On Fighting

[thedude]

Hi guys,

I am not making this post to ask about how to punch someone in the face but rather how to deal with physical challenges to one's manhood.

This happened to me about twenty minutes ago while I was walking back to the dorms with my fraternity brothers.

Where it happened does not matter but while we were leaving a building, Connor, someone who I would call a good friend at this point decides to shove a damn doorstop up my ass. Now it was not extreme but it was not fun either and I shoved him off. A shoving contest then ensues and then continues to get more and more physical(1). Some shit talk also happens and Connor begins to then spit in front of me where I walk. I cannot remember the exact conversation while he was spitting in front of me but it was like this
Me: what are you doing?
him: what are you going to do about it?

Eventually I decide that my course of action will be to return fire, but I up the anty and try and get much closer. In doing this I end up spitting right on his shoe and he is less then enthused. He gets into my face(2) and we start shoving each other pretty hard now. Eventually Dave comes in and holds Connor back afraid that fists were about to be thrown. We continue to walk to the dorm and me and Connor trade some more shit talk until it finally ends.

We talked a little after that but the tension was still there.

(1)- At this point Connor put his hands up and I instinctively did the same. I did not think he would just jab me and yet I still put my hands up. Is this weak?
(2)- Another mannerism I think may be weak. When he got in my face i put my hands up palms facing him and lightly pressed against him for space.

What should I have done?

 

[Corky]

I am a high ranking blackbelt and a Master instructor in various martial arts and the best way to avoid a fight is to simply not egg it on. I am also in a fraternity and know how brothers can be sometimes and I will either tell them to grow up or simply to knock it off. Just make your voice stern, not yelling, and tell him some variation of what I said. He'll respond with either a smart ass comment or an apology. If its a smart ass comment just something along the lines of "whatever man you need to just respect your brothers" if its an apology just make it light hearted so he knows you guys are cool while knowing he crossed a line.

There are times when its best to not worry about your ego and following the more mature route is the more "manly" route in a lot of peoples eyes. Nothing good ever comes from fighting.

 

[Jay]

Collegefreshman,

What I am interested in knowing about the situation is if this is someone you would consider a friend, why did you take enough offense to him essentially just fucking with you to shove him angrily? That is if you did in fact shove him angrily. If you were laughing when you shoved him and he took it the wrong way, he is in the wrong, and even if you were angered by it and he did it lightheartedly, he is still in the wrong because he shouldn't have freaked out about it no matter what your response was if it was meant as a joke.

Bottom line is he was in the wrong either way for taking offense to any sort of response to his joke short of you punching him in the face, but I am still interested as to why you took offense to it. (Granted this could just be a case of the two of you being too drunk, in which case I wouldn't worry about it.)

As to what to do when this happens, never physically fight your friends unless there is a genuine reason to, especially not your frat brothers. If this was a stranger sticking a doorstop in your ass and trying to fight you it would have been a completely different story.

Jay

 

[thedude]

Collegefreshman,

What I am interested in knowing about the situation is if this is someone you would consider a friend, why did you take enough offense to him essentially just fucking with you to shove him angrily?

Jay

That... is a very good question. Lately I have been thinking a lot about the humor between me and my friends/brothers. This "fucking with" humor is directed at me a good compared to others deal in my friend group. Although it is all in good fun and we have a laugh... I feel like if there was a huge muscly guy in our friend group he would not receive this type of humor at all.

I feel weaker/less masculine for being subjected to it and since I am trying to become a more dominant and assertive man I feel I cannot afford to have this go on, it should not be going on already for it only happens to weaker men.

 

[Light]

I don't call that a friend, and if he is, then he hasn't matured enough brain cells to understand what mutual respect is.
This usually happens when guys like Conner feel that they are the weakest in the group, and that it is neccesary to show some sort of drama to bump up his status.
I don't associate with these kind of people, and should something like that happen, I give them a warning.
"What are you going to do about it?".... I'll just simply reply "Nothing, but I don't want to see your face again. I don't associate myself with idiots."

I'm a guy who likes to talk things out, and if they don't want to listen, I just remove myself from them forever. But should things become aggressive, I don't shove, I punch and I knock him out

 

[Tyme2k]

I feel weaker/less masculine for being subjected to it and since I am trying to become a more dominant and assertive man I feel I cannot afford to have this go on, it should not be going on already for it only happens to weaker men.

I think in your type of environment, things like this will happen. Chase has a few articles he wrote recently that might help you. I'll try to remember them as I give my 2 cents. I presume you are coming from non-dominant/weaker frame and guys around you will sense this as you become more dominant. Your body language should be actively changing, your eye-contact, and demeanor. Other guys will sense this as a treat and push your congruence. Hold your frame bro. I would suggest refraining from being aggressive, be stern and direct, but not violent. Remember law of least effort. This applies to all situations even fighting.

Being in your college environment you will have lots of males competing for alpha status. You will notice a lot of inexperienced guys trying to lower your social status to gain status of their own, this is the article from chase(Social ladder climbing??), maybe someone could point you to or you hopefully already read and might want to revisit. I'm going to tell you a stroy and maybe I can convey what I did to help you understand how you should be responding as a dominant male.

My bother's birthday, my main wing Mark and I are getting his ass super drunk. He loves getting people drunk so now it's his turn! Mark is a more aggresive type person to obtain his alpha status, I'm sure he will eventually grow out of this, but it has got us in a few fights so far. I on the other hand have been working on releasing my aggresiveness and negative vibes. I feel more power when I use tonality, body language and stern gestures. I apprehend people for stealing and risk fighting every day, so engraining these qualities in myself are a must if I don't want to fight every day.

Anyhow My bro and Mark create some heavy tension in a similar manner you spoke of. My bother fucks with Marks hair and antagonizes him, Mark being the more aggresive and clearly dominant male out of the two, gets angry immediately. He tries to control it, but my bother continues antagonizing. I was not present during the initial antagonizing, or I easily would have stepped in before any real violence started. I think a true Alpha leads everyone around them, I think of a pack of animals when two start getting out of line, the alpha does not approve of this behavior and corrects it with a simple low effort gesture. If someone antagonizes the alpha he does not over react, but a simple low effort gesture should usually stop the lower value male from continuing.

I digress, now mark is angry and stands up, my brother will not back down because we have been feeding liquid courage to him all night. Now I see them and begin observing. I notice that Mark is extemely angry and immediately walk up to him and firmly grab his arm. He feels the tension and turns his attention towards me. I camly yet sternly tell him to stop and sit down. At first he is reluctant and my bother continues to antagonize. I ignore the antagonizing and continue to tell Mark to stop, this way he can sense that the antagonizing is nothing important since I can completely ignore it. My brother starts to angrily attempt to push through me and I still ignore it. After I can see Mark can see he is just drunk and obviously it's not important to me it's time to ignore it and remain low effort.

Now I turn towards my brother and instantly stop him, I have established alpha over him since we were children so this is literally effortless. He will never be aggressive towards me and knows that it would NEVER be tolerated. My bother doesn't completely give up and continues to try to antagonize from a distance, I camly and assertively place my hand on his chest and pierce his eyes then say, "Go!" he gets upset and kicks over a chair walking away. In my opinion the behaviors of both men are that of less dominant males. These types of actions are unecessary for a true alpha or higher status male. Immediately after I redirected the energy of all the people around. My dominance and low reaction was easy for everyone to follow and even Mark, still full of tense emotions, was able to relax and return back to the task at hand, gaming a super cute redhead, lol.

In this situation I was not actively in the fight as you were, but I easily could have been. But what if Mark had done exactly what I did in that situation? I am very confident to say if he showed his dominance with low effort, camly, very stern and assertively he could have de-escalated just as easily as I did.

I know this may not help your specific situation, but maybe it gives you an overview of two ways to react to aggresive situations. You must remain in control and not over react, this makes it easy for others to follow your lead and know when they are out of line.

I think these are the articles:
https://www.girlschase.com/content/when-course-correct-socially-and-when-not
https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-power-shift-social-cunning-and-savvy
https://www.girlschase.com/content/archive-ultimate-social-calibration-stop-climbing-social-ladder

 

[Altimeter]

Don't start fights for no reason and don't randomly attack people if drunk.

But you should also respect yourself as a man and demand the same respect from others. If a guy approaches you and talks shit spits at your face
and insults your honour. Fuck him up, ignoring evil doesn't make it go away.

 

[Jay]

Collegefreshman,

In addition to what I said earlier, Altimeter did have a point on defending your honor I want to add to. If you are fighting with friends, usually it never ends up being particularly serious and just tends to be drunken anger that can be hugged out later.

On the other hand, if some stranger is getting in your face, won't listen to any sort of reason, and it gets to a point where you really need to defend yourself, then beating the dudes ass is certainly an option. Also, I personally believe that if you see your friend getting beaten on, it is your obligation to jump in. Many people might not agree with me on this, but I personally will not stand by and watch my boy possibly get injured when I could do something about it.

Jay

 

[thedude]

Thanks for all the great replies guys. I appreciate it.