My first "almost there". What went wrong?

[nihonshuttler]

Note: I posted this by mistake in Journals board. So posting again here till the time the other gets deleted by moderators.

Let's start. Recently I went to a meetup event, and first thing getting in I saw a bunch of girls at a table. I saw a pretty girl and made by way into the group "Excuse me, would you mind if I join you?". We exchanged introductions and I got to know her name is Mai (changed ofc). The table was very crowded so I asked her whether she was alone (which she was) and asked her to move to a different table which she happily agreed to. From there we hit it off to a good conversation, I deep dived, touch her at the high points and moved her (to the bar to get another drink). Thins were going well ; just that in between a guy and a girl joined our conversation in between. They were irritating but still I interacted with them especially the girl to build social proof. Soon enough I whispered to Mai that its almost the end time for the meetup and how about we head out for a walk. She happily agreed. Now the escalation starts here. We headed out towards the station and after naturally our arms a few times I put my hands on her back and her waist. I asked her about her plans after this and she said that she has to get up early tomorrow as she was going to a beach for her friend's birthday. I suggested that we can head to her place for chilling a watching something. She refused. I ignored it and instead suggested that I will give her company in her train until Shibuya (yes I am in tokyo) and will take my train from there. We got into the train and I was flirting with her, my hands on her lap and just talking. I again suggested that we should go to her place and watch one episode of TBBT and then I will head home. She refused again. But after we got down she called her friends. After a while of talking she said her friends are waiting for her (she lived in a sharehouse) so it would not be possible to go to her home. I ignored that and continued flirting touching her and suggested her that I would drop her off to her station and then I could head back. I said I like traveling in train and I even keep a book to read (which I do). As I was getting onboard she said no a couple of times and even put her hand on my chest saying no. At this point, I gave up and thought I would not go. She genuinely does not want it tonight.
I came home disappointed only to find out the next day that I was blocked.

Can people please share your feedback on this? What could I have done better? This was my first case of "almost there". It was fun while it lasted though.

 

[James D]

I deep dived,

How did this go?

On what did you deep dive her?

How was her response to that deep dive?

Did you get a sense she felt connected to you?

Now the escalation starts here

About this...

We headed out towards the station and after naturally our arms a few times I put my hands on her back and her waist.

Was that the escalation?
How long was it?
And how long after you proposed to go to her place?

how about we head out for a walk

Are you sure she didn't accompany you for a walk as a natural step given that the event was almost over rather than because she was having such a good time with you?

Overall, when you think back at the interaction, would you say she knew that you intended for this interaction to turn into a sexual one?

 

[POB]

Note: I posted this by mistake in Journals board. So posting again here till the time the other gets deleted by moderators.

When you do that, don't repost.
Just ask one of us to move it for you.
This way you won't need to delete the original.

 

[Skills]

Note: I posted this by mistake in Journals board. So posting again here till the time the other gets deleted by moderators.

Let's start. Recently I went to a meetup event, and first thing getting in I saw a bunch of girls at a table. I saw a pretty girl and made by way into the group "Excuse me, would you mind if I join you?". We exchanged introductions and I got to know her name is Mai (changed ofc). The table was very crowded so I asked her whether she was alone (which she was) and asked her to move to a different table which she happily agreed to. From there we hit it off to a good conversation, I deep dived, touch her at the high points and moved her (to the bar to get another drink). Thins were going well ; just that in between a guy and a girl joined our conversation in between. They were irritating but still I interacted with them especially the girl to build social proof. Soon enough I whispered to Mai that its almost the end time for the meetup and how about we head out for a walk. She happily agreed. Now the escalation starts here. We headed out towards the station and after naturally our arms a few times I put my hands on her back and her waist. I asked her about her plans after this and she said that she has to get up early tomorrow as she was going to a beach for her friend's birthday. I suggested that we can head to her place for chilling a watching something. She refused. I ignored it and instead suggested that I will give her company in her train until Shibuya (yes I am in tokyo) and will take my train from there. We got into the train and I was flirting with her, my hands on her lap and just talking. I again suggested that we should go to her place and watch one episode of TBBT and then I will head home. She refused again. But after we got down she called her friends. After a while of talking she said her friends are waiting for her (she lived in a sharehouse) so it would not be possible to go to her home. I ignored that and continued flirting touching her and suggested her that I would drop her off to her station and then I could head back. I said I like traveling in train and I even keep a book to read (which I do). As I was getting onboard she said no a couple of times and even put her hand on my chest saying no. At this point, I gave up and thought I would not go. She genuinely does not want it tonight.
I came home disappointed only to find out the next day that I was blocked.

Can people please share your feedback on this? What could I have done better? This was my first case of "almost there". It was fun while it lasted though.

she just was not ready needed more comfort and arousal, you needed a bit more time to uncover and address the objections, some girls will put mental block if logistics are not there (not turn on and comfortable enough and has an activity in the morning occupying her mind, not all the times some girls if they are turn on enough comfortable enough can do it even if they have to work in couple of hours, talking in general)... Try not to plow too much if you don't think you have the lay (i don't know how much experience you have with experience you get a feel), and save for next if is not there...

p.s. i totally hate the hand in the middle of back escalation move, nothing screams beta boy harder than that escalation but that is me...but not what cost you the lay, just that i hate that move...

 

[nihonshuttler]

How did this go?

On what did you deep dive her?

How was her response to that deep dive?

Did you get a sense she felt connected to you?

@James D
I asked her questions from Chase's post on https://www.girlschase.com/content/what-does-she-want-8-things-you-must-ask-her
I asked her about her hobbies, her childhood, her travel bucket list. She was enthusiastically sharing about each of these topics. I am not a pro yet at these things, but I got a good vibe from her. She was definitely into me. We had long eye contacts and I totally had the feeling that I want to bang her tonight.

Was that the escalation?
How long was it?
And how long after you proposed to go to her place?

That was a 3-4 minutes walk till we reached the station. I had my hand on her back, shoulders (I am not confident with escalating with touch yet). I proposed the idea of going to her home about 1-2 minutes into the walk.

Are you sure she didn't accompany you for a walk as a natural step given that the event was almost over rather than because she was having such a good time with you?

I am not sure of this. It could be the earlier one, it could also be that she wanted to get home early.

Overall, when you think back at the interaction, would you say she knew that you intended for this interaction to turn into a sexual one?

Hmm good question. I had that intention that I want to turn it into a sexual one. Did she know it from the start? Probably not. She probably must have thought we would meet for a date later. She was definitely attracted to me, but only after I proposed going to her might have she known that I intend to turn it into a sexual one TODAY!

 

[nihonshuttler]

When you do that, don't repost.
Just ask one of us to move it for you.
This way you won't need to delete the original.

Thanks @POB. Will take care from next time. I have tagged you in the other post. Could you please follow up

 

[nihonshuttler]

she just was not ready needed more comfort and arousal, you needed a bit more time to uncover and address the objections,

@Skills I am concerned about "not moving too slow" vs "needing a bit more time to arouse her".

• Is it that once I proposed the idea of going to her place (when she was showing interest in me) and she rejected it, I can take some more time to arouse her and address her objections? or
• Should I take more time to arouse her to some level and only then propose this idea of going to her place?

Try not to plow too much if you don't think you have the lay (i don't know how much experience you have with experience you get a feel),

I would say i don't have much experience there. To get the feel whether I have the lay, probably Chase's article on screening logistics should help: https://www.girlschase.com/article/how-screen-girls-logistics

p.s. i totally hate the hand in the middle of back escalation move, nothing screams beta boy harder than that escalation but that is me...but not what cost you the lay, just that i hate that move...

What escalations would you suggest instead?

 

[Will_V]

Note: I posted this by mistake in Journals board. So posting again here till the time the other gets deleted by moderators.

Let's start. Recently I went to a meetup event, and first thing getting in I saw a bunch of girls at a table. I saw a pretty girl and made by way into the group "Excuse me, would you mind if I join you?". We exchanged introductions and I got to know her name is Mai (changed ofc). The table was very crowded so I asked her whether she was alone (which she was) and asked her to move to a different table which she happily agreed to. From there we hit it off to a good conversation, I deep dived, touch her at the high points and moved her (to the bar to get another drink). Thins were going well ; just that in between a guy and a girl joined our conversation in between. They were irritating but still I interacted with them especially the girl to build social proof. Soon enough I whispered to Mai that its almost the end time for the meetup and how about we head out for a walk. She happily agreed. Now the escalation starts here. We headed out towards the station and after naturally our arms a few times I put my hands on her back and her waist. I asked her about her plans after this and she said that she has to get up early tomorrow as she was going to a beach for her friend's birthday. I suggested that we can head to her place for chilling a watching something. She refused. I ignored it and instead suggested that I will give her company in her train until Shibuya (yes I am in tokyo) and will take my train from there. We got into the train and I was flirting with her, my hands on her lap and just talking. I again suggested that we should go to her place and watch one episode of TBBT and then I will head home. She refused again. But after we got down she called her friends. After a while of talking she said her friends are waiting for her (she lived in a sharehouse) so it would not be possible to go to her home. I ignored that and continued flirting touching her and suggested her that I would drop her off to her station and then I could head back. I said I like traveling in train and I even keep a book to read (which I do). As I was getting onboard she said no a couple of times and even put her hand on my chest saying no. At this point, I gave up and thought I would not go. She genuinely does not want it tonight.
I came home disappointed only to find out the next day that I was blocked.

Can people please share your feedback on this? What could I have done better? This was my first case of "almost there". It was fun while it lasted though.

So she lives in a sharehouse in Japan, and you tried to invite yourself home? This isn't likely to work. Girls tend to avoid bringing guys to their own places for a multitude of reasons, and I imagine those reasons are even stronger in a culture like that one.

Do you have your own pad?

 

[Rakehell]

She refused. I ignored it and instead suggested that I will give her company in her train until Shibuya (yes I am in tokyo) and will take my train from there. We got into the train and I was flirting with her, my hands on her lap and just talking.

not bad but everything is reading one sided, “I touched her”, “I flirted with her”, I wonder how she was responding to it.

She refused again. But after we got down she called her friends. After a while of talking she said her friends are waiting for her (she lived in a sharehouse) so it would not be possible to go to her home. I ignored that and continued flirting touching her and suggested her that I would drop her off to her station and then I could head back. I said I like traveling in train and I even keep a book to read (which I do). As I was getting onboard she said no a couple of times and even put her hand on my chest saying no.

Regular flirting/reaching over to touch her doesn’t actually do much when you’re trying to build up the sexual vibe. She might allow it but it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s having the desired effect. I rather opt for

Things like actively bringing her into me so our bodies touch mutually sometimes pulling away, hair pulling, locking eyes but not saying anything, pointing it out to her when she looks turned on. Things that actively make her want to have or think about sex, that brings her into the process.

Its nolonger a question at that point of where her head is at

I came home disappointed only to find out the next day that I was blocked.

My read is things were mostly one sided post bar & share house might’ve been plausible deniability.

Maybe she wasn’t feeling it/horny enough or knew exactly what you were trying to communicate and just wanted no parts.

Maybe couldve opted out pre train ride but no fun in that!

My 2cents

 

[nihonshuttler]

So she lives in a sharehouse in Japan, and you tried to invite yourself home? This isn't likely to work. Girls tend to avoid bringing guys to their own places for a multitude of reasons, and I imagine those reasons are even stronger in a culture like that one.

Do you have your own pad?

Yes @Will_V, I have my own pad. However my place was much further from there compared to here. That's why I suggested going to her place. But I get what you are saying, she would probably be more comfortable coming to my place rather than her sharehouse.

 

[nihonshuttler]

Things like actively bringing her into me so our bodies touch mutually sometimes pulling away, hair pulling, locking eyes but not saying anything, pointing it out to her when she looks turned on. Things that actively make her want to have or think about sex, that brings her into the process.

That's interesting @Rakehell . I do wonder what kind of things I can do other than just blatantly touching her. I like the imagery of locking eyes but not saying anything. I have been comfortable initiating such things in the past when I was alone with a girl and have met her a few times before escalating.
But leading with some girl I just met or when having people around (like at a metro station) is still difficult for me. If you have any suggestions on this I am all ears.

 

[Will_V]

Yes @Will_V, I have my own pad. However my place was much further from there compared to here. That's why I suggested going to her place. But I get what you are saying, she would probably be more comfortable coming to my place rather than her sharehouse.

Well you are asking 'what went wrong', seems to me this could have been the entire problem.

Based on what you wrote:
1. She never agreed to you coming home
2. On the train ride she calls her friends and then tells you they are waiting for her, this would be a huge obstacle even if you did make it there
3. As you get close to her place she puts her hand on your chest to make it very clear she doesn't want you to come

So my reading is that there is some combination of:
a) she doesn't want her housemates to see her banging some dude she just met
b) she isn't comfortable having you inside her home, maybe she isn't comfortable with you yet

This concern had to be dealt with instead of ignoring it and inviting yourself along to her trip home. That's why she blocked you because she didn't trust that you could read her signals.

Anyways well done on getting that far and being persistent, sometimes it's hard to read womens signals and know when you can push a little and when you need to pull back, definitely asian girls can be a bit more difficult than most.

 

[nihonshuttler]

Thanks @Will_V . Appreciate it!

 

[Skills]

@Skills I am concerned about "not moving too slow" vs "needing a bit more time to arouse her".

• Is it that once I proposed the idea of going to her place (when she was showing interest in me) and she rejected it, I can take some more time to arouse her and address her objections? or
• Should I take more time to arouse her to some level and only then propose this idea of going to her place?

I would say i don't have much experience there. To get the feel whether I have the lay, probably Chase's article on screening logistics should help: https://www.girlschase.com/article/how-screen-girls-logistics


What escalations would you suggest instead?

no man you misunderstood, i said uncover objection, why she was resisting and time to address them during interaction, that has nothing to do with that chase article...

 

[Rakehell]

But leading with some girl I just met or when having people around (like at a metro station) is still difficult for me. If you have any suggestions on this I am all ears.

By starting small, you don’t have to do all of those things, it’s more of a loose guideline of the kind of dominant behaviors that can kick an interaction up to a more sensual level.

Context matters and stuff like that is probably best saved for later on anyway.

But I digress—starting small, the community calls them “micro escalations”, will make her more comfortable and you more confident with bigger escalation moves that definitively turn her on like the ones I described.

Think of it like warming her up, 60yoc the guy who I believe coined the phrase (could be wrong) has a fleshed out book on micro escalations.

Off the top of my head things like softening your eye contact, making your voice more sensual, standing closer to her, whispering in her ear, verbally having her come closer to you and complying with things that move things toward a sensual interaction.

All of these are kind of “feeler” moves that help you to identify where she is in the interaction. Even if you overreach theres virtually no consequence because they aren’t super blatant, but you do eventually have to make those kinds of moves.

———
And to add on, when you do these micro escalations often times you can get a feel for where she’s at, and dial back if she seems apprehensive/not reciprocating or worse, taking away from the vibe.

This works in tangent with what @Skills was saying about uncovering and resolving her objections, oftentimes without her having to express them verbally herself.

You can probe and make an educated guess as to what might be holding her back when it feels correct to do so. Expressing yourself in a way that shows her it is okay to go along with it. Not always necessary but helps a ton.

 

[nihonshuttler]

Thanks @Rakehell ! That's good food for thought. I understand what you mean by micro escalations and will research more about it. I can imagine how these "feeler" moves can help fine tune my game.