New Conundrum with Model! Now what?

[DaddyD]

Hi guys! This journal entry is about the same girl I mentioned in my last postings. If you haven't done so already, feel free to go over this link to get up to date on my present situation: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11561

Something very... UNUSUAL happened, and anyways, if there's any time I could really use advice from you guys, it's now! After my first date with said model, I didn't text her till about a couple days later. She said this:

You never responded to my FB message so I thought you were mad.

I simply brushed it off as me being busy, and she said, "same". Anyways, I didn't text her again till 5 days later! I guess I had other things on my mind during the week and didn't see much point in pursuing her. She didn't respond back till a day later. Here's a snippet of our conversation:

Her: I have something I have really wanted to tell you

Me: Okay. Shoot.

Her: It made me VERY uncomfortable when you tried to kiss me at the restaurant. Even if I was single, a guy should NEVER EVER make a move like that on the first "date". It was very inappropriate and ANY girl would feel the same way. I'm saying this as a girl, please don't ever do that to anyone!! First dates are meant to get to know someone, not pursue a physical thing. It comes off as desperate.

Okay, first off, we all agree that part about not pursuing a physical thing on a first date is total crap, right? We all know that the sooner you bed a girl, the better chance you have at a relationship with said girl. Also, isn't it quite funny how she would seem to hold onto to this for so long, only to "blast" it on me tonight? Hmm, did I strike a chord? This above conversation almost gives me the "potential boyfriend" vibe, especially considering that she didn't explicitly identify me as merely a friend.

So far, my two main theories is that she either really has slotted me as a potential boyfriend and is upset that I tried to escalate things quickly, or she just wants me as a friend and is REALLY upset I would have the gumption to try to pursue something other than a friendship. I get a feeling that she may be trying to pass herself off as the "good girl". Like how she says she does girl's night, but doesn't drink, etc.

What do you guys think the appropriate response is? I feel like I should challenge her statements on first dates and put up a dominant front. Perhaps something like this:

Uhm, who made you the absolute authority on first dates? First dates are never meant to be physical? Ha! Tell that to the girls I brought back and screwed on the first date.

Something like this might work too:

Thanks for the condescending lecture grandma, but this is the 21st century. I can bang any chick who wants to fuck on the first date.

These are just a couple examples of what I might say to her. Maybe you guys have way better ideas. I'm sure comments like this are likely to piss her off, but the way I see it, a dominant man doesn't let a woman talk down to him. What do you all think? What should I say to her after getting some sleep tonight?

 

[JPWorld]

Hey bud,

I think there are a number of ways to approach this one and someone with more experience can happily chip in over me.

I think that although her tone is serious and "that is NOT acceptable", I think you should try and play it half flirty/fun and half serious, otherwise you will just get in an argument, which is pathetic and will lead nowhere.

I like the grandma thing, but make it more fun. Maybe something like this:

Thanks for lecture, grandma But I don't think guys should wait to show their emotions on whether they like someone. I'm not gonna be some guy who's gonna pussy-foot around, if you don't like that, that's fair game - there are tons of guys who MIGHT make a move on date 17. That's not me, baby.

I think that shows dominance and how you're different from most guys, without an arrogant "I fuck whoever I want on whatever date I want" kind of vibe.

But my questions is what do you really want from this girl? Just a lay or a potential GF? Or are you happy to cut ties and NEXT her?

Your answer to that question will affect your responding message, I think.

- JP

 

[DaddyD]

Wow! Great line. Thanks JPWorld! That does sound a lot better than the examples I provided, which were a bit too aggressive/argumentative I admit. lol I guess I was kind of trying to go for a bad-boyish type response. Looks like I need to work on the flirtatious/tease part a bit more.

 

[JPWorld]

No problem!

Nah I totally understand where you were coming from and I used to struggle with the dominant bad-boy thing, and was just too nice. Just treating everything as fun and flirty is a good medium and goes with the "all girls are silly and cute" mindset, no matter what they're calling you out on.

Hope it goes well for ya!

- JP

 

[trashKENNUT]

Red flag.

Please do not proceed. For some reason, please do not proceed.

Zac

 

[DaddyD]

Can you elaborate a bit more why I shouldn't proceed ZacAdam? I'm not too big of a fan of vague warnings. If there's something I should know, please tell me.

 

[DaddyD]

As far as your questions JPWorld, I think I would be interested in turning her into a girlfriend. Although, I realize it might not be an easy thing. I think I would feel reasonably satisfied banging her every now and again until she left her boyfriend. As far as simply cutting her off, that might sting a bit emotionally. I feel like we got a lot in common and we've had this great energy between us. I am willing to go out and find other girls though. In my posting in the beginners board, I talked a little about how I might kind of be the guy she simply runs into now and again and then pounce when she leaves her boyfriend. Depending on things, that may be my best option. What do you think?

 

[trashKENNUT]

DaddyD,

I read your field report. But it is more important why i feel it is red flag.

1)If i am not mistaken, there were few mistakes which you didn't bed her, yet.
2)Her response from Facebook and the kiss text part where she make a big fuss is putting you in a tough case position. I have a few experiences with such girls. Not so nice girls if i am correct in what you tell me in your post
3)Tough cases. Check out Chase article

Zac

 

[Sophisticated Gent]

I hope this girl is super hot. She is being a big pain. I read this as an escalation by her wanting to get together with you again but you waited to long to get back with her after the date. I think you would have been ok after the first time you ignored the FB message. Then you waited 5 days to contact her again. Now she is sure you are blowing her off. She is probably not used to guys not ignoring her. She gets defensive and pissed. She lets you have it about the first date crap. If you had asked her out again it would have been ok.

If you respond to her with the negative undertones you end your chances with her. Understand she is not upset about the kiss attempt. She is upset at your lack of attention. Ok so here is my concern. I think she sees you as boyfriend material. If you want her as a girlfriend that is fine but first you have to bed her or it will be a long time before she will sleeps with you. Bedding her right away means you have to change her perception of you as a lover instead of a boyfriend. This will be tough. You will have to be dominate. You can't apologize or be negative. Your reply should be something like.

I understand. I enjoyed our time together. Come over to my place and we can have dinner and a movie. How about Tuesday evening?

The "I understand" lets her know you acknowledge her last text but that you are not necessarily agree with its premise. No apologizing or agreeing here.

Then change the subject to something positive. I enjoyed our time together. Maybe be more personal. Bring up something you laughed about or something you had mutual interest in. Keep it short.

Then ask her over to your place. Set a time and day. She can change it if it doesn't work for her. She may tell you to go pound sand or she may agree. If she tells you no it is time to move on.

If you get the next date you are going to have to escalate with touching first then move to making out and then sex. If she leaves without the sex you will have been boyfriended.

Good luck.

BDSC

 

[DaddyD]

Here is a follow-up of what happened next. I texted her last night and she did seem warmer, and I even still sensed a certain degree of willful compliance on her part, with her often responding VERY quickly to texts. However, I wasn't able to secure a date. I tried for a study date. This is some dialogue from the conversation:

Me: My native studies test is next week. Little anxious about that. lol

Her: You'll do fine haha

Me: You said you could help me study for that exam. If you came over and helped, I'd certainly appreciate it.

Her: Sorry I'm super busy all week

Me: I understand. It happens. We should get together at the gym when you're not busy. I want to know your workout secrets! haha

Her: haha I have lots!

So yeah, I basically just played it off cool and casually while communicating an interest in getting together sometime. To be fair, she may legitimately be busy. I remember how even on our first date, she was mentioning she'd be busy for a couple of weeks doing things like moving in. Although, I also wonder if this could be some sort of punishment if she's still a bit upset at me. I really hope I didn't royally screw this and put her into auto-rejection. I seem to have kind of a bad habit of shutting down on a girl if I don't immediately get what I want. I felt like smacking myself. Don't know why I do such numb-skulled crap. That's why I'm here though. To learn all this good jazz.

Anyways, I read Chase's article on text/phone splitting, and I think I'll try calling her tomorrow. I'm often used to girls not picking up when they get calls though. I wondered if I ought to text her today, but somehow, I'm not so sure that's a great idea. Seems kind of needy, apologetic, obvious, etc. I will keep trying to work her over in a cool persistent way and hopefully get a second date. As always, your advice, words of encouragement, etc. are deeply appreciated.

 

[JPWorld]

DaddyD,

Out of interest, when you messaged her back, did you use my structure of the message or the one of BDSC? As that would be interesting to know which path you chose.

In terms of your answers, I do agree with BDSC, too, by saying she's being a bit of a pain, BUT at the same time she does have a boyfriend (whatever that really means to her).

As you say, if she is a high-value creature which you see as a potential girlfriend, that could work but would be tricky, especially if she is still with her boyf. Although it's still difficult, it would be easier to bang her and keep her as a lover for a while, rather than bang her and try and convert her into your girlfriend. She'll find that mentally challenging coming just out of another relationship (unless she finds you AMAZING).

Like BDSC said, you gotta stay dominant, goal-focused and unfazed, despite her numerous shit-tests.

I know she said she is super busy this week, but what's the update bud? Heard anymore?

- JP