Putting on pedestal and chasing HARD : why it often/sometimes works ?

[lux7]

I was researching a bit this salesman, Cardone to understand how well the "hard" sales actually works -that all he does basically, just "on coke" hard sell- and I came across how he met his wife.

He saw her, decided she was the one for him, she wanted NONE of that, but he kept going.

He saw it as a sales to be achieved.

And kept going.

And kept going.

Until she relented.

And now they're together.

This guy looks clueless when speaking about women though he dresses well and he's successful, below is the video for this specific case, but let's keep it general, I've heard similar stories more than once and you probably have as well (I say often/sometimes because I don't have statistics, I've never heard of someone who chased this hard and didn't work as people are probably ashamed of saying as you're being borderline stalker, but I suppose it also happened many times).

Any idea on this subject?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-kCDwIgmUY

 

[ProblemSolving]

There's a couple of things to keep in mind about where you take your advice from. First, the guy in the video clearly has an agenda to sell his Sales books. With that said, persistance does yield results in both sales and getting girls...SOMETIMES. It's a matter of efficiency though. This guy spent 13 months texting this chick each month to finally land a date with a girl who really didn't see much value in him initially. She finally decides to go out with him when there wasn't a better option available. Not exactly the kind of girl that would want to get into a relationship with.

Think about how many opportunities with other girls this guy passed up while he was pursuing this one girl. This one girl that took 13 months to get a date with! She wasn't exactly burning with desire to see him haha. If I had to guess, once she found out how much money he makes, the passion kicked in. Another explanation is that she was in a relationship for those 13 months and when things started to go downhill, she gave this guy a shot. Either way, he threw away so many opportunities with other girls, in order to have a shot with this girl. Not smart in my book.

 

[lux7]

Man, don't get me wrong, I totally agree it's not smart.

And probably even more importantly, it's not the best way to start a relationship.

Given how idiotic it is, that's what actually surprises me: that... It works (sometimes).

I wanted to see if someone around here has a bit more experience on these cases and how often it actually works

 

[ProblemSolving]

It's not that surprising when you understand how sexual availability works. She was most likely in a realationship for those 13 months and this guy kept in contact once a month to see what her situation was. When things started to go south in her realtionship, she accepted his offer.

Understand that during those 13 months, she most likely wasn't rejecting him because she wasnt attracted, she was just focused on another guy.

This is why girls who "rejected" you from a long time ago can still become lovers in the future when you run into them. You didnt change but her relationship situation changed.

 

[Drck]

There are more ways to get a girl. Chasing and putting her on a pedestal is a common way for average guy, he doesn't know any better. Does it work? Yes, but it is not efficient, you have to spent lots of energy and time on that one particular girl, plus the risk of being rejected is high.

While chasing and putting her on a pedestal, there is also a difference in the guy's personal value. For example, these two guys are chasing:

Guy A has a low value, is not that charismatic, has low paying or average job, has no or little social status: he will be most likely rejected, his chances are low. He can be easily perceived as creepy, insecure, needy and immature...

Guy B has a high value, has good income, good charisma, and decent social status: He has good chances, the girl might even be flattered by being chased by him, she might feel good when high value guy shows an interest in her. She might be putting up her barriers, but at the same time she wishes that he will eventually get her (if she is free)...

Note that we are rather talking about providers. It is actually not that uncommon that when guy A changes his status (eg gets better position and better social status) that the girl will change her mind - now she will show an interest in him because now he has higher value in her eyes.

Seducer has different motivation, thus totally different approach. He is not chasing one pussy only, he spreads his focus on more girls. He shows an interest in the girl, but if she is not interested enough he moves on...

Interestingly, there is also quite a strong emotional bond between you and the girl you chase or chased intensively in the past, assuming that she doesn't perceive you as a needy creep. She knows that you are/were very much interested in her, and if you have high value (or value that can potentially increase in the future), she may want to keep you around, even for years. She may perhaps contact you one day out of the blue. It's not really out of the blue, it is because now she perceives you as a high quality guy, and perhaps because she is free now - or seeking to be freed from the guy she is with now in a near future... Amazing stuff...

So, work on your value and don't be afraid to chase occasionally. Show strong intensity, let her run away, then forget about her. Chances are that she will come back, with quite interest in you...

 

[lux7]

Yeah, I was actually thinking if it could be used as a tactic.

You keep going for other girls as well and pinging that one (or two or three) girl(s) that are somewhat really so special for you for whatever reasons with like with 1-2 phone call/text a month, even when they all go unanswered -as it was the case with that guy- (I know some you will think this is not absolute abundance, but if your taste are very atypical then it might be very possible you really don't see your kind of girl that often).
Then, once she'll be free, if she's not hating your guts, then she might be thinking of you.

If you don't think of her all the time, 2 calls a month it's actually low effort.

I don't have any experience, that's why I opened the topic, but the main doubt I have about a strategy like is that... It might actually be high chances she will hate your guts and very possibly block your ID/Facebook etc.

 

[Thedoctor]

Lux,

From my own experiences and observations, I can say that, if done properly, this tactic can work.

In this particular case, he may not have been pursuing other girls, which is obviously a problem, as ProblemSolving mentioned.

When I've seen this type of thing work, it's typically not that the girl was in a relationship (more specifically, a serious relationship), it's that, for whatever reason, the girl is just not that interested/excited for this guy.

Then if he persists (even if it's done in a cool socially calibrated way), the girl might just eventually shrug her shoulders and decide to go on a date with him, but it's not like she's super into the idea. There might be a ton of reasons why she finally relented:

-she just got out of a relationship
-she's tired of "jerks" and this guy is putting in a lot of effort, so maybe he'll be different
-valentine's day/ other holidays is coming up
-one of her friends just got marrried, so maybe she's getting a bit desperate
-maybe she just needs a bit of validation
-maybe she just watched a cute penguin documentary on tv.

It doesn't really matter. The big problem with it is she was never super excited about the guy and will most likely never be super excited with him. This means he has to work harder to maintain her attraction.

If you're just smitten by a particular girl, and you need to have sex / fling with her, then by all means (though be careful not to invest too much energy). But I would strongly recommend not pursuing a long term relationship in this situation. Her desire for the guy will wane over time in most cases. After all, this is often the tactic "nice guys" use and we all know how that ends.

-John

 

[lux7]

Interesting contribution Thedoctor!

I totally agree you will start the relationship with (a lot) less power.

Which might be OK... if the guy knew how to handle things in a relationship.
If he knew how to, long term he might actually end up stronger than a a guy who slept with her quick and swept her off her feet.
After all, many seducers don't know how to handle relationship and will muck it up and lose respect along the way anyway.

So you basically might have like a descending curve for the seducer and an upward sloping curve for the chaser.

I believe though the issue for people resorting to this tactic as their only way to a girl is that, the vast majority of the cases, they won't be strong in a relationship either...

 

[Thedoctor]

Lux,

Which might be OK... if the guy knew how to handle things in a relationship.
If he knew how to, long term he might actually end up stronger than a a guy who slept with her quick and swept her off her feet.
After all, many seducers don't know how to handle relationship and will muck it up and lose respect along the way anyway.

So you basically might have like a descending curve for the seducer and an upward sloping curve for the chaser.

Someone more skilled in relationship management could make it work, but I wouldn't advise it. You're putting in a lot of effort to maintain her attraction for you, whereas you can find a girl that's basically the same, except she actually does get excited about you. Why continuously put in more work if you don't have to, especially if you have other goals in life other than keeping your girl happy?

Seduction is a numbers game. Once your decent at it, you realize you don't need to chase / manipulate the girl of your dreams. You realize that there is more than one "girl of your dreams" and you find the ones that also find you attractive. When the attraction is more mutual, it's a much better situation for both parties. This is why an abundance mentality is so important.

-John

 

[Thedoctor]

Radeng,

The way the doc pointed out is that nice guys make this happen and the girl settles and she feels like she settles and loses attraction over time but stays with the it for stability and a number of other reasons. This is certainly bad. But I would argue that you can turn low initial interest into chasing over time by tightly managing your investment, giving great orgasms, allowing her to push forward the deepening of the relationship.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but my question is: is it really worth the effort?

I'm assuming we're not talking about a girl who is very initially uninterested in you, and you turn that interest around over the course of one night or maybe the following meetup. Just to be clear, I was not commenting on these situations.

The original example (and question) was regarding a guy chasing a girl for over a year. Again, I think it can be done in certain circumstances, but I personally wouldn't cause it's so much easier to find a girl that doesn't take that much time and energy to get on a date. And as you mentioned, it becomes more work at the start of the relationship reversing the frames and getting her more invested. In the long term, it can certainly become much easier to manage (as with any relationship, but my theory is she'll always be more likely to stray).

Just because you can put someone on a pedestal, chase hard, and eventually get her, doesn't mean you should. But each to their own.

-John

 

[lux7]

It became a nice thread.

So a quick summary: it does work, it's not ideal, but you can still eventually bed her and manage to start a relationship.
At that point, if you have good relationship management you can nullify that bad start (here Thedoctor think it'll be more likely she loses respect and stray long term, Radeng not. I think the longer term we talk about, the less the start will matter until at some point it won't matter anymore).
So it might even become another tool in the arsenal for you to get girls, even if you're a skilled seducer.

Caveats: the line between chasing and persistence is a blurred one, she has to somewhat reply; you should keep pursuing other girls and not make her your only target.

Though I'd add here: in the example linked, the girl wasn't even returning the calls...

ABUNDANCE MENTALITY
One note I'd like to make on abundance mentality: it's often said as the final state you should reach and can reach at all the times. And it's true.
Ideally.
You do can with somewhat broad preferences.
But the longer and rarer your list of preferences the harder it is as you physically won't meet that kind of girl that often.

My example as follows, but you could find many more: I'm very short and don't want my girl to be taller, and you've already cut out a big portion. Then keep adding to the list: thin, Asian, great sense of style, soft spoken, no party, good family, trustworthy, altruistic, caring, smart...
Easy in Singapore.
But in Europe... There just aren't that many around.