PUA's >VS< NATURALS

[Altimeter]

There's this major flaw about guys getting started in seduction and end usually up reading tons of books and forum material.
The thing is most sites and coaches over complicate things, ESPECIALLY the creepy pickup artists! The more we get into detail like,
kino escalated, deep dived, made rapport etc. the crazier it gets.

All we have to do is approach a woman, flirt with her, get her to move with you, touch, kiss and have sex, boom!

In my opinion the more we get into detail we over complicate, all of this and it almost looks as if people just didn't seduce women before
PUA's came around. Since it's all formulated like an IKEA wardrobe manual


What do you guys think? Is it smart or a good idea to really get into all those techniques and tactics?
or do you just go and do what comes naturally?

 

[Verisimilitude]

I think there is three "stages" of learning seduction. First, you have to learn the information which means you have to over analyze and have everything spelled out for you, then you have to practice and constantly have it in the back of your mind (hardest step I think) and then it becomes secondhand nature and its natural. The tough part is transitioning through each step.

 

[trashKENNUT]

I am a natural myself. Trust me when i find myself hard to consume Girlschase material. I firmly believe in learning the ocean so you know how to sail on it although you know sailing.

Sounds abit blah blah but yea.

Zac

 

[Good Vibes]

What do you guys think? Is it smart or a good idea to really get into all those techniques and tactics?
or do you just go and do what comes naturally?

If you do what comes naturally as you put it you will continue to make the same mistakes as you have before. If you're happy with that then fine but if you want to do better then you need to learn as much info as you can so to eliminate those areas that are holding you back and then gradually what you call "what comes naturally" will come from a base of learnt knowledge from other peoples years of experience and wisdom instead of just your own experiences. It's like a new salesman who's had a little bit of success before who thinks he can sell the companies product without specific training on the best known way to sell the product.

 

[Drck]

Totally agree, getting her should be quite simple. Trying and doing all the PUA material overcomplicates things, you only build barriers against yourself. On the other hand, having the knowledge is quite important, knowing "how to" in various situations makes things much simple(r) and smooth(er).

I am a big believer in fundamentals, they simply work for me and with little persistance the doors are just openning... Good fundamentals plus confidence, and getting bunch of good females will just come naturally. But I had to learn the fundamentals, without them I was lost.

My problem is that all this is working nicely on "beta" girls so to speak, but I am breaking my teeth on "alfas" - meaning highly educated, beautiful, independent, financially self-sufficient and so on. It is a barrier, brick wall, I am out of ideas and have no other options than "chase". I had to put this one consciously on pedestals, made a total goddess from her, and then drop her to normal human level - just so she sticks around with quite of an interest, otherwise she would be long time gone... I mean, I feel like attacking dog around her, I am doing things against basic PUA knowledge, but it is the only thing "working" for me. I am actually amazed myself how could she withstand my presence with this behavior for so long... But she is cool. I tried the same on "betas" - they ran away and never came back...

Anyway, it is just frustrating. Anything I tried she was/is simply at least one step ahead of me. My experience is, on these women no PUA material is working, only pure honesty and if you don't have exact plan nailed down to every possible detail, she is just not going to stick around... You hesitate for a second, and she is gone...

Chase's material is a big eye openner, as far as understanding of what is going on it takes my "understanding of woman" to a totally different level. There are many great insights on the web, namely Can't stop thinking of her (I dropped her the same day of reading that article, othewise it would take me weeks), and last week Women as sex objects - this is perhaps the best material I've ever seen. I tried to "imagine" how I undress her in my mind and picture her naked - two hot females noticed it within seconds, they were just staring at me with wide open eyes, and one of them immediately asked what I have been doing all night while acting all nervous... That was a true shocker for me, it was really strong, I couldn't believe it... This imagination stuff is unbeliavable, I am surpriced no one is exploring it in more details...

 

[Altimeter]

Great post Drck!

I do agree with some points there. It's funny, when I get into game-PUA mode I start thinking of it like it's an online game where I'd have to be lvl 58 to get this girl and chatting her up will boost morale and energy etc. which kinda makes me creepy cause women notice when you want to get something from them.
Thing is Drck; Beta's, Alpha's , HB10's are all human like us. If you're unsure about approaching women like these due to fear of rejection, well you just have to approach and ask as many of them as you would with other women. Your 1 or 2 approaches may not go down so well but in the long run you can get the same success with them as you would with others.

Do you feel like approaching them as a PUA doesn't work on these women? Have you tried approaching them as you would normally?


Vibes
For yourself, has mastering the PUA material like you've compared to seasoned salesmen, lead you to success? Do you still use these techniques when approaching women or are you more casual, natural with your approaches?

Zac

No actually I'm curious please elaborate.
How much of GC material do you use in actual life? Do you feel that you struggle when you try to use this information you've gathered or
have you adapted these techniques to go on with your life.? Do you feel like you should act a little more methodical when seducing sometimes to get better results?

CCC

So you see it a bit like a martial art. Where constant practice of the method leads to practical use. In which case for you the PUA material should come naturally almost or do you feel like if there's a bit of a struggle moving things forward, do you go back into your head and look for the material you've learned in the past like ask the cube question or she did this this this so maybe I should deep dive or touch?

 

[Drck]

Hey Altimeter,

I don't know, there are simply girls/women with whom I click more, and with others less. Once in a while, I just realy 'click' with some of them quite well, while with others the interaction seem to be more casual, not so exciting... I don't know if it is always like that, but the last 3 out of 4 I clicked with were "Alfas".

The way I see it, there truly are beta and alfa females. I guess some are just "natural", the same way as we describe men or wolfs. To me, Alfa's are totally different. I know they are just humans, but they do act differently. For example, I can gradually increase compliance in beta female, she doesn't even register it. She can't "see" through it, and if she does, she doesn't really care that much. With Alfa, she lets me do it once without noticing, but then she puts brakes on, starts monitoring it, and then only gives me compliance when she chooses.

It is like as if she is aware of what I am doing, she simply "sees" through my attempts, and she wants to remain in charge. Other example, with touching. I don't have a problem touching new beta female, starting with touching and holding hands, and keep doing it until she starts hitting back on me and giving me hints that she wants to do it. I got quite a lot of offers from betas recently, not even trying. But I'll do the same once with Alfa and she "gets it" right away. Then I don't repeat it for a while because it causes her to move away. I had a pretty decent physical escallation with her in the past, but then I screwed up and she moved away. I mean, she is ahead of my game, without knowing the game. I don't know how to explain it...

Another thing, those Alfa's I know are rather quite active and dominant, even though they appear very sweet. I knew this one for quite a while. She was always nice and sweet "little girl", though she is a mature woman. One day she just "grew up", all of the sudden she was two heads taller than me - totally dominant, requesting and persisting things from me, tried to boss me around... I knew right away it's some kind of freaking test, so I immediatelly put breaks on, started to ignore her request... It took me several days but I over-dominated her. After that she was still acting like this for some 3-4 weeks, it was quite a surprice to me, and not reading through PUA material I would be totally lost. But now she is back to that sweet little girl, and never tried that thing on me again.

This Alfa I know also have internal frames set in stone, it is very difficult to change them, especially if she is quite conservative. And she is, but so am I. She was very specific that nothing would happen so to speak "quickly", and she she rejected every single one of my attempts... Well, should I really be surpriced...?

The only thing that appears to work at this time is brutal honesty. That makes her weak. But for that, one needs to know exactly what he wants, which was my problem at the time I met her. I simply didn't set my frame the right way from the beginning, and then I started to change it. I admit, I am clumsy. She obviously registered it and since that she is watching. At this time I am just pushing my frame on her, over and over. It appears to me that she is slowly giving in. I will just keep pushing and pushing untill she either gives in or totally rejects me. So far she lets me while remaining nice and sweet. I don't honestly know how she does it, others would tell me to f-off. Perhaps I can't even be more obvious. It is quite exciting, but at the same time exhausting...

I know, I know, abundance mentality...

I just tried that "imagination" thing with her, and her reaction seems to be positive. She initiated quite interesting conversations with me right after that, asked me quite unusual questions, and I know she is thinking quite hard. That is a huge progress in comparison to some while ago. At that time she was in total denial.


Anyway, I don't fear the rejection. I was in great pain before so I am careful, my investment into her is rather conscious than blind. If nothing else, I learned so much from this interaction, while at the same time reading Chase's articles... This is a great learning curve for me.

So, I don't even know what is "normal" anymore. You tell me

 

[Good Vibes]

Vibes
For yourself, has mastering the PUA material like you've compared to seasoned salesmen, lead you to success?

I'd never at any stage now or in the future consider myself as a master at PUA skills. However it has lead me to success. There are no real major differences between selling and picking up girls. I think of women as customers and men as Salesman and that's not condescending women, it's just how it is. I should point out that a good salesman where possible will always let the customer tell you why they must have your product and you must always be ready to close the deal even before you've given your full presentation.

Do you still use these techniques when approaching women or are you more casual, natural with your approaches?

Your question tells me that your mindset needs tweaking a bit. When you learn, practise and internalise a technique it then becomes your own (a part of you) so it doesn't feel like a technique it just feels casual and natural. If a woman senses a technique used on her, her instinct tells her to be careful.

 

[trashKENNUT]

No actually I'm curious please elaborate.
How much of GC material do you use in actual life? Do you feel that you struggle when you try to use this information you've gathered or
have you adapted these techniques to go on with your life.? Do you feel like you should act a little more methodical when seducing sometimes to get better results?

I am used to going with the flow, talking to women and having girls and that but there was loopholes in my process. and when i find Girlschase, it kind of fits in together.

I used a lot of GC material right now, from text messaging, to conversations, although i don't talk very much and things are well, my fundamentals are good, and still working on it. Not breaking circle and all the stuff you can find on GC But the thing is i feel systematic when seducing, and although i got better results, there was something i felt like what Chase mention, Spell broken, and the girl i recently met, knows it, and it didn't go well.

Still in digestion mode,

Zac

 

[Nuncle]

There's this major flaw about guys getting started in seduction and end usually up reading tons of books and forum material.
The thing is most sites and coaches over complicate things, ESPECIALLY the creepy pickup artists! The more we get into detail like,
kino escalated, deep dived, made rapport etc. the crazier it gets.

All we have to do is approach a woman, flirt with her, get her to move with you, touch, kiss and have sex, boom!

In my opinion the more we get into detail we over complicate, all of this and it almost looks as if people just didn't seduce women before
PUA's came around. Since it's all formulated like an IKEA wardrobe manual


What do you guys think? Is it smart or a good idea to really get into all those techniques and tactics?
or do you just go and do what comes naturally?

I don't know about those techniques, I guess they're just like any form of exercise in any area of self-help/self improvement.

But for me the value of this site has been in re-adjusting and in some cases clarifying my thinking:

The divide between friend/lover and provider (previously I was trying to be all 3 at once when on the pull)
Using sympathetic words but neutral tone
Commanding
Investment
Not showboating
Different ways to handle challenges
Not judging
Seduction efficiency

The media gives you all sorts of conflicting messages on these things and its easy to make excuses for yourself so its great to hear what works from people who are very skilled with women.