Zeke here. This is a repost of my comment on the article "3 Second Date Strategies." Some details have been added since I first posted the comment as I remember more details about the conversation.
I recently started following GirlsChase over the past few months and I'm liking the changes I'm seeing when I'm employing what I've learned.
I've got a situation similar to what's being described in the article and I need some help.
I went on a date but I did not get intimate because I lost my nerve to escalate, and also because I know more about this young woman that made me think she does not want 1st date intimacy at all.
This woman ("Anna," names and details changed to protect privacy - she is 4 years older than me, I am 26) I have been friends with for some time now and I actually went out on a date with her last night. We both met in grad school, with her a year below me, and she was initially assigned as my mentee. At the time, we danced west coast swing together. We danced infrequently with each other even though we were going to the same clubs.
When I first met her as a mentee I was a little smothering as I tried to help her out - but also because she was engaged to someone else at the time. There was no way I could have gotten to her.
When she called off her engagement she then started having several boyfriends in a row - all turning out to have qualities she hated (controlling, self-centered). I initially wasn't sure how to handle this change, but when we met up recently, 2 weeks ago, she told me that her latest boyfriend/date was turning out to be less than desirable and she "didn't see things going anywhere with him because he wants a casual fling and I want an actual relationship." I seized the opportunity and asked her out to dinner a few days later, which happened yesterday.
There were some good signs that the night was going to go well. You can verify me to make sure I did things right. When I initially called to confirm the date, she put up a little bit of resistance by saying that her friends had been asking her to attend a birthday party at a bar in the city. I calmly and firmly addressed her objections by saying that her friends would have many more wonderful birthdays to attend, and that I would love if she came with me to dinner. "We'll have dinner, and then we'll see where the night takes us." Anna replied, (in what I think was a joke) "I don't like the sound of that, it sounds shady, going downtown, and 'let's see where we go from there.'" I defused that objection calmly and jokingly, "Oh, Anna, are you that scared of me, I promise I will do all that I can to protect you."
When I got to her door I was floored because she was dressed to the nines - short dress, heels, makeup, everything. I had thought she was going to be a little more casual. Hell I even tried to convince her that she didn't need makeup, she was already beautiful as she was.
I made sure to speak slowly, move slowly, be firmly in control at all times. I had rescued the date from not even happening when the original date site was closed early - thankfully, there was a mall nearby with a nice Asian restaurant inside and we swiftly changed course. Conversation during the date was good, mostly informational, with a lot of humourous topics thrown in. I deep dived quite a bit and came up appropriately when needed. I got in several sexual innuendos and was able to bring the conversation back to normal topics quickly after seeing her reaction. The first innuendo I used successfully was when she described using large surgical tools on her job - "Oh, so you like playing with big sticks?" - I held her gaze and gave her a sexy look. She was caught off guard but laughed, in my opinion she wasn't really turned off by it. She eventually got to use some of her own sexual innuendos ("see, I can do it too!") Used strategic touch (mostly hand on the small of her back) in order to guide her through areas.
ADDED: More details on the conversation are as follows - I am posting these to see if you can give me pointers to build off of for the 2nd date.
o Revealed that she would have rather been an investigative journalist if she didn’t go to grad school. Also revealed that she has never been to France, or anywhere outside the US due to lack of money. Was a cross-country runner and band geek in high school. Revealed that she had braces in high school and avoided boys back then because “they were always horny”
More strange things kept happening (in my opinion). As we walked out of the restaurant she suddenly snaked her arm around my elbow. I was a little stunned by this because I only see her do this if I ask her to dance - in swing or salsa, it's better to offer your elbow because then you don't pull your lady too hard towards the dance floor. She noticed me being stunned, then asked "Oh I thought you were holding it out for me to grab on to like we're going to dance!" I don't remember what I said afterwards but I was struggling to unlock my own hand to hold her hand because I wasn't sure what to make of her behaviour at this point. She kept this up for a very long time, over halfway to the car. She let go because "am I too close to you or something?" So I didn't pull her back because I didn't want to look like I was needy.
I walked her to her door she invited me inside for a drink (water - I have a family history of autoimmune liver disease). She showed off her personal suture kit to me (this is where I made the first mistake, perhaps), and then she hugged me goodbye.
This is the only move I made:
Me: Thank you for being my date.
*attempted lifting her chin to kiss her like in the movies - I stopped because I thought I felt some resistance, and also because I wasn't sure if Anna had called if off with her other date/boyfriend.
Me: Oh, I think I know your boundaries by now.
Anna: What do you mean?
Me: I was going to kiss you, but I realized I don't know if you're still dating the other guy.
Anna: Oh no, it's not like that --
Me: (I cut her off) I see then.
*Kiss - now in this case, I don't know what I felt. Her lips felt soft, but also pretty thin. Both our mouths were closed and I didn't taste any lip gloss. She may have pursed her lips right at the last moment. I'm sure I'd know if her mouth was open. She smiled afterwards, though.
Me: (jokingly) I missed, didn't I? (In reference to a story I told her earlier about botching my first kiss in college)
Anna: No, you didn't. (still smiling)
Me: Thanks, and good night.
And with that, I walked out of her house swiftly, and didn't look back. I had used up a lot of energy IMO to even line up the kiss properly and recover from what I thought was a botched attempt, so my word choice may have been wrong, as well as my actions.
I'll tell you about the mistake I made above - she was showing something of value to me, and I should have rewarded it by moving closer to her and putting a hand on her back and also showing interest in the item. The suture kit is something I'm familiar with as well, because I'm a technically oriented guy and I have used it a lot myself during the same grad school courses she is going through now. Seeing the item didn't generate interest in me as I thought the item was rather commonplace.
I didn't want to escalate because 1 - I didn't have a condom. 2 - I read her as the type to be resistant to 1st date intimacy no matter what. 3 - I haven't really looked into breaking down a woman's resistance yet. 4 - Taking her back to my place would have been a bad idea - you see, I'm staying at my parents place for a month while they are helping me out with getting me to job interviews. The place is a disaster and is also undergoing remodeling - not the best place to take a girl home to.
So, in summary, my date went "okay." I don't think I made any atrocious mistakes, but I didn't sleep with her. The conversation was great (lots of laughs and innuendos) but I couldn't tell if she wanted sex - unless the sexual innuendo she threw in at the last moment was any indicator. The backdrop for her being neutral is that we've known each other for some time.
Either way - the situation is this now - she's on her way down to Miami with her sister and I may not be able to see her for a couple of weeks. I already texted her saying that I had a great time and I would love to see her again - she had mentioned going to the inaugural ball with some friends during the date. ADDED - there may be a time period where I can see her when she returns to the area for a giant swing dance party - she may be gone for at most 9 days max.
The idea I have running around in my head now is that the second is, yes, going to be informational and short as possible, hoping to get her towards intimacy faster. Either it's going to be another restaurant, or the inaugural ball (actually probably a bad idea as it's a party date) - the one with the highest risk but also the highest reward factor is coming over to her place and cooking her something, because my parents' place is way too messy. The issue is that #1 - her final exam may be that day and she's too tired - #2 - I don't know what day the inaugural ball she is going to is on and #3 - I need to be back on the main campus for the remainder of my courses sometime that weekend - she is at a satellite campus of our school right now - the satellite campus is 100 miles away from the main campus.
So, how does my thought process and date look? What would I have improved on? What should I be doing for the 2nd date?
Should I cook for her for the 2nd date (and attempt to get intimate with her on that date), or should I take her out again for another simple date? I'll definitely be keeping up the sexy vibe I did during this first date, but I know now I may need to push harder to create a better sexual frame, I think. I think I am absolutely horrible at making sexual innuendos and I don't know how I pulled the above one off. I could use lots of help in this area, too. One example I think I can employ is "missionary position"- she had once linked up with a Christian missionary/medical group to provide care for the indigent in Costa Rica.
I thank Chase for giving me this response, and I would like to see what others think as well:
Thanks for all your help.
Zeke
I recently started following GirlsChase over the past few months and I'm liking the changes I'm seeing when I'm employing what I've learned.
I've got a situation similar to what's being described in the article and I need some help.
I went on a date but I did not get intimate because I lost my nerve to escalate, and also because I know more about this young woman that made me think she does not want 1st date intimacy at all.
This woman ("Anna," names and details changed to protect privacy - she is 4 years older than me, I am 26) I have been friends with for some time now and I actually went out on a date with her last night. We both met in grad school, with her a year below me, and she was initially assigned as my mentee. At the time, we danced west coast swing together. We danced infrequently with each other even though we were going to the same clubs.
When I first met her as a mentee I was a little smothering as I tried to help her out - but also because she was engaged to someone else at the time. There was no way I could have gotten to her.
When she called off her engagement she then started having several boyfriends in a row - all turning out to have qualities she hated (controlling, self-centered). I initially wasn't sure how to handle this change, but when we met up recently, 2 weeks ago, she told me that her latest boyfriend/date was turning out to be less than desirable and she "didn't see things going anywhere with him because he wants a casual fling and I want an actual relationship." I seized the opportunity and asked her out to dinner a few days later, which happened yesterday.
There were some good signs that the night was going to go well. You can verify me to make sure I did things right. When I initially called to confirm the date, she put up a little bit of resistance by saying that her friends had been asking her to attend a birthday party at a bar in the city. I calmly and firmly addressed her objections by saying that her friends would have many more wonderful birthdays to attend, and that I would love if she came with me to dinner. "We'll have dinner, and then we'll see where the night takes us." Anna replied, (in what I think was a joke) "I don't like the sound of that, it sounds shady, going downtown, and 'let's see where we go from there.'" I defused that objection calmly and jokingly, "Oh, Anna, are you that scared of me, I promise I will do all that I can to protect you."
When I got to her door I was floored because she was dressed to the nines - short dress, heels, makeup, everything. I had thought she was going to be a little more casual. Hell I even tried to convince her that she didn't need makeup, she was already beautiful as she was.
I made sure to speak slowly, move slowly, be firmly in control at all times. I had rescued the date from not even happening when the original date site was closed early - thankfully, there was a mall nearby with a nice Asian restaurant inside and we swiftly changed course. Conversation during the date was good, mostly informational, with a lot of humourous topics thrown in. I deep dived quite a bit and came up appropriately when needed. I got in several sexual innuendos and was able to bring the conversation back to normal topics quickly after seeing her reaction. The first innuendo I used successfully was when she described using large surgical tools on her job - "Oh, so you like playing with big sticks?" - I held her gaze and gave her a sexy look. She was caught off guard but laughed, in my opinion she wasn't really turned off by it. She eventually got to use some of her own sexual innuendos ("see, I can do it too!") Used strategic touch (mostly hand on the small of her back) in order to guide her through areas.
ADDED: More details on the conversation are as follows - I am posting these to see if you can give me pointers to build off of for the 2nd date.
o Revealed that she would have rather been an investigative journalist if she didn’t go to grad school. Also revealed that she has never been to France, or anywhere outside the US due to lack of money. Was a cross-country runner and band geek in high school. Revealed that she had braces in high school and avoided boys back then because “they were always horny”
More strange things kept happening (in my opinion). As we walked out of the restaurant she suddenly snaked her arm around my elbow. I was a little stunned by this because I only see her do this if I ask her to dance - in swing or salsa, it's better to offer your elbow because then you don't pull your lady too hard towards the dance floor. She noticed me being stunned, then asked "Oh I thought you were holding it out for me to grab on to like we're going to dance!" I don't remember what I said afterwards but I was struggling to unlock my own hand to hold her hand because I wasn't sure what to make of her behaviour at this point. She kept this up for a very long time, over halfway to the car. She let go because "am I too close to you or something?" So I didn't pull her back because I didn't want to look like I was needy.
I walked her to her door she invited me inside for a drink (water - I have a family history of autoimmune liver disease). She showed off her personal suture kit to me (this is where I made the first mistake, perhaps), and then she hugged me goodbye.
This is the only move I made:
Me: Thank you for being my date.
*attempted lifting her chin to kiss her like in the movies - I stopped because I thought I felt some resistance, and also because I wasn't sure if Anna had called if off with her other date/boyfriend.
Me: Oh, I think I know your boundaries by now.
Anna: What do you mean?
Me: I was going to kiss you, but I realized I don't know if you're still dating the other guy.
Anna: Oh no, it's not like that --
Me: (I cut her off) I see then.
*Kiss - now in this case, I don't know what I felt. Her lips felt soft, but also pretty thin. Both our mouths were closed and I didn't taste any lip gloss. She may have pursed her lips right at the last moment. I'm sure I'd know if her mouth was open. She smiled afterwards, though.
Me: (jokingly) I missed, didn't I? (In reference to a story I told her earlier about botching my first kiss in college)
Anna: No, you didn't. (still smiling)
Me: Thanks, and good night.
And with that, I walked out of her house swiftly, and didn't look back. I had used up a lot of energy IMO to even line up the kiss properly and recover from what I thought was a botched attempt, so my word choice may have been wrong, as well as my actions.
I'll tell you about the mistake I made above - she was showing something of value to me, and I should have rewarded it by moving closer to her and putting a hand on her back and also showing interest in the item. The suture kit is something I'm familiar with as well, because I'm a technically oriented guy and I have used it a lot myself during the same grad school courses she is going through now. Seeing the item didn't generate interest in me as I thought the item was rather commonplace.
I didn't want to escalate because 1 - I didn't have a condom. 2 - I read her as the type to be resistant to 1st date intimacy no matter what. 3 - I haven't really looked into breaking down a woman's resistance yet. 4 - Taking her back to my place would have been a bad idea - you see, I'm staying at my parents place for a month while they are helping me out with getting me to job interviews. The place is a disaster and is also undergoing remodeling - not the best place to take a girl home to.
So, in summary, my date went "okay." I don't think I made any atrocious mistakes, but I didn't sleep with her. The conversation was great (lots of laughs and innuendos) but I couldn't tell if she wanted sex - unless the sexual innuendo she threw in at the last moment was any indicator. The backdrop for her being neutral is that we've known each other for some time.
Either way - the situation is this now - she's on her way down to Miami with her sister and I may not be able to see her for a couple of weeks. I already texted her saying that I had a great time and I would love to see her again - she had mentioned going to the inaugural ball with some friends during the date. ADDED - there may be a time period where I can see her when she returns to the area for a giant swing dance party - she may be gone for at most 9 days max.
The idea I have running around in my head now is that the second is, yes, going to be informational and short as possible, hoping to get her towards intimacy faster. Either it's going to be another restaurant, or the inaugural ball (actually probably a bad idea as it's a party date) - the one with the highest risk but also the highest reward factor is coming over to her place and cooking her something, because my parents' place is way too messy. The issue is that #1 - her final exam may be that day and she's too tired - #2 - I don't know what day the inaugural ball she is going to is on and #3 - I need to be back on the main campus for the remainder of my courses sometime that weekend - she is at a satellite campus of our school right now - the satellite campus is 100 miles away from the main campus.
So, how does my thought process and date look? What would I have improved on? What should I be doing for the 2nd date?
Should I cook for her for the 2nd date (and attempt to get intimate with her on that date), or should I take her out again for another simple date? I'll definitely be keeping up the sexy vibe I did during this first date, but I know now I may need to push harder to create a better sexual frame, I think. I think I am absolutely horrible at making sexual innuendos and I don't know how I pulled the above one off. I could use lots of help in this area, too. One example I think I can employ is "missionary position"- she had once linked up with a Christian missionary/medical group to provide care for the indigent in Costa Rica.
I thank Chase for giving me this response, and I would like to see what others think as well:
Thanks for all your help.
Zeke
