: You can only know connect with others if you start to open up..
She: I'm trying but as you know I dont have a lot of experience in life..

Now I know that she is attracted but not confident to contribute to the conversation... This was enough for me to lead her...
I ask her what her plans her for tonight and she says it is her last night in the town and she is leaving early tomorrow morning. I wondered if it was a good idea to continue or eject since she's a hard nut to crack with little time for me to seduce but I decided to go with it to see how far I can get...

Bounce:

Me: That's understandable.. Lets have a tea and I'll give you tips on how to connect with people
She: haha.. I dont drink tea
Me: Really? Who doesn't like tea? Coffee might make you jittery but tea is relaxing

I wasn't sure if it was a rejection since her facial expressions and body language were still closed off.. I wanted to nudge one last time and eject..

Me: Hmm.. lets go for a walk.. I was sitting all day and I want to go for a walk...
She: Readily accepts..

Remember still there is no hook-point but I knew by now that hook-point doesn't happen with these kind of girls and I'll have to teach her how to create a hook point..

Date:

Me: Ok, lets play a game..
She: What is it? (very excitedly..)
Me: You're going to ask me 10 questions..
She: Whaaat? That is very difficult

My plan was to weave in comfort with these questions.. I knew there was attraction, which will make seduction easier.

Me: Of course, there is no pressure.. take it slow, think and come up with questions but as you progress, your questions should get more deep..
She: Oh..
Me: Come on.. I trust you, you can do it
She: Ok, I will try..
Me: Go with the first one..

Question 1:

She: What do you work?
Me: Not bad for a first question.. I work as an Analyst
She: Ok..
Me: Do you know what that is?
She: No, tell me..
Me: I explain it to her..

...and then I ask her what her dreams are and what her career plans are.. She says she is trying to find herself and see where life takes her.
Now there are incidental touches which she's ok with. One step forward, two steps backwards.
At one point I hold her hand while crossing the street and say to her..

Me: When you call your Mom, let her know I saved you today
She giggles

Question 2:

Me: What is your favorite color?

I thought this was really naive but cute at the same time

Me: Red but you'd hardly see me wearing Red. I mostly like to wear black. What's your favorite color?
She: Blue
Me: Like the vast sky which is open to a lot of opportunities.

I induce hypnotic suggestion wherever possible

She: Yes
Me: You know colors that you like can give clues about your personality
She: Really?
Me: Ya, for example.. someone who likes pink are very bubbly and cheerful.. and those who like black are mysterious etc

I reward her every now and then..

Me: I thought you don't really know to talk to strangers.. Not bad for coming up with interesting questions..

She's elated at this point like getting praised from her Dad.. well.. I'm in my 30s, so possible.. Isn't it?
We stop here and there for her to take pictures..

Question 3:

She: what's your favorite country?
Me: Netherlands.. Amsterdam..
She: oh wow.. I love there too.. have you been to Germany?
Me: No, I didn't have time to go to Germany.. But hey I'm still young.. I can go there again.. but about Amsterdam, I like the freedom and non-judgemental attitude of people there
She: True..

As these questions are gaining momentum, I'm trying to move faster...

Question 4:

She: How old are you?
Me: 65. With a deadpan expression
She: Hahahaha
Me: Still not smiling and say, I'm serious

Believe it or not, some nerdy chics do believe it.. but not this one..

She: No, you dont look so..
Me: I've got a plastic surgery done and I take care of myself
She: hahah.. no, tell me
Me: What do you think?
She: I'm very bad at guessing.. tell me
Me: Ok, will tell you later.. now onto the next question..

Basic shit tests are part of women's biology I think..

Question 5:

She: How tall are you?
Me: I'm 3 feet
She: How much is that in meters? I dont know feet
Me: 90 cms

Thinks for a few secs.. and laughs again..

She: Hahahaah.. No tell me..
He: I'm right next to you.. you can guess
She: Something like 175cms?
He: Me.. yeah.. (I'm 5'8")

Question 6:

She: What is your favourite food?
Me: I'm a pescatarian.. So, I have limited choices but I'm not too fussy about food in general
She: What is that?
Me: I eat only seafood and no meat.. of course veggies..

One thing I've noticed with these kind of nerdy chics is, they're sapiosexual.. if you have a rich vocabulary and use words they're not familiar with, they think you're intelligent.. and her expression changed and she was getting more comfortable..

She: Ok
Me: If I have to choose, I'd say I like Teriyaki Salmon don (Japanese) and brunch (eggs benny with salmon).. you?
She: She said some German cuisine..

I didn't need to qualify her a lot since more than anything she needed comfort..but still I qualified with a basic qualification.. just to not forget the basics

Me: Do you cook?
She: Ya, I love cooking and I like baking...

I seeded a pull and said, we should cook at my place sometime..

She: Ya, we can do that but we need to buy some stuff I dont think we can find here..

I dont know when a girl is too naive sometimes I feel guilty for seducing her.. but I dont know if it was her naivety or she was playing along.. although she did sound naive..

Me: Well, then lets start with egg omelette then.. with a smirk
She: hahaha.. we can do that..
Me: Talking about food, I feel like eating an ice cream now
She: That's a good idea..
Me: Let me find one..

I look for one on google maps and there was nothing around but there was one 10 mins walk away and closer to my place. I say, lets go here and she follows..

Question 7:

She: What is your favorite pet?
Me: I love dogs..
I show a picture of me with a dog
She: Very cute
Me: Do you have any pets?
She: Yes, I have a rabbit..and a cat

We talk about pets for sometime... This is completely different game for me.. there is not high physical escalation except occasional touching since she needed a lot of comfort..

Question 8:

She: Do you have siblings?
Me: I have an elder sister...You?
She: I have a brother and a sister
Me: ..and you're the youngest?
She: No, I'm younger than my brother and elder than my sister
Me: So.. not a spoilt brat?
She: hahaha.. I'm not
Me: Your sister must be..
She: No.. she is very shy.. I'm actually the crazy one.. hahaha
Me: I can tell..
She: How?
Me: I know that you're cat from outside and tiger from inside.. make a strong eye-contact but she can't hold that tension.. so, I break it off quickly..

I take a break here and say.. you've been doing amazing with your questions.. let me ask you a question this time..

She: *excited*
Me: What fascinates you in life?
She: Hmm.. that's a difficult question..
Me: Take your time..
She: I think humans..
Me: What about them?
She: You just can't say what they're thinking and what they want..
Me: True
She: For example, in the hostel I'm staying, I have 3 men and I'm the only girl in the room.. they all look at me all the time and its scary and creepy..

I guess, she was comfortable but not comfortable to trust me a lot.. So, I took charge and did some contrasting..

Me: Ya, I can totally relate.. most men are dogs..
She: hahaha
Me: You won't find gentlemen like me often.. with a wink
She: Oh.. ya, at least you're not creepy..

I reward her by poking her belly..

Me: Ya, seriously I can imagine how hard it is to be a woman.. I mean you have your advantages of being a woman but it comes with a lot of risk too.. Risk at every stage.. both physically and emotionally. You're judged at every stage.. for your dressing, your looks, being sexual etc..

By this point, she was comfortable for 2nd gen verbals...

Me: If a man sleeps around, he is a stud but a woman is slutty if she does the same.. I dont find that right somehow..
She: Deer with headlights look
Me: I mean men are anatomically designed for sex without emotions.. a guy can get horny anytime and fuck but for a woman, she needs to be mentally stimulated and most guys dont know this and they think if a woman sleeps around she is a slut.. its not that easy for her to just fuck anyone. She needs to be comfortable, emotionally stimulated and feel the passion even before having sex.. So, saying she is a slut is not the right thing to say, I'd see her as someone who is passionate and who loves herself and lets go of control and what society thinks and lives her life to the fullest..
Me: That is one thing I'm a bit fascinated about women, they can feel a range of emotions in a short period of time and I think emotions are what drives the orgasms and they can orgasm really good, when they are emotionally stimulated by the right person in a right environment.. specially when they have sex, they can orgasm in many different ways.. unlike men.

I wanted to see if I'm inflating it and took a break here.. I think she was already overwhelmed at this point.. since she didn't ask me about orgasms.. or else I was planning to deliver the 8 orgasms routine.. btw, I use that routine only on very sexually liberated girls anyway..so, switched back to social..

Me: Anyway, your next question..

Question 9:
She: Where are you from?
Me: Mars planet
She: Hahaha.. sure
Me: I know..
She: No tell me..
Me: Do you know Bangalore..?
She: Yes, I do..
Me: Its the IT capital of India...
She: Ya, I know that..
Me: You said you don't know to talk to strangers.. now you have asked me 9 questions effortlessly... that's amazing..

We had reached the ice-cream parlour and we got our ice-creams. By this stage, she was pretty comfortable with me.. but not enough to have sex.. I thought..
We fluff talked a bit here and it was already 8.30.. I had to move faster..
Although all of these questions sounds like they were a lot.. it took just over an hour.. and I thought I had done good enough job so far..

Me: So, you have your final questions.. use it wisely

By this point, she also had become very good with her questions...

Question 10:
She: What is something unique about you?
Me: Wow! I wouldn't have guessed that you can ask something like that... look you've totally learnt to socialise with strangers now
She: Yay!
Me: That's an interesting question.. but the answer depends on how open-minded you are.. For ex: I could say, I've been told I'm a very warm person from people who know me well...
She: I can agree with that..
Me: Or I can say, I'm very good in bed...
She: She just smiles...

I knew she was ready to bounce...

Pull:

Me: What is your favourite movie btw?
She: Oh I dont watch movies.. I like series
Me: Oh I dont like series at all.. Now I think we won't get along.. with a smirk
She: hahaha
Me: I like to watch random videos on Youtube though
She: I do that more with TikTok..
Me: Lets go do a Youtube party..
She: Where?
Me: At my place
She: Oh.. I need to go. I have my bus in the morning and I haven't packed anything. Also, my hostel door closes at 10 PM and I dont have the key
Me: Don't you use Goki App?
She: No, what is that?
Me: Its this.. you can download and you can get in whenever you want
She: Oh no and I dont want to risk..

I thought, worst case she can sleep at my place..

Me: Well its only 8.30 and we still have 1.30mins....
She: Ya, that's right
Me: Lets go..
She: Sure, why not?

She grabs both of our cups and drops in the trash bin..

Me: That was nice.. you didn't leave them there
She: Ya, we have to do our bit for the environment..
Me: Nice.. I totally agree with you...

This was a good topic to keep her anxiety down until we get to my apartment and we talk about environment etc

I ask her to remove her shoes and she does. I take her to the balcony to show the view and we get back to playing videos on Youtube. She looks nervous... she is sitting on the edge of the couch

Me: Are you ok?
She: Ya..

I pace and lead..

Me: You must be thinking.. oh, where am I? I'm in this new place and I dont know this guy very well..
She: Ya
Me: Don't worry you're in the safest place on earth
She: If my mom knows I'm here, she'll freak out...

I play it as a joke to change her mood... I thought loosening herself up will relieve her nervousness and I suggest we dance.. I play bachata music and we dance..
She enjoys dancing and she looks much better now..

Me: You're a good dancer..
She: No, I'm not..
Me: You did dance well now..

She doesn't seem to have her mind right here and still seems nervous..

Me: Now lets play your choice.. what shall I play?
She: Hmm.. Taylor swift?
Me: Any song in particular?
She: No.. anything will do..

I play different songs and we dance some more but she doesn't seem to be able to relax. She asks for water and then I remember that she had mentioned that she likes cuddling...

Me: Come here, you need some good cuddling
She: She half-ass nudges into me..
Me: Anyway, what is that you seem to like about relationships... (In one of the posts @fog had suggested that I elicit her sexual values to build sexual comfort and I asked this but it didnt seem to go in the direction I wanted)
She: I want to be loved..
Me: Ya, that's so important right? Someone has to accept you as you are...
She: Totally..,

Just to lighten the situation.. I tease a bit..

Me: I mean you're OK looking but not too bad that someone will not like you..
She: Hey.. I'm leaving now.. with a giggle..
Me: I know someone who is cute.. come I'll show you..
She: Where?
Me: She's in my bedroom..
She: I take her to the bathroom mirror and show her...

She blushes.. I thought there is enough tension and I hold her hips with both hands.. her facing me. There is no distance between us but her head is tilted back and I thought she's not ready and we walk outside.. to the living room again. I never persist physically when it comes to kissing or sex. That's my rule to avoid any problems. We go back to the couch and we continue talking... then I suggest we should just dance to the music.. not any latin dance... then we sway our bodies and she loosens up a bit and I bring her closer to me again holding her waist and she is still not very comfortable.. the song ends and she declares she needs to leave.

I say, all good. She asks me how to leave the apartment and I said I'll drop her outside and bring her down the elevator and see her off outside the building.
I thought to myself, another end-stage failure... as I take the elevator back...

Key Points:

There were still a few wins:

• I could think on my feet for 10 questions strategy and executed well...
• I finally have a process for shy girls. Maybe I need more refining and if I have more time, I can do better. Not SDL but maybe first date?
• I calibrated really well and there were no glitches
• I could come up with anti-dotes for all her objections which were very convincing for her
• Though my typical game is physical escalation, I could bring her home with verbal escalation alone

I've had lots and lots of these and much weirder ones.. I still can't pinpoint what I do wrong and what I dont do right?
In this particular instance, it could be:

• Wrong target selection?
• Lack of time... it was too fast?
• or too slow?
• or my end stage game is weak?
• In one of the posts, @fog suggested I elicit her sexual values. Keeping that in mind, I asked her what kind of guy she is looking for and she said she
• I have a subconscious feeling that its wrong to seduce girls as young as 18 or 19, me being in my 30s and this flares its ugly head during seduction. I think lose my momentum when I think of it and perhaps chics can pickup on that loss of vibe and incongruence?
• or completely something that I'm blindsided to
• or something that you want to suggest?

Date lasted 3+ hours.. from opener until she left...

I'm all ears for your feedback!

Cheers
Gladiator

 

[Chad Tyrone]

First of all ,you opening to her makes you feel connected to her not her to you.

With girls who aren't giving you much to work with

Tactics Tuesdays: Conversations Where the Girl Doesn't Talk Much

Sometimes you’ll meet girls who won’t contribute to conversation. When this happens, you’ll have to step up and do the talking yourself. One of our forum members by the name of Witcher had a few questions about deep diving, one of which was this: “Deep diving demand[s] from the seducer to ask...

www.girlschase.com

That's far better than letting her interview you where talking more about yourself can spell the death of the seduction.Often losing your mystery and intrigue.So on the same note

Why Talking Less is (Usually) Best

I had a tiresome dialogue on a long train ride yesterday where I found myself being sidetracked on irrelevancies in what originally seemed like it’d be an engaging conversation. Throughout the course of this unfortunately lengthy conversation (it was a 6 hour train ride), this man repeatedly...

www.girlschase.com

But yet again you can be the talkative guy that leads .I mean women aren't gonna lead things the way you want whether conversation wise or towards the bedroom.

Again her asking you questions is okay but you wanna thread-cut topics that aren't helpful to the seduction while amplifying those that are.Heck, you can lay back and thread-direct where you want the conversation to go...often towards fun, interesting and romantic topics.


Then give her a little more details to help get past small talk both for you and her .Make it a conversation not interview-mode like where she shoots question after question.You are treading the surface and aren't building any similarity whatsoever.

Then if deep diving fails or when everytime you turn it back to her she gives you short answers,switch to talkative mode yourself (linked above).


As you talk more and more ,include her and take note of how she reacts.This helps avoid branching off into topics that she may find boring or touchy.


If she seems bored ,switch to flirting and arousing her .If she finds sex talk uncomfortable then let your sexual vibe work for you or throw chase frames her way(works if she is interested)

Me: Really? Who doesn't like tea? Coffee might make you jittery but tea is relaxing

Careful here ...this may hurt your attainability...amplifies dissimilarity.Feels more like you are judging her.

You won't find gentlemen like me often.. with a wink

Best done subtly else you are qualifying to her.She must feel like she's choosing you.Most women are intuitive enough to pick up on you being the prize.

dont like series at all.. Now I think we won't get along.. with a smirk

This should be playful .You risk pushing her away completely. Girls who are really into you will shrug it off and chase even more...with neutral or disinterested girls you may hurt ur chances to a point.

Good question to ask yourself is why you are using a tactic not using it for the sake of it(not knocking you again) .You want things to move forward not backwards or prolong the seduction than it needs be by bringing in stuff that just mucks up the interaction.Simplicity over complexity.But anyway.

You must be thinking.. oh, where am I? I'm in this new place and I dont know this guy very well..
She: Ya

Tactics Tuesdays: Stop Her Talking Herself Out of It

Ask a girl to do something, and she'll think about it. Sometimes she decides for you; sometimes not. Yet if she's about to decide "not", you MAY be able to intercept that… In sales, you learn early on to make a proposal, then shut up and let the prospect decide. "Whoever talks first loses," is...

www.girlschase.com

Stop making girls not want to sleep with you.Again, stop making it complex that u make things hard for you.If she seems uncomfortable,often times you are jumping the gun when she's not yet ready.

Not to say that you shouldn't escalate.You should buy it's often more smooth when she's ready.That doesn't mean dilly -dally and wait for signals.If she reacts to your moves positively,keep moving


Relationships and past lovers are topics best avoided unless you know what you are doing.

Tactics Tuesdays: The Lover Lens

Need to make things more romantic/sexual? Want a girl to tell you how to seduce her? Use the lover lens… and let her tell you how her past lovers have done it. One of the things I have discovered over the years is that seduction is definitely NOT "one size fits all." If you always seduce in the...

www.girlschase.com

mean you're OK looking but not too bad that someone will not like you..
She: Hey.. I'm leaving now.. with a giggle..
Me: I know someone who is cute.. come I'll show you..
She: Where?
Me: She's in my bedroom..
She: I take her to the bathroom mirror and show her...

She blushes.. I thought there is enough tension and I hold her hips with both hands.. her facing me. There is no

Doom! You tell her that she is not good-looking here which makes her even question why you want her. Then you chase her trying to show her how cute she is (in your bedroom?)

Of course her ASD kicking in is no surprise


I think ur main takeaway should be:

Set the stage for things that are to come.Otherwise you are moving things fast

Secrets to Getting Girls: Fast Baby Steps

Some guys slowly circle, other guys charge in. But if you want the most consistent results with girls, you'll do neither such thing… It'd be nice if you could approach a girl, do a few things, and she just goes right to being your girl right after that, right? Most women you'll meet aren't ready...

www.girlschase.com

May have come across harsh ...least of my intentions.Really want the best for you bro.

Bless
Chad Tyrone

 

[Skills]

i personally didn't like the 10 question stuff, i rather make stuff more about her..... But that was not the problem, she was not relax at closing place, when girls are not relax at closing place, you need to give them a bit more space and even take sex and escalations off the table till they get relax... If she is not relax and fight and flight response and stress kicks in sex is not going to happen...

usually i have them in the couch, while i can visibly see them and give them a drink or ask them if they need the bathroom....

though ideally you want to have them relax pre-going to closing location that is the point of second gen.... The none judgmental stuff is ok, but you have to address the other stuff like creeper/stalker, safety stuff, get her exited about sex etc... You wasted a lot of game capital doing other things what wasted a bit of the capital to focus on other things that were more important for the lay...

p.s. with tourist the tour guide stuff works well.... and i have a line after you get to know me you won't want to get back to _____ country future projection i always use with tourist...

 

[TomInHo]

i personally didn't like the 10 question stuff, i rather make stuff more about her..... But that was not the problem, she was not relax at closing place, when girls are not relax at closing place, you need to give them a bit more space and even take sex and escalations off the table till they get relax... If she is not relax and fight and flight response and stress kicks in sex is not going to happen...

usually i have them in the couch, while i can visibly see them and give them a drink or ask them if they need the bathroom....

though ideally you want to have them relax pre-going to closing location that is the point of second gen.... The none judgmental stuff is ok, but you have to address the other stuff like creeper/stalker, safety stuff, get her exited about sex etc... You wasted a lot of game capital doing other things what wasted a bit of the capital to focus on other things that were more important for the lay...

p.s. with tourist the tour guide stuff works well.... and i have a line after you get to know me you won't want to get back to _____ country future projection i always use with tourist...

I agree that he needed her to relax but the way he went about it was a lil off

I used to run into problems like this in the past and thought that if I just make them more “comfortable” then sex will happen. Well what ended up happening was I would go about it just like OP a get absolutely nowhere

Talk forever about nonsense hoping she would relax but that would rarely happen and they will always excuse themselves because the awkwardness was unbearable

Then eventually it clicked and I figured it out.

Because here is the deal, if she came back home with you, especially when you did light sex talk like you did then she’s there because she wants DICK

But the problem is she is feeling awkward due to unresolved sexual tension and doesn’t know how to pace the interaction.

So in these scenarios you don’t want to bring attention to the awkwardness but instead reframe it in your mind that she’s acting like that because she is nervous

And this may sound counter intuitive but the best way to handle her nervousness is to actually begin escalating as soon as possible when you get to the sex location

That’s because a lot of the time the awkwardness is an expression of unresolved sexual tension. And you might be pleasantly surprised to notice that as you start escalating she will slowly get more comfortable… But pace things by alternating between escalation and social vibes to allow her comfort to go up and realize you are safe and a cool dude to fuck

So next time with girls like that start escalating when you get home, be warm, take breaks if needed and give her a friendly massage if she’s feeling extra tense

 

[Skills]

I agree that he needed her to relax but the way he went about it was a lil off

I used to run into problems like this in the past and thought that if I just make them more “comfortable” then sex will happen. Well what ended up happening was I would go about it just like OP a get absolutely nowhere

Talk forever about nonsense hoping she would relax but that would rarely happen and they will always excuse themselves because the awkwardness was unbearable

Then eventually it clicked and I figured it out.

Because here is the deal, if she came back home with you, especially when you did light sex talk like you did then she’s there because she wants DICK

But the problem is she is feeling awkward due to unresolved sexual tension and doesn’t know how to pace the interaction.

So in these scenarios you don’t want to bring attention to the awkwardness but instead reframe it in your mind that she’s acting like that because she is nervous

And this may sound counter intuitive but the best way to handle her nervousness is to actually begin escalating as soon as possible when you get to the sex location

That’s because a lot of the time the awkwardness is an expression of unresolved sexual tension. And you might be pleasantly surprised to notice that as you start escalating she will slowly get more comfortable… But pace things by alternating between escalation and social vibes to allow her comfort to go up and realize you are safe and a cool dude to fuck

So next time with girls like that start escalating when you get home, be warm, take breaks if needed and give her a friendly massage if she’s feeling extra tense

Yes I do all that...I am talking about max 5 minutes, if they are tense or nervous, they come in, I tell them if the need to use the bathroom, they usually go wash up, then I go to bathroom or change... sometimes they take a shower... when they come out I escalate to sex... Or couch get them drink then escalate.... I found normal not jumping into anything for the first 5 minutes, relaxes them when they just walk in, usually the most sensory overload girls, though as you say if the pacing on the date is done properly when they are inside there is not need to make them feel comfortable, but beginners and intermediate when women come on are a bit more stressed and overwhelmed, nothing to do with tension per se But actual stress.... I explain It like a baby here:

 

[TomInHo]

Yes I do all that...I am talking about max 5 minutes, if they are tense or nervous, they come in, I tell them if the need to use the bathroom, they usually go wash up, then I go to bathroom or change... sometimes they take a shower... when they come out I escalate to sex... Or couch get them drink then escalate.... I found normal not jumping into anything for the first 5 minutes, relaxes them when they just walk in, usually the most sensory overload girls, though as you say if the pacing on the date is done properly when they are inside there is not need to make them feel comfortable, but beginners and intermediate when women come on are a bit more stressed and overwhelmed, nothing to do with tension per se But actual stress.... I explain It like a baby here:

For sure... you don't pounce on them when you walk in the door lol. Let them see the place and settle in for a few minutes then you start escalating. When you wait too long to make a move it makes them more "stressed"

 

[Gladiator]

Really appreciate you guys' response.. all of you provided excellent feedback.

@Chad Tyrone you're right, you pointed correctly that there was not enough emotional stimulation but honestly with no input from her, it was a herculean task.. your point of including her in the discussions would've helped I think.

Regarding teasing, I'm very calibrated and rarely I go wrong there since I have very animated facial expressions but maybe the topics could've backfired; will keep that in mind.

@Skills true I shouldn't have wasted so much time but I was trying to build enough comfort before I bounce. Anyway, all that comfort vanished once she was at my place. Her energy from how she was outside and when she was at my place was night and day difference. I'll make a note of future projection.. It's a good tip and thanks for that video.

I think @TomInHo nailed it. That unresolved tension is probably why I lose chics all the time when they get home. I'm somewhat hesitant escalating right away when she's back at my place.. to give them some space and that backfires since they think I'm nervous or something.. mirror neurons stuff. I do have felt stressed out sometimes ngl.. but with this chic I wanted to give her space.

Looking back to all the lays I've got, those all have come from chics who were totally into me and she just couldn't handle the sexual tension and was ready to go all the way once she's home or on the second date after she went back home and realized I'm not needy or creepy.

 

[Skills]

For sure... you don't pounce on them when you walk in the door lol. Let them see the place and settle in for a few minutes then you start escalating. When you wait too long to make a move it makes them more "stressed"

Yes what I am saying and said on video

 

[ShioriGC]

Background:

While things have improved and my momentum seems to have returned like pre-COVID days since I've joined this forum earlier this year, this sticking point of end game doesn't seems to have improved at all. I've mentioned this in passing a few times that closing is the hardest for me and its my main sticking point but if my closing game is fixed, I think it'll catapult my success to next level. So, I thought I'll write a detailed FR from start to finish word-for-word to give a clear picture and would appreciate your feedback.

I'd think its in the bag but one of the following would happen:

• She'll not accept to go home although she'd the date would've gone amazingly well until that point. She'd be giggling and all, even holding hands, or resting her hand on my lap and there'd be a lot of escalation but when I suggest a 'plausible deniability', she'd freak out and eject
• This is a step ahead of the last where she accepts coming home and we'd sometimes walk hand-in-hand or with arms around our waists but as she approaches my apartment, she'd ask where are we going and I'd say, 'I told you, to my apartment to watch the view from my balcony/ watch movie/ Youtube party etc.. ' whatever that plausible deniability that I had mentioned and she'd have agreed but she freaks out at this point and ejects. Since I dont like to negotiate in front of my apartment, I just say 'Goodbye' and leave.
• OR it can be a step ahead from the last where she comes along with me like a cow on leash but once we get home, she gets nervous and she'd leave shortly. Below FR is one such...

I finished work and was tired from a long day and I wanted to get some fresh air but I was tempted to stay in since I was tired but I pushed myself to go out anyway. I walked out from my apartment and walked to the waterfront which is just around 3-5 mins from where I live. Its where mostly tourists (chics) congregate. I walk there and as I walk past the bench in front of the waterfront to the grill fence, I notice a cute chic sitting alone looking at the ocean view. I notice her in my peripheral vision and continue walking to the grill. Its not very crowded... She and a couple more old people are sitting on the benches and talking. I look at the view from different angles and also look at her in my peripheral vision and she is noticing me. While I plan my opener, I take some pictures on my phone which she is intently watching...

I decided to go talk to her and I walk past her and am a couple of yards diagonally across her and I open looking behind my shoulder..

Opener:

Me: Nice view.. aye?
She: *She was wearing ear phones* Removes the earphones and says, what? (with a smile and a bit perplexed)
Me: I gestured with my hand towards the ocean and repeated myself... "Nice view..."
She: Oh yeah, very beautiful..

She was shy and nervous.. a German chic which I could tell from her accent.. and was attracted but she wasn't making eye-contact.. I thought to myself, 'Damn.. not the shy one' cos that's the one I have very difficulty seducing (which I've mentioned a few times here as well). Normally, I'd eject since such girls are not very good socially and its hard to carry the conversation with such chics. Generally I go for the social butterflies who shit test a lot but they're good in playing the game.. shy girls dont shit test a whole lot but they dont even talk. Shit tests are better than not talking at all.. Anyway, I decided to stick and see how far I can go ahead with her.. So, I continued..

I knew I had a play this completely differently than my usual process.. with a lot of compliance, patience and lead, lead, lead...

Me: Is it as beautiful in Germany?
She: How do you know? (Giggling)
Me: I can see 'Made in Germany'.. pointing to her forehead with a smirk
She: Hahahah.. no really.. how do you know?
Me: I guessed from your accent..
She: Haha ok.. So, do you know Germans?
Me: I have a lot of friends from Germany
She: Ok..

That's the most she could've talked and she went quiet. I knew I have to plough from here on.. and as expected to she gives one word answers

Me: Visiting or are you here for a long time?
She: I'm here for one year
Me: Hmm.. So, I'm guessing you're on your gap year..
She: Yes..

I guessed she's anywhere from 18 to 21..Anyway..

Me: When did you arrive..?
She: 2 weeks ago
Me: Like it so far?
She: Yes, I love it..
Me: but I sense that you dont look so (Since I noticed she looked a bit down..)
She: Ya, cos I travelled with a group and I split from the group yesterday and now I am alone
Me: That's awesome then..
She: No its not.. with a dull face
Me: Why not? You have all the freedom to whatever you want to do now.,
She: Yes but I liked to be with them..

I realised that I have to change her mood and not her mind to talk to me.. and I continued..

Me: Ya but look at all the things that you can do when you're alone.. you can travel wherever you want without bound to group rules, you can sleep at whatever time you want, wake up at your own will late in the afternoon, party like crazy.. even jump off into the ocean and nobody will bother you.. Even I won't save you, believe me...
She: hahahahaha

She cheers up a bit but still there is no hook point. She hasn't asked anything about me. I wanted to force a hook point. I soldiered on..

Me: Oh you can laugh too.. I thought you're the kinda girl who can't laugh for anything..
She: Hahaha
Me: Anyway, really if you think of all the things that you can do when you're alone and not reliant on others its fascinating isn't it? You feel so liberated..

I was using hypnotic words like freedom, liberation, living the way you want etc.. Although there was no hook point, I thought, I can use the "Judgemental people" gambit

Me: You can do anything you want and nobody judges you and that's the best you can experience as part of your travels.
She: Yes.. (acknowledging strongly what I said but with still no hook point)

At this point, I decided to call out the "Elephant in the room"...
This is all a new process for me since I'm not very adept at gaming shy girls but I really want to solve this puzzle which will open up a lot of opportunities for me.. so, I continue...

Me: I think this tells me something about you...
She: What?
Me: You're someone who doesn't talk a lot
She: No I do.. just not with strangers
Me: Everyone you've met in your life were strangers at some point in your life except your parents
She: Ya, that's true..
Me: You can only know connect with others if you start to open up..
She: I'm trying but as you know I dont have a lot of experience in life..

Now I know that she is attracted but not confident to contribute to the conversation... This was enough for me to lead her...
I ask her what her plans her for tonight and she says it is her last night in the town and she is leaving early tomorrow morning. I wondered if it was a good idea to continue or eject since she's a hard nut to crack with little time for me to seduce but I decided to go with it to see how far I can get...

Bounce:

Me: That's understandable.. Lets have a tea and I'll give you tips on how to connect with people
She: haha.. I dont drink tea
Me: Really? Who doesn't like tea? Coffee might make you jittery but tea is relaxing

I wasn't sure if it was a rejection since her facial expressions and body language were still closed off.. I wanted to nudge one last time and eject..

Me: Hmm.. lets go for a walk.. I was sitting all day and I want to go for a walk...
She: Readily accepts..

Remember still there is no hook-point but I knew by now that hook-point doesn't happen with these kind of girls and I'll have to teach her how to create a hook point..

Date:

Me: Ok, lets play a game..
She: What is it? (very excitedly..)
Me: You're going to ask me 10 questions..
She: Whaaat? That is very difficult

My plan was to weave in comfort with these questions.. I knew there was attraction, which will make seduction easier.

Me: Of course, there is no pressure.. take it slow, think and come up with questions but as you progress, your questions should get more deep..
She: Oh..
Me: Come on.. I trust you, you can do it
She: Ok, I will try..
Me: Go with the first one..

Question 1:

She: What do you work?
Me: Not bad for a first question.. I work as an Analyst
She: Ok..
Me: Do you know what that is?
She: No, tell me..
Me: I explain it to her..

...and then I ask her what her dreams are and what her career plans are.. She says she is trying to find herself and see where life takes her.
Now there are incidental touches which she's ok with. One step forward, two steps backwards.
At one point I hold her hand while crossing the street and say to her..

Me: When you call your Mom, let her know I saved you today
She giggles

Question 2:

Me: What is your favorite color?

I thought this was really naive but cute at the same time

Me: Red but you'd hardly see me wearing Red. I mostly like to wear black. What's your favorite color?
She: Blue
Me: Like the vast sky which is open to a lot of opportunities.

I induce hypnotic suggestion wherever possible

She: Yes
Me: You know colors that you like can give clues about your personality
She: Really?
Me: Ya, for example.. someone who likes pink are very bubbly and cheerful.. and those who like black are mysterious etc

I reward her every now and then..

Me: I thought you don't really know to talk to strangers.. Not bad for coming up with interesting questions..

She's elated at this point like getting praised from her Dad.. well.. I'm in my 30s, so possible.. Isn't it?
We stop here and there for her to take pictures..

Question 3:

She: what's your favorite country?
Me: Netherlands.. Amsterdam..
She: oh wow.. I love there too.. have you been to Germany?
Me: No, I didn't have time to go to Germany.. But hey I'm still young.. I can go there again.. but about Amsterdam, I like the freedom and non-judgemental attitude of people there
She: True..

As these questions are gaining momentum, I'm trying to move faster...

Question 4:

She: How old are you?
Me: 65. With a deadpan expression
She: Hahahaha
Me: Still not smiling and say, I'm serious

Believe it or not, some nerdy chics do believe it.. but not this one..

She: No, you dont look so..
Me: I've got a plastic surgery done and I take care of myself
She: hahah.. no, tell me
Me: What do you think?
She: I'm very bad at guessing.. tell me
Me: Ok, will tell you later.. now onto the next question..

Basic shit tests are part of women's biology I think..

Question 5:

She: How tall are you?
Me: I'm 3 feet
She: How much is that in meters? I dont know feet
Me: 90 cms

Thinks for a few secs.. and laughs again..

She: Hahahaah.. No tell me..
He: I'm right next to you.. you can guess
She: Something like 175cms?
He: Me.. yeah.. (I'm 5'8")

Question 6:

She: What is your favourite food?
Me: I'm a pescatarian.. So, I have limited choices but I'm not too fussy about food in general
She: What is that?
Me: I eat only seafood and no meat.. of course veggies..

One thing I've noticed with these kind of nerdy chics is, they're sapiosexual.. if you have a rich vocabulary and use words they're not familiar with, they think you're intelligent.. and her expression changed and she was getting more comfortable..

She: Ok
Me: If I have to choose, I'd say I like Teriyaki Salmon don (Japanese) and brunch (eggs benny with salmon).. you?
She: She said some German cuisine..

I didn't need to qualify her a lot since more than anything she needed comfort..but still I qualified with a basic qualification.. just to not forget the basics

Me: Do you cook?
She: Ya, I love cooking and I like baking...

I seeded a pull and said, we should cook at my place sometime..

She: Ya, we can do that but we need to buy some stuff I dont think we can find here..

I dont know when a girl is too naive sometimes I feel guilty for seducing her.. but I dont know if it was her naivety or she was playing along.. although she did sound naive..

Me: Well, then lets start with egg omelette then.. with a smirk
She: hahaha.. we can do that..
Me: Talking about food, I feel like eating an ice cream now
She: That's a good idea..
Me: Let me find one..

I look for one on google maps and there was nothing around but there was one 10 mins walk away and closer to my place. I say, lets go here and she follows..

Question 7:

She: What is your favorite pet?
Me: I love dogs..
I show a picture of me with a dog
She: Very cute
Me: Do you have any pets?
She: Yes, I have a rabbit..and a cat

We talk about pets for sometime... This is completely different game for me.. there is not high physical escalation except occasional touching since she needed a lot of comfort..

Question 8:

She: Do you have siblings?
Me: I have an elder sister...You?
She: I have a brother and a sister
Me: ..and you're the youngest?
She: No, I'm younger than my brother and elder than my sister
Me: So.. not a spoilt brat?
She: hahaha.. I'm not
Me: Your sister must be..
She: No.. she is very shy.. I'm actually the crazy one.. hahaha
Me: I can tell..
She: How?
Me: I know that you're cat from outside and tiger from inside.. make a strong eye-contact but she can't hold that tension.. so, I break it off quickly..

I take a break here and say.. you've been doing amazing with your questions.. let me ask you a question this time..

She: *excited*
Me: What fascinates you in life?
She: Hmm.. that's a difficult question..
Me: Take your time..
She: I think humans..
Me: What about them?
She: You just can't say what they're thinking and what they want..
Me: True
She: For example, in the hostel I'm staying, I have 3 men and I'm the only girl in the room.. they all look at me all the time and its scary and creepy..

I guess, she was comfortable but not comfortable to trust me a lot.. So, I took charge and did some contrasting..

Me: Ya, I can totally relate.. most men are dogs..
She: hahaha
Me: You won't find gentlemen like me often.. with a wink
She: Oh.. ya, at least you're not creepy..

I reward her by poking her belly..

Me: Ya, seriously I can imagine how hard it is to be a woman.. I mean you have your advantages of being a woman but it comes with a lot of risk too.. Risk at every stage.. both physically and emotionally. You're judged at every stage.. for your dressing, your looks, being sexual etc..

By this point, she was comfortable for 2nd gen verbals...

Me: If a man sleeps around, he is a stud but a woman is slutty if she does the same.. I dont find that right somehow..
She: Deer with headlights look
Me: I mean men are anatomically designed for sex without emotions.. a guy can get horny anytime and fuck but for a woman, she needs to be mentally stimulated and most guys dont know this and they think if a woman sleeps around she is a slut.. its not that easy for her to just fuck anyone. She needs to be comfortable, emotionally stimulated and feel the passion even before having sex.. So, saying she is a slut is not the right thing to say, I'd see her as someone who is passionate and who loves herself and lets go of control and what society thinks and lives her life to the fullest..
Me: That is one thing I'm a bit fascinated about women, they can feel a range of emotions in a short period of time and I think emotions are what drives the orgasms and they can orgasm really good, when they are emotionally stimulated by the right person in a right environment.. specially when they have sex, they can orgasm in many different ways.. unlike men.

I wanted to see if I'm inflating it and took a break here.. I think she was already overwhelmed at this point.. since she didn't ask me about orgasms.. or else I was planning to deliver the 8 orgasms routine.. btw, I use that routine only on very sexually liberated girls anyway..so, switched back to social..

Me: Anyway, your next question..

Question 9:
She: Where are you from?
Me: Mars planet
She: Hahaha.. sure
Me: I know..
She: No tell me..
Me: Do you know Bangalore..?
She: Yes, I do..
Me: Its the IT capital of India...
She: Ya, I know that..
Me: You said you don't know to talk to strangers.. now you have asked me 9 questions effortlessly... that's amazing..

We had reached the ice-cream parlour and we got our ice-creams. By this stage, she was pretty comfortable with me.. but not enough to have sex.. I thought..
We fluff talked a bit here and it was already 8.30.. I had to move faster..
Although all of these questions sounds like they were a lot.. it took just over an hour.. and I thought I had done good enough job so far..

Me: So, you have your final questions.. use it wisely

By this point, she also had become very good with her questions...

Question 10:
She: What is something unique about you?
Me: Wow! I wouldn't have guessed that you can ask something like that... look you've totally learnt to socialise with strangers now
She: Yay!
Me: That's an interesting question.. but the answer depends on how open-minded you are.. For ex: I could say, I've been told I'm a very warm person from people who know me well...
She: I can agree with that..
Me: Or I can say, I'm very good in bed...
She: She just smiles...

I knew she was ready to bounce...

Pull:

Me: What is your favourite movie btw?
She: Oh I dont watch movies.. I like series
Me: Oh I dont like series at all.. Now I think we won't get along.. with a smirk
She: hahaha
Me: I like to watch random videos on Youtube though
She: I do that more with TikTok..
Me: Lets go do a Youtube party..
She: Where?
Me: At my place
She: Oh.. I need to go. I have my bus in the morning and I haven't packed anything. Also, my hostel door closes at 10 PM and I dont have the key
Me: Don't you use Goki App?
She: No, what is that?
Me: Its this.. you can download and you can get in whenever you want
She: Oh no and I dont want to risk..

I thought, worst case she can sleep at my place..

Me: Well its only 8.30 and we still have 1.30mins....
She: Ya, that's right
Me: Lets go..
She: Sure, why not?

She grabs both of our cups and drops in the trash bin..

Me: That was nice.. you didn't leave them there
She: Ya, we have to do our bit for the environment..
Me: Nice.. I totally agree with you...

This was a good topic to keep her anxiety down until we get to my apartment and we talk about environment etc

I ask her to remove her shoes and she does. I take her to the balcony to show the view and we get back to playing videos on Youtube. She looks nervous... she is sitting on the edge of the couch

Me: Are you ok?
She: Ya..

I pace and lead..

Me: You must be thinking.. oh, where am I? I'm in this new place and I dont know this guy very well..
She: Ya
Me: Don't worry you're in the safest place on earth
She: If my mom knows I'm here, she'll freak out...

I play it as a joke to change her mood... I thought loosening herself up will relieve her nervousness and I suggest we dance.. I play bachata music and we dance..
She enjoys dancing and she looks much better now..

Me: You're a good dancer..
She: No, I'm not..
Me: You did dance well now..

She doesn't seem to have her mind right here and still seems nervous..

Me: Now lets play your choice.. what shall I play?
She: Hmm.. Taylor swift?
Me: Any song in particular?
She: No.. anything will do..

I play different songs and we dance some more but she doesn't seem to be able to relax. She asks for water and then I remember that she had mentioned that she likes cuddling...

Me: Come here, you need some good cuddling
She: She half-ass nudges into me..
Me: Anyway, what is that you seem to like about relationships... (In one of the posts @fog had suggested that I elicit her sexual values to build sexual comfort and I asked this but it didnt seem to go in the direction I wanted)
She: I want to be loved..
Me: Ya, that's so important right? Someone has to accept you as you are...
She: Totally..,

Just to lighten the situation.. I tease a bit..

Me: I mean you're OK looking but not too bad that someone will not like you..
She: Hey.. I'm leaving now.. with a giggle..
Me: I know someone who is cute.. come I'll show you..
She: Where?
Me: She's in my bedroom..
She: I take her to the bathroom mirror and show her...

She blushes.. I thought there is enough tension and I hold her hips with both hands.. her facing me. There is no distance between us but her head is tilted back and I thought she's not ready and we walk outside.. to the living room again. I never persist physically when it comes to kissing or sex. That's my rule to avoid any problems. We go back to the couch and we continue talking... then I suggest we should just dance to the music.. not any latin dance... then we sway our bodies and she loosens up a bit and I bring her closer to me again holding her waist and she is still not very comfortable.. the song ends and she declares she needs to leave.

I say, all good. She asks me how to leave the apartment and I said I'll drop her outside and bring her down the elevator and see her off outside the building.
I thought to myself, another end-stage failure... as I take the elevator back...

Key Points:

There were still a few wins:

• I could think on my feet for 10 questions strategy and executed well...
• I finally have a process for shy girls. Maybe I need more refining and if I have more time, I can do better. Not SDL but maybe first date?
• I calibrated really well and there were no glitches
• I could come up with anti-dotes for all her objections which were very convincing for her
• Though my typical game is physical escalation, I could bring her home with verbal escalation alone

I've had lots and lots of these and much weirder ones.. I still can't pinpoint what I do wrong and what I dont do right?
In this particular instance, it could be:

• Wrong target selection?
• Lack of time... it was too fast?
• or too slow?
• or my end stage game is weak?
• In one of the posts, @fog suggested I elicit her sexual values. Keeping that in mind, I asked her what kind of guy she is looking for and she said she
• I have a subconscious feeling that its wrong to seduce girls as young as 18 or 19, me being in my 30s and this flares its ugly head during seduction. I think lose my momentum when I think of it and perhaps chics can pickup on that loss of vibe and incongruence?
• or completely something that I'm blindsided to
• or something that you want to suggest?

Date lasted 3+ hours.. from opener until she left...

I'm all ears for your feedback!

Cheers
Gladiator

From a noobs perspective, i just want to applaud your skill and courage to approach, risk rejection multiple times and get her to come back to your place.

its impressive to read

 

[Beck Bass]

Just to lighten the situation.. I tease a bit..

Me: I mean you're OK looking but not too bad that someone will not like you..

Lol that "teasing" is more on the side of negging tbh, you gotta be very careful with autorejection, specially with shy girls.

So in these scenarios you don’t want to bring attention to the awkwardness but instead reframe it in your mind that she’s acting like that because she is nervous

And this may sound counter intuitive but the best way to handle her nervousness is to actually begin escalating as soon as possible when you get to the sex location

Very true, sometimes guys are too much into the "oh girls need to be confortable to get to sex" and then they go overboard, kill the sexual vibe, burst the bubble and fuck up the lay. Focus on kino, keep on moving forward, let the technical meta verbal strategy stuff for when you actually hit a roadblock and need that. I think most guys just overthink closing, to be fair

From a noobs perspective, i just want to applaud your skill and courage to approach, risk rejection multiple times and get her to come back to your place.

its impressive to read

Indeed, it's very decent game until it goes to his appartment and he gets nervous and it all goes south