Recently swallowed red pill / intense ex / children / lost and confused

[captaincactus]

Hi, so I’m at a crossroad in my life. 8 months ago, I split up with my ex after a 6 year relationship. She has 2 children, their biological father is an abusive monster in too many ways. I took the children on as my own, I am committed to them and have raised them almost every day for the past 6 years. Within these 6 years it's been a rollercoaster of dealing with life and all its challenges, whilst trying to maintain a LTR and raise challenging traumatised kids that arent my own. I have a close relationship with the children, I Don't want to lose them. Unfortunately my ex uses them as emotional tools to push me into a corner every time something isn't on her terms. She comes in the disguise of doing best by the children but I'm not fooling for it anymore, she is a highly narcissistic control freak that must be the centre of attention in any situation. She is highly manipulative in the most covert ways, extremely calculated and deep down pretty twisted and troubled. On the surface is very attractive, everyone looks at her, everyone loves her kinda person. I'm at the point now where I feel as if I need to be as far away from her as possible because her claws have been so deep inside me I've not even noticed, only now am I starting to see things for how they are.


Since we split up I have carried on living with the ex and the children in an attempt to wait for the right time to leave, to phase out of this routine and into another, with the minimum amount of harm to the children as possible. We have been trying a 50/50 arrangement with the kids. This situation has now become unbearable, Im fucking miserable, Im not myself, the ex makes my toes curl, Im short with the kids, the ex pushes me into a corner whenever I try to raise something, she is a control freak, she is clever, and is impossible to work with unless its on her terms. Most of our relationship I was in a beta frame and a complete sucker for her. However, life has been complicated for her with the kids real dad and I have been trying to help by sticking around until it's the right time for me to leave. I fear there will be no right time, the ex changes her plan all the time due to her chaotic life. I feel that one day she's going to turn around with her plan at the last minute and I'm going to be left to deal with everything. Finances and assets are messy but she's had complete control over it since the beginning and come the time to leave, nothing will be mine, she is clever she has planned it this way and I just feel like I'm being used for the kids until she doesn't need me anymore.

Basically I've had enough, I'm not going to wait for the right time. In my time off I've been out, I'm spinning plates, cold approaching, getting numbers, went all the way with one just last weekend. Reading, learning, growing, hungry for success. Making huge changes and climbing all the way. This situation is severely hindering my growth, this is huge success for me but I only wonder what heights I will reach when I am free from this toxic poison. Of course she blames it'll on me, everything is my fault, Ive only ever wanted the best and so far have submitted to almost everything. I'm 31 and I've been beta all my life, troubled childhood, bullied blah blah and now pushed around by an ex that I feel I can do nothing about out of fear of hurting the children. Im literally ready to take off , 2 lays in 2 weeks, plates spinning I want more more more! I know I'm hurting the children more by not being myself when I am with them and resenting them and the situation but its all because of the friction between myself and the ex. I know this can't go on anymore.

I'm planning to leave by the end of this week, I can't wait for the right time anymore. Am I doing the right thing? I know it's going to be difficult, I know she will up the emotional manipulation, she will take the car, the house, I'll have nothing left, I will have to let it all go as she plays the “you're not going to leave a single mum with nothing” card and start from scratch, I am ok with this. My biggest fear is hurting the children, I've promised them I will always be here for them. I plan to set myself up somewhere asap, and have them over as much as I can, the change is going to be soooo hard and Im scared shitless, Im scared she will stop me seeing them altogether, Im scared I truly will loose everything. But I’m thinking I’d rather lose it all and get out of her net rather than be trapped in it and still have a relationship with the kids. I don't think she will stop it altogether because I have a very deep bond with them and she will struggle on her own as she likes her own time. I guess from here, I'm still going to be under her control but at least it will be from a distance, I can put boundaries up, there can be a set routine with the kids etc. This is my ideal, but I know this world is far from ideal.

Looking at any positives, I am in shape, my game is getting good, I am seeing success in many areas of my life outside of this mess. My biggest fear is letting the children down like my Dad did to me. I want to break the cycle, be a good Dad and be there for them. But I’m absolutely useless to them all the time I’m still attached to their Mum. Resent grows every day, it's making me ill. Am I doing the right thing?

Thank you for taking the time to read my story, sorry it's a little long but I wanted to paint the picture as best I can. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[HoofHearted]

captaincactus, this needs IRL help and support. Is there anywhere you can go to for help or for guidance?

You're not in the best state to consume online dating material. Even on here, lowkey subtext is misogyny and objectification and selfishness. Probably any emotional interpretation you're going to make about material is going to take you to a darker place because of your emotional state and the chorus you will find.

Love and connectedness are real things. Women, though they share a common nature, are three dimensional people and exist in realities outside the influence of our actions or control. <- reminder

Now is a time to find actual resources.

 

[topcat]

Lol fuck them kids man. They’re the main source of your problems and they’re not even yours. If you leave and they are worse off for it, sleep comfortably at night knowing it was her fault. She drove the only good male influence in her children’s life away. It’s not your problem. She needs to go and reconcile with her babyfather or work something out with daddy government for their provision because they ain’t your problem.

Sounds harsh, but i’m really not trolling on this one. Fuck them kids. They’ll have to take it up with mommy when they’re older.

 

[HoofHearted]

Lol fuck them kids man. They’re the main source of your problems and they’re not even yours. If you leave and they are worse off for it, sleep comfortably at night knowing it was her fault. She drove the only good male influence in her children’s life away. It’s not your problem. She needs to go and reconcile with her babyfather or work something out with daddy government for their provision because they ain’t your problem.

Sounds harsh, but i’m really not trolling on this one. Fuck them kids. They’ll have to take it up with mommy when they’re older.

The right mentality for lawns, objects and maybe animals.

Fuck that lawn, not even my lawn, don't have to mow it no more.

Children however are blameless and add a moral weight. They will know the loss of a parental figure, by a person who once upon a time agreed under his own power to the burden, acted and served it. Reaped the joys, too, because sometimes there is a joy for parents/parent figures.

I'm not saying I know the solution. Just saying I understand the tangle, and as you get older, your life becomes far less about yourself.

 

[topcat]

The right mentality for lawns, objects and maybe animals.

Fuck that lawn, not even my lawn, don't have to mow it no more.

Children however are blameless and add a moral weight. They will know the loss of a parental figure, by a person who once upon a time agreed under his own power to the burden, acted and served it. Reaped the joys, too, because sometimes there is a joy for parents/parent figures.

I'm not saying I know the solution. Just saying I understand the tangle, and as you get older, your life becomes far less about yourself.

Empathy really is something. Misplaced in this situation i would say though.

Is it right to sacrifice your life for children that aren’t yours born to a mother that uses you for their provision and abuses you for the sacrifice? Where is OP’s empathy for himself? Time wasted on another man’s spawn is time and energy that could have potentially gone towards finding a suitable mate and producing healthy children of his OWN in a far better environment.

It’s unfortunate those children were born to unfavourable conditions to a hag of a mother. Such is life. Let life and their mother deal with the consequences.

 

[captaincactus]

captaincactus, this needs IRL help and support. Is there anywhere you can go to for help or for guidance?

You're not in the best state to consume online dating material. Even on here, lowkey subtext is misogyny and objectification and selfishness. Probably any emotional interpretation you're going to make about material is going to take you to a darker place because of your emotional state and the chorus you will find.

Love and connectedness are real things. Women, though they share a common nature, are three dimensional people and exist in realities outside the influence of our actions or control. <- reminder

Now is a time to find actual

captaincactus, this needs IRL help and support. Is there anywhere you can go to for help or for guidance?

You're not in the best state to consume online dating material. Even on here, lowkey subtext is misogyny and objectification and selfishness. Probably any emotional interpretation you're going to make about material is going to take you to a darker place because of your emotional state and the chorus you will find.

Love and connectedness are real things. Women, though they share a common nature, are three dimensional people and exist in realities outside the influence of our actions or control. <- reminder

Now is a time to find actual resources.

Sure, my family have been telling me what I already know, my friends have just smiled along with me and said, what a good respectable man I am. Deep down there’s no equilibrium, it doesn’t feel right, I feel like a fraud trying to be their father. They’re troubled, I give them comfort, they have relied on me for a long time. I don’t want to take that away from them. I’ve been in denial of being under her control since the day I said I wouldn’t allow it, slowly but surely she’s been pulling my strings.


I’m confused because on the flip side I have experienced exponential growth in my game, my confidence, success in other areas of life but now I’m at a stage of probably the biggest decision of my life so far. I am fearful of it, I’m guess I’m just looking for a push off the cliff ha!

not sure I follow the women being a three dimensional existing in realities outside of our own point?

Thanks again for your input hoofhearted, I value your words

 

[captaincactus]

Empathy really is something. Misplaced in this situation i would say though.

Is it right to sacrifice your life for children that aren’t yours born to a mother that uses you for their provision and abuses you for the sacrifice? Where is OP’s empathy for himself? Time wasted on another man’s spawn is time and energy that could have potentially gone towards finding a suitable mate and producing healthy children of his OWN in a far better environment.

It’s unfortunate those children were born to unfavourable conditions to a hag of a mother. Such is life. Let life and their mother deal with the consequences.

Harsh but true

 

[TomInHo]

@captaincactus not sure why you're wasting time with her and the kids honestly. I get trying to be a good guy but right now you're being a pushover. The kids ain't really your responsibility and you don't owe them shit

Sure you can be a good role model when they're around but if the ex is making it so difficult why are you really there? Why can't you go create life with another woman that would actually respect you?

Sometimes you have to be selfish and do what is best for you and please believe your ex will find another guy to replace you as the father figure of her kids

 

[Bill]

you sound like you have savior / fixer / codependent traits.

 

[topcat]

I’m confused because on the flip side I have experienced exponential growth in my game, my confidence, success in other areas of life but now I’m at a stage of probably the biggest decision of my life so far. I am fearful of it, I’m guess I’m just looking for a push off the cliff ha!

Lol @captaincactus look at it this way..

Right now you're a warn out out caretaker over the empire of an absent and neglectful heir. The fields fallowed, the cattle sickly and starved, despite your best efforts.. You yourself grow sicker by the day. The heir himself has no intent of returning to his wasteland and yet you toil and tend to barren ground for no wage, save some thin moral idea that it is the right thing to do. You'll receive no reward at the end of this. Even god doesn't pity fools...

Go build your own empire King. None of this belongs to you.

 

[HoofHearted]

Empathy really is something. Misplaced in this situation i would say though.

Is it right to sacrifice your life for children that aren’t yours born to a mother that uses you for their provision and abuses you for the sacrifice? Where is OP’s empathy for himself? Time wasted on another man’s spawn is time and energy that could have potentially gone towards finding a suitable mate and producing healthy children of his OWN in a far better environment.

It’s unfortunate those children were born to unfavourable conditions to a hag of a mother. Such is life. Let life and their mother deal with the consequences.

What will be is what will be

And at the end of the day there isn't a sum we can do for an objective moral calculation.

But, apart from twisting a conclusion out of what I'm saying, and apart from this response and the others...

How convenient it is on the internet to do such a calculation for somebody else. My real answer is... "not anything you're going to read here" and "find more help."

The perspective that OP accepted a role for someone (defenseless children) 6 years ago (maybe all their life), and he has agency to drop this role as it suits him, reeks of the misapprehension of self-centered youth. That was a promise. It makes sense to feel weight.

Again, I have no solution for him. But let's not pretend. "He shouldn't have to endure the abuse" agreed, no one should. "He has the choice to leave for any reason" so do biological parents, though the state may get involved and make them mail a check. What shining moral beacons.

"Peace out! Next pussy, bro, NBD" the internet. And watching OP respond, I get the sense this might be what he wants to hear.

The details here in OP are actually minimal, scant and biased. And already I can tell it's off the rails for any non-real (ie, all of our) feedback.

So that's my bet. Go find a councilor, a mental health resource, a priest, etc. And good luck.

 

[HoofHearted]

Sure, my family have been telling me what I already know, my friends have just smiled along with me and said, what a good respectable man I am. Deep down there’s no equilibrium, it doesn’t feel right, I feel like a fraud trying to be their father. They’re troubled, I give them comfort, they have relied on me for a long time. I don’t want to take that away from them. I’ve been in denial of being under her control since the day I said I wouldn’t allow it, slowly but surely she’s been pulling my strings.


I’m confused because on the flip side I have experienced exponential growth in my game, my confidence, success in other areas of life but now I’m at a stage of probably the biggest decision of my life so far. I am fearful of it, I’m guess I’m just looking for a push off the cliff ha!

not sure I follow the women being a three dimensional existing in realities outside of our own point?

Thanks again for your input hoofhearted, I value your words

I find this topic so interesting... even seductive (sorry) to write about. And though it leads from OP's original intention I hope it spawns further discussion. I have nothing else for you, OP. Now I'm just spinning discourse.

What I feel I'm seeing here are predictable knee-jerk response to an extension of something. An almost Freudian fear of a term 'cuckold,' or 'beta.' It's like there's something frantic in the air. Like the thought of it makes spines tingle and guts wrench.

Conversely we have terms like 'King' 'Pimp' or 'Playa' or 'Mack Daddy.'

I wish for a metaphorical shut down of all computers. There are many insights to be found on this forum and others (this is the only forum I sort of know, though). But one thing I can tell you, even with some of the fantastic output from the great writers like the guy who writes the articles... sex and relationships will almost never look like what you find presented to you here. Or anywhere, maybe.

Like that quote 'Take no L's.' A two dimensional pictorial of a winner. Meanwhile, you live in the painful 3D kingdom of time and place.

You can get better at relationships. You can have healthier connections. You can improve your life. But no matter how you 'play the game,' there is no world were you don't 'take an L' sometimes. You will at times encounter loss and you will at times feel pain. Sometimes in life you will be 'that asshole.' You very well may get cuckolded like a Shakespearean play-- are you in a drama like 'Othello' (he kills everybody) or are you in a comedy like 'Much Ado About Nothing' (he almost kills everybody but it's funny). You actually don't control whether a woman you love has sex with another man, it could happen to you. There could be a situation where you fall in love with a woman that already has children (omg pre-cuckolded!)-- that actually does happen.

These fears strike me both as real (oh I've felt them) and juvenile because the nature of it seems to stem from a caricature of a cartoon character. Something that doesn't exist in any degree of sophistication. The dream of only positivity. The image of a half of a whole.

This is a general meditation for the purpose of discussion. I am in no way saying I view OP as being in a ideal position.

Personally, I don't think anything has humbled me more, or taught me more, than women. They've humiliated me, served me, taught me lessons, embarrassed me, been embarrassed by me, undeserved by me, deserved me. And you would have to say I've been statistically successful with them-- the numerical element would stand (I am a ho), and the subjective quality of experiences I would report may be interesting to you idk.

Recently someone saw me reading. I read prodigiously. Looking at the sophistication and quantity of what I read, they said they can't believe it's so easy for me. I had to explain to them that it isn't easy, I assure you I have harder problems. Things are more complicated, intricate and the ideas are bigger. If you're bent is to enjoy a beach novel occasionally, or 'reading wasn't your thing in school,' you cannot even see the problems I am having, and the less definitive answers I arrive at.

As I move through my volumes of women, and deeper interactions with women, I realize there are guys that, just as I read in the example above, do 'women' better than me. Generally I am happy because I am moving toward their problems, and their reflections help me, which is an assurance that I'm growing. But that's just it-- their problems and their sophistications are becoming visible to me as I grow.

And boy do they sometimes suck. Sometimes worse than any level 0 'cuckold' or 'take no Ls' or 'redpill' (note: I do not actually know what this term means) fantasy fears that precede them. Some of y'all have felt real pain, and a few of you talk about it.

No one 'games' so good that they have a perfect life (I hate that it's called 'game,' it should be called something else). No one 'reads' so good that they don't have problems.

 

[Skills]

you sound like you have savior / fixer / codependent traits.

yeah, he needs to read "no more mr. nice guy" by glover...... You have a lot of nice guys traits.... About the kids it seems you got attached to them.... I would be kj, never been in such situations.... Usually when I have dated women with kids, after you are done with her you are done with the kids as well.... The way you talk about 50/50 is weird you are not the dad...

 

[Chase]

@captaincactus,

Difficult situation.

This is why in male corners of the Internet we tell guys over and over “DO NOT DATE SINGLE MOTHERS.”

The problem is your own emotions. Once you live with kids, bond to them, etc., especially if it is for 6 YEARS, you are going to feel like Dad to them, and they are going to feel like your own kids.

What responsibility does a man have to kids that are not his own, but who he has allowed to imprint him as a father figure? I don’t know. It’s an impossible question to answer. It’s a responsibility you took on, knowingly or unknowingly, or let yourself get roped into by dating and living with a single mother.

A few things to realize:

• Obviously you care about the kids and they care about you.
• The kids are not biologically yours.
• You never married the mother.
• You never adopted the kids.
• The state is not going to back you in any way with these kids.
• The mother is going to use them as a tool for leverage against you.
• You also mention you RESENT the kids… without mentioning why (but we can perhaps guess).

I don’t know what you want for your own life. Do you want your own biological children with a woman of your choosing? It’s going to be harder to do while also raising the children of another man. Or does that not matter to you, and you are okay in that role? People are different.

Another thing to keep in mind is that no matter how children are raised, and while they can be much more impressionable when young, they regress toward their biological mean as they age, and become increasingly like their (biological) parents in their teenage years and even more once grown. They may not grow up to be EXACTLY the same… if the parents are messed up due to a messed up upbringing, perhaps some of that can be avoided. But these kids are going to end up being a lot more like their biological parents, and a lot less like you, than you might think. Particularly as they age.

The best advice is to get out of the situation, get some space, and clear your head.

If the children are in an actually ABUSIVE situation, contact Child Protective Services.

If it’s really bad, and you are certain you want to be Dad to them, and they want to be your kids, maybe talk to a lawyer who handles custody issues in your state and see if there are any options there. I wouldn’t get my hopes up though (considering those bullets above).

You might find once you get some time away from the situation that you’re glad you’re not stuck parenting the kids of this woman and their sire, even if you feel sad about it. Or you might find you’d like to continue to maintain some relationship with them.

Maybe you can leave the kids your contact info and let them know you’re always willing to lend an ear, or happy to spend time with them when they can see you. Go to their sports matches or school plays or music recitals or what have you. Just because you aren’t living with them doesn’t mean you need to cut them completely off.

But yeah man, you need to hit the offramp from that whole scenario and spend some time getting your mind right.

Take @Skills’s recommendation and read No More Mr. Nice Guy. You need it. There is a good reason it has 13,000 Amazon reviews, most of them glowing.

Amazon.com

Chase

 

[captaincactus]

Lol @captaincactus look at it this way..

Right now you're a warn out out caretaker over the empire of an absent and neglectful heir. The fields fallowed, the cattle sickly and starved, despite your best efforts.. You yourself grow sicker by the day. The heir himself has no intent of returning to his wasteland and yet you toil and tend to barren ground for no wage, save some thin moral idea that it is the right thing to do. You'll receive no reward at the end of this. Even god doesn't pity fools...

Go build your own empire King. None of this belongs to you.

Love this

 

[POB]

As a guy who has dated and still dates single moms, there's a maxim I never go away from:
- single moms are automatic FBs...low tier MLTRs tops

Never met any of their kids, nor I intend too.

@captaincactus , go seek professional help
I would definitely start some form of therapy
Your heart and mind are in the wrong place right now
This forum can only help you to a certain point (and with small aspects of your problem)

 

[Skills]

As a guy who has dated and still dates single moms, there's a maxim I never go away from:
- single moms are automatic FBs...low tier MLTRs tops

Never met any of their kids, nor I intend too.

@captaincactus , go seek professional help
I would definitely start some form of therapy
Your heart and mind are in the wrong place right now
This forum can only help you to a certain point (and with small aspects of your problem)

i don't think he is at the level of professional help.... He is just going through the post hurt break up blues....

 

[POB]

i don't think he is at the level of professional help.... He is just going through the post hurt break up blues....

I think it is more than that..
He raised other guy's children for 6 years and is getting emotionally blackmailed by their crazy biological mom.

Since we split up I have carried on living with the ex and the children in an attempt to wait for the right time to leave, to phase out of this routine and into another, with the minimum amount of harm to the children as possible. We have been trying a 50/50 arrangement with the kids. This situation has now become unbearable, Im fucking miserable, Im not myself, the ex makes my toes curl, Im short with the kids, the ex pushes me into a corner whenever I try to raise something, she is a control freak, she is clever, and is impossible to work with unless its on her terms.

He needs all the pro help he can get (maybe even from a family lawyer).

 

[HoofHearted]

He needs all the pro help he can get (maybe even from a family lawyer).

This is the right take and maybe the most reasonable voice in the thread, although I don't see the legal implications yet... but not outside the realm of possibility.

Clearly OP is in a state of confusion and distress. But beyond that, an external resource could potentially help in other ways, beyond the OP himself, such as... if he is destined to detatch from these children, maybe professional help could guide him to understand how to do that in least destructive way possible (given the circumstances). Maybe he could acquire a skill/tool/new perspective for communicating with the former partner as he departs. Too much here to conjecture.

Point being, help isn't always just for us, sometimes it is also for the people around us. An internet ready, self-centric view of every fuckin situation closes the door on this idea by default.

 

[POB]

But beyond that, an external resource could potentially help in other ways, beyond the OP himself, such as... if he is destined to detatch from these children, maybe professional help could guide him to understand how to do that in least destructive way possible (given the circumstances). Maybe he could acquire a skill/tool/new perspective for communicating with the former partner as he departs.

Exactly my thoughts
This is not about the relationship
It's about breaking up a family for good