The key with comparing different schools of thoughts, methods, and ideas - is that a lot of things work - just not all the time, and not in all situations.
Like Chase says here, "
Groups aren't ideal, of course...."
I totally disagree. If I've captured the attention of a group of girls, getting the one girl is much much easier.
So a lot of how you do things is about what you prefer to do, not some sort of objective idea of "what works". (But shout out to
@DoWhatWorks )
Chase - Meeting Girls in Groups is More
Work
WIA - Meeting girls in groups is more
FUN.
Chase - "I come from a background of optimizing things for efficiency. I don't like spending a lot of time on anything."
WIA - I also come from a background of optimization - and I learned that
my take on optimization HURT my success with women. I had to turn my STEM brain off to get the type of results I wanted, the way I wanted to get them.
Chase - "it takes time in-field to learn how to recognize which women are interested in you" (Screening is more efficient)
WIA - It takes time in-field to learn how develop interest from random strangers. (Creating interest/Generating interest is less efficient and harder, but for me more satisfying)
Chase -
Avoiding groups is usually preferential.
WIA -
Looking for groups is preferential
Chase -
Throwing Out Group Theory
WIA -
Bringing Back Group Theory
Chase
WIA -
He's right!!!
But what's his focus? What's his aim?
vs
What's my focus? What's my aim?
I don't think I've ever disagreed with anything Chase has said, but we don't have the same goals when it comes to the pull.
He takes the bullet train, and I walk to the destination AND I enjoy the walk.
@Kvothe and the lurkers reading,
what's your aim?
Is it pure efficiency? You want the pull to be textbook, streamlined?
Or do you enjoy the thrill of the game?
YaReally said there were two types of players
- Pleasure of the Sex
- Thrill of the Hunt
I'm in the latter camp. My best pulls really come from my best nights out. And my best nights out have little to do with # of sets approached or concentration of hotties in any given venue. And when it comes to the game, I love a chick that says, "You're not really my type". Good.
Was the DJ playing the best music?
Was I feeling it?
Are other people getting hype because I'm hype?...
Where does what I'm saying fit into a standard "see girl, approach, qualify, get investment, get logistics, increase arousal, and then escape to the seduction location"?
My outlook, my type of approach surrounds the "seduction timeline".
But for me, it makes the seduction FUN.
Most people see this thing as a grind. All this crap you gotta do to get a girl.
Believe me when I tell you - 99 chicks out of 100 - no matter how hot they are - are not worth the work you put into THEM*.
You're not gonna get the emotional reward you think you're gonna get.
That said,
pick up is not a grind for me. Dealing with groups, getting blown out, getting cold shouldered - that's part of the fun. A lot of those chicks that wasn't feeling you at 11 pm, start to get with it at 12:30, and then you blow them off cause they're lames..
When I first got into the game, it was all about getting a bj off a tipsy chick with a cute face.
I always wanted efficiency.
At some point in my focus on optimization, I started to like going out, started to
enjoy meeting strangers.
I have a full run of the West Coast Avengers, I was reading Neal Stephenson and other Cyberpunk writers when they dropped.
I can probably still do some differential equations.
But I learned to enjoy extroversion, even if part of me finds people boring*. (See above)
My game got much better (my psychological affect on random females), more chicks, hotter chicks - because chicks aren't really going out to get banged, per se. But getting smashed on a smelly mattress in a ramshackle apartment can be part of the fun...
Becoming "that guy" made me understand my Ex* so much more. *The girl that put me on the journey, we'd meet again, and even she was entranced... She was always "that girl". She was always the live one in her crew.
To go into the fallacies
#1 Engage the Leader First - it's up to you. But I've had pulls fail by not addressing the leader. You can pay attention to the dynamics, or not pay attention to them.
It's like some girls you can be direct with from the jump (Hey I like you, you look good, come with me for a drink)
But that same girl that was with it will probably still be down if you chat her up and exchange some vibes first.
And there are some girls where being "indirect" will make you lose them, because you missed the escalation window.
We can't quantify which way is better - so you have to do the thing you like to do, the way you want things to happen.
#2
You must win over everyone in the entire group - I've been taken out of the play by not dealing with the pitbull in the group. Could be an ugly girl, could be a sister, could be the male orbiter, could be the male gay friend. The dynamics matter to me.
Is it possible to bolster a chick's independence to the point where she'll ditch the group of people she came with to go "eat a slice of pizza" around the corner?
Sure.
Is it likely? Hasn't been for me.
Fallacy #3: You must ignore the girl you want until you've won over everyone else -
Definitely a fallacy. But if I frame things in a Us vs them, her vs her group - that framing alters the way I interact with the group - and that in turn "telegraphs" my moves.
Going directly for the chick, usually doesn't work, but it can
Like I said above, you can include her, ignore her, praise her, and take that praise away - but within the group dynamic lots of things are happening outside of your control.
If you want your game to be 100% control, which is an ideal not a reality, you want to decrease the amount of variables.
Eliminate or ignore the friends, get semi-isolation with a conversation, get some emotional isolation by having an "inside" conversation, and then use that emotional leverage to get physical isolation....
That's one path, but it's not the
only path.
Chase goes onto explain how his group friendly game backfire.
I could tell you how my go straight to the target game also backfired.
Who's right?
Whos' wrong?
Is there only one 1 way?
My heavy clubbing days are behind me, but I still do the same types of things at bars and other social things that "grown ups" do. If nothing at all, it's because people don't really change.
And people prefer to be in groups.
They prefer to talk to the people they came with.
They don't like strangers.
To barge into a group of strangers, get their attention, hold their attention, and their attention is rewarded with something novel - that's literally the most powerful thing you can learn in pick up, imo.
Because that same skill set is useful in areas of your life that don't revolve around putting P into V.
WIA
