Night Game Efficiency (or Time Management)

[Chrance]

I'd like to figure out if how I'm approaching my nights is effective as well as what game plan you all follow when out.

My goal for seduction at this point is to get 1 lay per week, could be from an SNL or a Day2. I created the following game plan from observing how I do my nights currently. So below is either what I actually do by instinct or what I try to do when I'm mentally struggling.

My Game Plan, or how I try to run my nights, is as follows:
1.) Open a lot until in set
2.) Once in set, assess the situation, flirt, bounce around, do technical game essentially = Do good game
3.) Take the set as far as you can, as long as you can, until you pull, she has to leave or you get rejected = Do more good game
4.) SNL: If you can pull and close, then go for it, and if you are successful then congratulations! pat yourself on the back and sleep.
5.) Day2: If you don't pull or close and you didn't get rejected (i.e. all is well but she can't leave her friends and has to go now) then set up a day2 and get her number
6.) If you didn't close and the set is over for whatever reason (rejection or #close), then dive back in (go back to (1)) and start opening a lot again.
7.) If you got a day2 set up, then pursue that until you close, she gets tired of you or you get tired of her.

The above is how I try to run my nights, but I usually get locked up somewhere. The text in red are those areas I'm very aware I struggle with, specifically opening a lot, problem solving the pull, and getting back into the game once a good set ends with no lay. In the latter case I usually feel disillusioned for a moment.

My technical game could also improve as always. But this post isn't really about inset technical game, since if that improves naturally you are going to get laid more despite your overarching strategy. It has more to do with dealing with the overarching flow of the night in order to maximize lays per week. This seems like its the same thing as inset game but it is not though there is some overlap. For example, RSDJulien would say collect numbers the first half of the night, go for the lay in the second half <= meta overarching strategy. Another would be: Approach a lot, if a girl isn't making out and grabbing ass with you in 30 minutes, get number and leave to avoid time wasters.

Anyway, I'm wondering what you other guys have for your game plan at night? I did the above exercise to figure out my own problems, but also to see where you all can contribute. An alternative to the above is simply: Go out, approach a lot, keep going till you get laid. Maybe that is what some of ya'll have, maybe its something totally novel. I'd like to hear. If you do post, let me know what your goal is in general (SNL, Day2, 2 lays per month, etc) to add some context as to why you do what you do.

FYI one of the reasons why I don't do RSDJulien's is in fact due to my in ability to approach a lot, so that strategy becomes almost inaccessible to me. Secondly, I know if I stay in set with the girl longer than getting a meet up is easier. Thirdly, I may leave the set only to be confronted with a venue that is now packed with dudes, all hitting on every women, where fewer and fewer women are becoming available <= this is one of the reasons why I don't leave a set even though I know getting a lay that night will be very difficult; putting myself back out there will require tons of work with what seems like a small chance of a reward (sometimes women disappear or get taken fast), so I'm better off focusing on what's in my hands to maximize a Day2 lay. I'm going for 1 lay per week, not a lay per night any way.

- Chrance

 

[Velasco]

The text in red are those areas I'm very aware I struggle with, specifically opening a lot, problem solving the pull, and getting back into the game once a good set ends with no lay. In the latter case I usually feel disillusioned for a moment.

FYI one of the reasons why I don't do RSDJulien's is in fact due to my in ability to approach a lot, so that strategy becomes almost inaccessible to me.

can you go into further detail as to why do you struggle with opening a lot of sets?

As for problem solving the pull. What are the objections you face most often? And do you have go-to lines when they come up?

The most common one for me is “I can’t leave my friends"

if we've still got a ways to go before last call, and she's already told me that she lives close then I'll go, "yeah we’ll be back in 20 minutes. they’ll still be here. Its early. they won’t even notice your gone. but we gotta go now if we want to get back in".

If its around last call then its a simple, "Your friends will be fine you can text them where we’re going if you want. you got their phone number right? (think I took this line from Hector Castillo) aight lets go"

Some people get a lotta "i have to get up early tomorrow"'s but I don't. Either way I still have a line just in case I get that objection, which is "what time does you thing start/have to be up at? ok how far away do you live? alright. Well I’m not gonna stop you from getting up early (credit: Oh Pry) I gotta get up early too. lets go".

I also sometime face this objective sometimes where I'm heading to their place with the excuse of "I'm a gentleman I want to make sure you get home safe" or some bullshit along those lines where she's not totally sold on me yet, and therefore won't let me in. Otherwise, I don't need an excuse, cause she knows what's up. Sort of an Unspoken agreement we gonna fuck as soon as we go inside. Sometimes I'll throw in a "I gotta take a piss" for good measure. But when she's not totally sold on me yet, that whole "I gotta take a piss" isn't a good enough plausible reason for her hindbrain to let me go up, so its here where I'll pay attention to what phone she has (9/10 its an iphone). Then I'll shut off my phone. And be like (sorry for being mad longwinded lmao), "fuck my phone's dead I need to charge it to call my uber. you got a charger for iphone, right (I personally have an android cause I'm a broke fucker lol)?" from there all you need is to be inside (I'll take a piss first) and then turn her on and escalate.

Anyway, I'm wondering what you other guys have for your game plan at night? I did the above exercise to figure out my own problems, but also to see where you all can contribute. An alternative to the above is simply: Go out, approach a lot, keep going till you get laid. Maybe that is what some of ya'll have, maybe its something totally novel. I'd like to hear. If you do post, let me know what your goal is in general (SNL, Day2, 2 lays per month, etc) to add some context as to why you do what you do.

my goal is one new lay per week like you (Saturday nights). My game plan is pretty straightforward: warm up (average sets, girls standing in line, guys) then start hitting on girls that I'm attracted to, until I run across one that's receptive, then shoot my shot. My game is designed to screen for the girls I want and screen out the girls that'll be wack. So I open by fucking around (girls that aren't receptive to my sense of humor are out), and then I go sexual very fast with my verbals (so girls that are unreceptive to my inquires about sex positions (or give me a shy, "umm I don't know") are screened out too) to get the girls who I know will be sexually compatible with me. From there its qualifying her on a bunch of bullshit that I know she wants to be qualified on (if she expresses interest in traveling or doing something creative, I'll qualify her on that). But I don't really care. I've already got the information that I wanted outta her (she's hot, she's sexually experienced, she gets my sense of humor. That's what I'm look for in a girl for a ONS). Qualifying is just for her to feel like she's won me over with her personality.

 

[Mr.Rob]

Velasco makes some good points.

I might add to your list point 2.5: screen her logistics early (what's her plan for the night, where she lives, how many ppl she's with, etc) if she has good logistics then burn it down too the ground... If not just collect a number and go find a more promising lead.

I.e. Becky who is at the bar by herself and just moved in next door is much more promising than Cindy who is with an 8 girl bachelorette party that are staying 30 minutes away.

It's doable to do Cindy (I've done it before, and you have to get good at reading the situation to see) but Becky is always going to trump Cindy assuming you have the same level of attraction... Or even if Becky has less attraction for you.

Also it's going to be pretty hard to get one lay a week if you're not approaching much, unless you have perfect fundamentals and a Lazer sense for capitalizing on IOI's.

 

[Skills]

Velasco makes some good points.

I might add to your list point 2.5: screen her logistics early (what's her plan for the night, where she lives, how many ppl she's with, etc) if she has good logistics then burn it down too the ground... If not just collect a number and go find a more promising lead.

I.e. Becky who is at the bar by herself and just moved in next door is much more promising than Cindy who is with an 8 girl bachelorette party that are staying 30 minutes away.

It's doable to do Cindy (I've done it before, and you have to get good at reading the situation to see) but Becky is always going to trump Cindy assuming you have the same level of attraction... Or even if Becky has less attraction for you.

Also it's going to be pretty hard to get one lay a week if you're not approaching much, unless you have perfect fundamentals and a Lazer sense for capitalizing on IOI's.

^ this, if your goal is 1 lay a week you need to go out minimum 3 times a week.... Also if the girl is hot but is not down you may devote more time in the set, todd has a video somewhere i could not find, that uses a point/value system on the set...

 

[Chrance]

Thanks for the responses.

can you go into further detail as to why do you struggle with opening a lot of sets?

No problem. It can be described simply as not being in state, or approach anxiety. But specifically, the reasons why I don't open a lot are as follows:

1. I don't warm up or bother to warm up. I really just want to talk to the girls I want to sleep with. <= I've been actively working on this, so may not be an issue soon.
2. I spend a lot of time comparing sets to see which one has the better odds of success and is the most attractive. This causes anxiety.
3. I'm a pretty decent looking guy. So when my social skills aren't matching my appearance, or when I appear like an idiot, my ego takes a hit. (this has surprisingly gotten worse after sleeping with a couple women that I liked a lot and told me I was hot. Now I feel that I really need to act and be the part.)
4. Talking to girls is to some degree mentally stressful. I know before going in that my mind is going to be put to work, like solving a tough physics or math problem. The awareness that I will experience mental stress of some kind is demotivating. This may seem ridiculous, but it is in fact a big factor. If the girl is attractive enough then this issue resolves itself; if the girl is not attractive enough, then why deal with the struggle?
5. I don't approach quickly. I usually see how attractive the woman is ("is she worth the effort?") beforehand which can take some time.
6. Lack of focus and mind wandering. My imagination goes places not in the club or associated with chicks. There's a lot of stuff I like to think about unrelated to babes. <= this I've gotten better at controlling, but still happens from time to time
7. Related to (1) and (5), but I'm only willing to approach women I'm actually attracted to, which is a small percentage of women in the club.
8. Once I get my eyes set on a specific woman, I can't get myself to approach any other woman until I've approached her first, and if I never end up approaching her then I end up missing the window with other women around me that would have been a good second option.

Generally, when a woman is clearly attractive to me than I actually don't get too much hesitation to approach. Where I am in the states, its pretty common for a woman to have an attractive face but a chubby waist, or a nice body but a weird face which creates a mind fuck when judging her attractiveness. But just tonight, which was a very shitty night filled with all of the problems above, a girl gave me an approach invite, literally winking at me, and I stood there thinking "Okay. Is she hot enough?" But by the time I came to the conclusion that she was, I already felt clueless as to what I would say and then made the excuse that I would find another girl hotter or see what else is hidden in the club before I make an approach. By the time I returned I had too much anxiety built up and the ship had sailed.

Looking back, there have been 3 or so women I've laid that I probably would not have approached if I had spent more time observing them, solely because I would have found something I didn't like and then thought "Not worth it" and moved on; but since with those lays I was very eager to get a lay in general (to get up my notch count; to prove to other players in the club who look up to me (lmao bizarre but true) that I'm not inept; or to satisfy the feeling of "I spent all this time sarging and getting nothing, I need to get something out of all my efforts.") or I saw them and said "What's up" so quickly that I didn't even bother seeing what they looked like, the approach and lay were able to occur.

There are definitely nights where I do approach a lot. But there is a lot of inconsistency. This month, January, has been particularly shitty for me due to I think not going out 3 nights a week as I should, which unsurprisingly amplified all of my mind-fucks. I don't want it to make it appear like AA is always an issue. Some nights it really isn't. I've never actively focused on AA because often I'd still get something (a long set, make-out, number, or lay) without having to put in a lot of effort.

Some aspects of the above list I never used to deal with before, like caring a lot about how hot the woman is. But lately after getting more success I've found myself judging the women more and more. This month I didn't get laid at all so maybe this attitude will dissipate and I'll rebound. In the same vein, comparing sets used to never happen with me, but now it does all the time. In regards to mental stress of talking to chicks <= this is something that wasn't clear to me until recently, where I realized that the very act of thinking of what to say or do inset is a downside to approaching

My current solution to my not-opening-a-lot issues is really just to:

1. Go out more, 3 nights a week as Skills mentioned. maybe even more.
2. Warm up consistently and talk to strangers more
3. Approach first, then find out the women's attractiveness during the set, not before.

Other things like TRE, meditation and self-hypnosis are things I'm getting into (or back into in the case of meditation) outside of sarging.

As for problem solving the pull. What are the objections you face most often? And do you have go-to lines when they come up?

The most common one for me is “I can’t leave my friends"

My issue with pulling is that I don't really go for it as hard as I should. I wait for a lot of green lights until I'm willing to make the move. Generally I'll say "Let's get some fresh air", then "I want to get some gum/coffee from my car" or "I want to listen to some music in my car." Other times, if the girl is solo, I'll say "there's this cool place called X. Want to check it out?" then go from there. Once at the car I'll go for the close. On two occasion I pulled to her place because I hinted at giving her and her friend a ride home, resulting in the lay. I've never pulled a girl straight from a club back to my place (i.e. an SNL at my place), which is about 20 minutes away from all the night life. I still haven't figured this out. I've never tried the after party stuff, nor have I have straight up said "Do you want to come back to my place?" because something about these lines rub me the wrong way. I think I play things a little too safe. Common excuses are "I can't leave my friends" or another more common variation of this is that the friends would literally just follow us around all night keeping an eye out; another excuse is "I can't leave the club". So far that is all I've experienced.

my goal is one new lay per week like you (Saturday nights). My game plan is pretty straightforward: warm up (average sets, girls standing in line, guys) then start hitting on girls that I'm attracted to, until I run across one that's receptive, then shoot my shot. My game is designed to screen for the girls I want and screen out the girls that'll be wack. So I open by fucking around (girls that aren't receptive to my sense of humor are out), and then I go sexual very fast with my verbals (so girls that are unreceptive to my inquires about sex positions (or give me a shy, "umm I don't know") are screened out too) to get the girls who I know will be sexually compatible with me. From there its qualifying her on a bunch of bullshit that I know she wants to be qualified on (if she expresses interest in traveling or doing something creative, I'll qualify her on that). But I don't really care. I've already got the information that I wanted outta her (she's hot, she's sexually experienced, she gets my sense of humor. That's what I'm look for in a girl for a ONS). Qualifying is just for her to feel like she's won me over with her personality.

^This is great to read and was what I was looking to see. It paints a clear picture of how a night is done and it gives me some good ideas.

I might add to your list point 2.5: screen her logistics early (what's her plan for the night, where she lives, how many ppl she's with, etc) if she has good logistics then burn it down too the ground... If not just collect a number and go find a more promising lead.

Screening logistics is something that I actually do consistently and naturally. But what to do with that information is something that is more difficult. Like, she could be adamant on not leaving her friends, but who knows? Maybe I can change her mind. There's more to it than just this of course. An obvious situation is if the girl is only there for that night (on vacation or something), so if she isn't leaving her friends then Day2 isn't really an option. But here's the thing. On two occasions I had a girl who was only there for that one night before heading to her home state and who wasn't willing to leave her friends. But I stuck in the set any way because they were attractive and I hoped I could figure something out. Eventually the set ended, bars closed and every one had to go back to their hotels. But I then texted the girl(s) with "Hey. What are you doing for the rest of your night?". "Not really sure," she said. With both the chicks I ended up picking them up straight from their hotels later in the night, going for the close in the back of my car in an alleyway (I got LMR and no lay with both of them, but I was pretty damn close and these experiences altered my view of logistics). Hanging out with the girls longer made for a stronger set, and so getting them back out of their hotels was something they were more comfortable to do. All of this to say, a lot can be said on what to do with logistical information.

Also it's going to be pretty hard to get one lay a week if you're not approaching much, unless you have perfect fundamentals and a Lazer sense for capitalizing on IOI's.

Agree 100%. Really, if I just approached 20 sets or so a night, I would probably get laid as much as I'd like. Why this is not motivating is difficult to explain.

if your goal is 1 lay a week you need to go out minimum 3 times a week...

I agree with this as well.

P.S. I don't really want to make this thread about my AA problems or game problems in general, though I'm perfectly willing to talk about them. The intent is to see how different guys play their nights.

 

[Skills]

Some things i do:

- i never go out with a phone. (this forces me not to go for phone numbers, and i find the phone a huge distraction for me)

- i do not worry about friends or play with objections like what velasco is saying.- i just stay in set friends or no friends, staying in set till we end up together in isolation, i do not force separation from the friends... i win the friends over.....

The only way i address objection "i just met you" "or i do not know you".... i say this and works 100% for me: "women have a gut feeling if the guy is creepy or not, you know better, that i am cool and safe" something like that, it works...

my point is i do not sneak or force isolation, i just totally do brent smith type or hang moody type of style and just stay in set till we are together... sometimes i may use come with me to the "after party" if she says where? i just you love it and just lead...

 

[Velasco]

1. Warm up consistently and talk to strangers more
2. Approach first, then find out the women's attractiveness during the set, not before.

yeah this is really it. Focus more on what she's doing, and go in with whatever's the first thing that comes to mind or if your mind is blank for fresh material, then use a canned opener you've used in that situation in the past that you like ("ok I see a petite latina looking girl with a booty making her way over to the bar to get a drink, didn't really get much of a look on her, but I'm gonna see what's up. Can't think of anything at the moment, so I'mma just be like, "yo there's a line, girl. excuse me, da fuck? nah I'm playing with you" aight that's good). This way you don't let her attractiveness psyche you out of approaching (like "holy fuck she's way to hot for me. Let me open a couple of less attractive girls first before approaching her" or "nah she ain't good enough for me. I like being stuck in my head") If she turns out to be hotter (and receptive) than you initially thought. Then great. stay in set. If not, then bounce.

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

My Game Plan, or how I try to run my nights, is as follows:
1.) Open a lot until in set

3.) Take the set as far as you can, as long as you can, until you pull, she has to leave or you get rejected = Do more good game

4.) SNL: If you can pull and close, then go for it, and if you are successful then congratulations! pat yourself on the back and sleep.

6.) If you didn't close and the set is over for whatever reason (rejection or #close), then dive back in (go back to (1)) and start opening a lot again.

Opening a lot until you get into a good set
- You need a club with a lot of density - sometimes that's the country, sometimes the city, sometimes is the night, sometimes it's the venue.
- You have to open sets w/o hot girls. This cuts down on the "looking for a set with a hot girl", increases your social momentum,

Push the set until you pull
- This was old school, "make the girl say no". That's one way to do it. One of the issues you'll face is timing, the other is with her friends.

Going for the SNL
- Most guys that get into pickup tend to be little more cautious and conservative, and don't pull the trigger when the signs say to. A smaller portion are pushing too quickly. Focusing on the more introverted side, many guys are looking for CLEAR SIGNS. They need the girl to practically be begging to be taken home. What they have to do is have some courage.

Obviously technique wise you can seed the bounce. Get her excited to "go to that cool pizza place" or "check out your stamp collection"

But a lot of girls that are socially savvy and might be on the fence about hooking up, won't "jump for joy". In those cases, you need to trust yourself, trust your experiences, the girl has been hanging out with you, laughing at your jokes, sharing some of her secrets with you, she likes you. So you have to put your ego at risk and ask her to leave with you. Doesn't need to be straight home. But it should just be the two of you.

Diving back into set after rejection

As technique goes, open the people right next to you.
As inner game goes, this is a much broader topic, but you have to *insert cliche* start loving yourself more. That means not beating yourself up, not being a perfectionist. That's a bit beyond the scope of traditional or even contemporary pick up advice, but most of the breakthroughs you'll have with outer game/technique come from a combination of changes in how you view things and how you view yourself.

Anyway, I'm wondering what you other guys have for your game plan at night? I did the above exercise to figure out my own problems, but also to see where you all can contribute. An alternative to the above is simply: Go out, approach a lot, keep going till you get laid. Maybe that is what some of ya'll have, maybe its something totally novel. I'd like to hear. If you do post, let me know what your goal is in general (SNL, Day2, 2 lays per month, etc) to add some context as to why you do what you do.

- Chrance

Baseline
- health, eat right, work out, get enough rest
- hygiene, style
- know my city - where things are happening, when, who goes, the staff at these venues, and how to get there, where to park, how to get out of there, nearby diners/pizza places, convenience stores, etc.

Any given night, this is my plan
- I have a Plan A Venue where I think I'm going to pull
- Plan B venue, if Plan A is bad night
- Non bar/club places to take prospects to either increase comfort, or let them sober up a bit

10-11 - traveling to the venue, getting there, meeting staff, seeing if there are any regulars I know.
11-12 - Opening sets, getting baseline logistics, cutting threads, dancing, a drink or two

12:-1:15 - Go time. Returning to sets with good logistics, and opening sets with the girls I like.

1:15-2 am - the Scramble. Alcohol has kicked in, the regular guys are starting to try to hook up with the regular girls. The VIP type girls usually leave before this.

Golden Hour - Right after the club lets out, the girls that didn't find a guy, people going to diners - everyone's hair is a little let down, more relaxed,

That's pretty much it.

You can pull earlier than 12-1:15, but you have to work against the social dynamics. Girls usually want to stay and dance. Or her friends don't want her to leave.

 

[FunGuy]

From there its qualifying her on a bunch of bullshit that I know she wants to be qualified on (if she expresses interest in traveling or doing something creative, I'll qualify her on that). But I don't really care. I've already got the information that I wanted outta her (she's hot, she's sexually experienced, she gets my sense of humor. That's what I'm look for in a girl for a ONS). Qualifying is just for her to feel like she's won me over with her personality.

I like how you screen for sense of humor and sexual compatibility. Since I am trying to learn a bit about qualification, I am curious about how you go about it. If its not too much of a bother, can you give some examples of stuff you would say to elicit her to qualify and how you go about rewarding her for complying. Would greatly appreciate it.

 

[Velasco]

Since I am trying to learn a bit about qualification, I am curious about how you go about it. If its not too much of a bother, can you give some examples of stuff you would say to elicit her to qualify and how you go about rewarding her for complying. Would greatly appreciate it.

Good question @FunGuy

For qualifying girls, I follow Saul Tee's Investment model. Which he discusses in his book Technical Game Bible (+ with examples) https://www.technicalgamebible.com/

The model goes:

Spike -> Investment Hoop -> Reward -> Vibe -> repeat.

There are various forms of 'Investment' such as compliance tests (doing what you tell her to do) or filling in gaps in the conversation when you've shut your mouth (whether done deliberately or not). but the most powerful forms of investment are 1). her qualifying/explaining/defending herself to you about why she likes/does what she does (or accuse her of) and 2). her telling you a story about herself.

Unlike Saul, I don't really do Spikes before throwing girls Investment Hoops. I mainly set up Investment Hoops by asking her a question that doesn't require much investment on her part (ex: Yes/No question).

An Investment Hoop is simply a question or statement you make that provokes the later two forms of 'Investment'.

You then Reward that investment ("that's amazing/that's actually cool" or doing so nonverbally by nodding approvingly)

Then Vibe with her by talking about something related to the topic/sharing your perspective. I take this opportunity to talk about sex/set sexual frames.

All my routines/gambits I've created (and future gambits) follow this model.

Here's a new routine I've been working on. I'll breakdown the stages of the investment model

You know I just noticed you actually have a really nice body. You go to the gym? - YES/NO question

If Yes: oh yeah? hold on let me feel your muscle. (feel the spot underneath her muscle). [surprised face] You liar. Be honest. you’re one of those girls who only goes to the gym in tight ass clothes. Stands in front of the mirror. and just works on her ass so that everybody checks you out? - Investment Hoop - make her qualify/explain/defend herself

If No: oh really genetics? yeah. but I feel like if it weren't for your genetics...you'd be one of those girls who goes to the gym in tight ass clothes. stands in front of the mirror. and just works on her ass so that everybody checks you out? - IH

No but that’s actually cool. Its good to feel yourself - Reward for qualifying herself

I feel like not a lot of people are very confident about themselves. I mean I like getting my ass checked out too don't get me wrong, but unlike you, that’s not the only reason why I go to the gym. For me, I pretty much go so that I can have even more amazing sex. Like I go hard at the gym so that I can do anything I want with girls....whether that's picking them up...tossing them around...or just flat out dominating them. And cardio on days where I don’t work out so I can outlast girls..I always find it funny when girls be like "how are you still going haha". - Vibing - while giving me an excuse to talk about sex.

 

[FunGuy]

For qualifying girls, I follow Saul Tee's Investment model. Which he discusses in his book Technical Game Bible (+ with examples) https://www.technicalgamebible.com/

The model goes:

Spike -> Investment Hoop -> Reward -> Vibe -> repeat.

Thank you! Your post made everything a lot clearer