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On the topic of the Byronic Hero...

Thinkingenigma

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Nov 25, 2012
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In Chase's recent article, he talks about the Byronic hero. Now, I may have read it wrong, but it sounded as if he was saying that the goal of becoming this type of man is to get girls to "white knight" and thus make you their project. This seems a bit counter intuitive. I understand how those characteristics can be useful, but I don't understand the frame. There was a girl last semester who I really liked, and I fell hard for her. We had some really great conversations, and I thought she was really into me, but after I opened up to her and told her a bit about my past, she stopped expressing sexual interest in me, and started treating me as a project. Up until that point, I still had a shot, but when I realized that had happened, I moved on because I realized that nothing was going to happen there. Obviously I made mistakes there (didn't move quickly enough, etc.), but what really marked the end was when she started to see me that way. Did I misread her? Could I still have had a chance there? At this point it's irrelevant for that situation, but I'm wondering if I was wrong about a girl putting you in the "project zone" (so to speak) being a bad thing, or whether I was looking at it the wrong way.
 

Garrett

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Dec 23, 2012
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Thinkingenigma,

I think with your situation last semester, things weren't really heading anywhere anyway. I think one of the main reasons is, you moved too slowly, and there may be other factors at play as to why things didn't go the way you hoped, but only you know the reason(s) for this because you know your situation better than all of us. Anyways, with that being said, I think it depends on what you told her, how you told her, and if what you said can be correlated with who you were when you told her. For example, if you said, "Well I used to be a loner" and you came across with a similar vibe, the vulnerability factor wouldn't have worked optimally. You want to make sure that when you open up to the girl, that what you're saying isn't an indication of who you are now. Like if you were in jail before, you should say it looking clean cut and as if she could never have imagined you in jail before. If you were a loner before, you want to say it only if she knows/sees you have a lot of friends and a prosperous social life.

Furthermore, from my interpretation of the concept of Byronic Hero, Chase is basically saying that a lot of guys either don't take care of themselves, or they do too much/go on the other extreme to really pump up their value and to appear flawless. He's basically telling us to follow the middle path; develop yourself into a high value guy, via fundamentals, or whatever you want to pursue. In order to reduce your value and to 'bring yourself back down to earth', he's saying that you should express some vulnerability, via words, actions. In other words, if you're a bit arrogant like me, don't be afraid to show it, despite the fact that some may consider it a 'flaw'. People are more attracted, and I'd say it works both ways, to people who are high value and desirable, but at the same time, have flaws that make them imperfect, more humanlike, and thus, more relatable.

For example, I think Kim Kardashian is sexy. She's short and not as thin as a model, but the fact that she doesn't have the perfect model type figure is what I like. If you're a soccer fan like me, look at Cristiano Ronaldo. He's Portuguese, like myself, so I understand the way he acts. A lot of people call him arrogant though, and it's traits like that that make him seem more relatable and like a human, thus a reason why I admire him so much. He's got the looks, and can get any girl he wants, but at the same time, he's got his faults, and isn't afraid to admit it.

Maybe you don't relate to the examples I've mentioned above, and that's fine. The point is, when people seem too perfect, you feel like there's something wrong. Whenever you've come across an event or person in your life, and they seemed to have everything going for them and nothing wrong, you tend to get a bit suspicious that they're hiding something/acting fake, thus liking/admiring them less. Too flawless and you won't be relatable/attractive, and too lazy and no one will want anything to do with you. Aim to master, but not to be perfect at mastery ;).

Cheers,
Garrett
 

Franco

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Nov 14, 2012
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Hey Enigma,

Not knowing too much about your situation, the issue might have been that you opened up to her without leaving much mystery as to why you are the way you are. Did everything about your past come up in one, big conversation?

If so, you probably want to avoid that. If you notice, in most "Byronic Hero tales," the woman tends to only find out bits and pieces of the hero's past until she finally puts it all together, but by the time she has put it all together, she is already head over heels for his masculinity and obscured flaws.

Take a look at this quote from Chase's article:

Then they come to a man who does not have that approach. That man has a few interesting items out on his table, and boxes upon stuffed boxes behind him, with no indication into what's inside. "These are neat..." says the girl, examining some knick-knacks. "What else have you got?" The man shakes his head; sorry, I can't let you see that. She presses, he apologizes again. Then, he has to disappear into the back room; she sneaks a peak into one of the boxes, getting a glimpse of that which all the other customers never get to see.

Specifically, "The man shakes his head; sorry, I can't let you see that. She presses, he apologizes again. Then, he has to disappear into the back room..."

Part of getting her to invest in you here is the mental aspect of it: make her wonder what it is about you that makes you different, but don't show her all of your cards! Make her chase you and try to dig deeper and deeper. I think the real key is that you need to bed her before she finally gets to open the sealed box! Once she's your lover, then she will naturally find out about your darkest secrets, and she'll want to try to "white knight" it out of you. But if she knows your flaws/secrets before she's your lover, then she'll just see you as a weaker man who she feels sorry for but not sexually attracted to.

I might be off the mark here, but I thought I would provide some input!

- Franco
 
you miss 100% of the shots you don't take

Thinkingenigma

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Messages
293
Franco said:
Hey Enigma,

Not knowing too much about your situation, the issue might have been that you opened up to her without leaving much mystery as to why you are the way you are. Did everything about your past come up in one, big conversation?

If so, you probably want to avoid that. If you notice, in most "Byronic Hero tales," the woman tends to only find out bits and pieces of the hero's past until she finally puts it all together, but by the time she has put it all together, she is already head over heels for his masculinity and obscured flaws.

Take a look at this quote from Chase's article:

Then they come to a man who does not have that approach. That man has a few interesting items out on his table, and boxes upon stuffed boxes behind him, with no indication into what's inside. "These are neat..." says the girl, examining some knick-knacks. "What else have you got?" The man shakes his head; sorry, I can't let you see that. She presses, he apologizes again. Then, he has to disappear into the back room; she sneaks a peak into one of the boxes, getting a glimpse of that which all the other customers never get to see.

Specifically, "The man shakes his head; sorry, I can't let you see that. She presses, he apologizes again. Then, he has to disappear into the back room..."

Part of getting her to invest in you here is the mental aspect of it: make her wonder what it is about you that makes you different, but don't show her all of your cards! Make her chase you and try to dig deeper and deeper. I think the real key is that you need to bed her before she finally gets to open the sealed box! Once she's your lover, then she will naturally find out about your darkest secrets, and she'll want to try to "white knight" it out of you. But if she knows your flaws/secrets before she's your lover, then she'll just see you as a weaker man who she feels sorry for but not sexually attracted to.

I might be off the mark here, but I thought I would provide some input!

- Franco

Thanks guys. I think you just about nailed it. While it hardly came out in one big conversation (in fact, it was over the course of several weeks), I think it was the combination of not moving fast enough and telling her stuff that was the problem. I seem to have a consistent problem with girls at school. It's a very conservative Christian school, and I always get the impression that girls here are either unwilling to sleep with guys, or I feel like if I take them to bed, I'm taking advantage of them. I know why that frame is wrong, and I don't have this problem with girls I meet outside of school, but I can't seem to shake it here on campus. I think part of it has to do with the fact that I still haven't slept with anyone yet, and if I screw something up due to my inexperience, my reputation at school is on the line. I think that once I can get one or two successful lays, this problem should go away because I'll feel more confident in my skills, but right now, it's absolutely killing me.
 
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