Observations vs Insights in The Opener. Most of you suck at this

[Tony D]

I’ve noticed that in daygame, many guys default to making shallow, obvious comments, rather than insightful observations.

I call this insights vs observations.

Observation: Those are nice shoes
Insight: It takes a real nose for style to match red converse with a yellow skirt

Observation: You have a confident walk
Insight: The way you walk makes me think you’ll be president of something, someday.

These sorts of comments hook better than plain observations because they make the girl think “Is that true?” An obvious statement doesn’t take a second for her to confirm or deny. It’s a little bit deeper than a common observation.

After all, the point of having game is to stand out from all the other guys. Not to blend in.

Why?

Another rookie mistake is that guys say something “weird” because it has no context.

For example, the good old “You look very interesting.” “Interesting” being an adjective without context. WHY is she interesting? In relation to what? To the other uninteresting people? Other common adjectives men use:

You’re very/look very:

Creative
Cute
Fun
Busy

The only reply these shallow adjectives warrant is “Thanks.” And there’s zero emotion behind it because there’s really no flattery. She hasn’t earned the “observation” so she isn’t hit on any emotional level. Not a deep one anyway.

Her question will be “What’s his motivation?” WHY is he saying this to me?

Let’s look at deeper explanations of the observation, to make them insightful.

Observation: You look creative
Insight: I’ve met girls who dress like you before. Usually they’re into hipster bands and handmade craft fairs.

Observation: I like your style
Insight: Someone like you who takes the time to think out what they’re wearing probably changes their identity several times a week.

The Follow Up

With an insightful observation, it makes it more natural for a follow up question. “Where/Why/What made you do/buy/go with that?

It shows you took a little more effort, have some social intelligence, and might be a fun guy to take to a party.

This is just the beginning of what’s possible with verbals. For now, when you’re making “small talk” try to ask yourself “why?” you actually care. Are you actually expressing your personality, your curiosity, or merely trying to pass the time until you can ask for her Instagram?

Just approaching her isn’t enough. You need to have some STYLE. And I don’t mean fashion sense. That too… but I mean verbal game style. Most guys don’t have any, so if you develop this, you’ll stand out from the horde of bores.

 

[Colt Williams]

Fantastic point. I think too many men fail to put themselves in the girls shoes. If a girl walked up to any of us and said "hey, interesting outfit." You'd be like "the hell...?" But if a girl walked up to you and said "Those are some really amazing suede shoes and peacoat. You look very GQ." Even if nothing happened afterward, suddenly you'd have a pep in your step! And you'd be at least open to a chat

 

[Space]

I just put this here as a contrast:

Depends on whether she is a Yes, a No, or a Maybe girl to you. What's a Yes, a No, or a Maybe girl? Lot's of discussion of it in this topic but it seems Upper Intermediate to Advanced guys are struggling with Maybe girls, too And I'm not Upper Intermediate to Advanced...

As long as she is a Yes girl, here's what to say:

Spoiler alert: it doesn't matter. It's the first video of YouTube's most popular dating advice channel. With 1.3 million subs...

Besides just saying anything I also do situational stuff because why not? For example this is not situational for the given interaction but situational for the time of year. I simply say I wanted to wish you a Merry Christmas, hi, my name is Space. And you can go from there. Even on the fucking public transport it worked.

Not to have an argument with you, just to have a contrast.

Now onto your thing.

Insight: It takes a real nose for style to match red converse with a yellow skirt

Insight: The way you walk makes me think you’ll be president of something, someday.

These sound too American to me. You recently said that you wrote with a predominantly American audience in mind. Fair enough, Tribal @Tony D. But if the best answer the Girl Chase collective as a whole can give to its readers from 90 countries across the world revolves around the American way of life...then maybe I should look for my answers elsewhere. No big deal.

And now to get back to our one-on-one discussion we started threads. I'm sorry just this is how I do it. But we have so much time in a day for KJing...having a life...As a disclaimer I probably suck at forums.

You wrote me something like if I don't like your posts don't read them. It's not that. You see, you seem to be just a little bit of a contradiction to me. Once you said you consider yourself almost like a 100% percent motivation teacher and you suggested your audience to disregard the decade plus old legacy of the community and figure out everything from scratch. I don't want to misrepresent your words but this is how I understood it. I have nothing against this if it works for you to get coaching clients and it also works for them. Many people lack and need motivation. I'm more or less self motivated (ice cold shower every day).

Interestingly the teachers and coaches I can most relate to are the ones who give almost 100% practical type of advice. But besides one side of you claim you are almost 100% motivational and guys should figure out this thing from scratch, you have an inverse (hidden?) practical side as well. You open threads with these practical posts. To which I can relate. And to philosophy. This one was too American to me but to most of your common sense advice in the Beginner forum I can relate. Don't get me wrong, common sense advice well delivered to the right person at the right time is probably the most important advice. So in that sense I can relate to you. So on one side you claim you are an almost 100% motivational teacher, guys should figure out this shit from scratch... then on the other side you give practical advice like everyone else. I've just found these two, for me contradictory sides of you and couldn't fail to notice. The moderation team's problem with me is that I'm too logical lol. Like Todd V.

And this one particular thread is just too American to me, that's it. And I thought this was intended to be a truly international site (Girls Chase) and community. I'm from Continental Europe. Not the UK, that's like half way between the Continent and the US, culturally as well.

sorry bro, still love ya!

But if a girl walked up to you and said "Those are some really amazing suede shoes and peacoat. You look very GQ."

Just as well as American. Come on guys, I though we could have more diverse views from guys of more diverse backgrounds here.

 

[Tony D]

I just put this here as a contrast:


Not to have an argument with you, just to have a contrast.

Now onto your thing.



These sound too American to me. You recently said that you wrote with a predominantly American audience in mind. Fair enough, Tribal @Tony D. But if the best answer the Girl Chase collective as a whole can give to its readers from 90 countries across the world revolves around the American way of life...then maybe I should look for my answers elsewhere. No big deal.

And now to get back to our one-on-one discussion we started threads. I'm sorry just this is how I do it. But we have so much time in a day for KJing...having a life...As a disclaimer I probably suck at forums.

You wrote me something like if I don't like your posts don't read them. It's not that. You see, you seem to be just a little bit of a contradiction to me. Once you said you consider yourself almost like a 100% percent motivation teacher and you suggested your audience to disregard the decade plus old legacy of the community and figure out everything from scratch. I don't want to misrepresent your words but this is how I understood it. I have nothing against this if it works for you to get coaching clients and it also works for them. Many people lack and need motivation. I'm more or less self motivated (ice cold shower every day).

Interestingly the teachers and coaches I can most relate to are the ones who give almost 100% practical type of advice. But besides one side of you claim you are almost 100% motivational and guys should figure out this thing from scratch, you have an inverse (hidden?) practical side as well. You open threads with these practical posts. To which I can relate. And to philosophy. This one was too American to me but to most of your common sense advice in the Beginner forum I can relate. Don't get me wrong, common sense advice well delivered to the right person at the right time is probably the most important advice. So in that sense I can relate to you. So on one side you claim you are an almost 100% motivational teacher, guys should figure out this shit from scratch... then on the other side you give practical advice like everyone else. I've just found these two, for me contradictory sides of you and couldn't fail to notice. The moderation team's problem with me is that I'm too logical lol. Like Todd V.

And this one particular thread is just too American to me, that's it. And I thought this was intended to be a truly international site (Girls Chase) and community. I'm from Continental Europe. Not the UK, that's like half way between the Continent and the US, culturally as well.

sorry bro, still love ya!


Just as well as American. Come on guys, I though we could have more diverse views from guys of more diverse backgrounds here.

Dude. All you want to do is argue.

 

[Mike Silvertree]

@Space:
These sound too American to me. You recently said that you wrote with a predominantly American audience in mind. Fair enough, Tribal @Tony D. But if the best answer the Girl Chase collective as a whole can give to its readers from 90 countries across the world revolves around the American way of life...then maybe I should look for my answers elsewhere. No big deal.

Of all the crap you have posted, this takes the cake. (Hopefully my using an American expression isn't too offensive.) Tony has delivered more value in this one post than you have in your 500+ posts that clutter up this forum.

Here's a dose of reality. Everyone posts from their own perspective. Duh! This complaint is no more valid than me complaining that European PUA's knowledge is only useful for Europeans or Asian PUA's posts are only useful for Asians. If that was true, we would all have our own little parochial forums and no one would exchange information, and we'd all be a lot less well informed.

Instead of wasting everbody's time, why don't you work on a plan to go out on New Year's Eve and try interacting with women. Try to put the things you have learned to use, assuming you have learned anything here.

 

[Skippy]

I've definitely been guilty of this mistake these past few months. So it seems like the general pattern is to find something you like about her and turn that into an assumption or cold read?


One that I sometimes do is if I see a girl in the financial district and she's wearing a sharp outfit I'll say "you're dressed like you're about to crush it at some corporate presentation" (something along those lines) When I spontaneously thought of it, the girl hooked hard.

I'm wondering what to do in situations where the girl looks "hot" or cute but you genuinely find nothing impressive about her outfit/walk. (Maybe she's just wearing a tank top and shorts) Or situations where you're deeply attracted to a girl but you just can't put in into words why. I was thinking something along the lines of " I thought you looked cute/adorable/beautiful and you seem like the kind of person who...+(some assumption about her personality or vibe)"

 

[Space]

@Skippy, I think you are overthinking it.

I'm wondering what to do in situations where the girl looks "hot" or cute but you genuinely find nothing impressive about her outfit/walk. (Maybe she's just wearing a tank top and shorts)

I would just tell her the truth. Something like: I know I'm supposed to not compliment a girl on her bodily features but rather on her style and nice clothes but if all she shows is her skin, what to do? I feel a little embarrassed. Hi, I'm Space. Handshake, milking the intro, Chris "60" style and so on.

Or situations where you're deeply attracted to a girl but you just can't put in into words why.

I would start with the bare basics. Something like: Excuse me - Always starting with "excuse me" during the day is a classic, good idea. By Roosh. Her first reaction, whether she is a Yes, No, or a Maybe girl to you will often turn out by you simply saying "excuse me". Depending on the situation, place, time of day of course, as you didn't provice a rich description of it - Hi, I'm Space. I thought you might be interesting. Handshake, milking the intro, Chris "60" style and so on. What are you up to? - Don't overcomplicate it. It's just the opener. I also like saying "you looked interesting" instead of commenting on her looks as it's more about her personality and every other guy comments on her looks. By Chris "60".

There is a good reason the subtitle of Mark Manson's book is Attract Women Through Honesty. As an important note, a couple of 1000s of hours of more meditation helps with this shit. It helps me too.

Besides there is this parallel thread where the general consensus by everyone (I mean by guys who areen't me) is that your opener truly doesn't matter.

 

[Kvothe]

This is really great, I need to start implementing this ASAP.

How do you get better at making insights? The way I think is to go out and try and keep track of what you said plus what the response was, then when home, analyze it and try to see how you could have done it better. Curious if there’s anything else you would add there.

 

[Tony D]

This is really great, I need to start implementing this ASAP.

How do you get better at making insights? The way I think is to go out and try and keep track of what you said plus what the response was, then when home, analyze it and try to see how you could have done it better. Curious if there’s anything else you would add there.

That's easy... you have to be genetically different. Like, an ubermensch of seduction, bred through thousands of years, dating back before the giant mound builders of America....

I jest.

I learned from night game. Years of it. Just going around saying "Hi" was boring me, and it didn't seem to hook that well. So I practiced coming up with good indirect openers. I tried an infinite number of improvisations, and most of them sucked. Actually it's how I still open usually. I look for a good reason to open, something I can comment on that sounds different, unique, witty. If I have none of that, then I say hi.

So other than reading a lot of books, I'd say massive amounts of practice is your best bet. Though books help because they fill your head with things other than video games. I still try to read an hour a day, and I find in my conversations a lot of that comes out. Also pop culture stuff from Netflix, tv, Internet. Like for example I'm watching Vikings at the moment. So sometimes I make references to Valhalla. And I was just watching a documentary about ancient giants in America, which used to rule these lands.

 

[Glow]

Nice point. i like it. always a fan of skilful uses of verbiage. I remember reading about Pimps using similar insightful observations, though commenting more on how uniquely her body was i specific ways.

Only thing from my experience to be careful with is that often girls are often in their own world. You need to catch their attention and hit them vocally sharp for this for them to compute it or even get it.

I would personally do an initial simple opener along the ones you refuse. hi you look nice is good and will stop her. Or hi i like your red converse. And then follow up with It takes a real nose for style to match red converse with a yellow skirt as a buildout and shoot additional assumptions from there. Several hardcore day gamers support this eg Yad which is where i learned it from. So kiss on the initial opener - it should literally just open.

The simple lines can work as intrigue before you go concrete too - delivered as a flow it adds to the emotional stimuli w. a lil positive intrigue.

Just something to consider - many ways to Rome.

 

[HeartRipper]

@Tony D,
This is an amazing reminder.

So kiss on the initial opener - it should literally just open.

The simple lines can work as intrigue before you go concrete too

100%.
The opener sometimes should simply do that...open the girl, get her attention and then deliver the insightful magic. Otherwise, the last thing you want is a girl asking "what?" from not having heard what you said, and then having to deliver the whole line again.