One of the biggest mistakes I;ve seen pua make is to spend too much time talking to a female who isn't interested. I observe many pua, and sometimes I will see them talking to females for 10 minutes. Then, afterwards, I ask the pua, did you get a number? He says no. So, I;m like, why did you talk to her so long? He said, I liked the conversation. To me, I feel like that's just a waste of time. If you're out there looking for females, then you got to stay focused. Don't waste your time talking to females who aren't interested in you. For every minute you spend talking to a female who isn't interested, you can be spending that talking to someone who is. No salesman is going to be talking to a customer for 10 minutes if he knows they're not going to buy their product. You want to focus on customers who actually are going to buy something. When you walk into a store, often times, storekeepers will know right away if you're going to buy something, and knows who not to waste his time on. No sense in talking someone into buying a Rolex if you know they're not going to buy a Rolex.
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I understand you point in terms of simple numbers if you are doing day game but if you are in a socail setting then it's a more complex dynamic that you need to work with.
Being good with women is about more than just basic numbers . There is an art to conversation that takes practice and when there is no pressure in terms of wanting to escalte you can be much more free about trying out different frames or seeing what reactions you get.
Similarly the fact you are talking to a hot girl who is presumably enjoing the conversation provides significant social proof towards your next target.
Being good with women is about more than just basic numbers . There is an art to conversation that takes practice and when there is no pressure in terms of wanting to escalte you can be much more free about trying out different frames or seeing what reactions you get.
Similarly the fact you are talking to a hot girl who is presumably enjoing the conversation provides significant social proof towards your next target.
Come on bro. How many hot chics have you talked to? 99% of hot chics I have talked to give very bad conversations. I can even go as far as to say that hot chics tend to be (not always) evil. Don't misinterprete this as women hating. I don't hate women, just stating a pattern I noticed. When it comes to conversations, it's a bad idea to practice on hot chics. The chics I find to have good conversations are avg, to below avg looking. I've talked to a lot of people, and I find that if the vibe is not there, and 90% of the time, it's not, then it's best to just walk away. And the 90% is with a mixed bag of males, and females. When it comes to hot chics, I'd say that 99% of the time, the vibe isn't there, unless there's a mutual attraction. And I'd say, if I went into a busy street in NY, 1% of the females would be attracted to me, and vice versa. Honestly, I think that when I'm talking to someone, and she isn't contributing anything of value, then I don't know what I'm still doing there. People always talk about men of high value, but we should be looking for women with high value more than anything else. Walking away from hot chics with no personality also tells me that I have standards, and that I'm not just looking for some random cute chic to date, which is a mistake that alot of pua make. Another mistake pua make is they are trying to be someone they're not in order to impress a chic. People always tell you to be yourself, and if you're trying to modify your conversations to please a female, then something is wrong. If you're an anime nerd, then be that anime nerd. Find yourself a female who is an anime nerd. We all grown men here, we know how to have conversations. All of us do, and we do it all the time, even with people who work in stores, and security guards, and yea, we do get better with conversation when we practice, but If there's no chemistry between us, I find that talking with hot chics is one of the most annoying things on earth. And I don't think I've ever gained anything by stretching out a conversation with a hot chic. In fact, I just say to myself. Damn, I just lost 10 minutes of my life here talking to someone who contributed nothing to my life. A lot of times, I will just say dumb things so she will end the conversation with me. A lot of guys want to say they're the prize, or they're high value, but if you are, then you definitely won't be talking to some female if you believe it wont be leading anywhere. A smart salesman is someone who knows when someone's actually going to buy something. He can sense if you will buy something or not. It saves him a lot of time and allows him to focus on real customers. A dumb salesman will waste his time on a customer who isn't even going to buy anything while allowing for the genuine customers to slip away because he was wasting his time on the fake customer. A smart male will say hi to a female, and within 1 minute, he will know if it will lead to something or not. Heck, if you look at the smart salesman, he won't even need to talk to you to know if you're going to buy something. He just looks at the way you carry yourself, and he will know. With females, it's kind of similar. Obviously, some females are shy, and don't know how to act in front of males, but if she is normal, then she will make it known to you that she is interested. I went through long periods of time where I would just say what I say, see if she asks for my socials. If she doesn't, I just leave, because honestly, I thought it was just too thirsty for me to be begging for socials. If she's into what your saying, into your style, she gonna ask for socials. It's the era that we live in. I had females ask for my socials even when I'm asking for directions. For example, I'm at the college campus. I ask her where the gym is. She tells me. Then she asks me if I'm a freshman. Just that question alone indicates some kind of interest, meaning that the conversation can go further. A lot of pua try to force it, which is a big mistake. I know a bunch of puas, and they get lots of numbers. But remember this. Just because a chic gives you her number, doesnt mean she's ever going to call you back. So you can use all the riz you want, but at the end of the day, if she wasn't into you, she aint gonna call you. High value men don't need tactics. All you gotta do, and all I do is, say hi, ask their name, and if they are friendly, then I continue as if I was talking to anyone else. Where you from? What's your job, etc. If they're not friendly, then I'm gone after she gives her name. And believe me, I've gone down that route of trying to trick a female into liking me, and even though I slept with some females, it really wasn't worth it. I'm still thinking, instead of wasting my time trying to shag these broads that weren't even really into me, I could be spending my time with females who matched my energy, not just for 1 hr, or 1 day, but for days, and weeks. I am looking for repeat customers, not a fly by night.
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Sounds like you really need to come here and preach less and work on your fundamentals more.
Maybe the redpill/black pill forums are more your speed?
I don’t feel like reading the rest of your giant wall of babble is worth my time. Maybe the reason 99% of your conversations with women suck is because you suck at having conversations?
Or maybe your time isn't really worth that much if you're a tribal elder on here? Why you mad though? Guess you one of those guys who just go on talking endlessly when females show no interest in you? You sure I'm the one who needs to work on my fundamentals if you still on here after 11 yrs trying to figure out how to "seduce" females?
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fucking hell another one. worse than bed bugs
as bad as guys who try to seduce females who have no interest in them? or as bad as guys who have nothing to offer, and resort to tactics hoping to make up for their shortcomings?fucking hell another one. worse than bed bugs
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yes
well you would know cause it sounds like you one of them
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There are many reasons a PUA would like to talk to a girl who is technically a dead-end: social proof, getting momentum, getting useful information, calibration, building a network, getting to know a certain kind of girl, qualifying, etc…
Add to that, the fact that beginners are usually in such scarcity of female interaction that just having a friendly conversation with a woman is interesting by itself.
Also, 10 minutes??
Come on dude, I would have sided with you if you’d say 30… but you don’t have 10 minutes to spare in a friendly conversation?
That speaks more about you.
It’s enjoyable for beginners.
While I agree it’s unproductive, I don’t see reason for the hate.
Let them enjoy the baby steps.
This is a misrepresentation.
I’ve sold 20+ millions of dollars worth of services.
No customer who ever paid me more than 10K USD spent less than one hour with me.
And my close rate has NEVER been higher than 25%.
You seem to be focusing on the way low ticket products are sold (by volume)… high value products (and women) take a different approach.
Your bottomline point is good - you need to better target and use your time efficiently.
But there’s a lot of nuance you’re just throwing out the window in an effort to preach.
I mean no offense, man… but all these statements just show you’re still naïve and fresh to this PUA world.
There is a half truth in all of them… and a lot of lost finesse.
We appreciate your passion and we encourage you to keep trying stuff, discovering and learning about this beautiful art of seduction.
Just don’t come with level 1 skills and tell everybody wrong in a place filled with level 10 guys.
You’re deep in Dunning-Krueger… which is cool, because it means you’re learning.
But you won’t make many friends lecturing people who know better than you.
And yes, we can tell.
So my suggestion is just play it cool… you’re welcome here… you got nothing to prove.
. 
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Word, how is 10 minutes a lot of time?
This really sounds like another entitlement post.
I feel a bit too lazy to write all kinds of nuances which come to mind. Seems like ulrich did a pretty good job with that.
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@VITALY this is really bad form, coming as a newbie onto a forum full of guys who know what they are doing, arguing and insulting them instead of learning from them.
Usually this results in an insta-ban, lately we have too many time wasters who are not interested in actually learning seduction but just want to prove some point they have circling around in their head (usually put there by some red/black pill videos they've been watching on youtube instead of actually spending time around women).
I didn't read much of your stuff, the wall of text gives me a headache, but I did read the original comment.
Zero nuance here and no value whatsoever. You really need to make your first posts questions rather than this level of humdrum.
Sure, it's usually best to move things along fairly quickly. But girls are different, some are more receptive to long conversations (usually the introverted ones with strong imaginations), while others are on-the-go and impatient and like guys who are the same vibe. I've laid women after spending half an hour walking and talking together on the approach, and done the same with less than five minutes.
There are very few if any hard rules in seduction. There are principles. And principles can be validated in all sorts of different ways, as long as the sum of your actions results in the right frame and the right energy for a specific situation.
While seduction has some similarities to sales, it is at best an extremely crude analogy. Because seduction is not so much about selling yourself as much as it is selling the woman a reflection of herself and an experience of her own. Some women (usually the ones who are on the hunt for boyfriend material, which isn't the best frame to be in) are keen to tick off boxes on you like you're an appliance they are buying from the convenience store. And if you're some super high status dude, you can effectively sell yourself on that basis. But the ones who are looking for a new experience of life, when you seduce them well, they throw away all the checklists, because it isn't really about you - they want you to show them what they can be. And that is really where seduction veers away from the typical redpill stuff that revolves around SMV and selling a product.
I don't really know what these dudes you mentioned were doing, since you don't provide any details about the interactions. Maybe they were spinning their wheels and wasting time. But reducing seduction to this idea of waving products around and expecting customers to be ready to buy or not, has no benefit to anyone.
Usually this results in an insta-ban, lately we have too many time wasters who are not interested in actually learning seduction but just want to prove some point they have circling around in their head (usually put there by some red/black pill videos they've been watching on youtube instead of actually spending time around women).
I didn't read much of your stuff, the wall of text gives me a headache, but I did read the original comment.
Zero nuance here and no value whatsoever. You really need to make your first posts questions rather than this level of humdrum.
Sure, it's usually best to move things along fairly quickly. But girls are different, some are more receptive to long conversations (usually the introverted ones with strong imaginations), while others are on-the-go and impatient and like guys who are the same vibe. I've laid women after spending half an hour walking and talking together on the approach, and done the same with less than five minutes.
There are very few if any hard rules in seduction. There are principles. And principles can be validated in all sorts of different ways, as long as the sum of your actions results in the right frame and the right energy for a specific situation.
While seduction has some similarities to sales, it is at best an extremely crude analogy. Because seduction is not so much about selling yourself as much as it is selling the woman a reflection of herself and an experience of her own. Some women (usually the ones who are on the hunt for boyfriend material, which isn't the best frame to be in) are keen to tick off boxes on you like you're an appliance they are buying from the convenience store. And if you're some super high status dude, you can effectively sell yourself on that basis. But the ones who are looking for a new experience of life, when you seduce them well, they throw away all the checklists, because it isn't really about you - they want you to show them what they can be. And that is really where seduction veers away from the typical redpill stuff that revolves around SMV and selling a product.
I don't really know what these dudes you mentioned were doing, since you don't provide any details about the interactions. Maybe they were spinning their wheels and wasting time. But reducing seduction to this idea of waving products around and expecting customers to be ready to buy or not, has no benefit to anyone.
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Btw I want to add something to all of this to the newbs, sometimes when you talk to a girl and she makes it difficult, it is not her rejecting you, but her not being primed for you. People are in different mindstates, I have gotten girls I have thought really dislike me at first approach. There really is value in disengaging a girl when it seems not to go anywhere but keep eyes on if she is changing her mood/feelings about you.
This hardcore screening is inexperience...
This hardcore screening is inexperience...
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Vitaly is banned.
Felt like watching that scene from The Hobbit after each reply.
Felt like watching that scene from The Hobbit after each reply.
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jesus! anyways, hot women can not entertain every dude that tries to talk to them, that would be hell... They have to be more standoffish, more cold etc..... They get hit on by everybody, every conversation even if is normal is a dude trying to fuck them anyways.... they get the clingy and stalkers creepy guys at times that don't get hints..... Is not personal, the burden of proof is on the dude, that is how it goes..... The rest of what you are saying is correct you don't want to waste your time with a set going nowhere, is common sense... But there are ways to get better results, for example there are ways to avoid social media, social media exchange for 95% of the guys is a mistake in itself...(this is for example a tactic that works if you know how to do it).... Also most girls are not going to call you lol, women don't call now a days, you need to text them, again the burden of proof prior to sex is on the man.....
Read this post dude:
The problem with a few naturals and anti-gamers that join the community----
Some of This happened to me when i joined the community in fairness i was not as bad as what i am seeing today, so i know what i am talking about (the thing is I would not be as retarded as guys that are rightfully ban from the forum and i was actually open and looking for answers all along...
www.skilledseducer.com
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I don't agree. I use EVERY INTERACTION (including with men or women I don't like) to practice some crucial fundamentals: being relaxed, interesting yet less invested than the other person, masculine, grounded.... with very beautiful women, I also practice the feeling of being completely at ease talking to them... as at ease as when I am chilling on my sofa watching a sports game and drinking a beer with a guy friend.
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