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Night Game - Is it harder to attract with small physique?

Lushie

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Dec 26, 2020
Messages
42
I'm an average short guy with I would say a skinny muscular body. Working on trying to fix that by bulking up but it's a lot harder than I anticipated.
One of the things I tend to notice is that in night venues (college bars, parties, clubs) it's quite often you see guys with good physiques (or at least in my perspective) and from what I've seen, girls really dig that.

During the day I get a lot of looks and IOIs, my friends always tell me about some girl that keeps eyeing me whenever I don't realize it. And so because of these reactions, I used to be in the mindset that muscles don't matter. However, in night-time venues, I'm not getting the same looks and reactions. I even had a lady tell me she likes a man that looks like he can protect her (which didn't sound like that was me). This is starting to demotivate me to do night-game, or at least until I can achieve the body I desire.

But of course, I don't think it's impossible for a small physique guy to be successful in these types of venues/night-game but I wanted to confirm if it is much harder if you don't have a big/stronger looking physique?

This could also be a symptom of my inner game crumbling and me just making excuses for not pushing myself but I wanted to get opinions on this.
 
you miss 100% of the shots you don't take

Fluxcapacitor

Modern Human
Modern Human
Joined
Dec 17, 2018
Messages
783
@Lushie dude! This is cope and an excuse, it's your inner game crumbling. Would you look more attractive with more muscle? Maybe. Would you feel more confident? Most definitely, but this is projection. Having a great physique doesn't transform your results half as much as you'd think. That's a dude perspective. Look back through the forum there's recently been a huge discussion about this.

What I can say is I've got a wing that's very skinny, very slim build with a little bit of muscle, similar to how you've described yourself and he does alright for himself when we hit the clubs.

My main wing before him had the physique of a superhero, he didn't do great with the girls. He was confident, laid back, could approach and have fun but didn't close. He would be a red pillers wet dream...

Hilariously, girls make weird rationalisations. This girl was explaining why she found my skinny wingman hot, it was his height, yet I'm taller :') when he pointed this out to her she said it was how broad he is, yet I'm broader :') he pointed that out and she said it was his hair. I have long hair where he has short hair, girls will make excuses for you, don't let your self limiting belief get in the way. You're not going to appeal to every girl, find the ones you appeal to, this girl in particular took a shine to my wing
 

Conquistador

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Sep 2, 2022
Messages
1,065
Being smaller can help you move under the radar, and also allow you to get away with being more brazen/explicit about your intentions.

I have no personal experience, but from everything I've heard it doesn't affect your attractiveness much once you've approached if your fundamentals are solid.

In general, I'd say having less fat is more important than more muscle.

FWIW several of the classical PUAs were short.
 

West_Indian_Archie

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Feb 6, 2020
Messages
411
This is a hard one to explain every time it comes up, because short guys new to the community have a million excuses, but most of the players I knew coming up were less than average height (5'9") - I'm only 5'10"/5'11":

1) In the night game
2) On the short side - ranging from 5'2" to 5'6".

The Producer - 5'8" on a good day - 3 kids, 2 baby mamas, and still wanted MORE. He was obsessed with sex. Not something to copy, but he was well groomed, well spoken, but not particularly smart. Somehow he always hit the right emotional vibe with chicks.

And did he say the most syrupy/beta stuff ever? Damn right he did.

His tone, his eye contact, how he would manufacture kino out of nowhere - chicks would eat out of his hand.

He didn't need to mention that he was in the music biz (prolly cause he was not particularly successful).

The average veteran here would recognize his game, recognize his results, and still not want it.

Height never stopped him.

Clubs, bars, restaurants... We was in Cali and he said he had to go to Laguna Hills just to see if he could snag one of them Cali Blondes. (SMH, he wasted so much of his time on females)

The Salesman 5'6" - I hate to stereotype, but SOME of my Middle Eastern Brothers got a streak of energy/persistence/unflappability that we would all be smart to incorporate into our lives.

I forget what this guy's real job was, but he owns a business now. He was in the crew. I'm pretty sure he banged a chick I was lusting after in high school that lived on my block growing up. (I'm guessing He snagged her in college...) I was jealous at first, but then, GAME RECOGNIZE GAME.

Aside from this chick, we had very different tastes. But he was a lover of women, at the same time, he loved himself. He'd just go up and talk to the chick, and whatever sort of defense she threw up, HE'D KEEP GOING.

This guy didn't study any PUA theory, but you'd call him Mr. Plow.

He never took these chicks seriously. It was all just foreplay to him.

But the real key is that his height didn't matter to him, he just approached, and he just bowled people over.

Bars were his specialty.

The G - I got a Vietnamese homie (prolly in the 5'5" range) that was very much the same - shorter than the Salesman - and he had that crazy Viet gangsta vibe going - without being all G'd up. Everything about him said, say the wrong thing and he will eff you up.

I think the chicks that liked him were actually SCARED not to like him. I wouldn't (and couldn't) emulate it, I just mention it because women have so many pathways to hooking up, it's not funny.

But he'd do something I only ever saw work in Japan, and "supposedly" works* in the "hood". He would straight yank a chick's arm to come talk to him. Not something I'd ever do, but if there was ever a person I knew he just took what he wanted from life, it was him.

*Playing Gorilla Pimp with chicks at urban clubs is a good way to start a fight and get thrown out. I've never seen it work at a club, I have seen it work in more permissive environments like the beach. But you gotta back it up.

The Art Museum Guy 5'2" - Literally dated the hottest Asian chick I've ever seen, and he dated her for years. (damn straight I tried to dirty mack when they broke up - about a decade later, but she's aged like fine wine...*bites fist*)

His natural gifts - he had a "handsome" face - which he basically managed by being sort of in shape (but not ripped, just not too fat) and a good hair cut. His style was impeccable. Instead of buying a bunch of basics, he focused his wardrobe on high end staples.

His game? Was my dude Blue Pill? Hell yeah. Nobody would ever accuse this guy of having game, but he was personable AF. I still think of him as one of the best/nicest people I've ever met. (Oddly, my friends that know him better think of him as a dick/jerk, lol).

Did he focus on the club? No. He was into the art scene, and let his personality flow to whoever he was talking to.

But then he'd take these hot weird/art chicks to the club. (pre-selection/social proof)

And then he'd take folks back to his spot for the after party.

All that to say

The through line of ALL GAME is that personality/attitude/mindset that is congruent with the man's behavior is what matters.


I've found with most shorter guys that are successful is that THEY HAD TO BE.

What other choice was there?

And it made ME FEEL BAD.
  • Could I be as persistent as the salesman?
  • As personable as the art museum guy?
  • As direct as the G?
  • As focused on females as the Producer?
Yes, Yes, Yes, and Yes. I'm thinking of my near misses and total washouts - and a lot of it was not having the WILL to act, cause I was comfortable with the chicks. What heights I could have hit with females, but with life also.

Had I learned anything from my short brothers, My #'s would be higher, as would be overall quality.

But because I'm 1" above average, I've been relatively lazy about developing my personality further than what I've have done.

Keep in mind
But those "advantages" stop them from developing the most important parts of pick up - their behavior and personality.

I do have 3 short homies that have not done anything though, and they suffer for it.
They've got all the accomplishments, and even more gifts (money/status/popularity), but something stops them in the female department.

So to answer your question, Is it much harder?

1) In objective terms, absolutely not.


Chicks attempt to rules guy out at the very beginning for being too muscular and scary, too tall and lanky, too short, too goofy, too whatever - And you just RUN YOUR GAME.

2) In subjective terms, absolutely.

You're the one putting that road block in front of you.

Now maybe this is a good road block. Maybe you take the approach that "I need to have 10x more personality than a tall dude."

Most of the time, guys use being short, Indian, Asian, having an accent, and random other things to STOP them from doing the work they need to do.

But there is enough evidence out there that these things are just mental blocks.

Stop hating on yourself, and just get out there.

Make sure your externals and fundamentals are on point, and just start getting at females.

AND DON'T TAKE PHONE NUMBERS, TAKE THEM HOME.

WIA
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
5,075
I'm an average short guy with I would say a skinny muscular body. Working on trying to fix that by bulking up but it's a lot harder than I anticipated.
One of the things I tend to notice is that in night venues (college bars, parties, clubs) it's quite often you see guys with good physiques (or at least in my perspective) and from what I've seen, girls really dig that.

During the day I get a lot of looks and IOIs, my friends always tell me about some girl that keeps eyeing me whenever I don't realize it. And so because of these reactions, I used to be in the mindset that muscles don't matter. However, in night-time venues, I'm not getting the same looks and reactions. I even had a lady tell me she likes a man that looks like he can protect her (which didn't sound like that was me). This is starting to demotivate me to do night-game, or at least until I can achieve the body I desire.

But of course, I don't think it's impossible for a small physique guy to be successful in these types of venues/night-game but I wanted to confirm if it is much harder if you don't have a big/stronger looking physique?

This could also be a symptom of my inner game crumbling and me just making excuses for not pushing myself but I wanted to get opinions on this.
Yeah i currently have a short wing, he has a really good physique, he does very well..... I used to have another wing (no good physic, bold) nickname primo, did extremely well as well, he would even do 3 some or ogies, and have a girlfriend that she was picking up girls for 3 some for them...

There are millions of samples, what i would suggest is to go for girls your height or shorter, to increase odds, those are things they have in common. I would suggest you read psycho cybernetics by maxwell is a book about self image...
 
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