FR+ reserved girl

[girlsfollow]

so there is a very sweet girl I'm seeing, this one is actually reserved I think - she still lives with her parents and has had 3 boyfriends and has never broken the law or even tried anything illegal, she's quite professional with her job and seems she likes to plan - not the risk taking type (rather than the last one I posted just seeming that way at first) last time she wanted to meet during the day and I did - she was very warm and practically lying on me by the end in the bar - I didn't kiss her - wanted to keep tension and then did push for a little peck after a short walk but the tension was not there and she wasn't as receptive as she would have been in the bar - I brushed it off not much harm done.

Anyway been texting it'll be two weeks on sunday - meeting tomorrow - I suggested tomorrow and she has suggested in the afternoon again. I dont want to push too much for eve because she wanted to leave last time and I pushed for her to stay and she had to make up an excuse to leave I think..... SO should I just go on a day date with her? I wanted to go to a comedy show and then to my place but its probably too late for her and she isn't comfortable with that yet..... Market during the day as second date? - Very easy going with the flow.......

Or a slight alteration (my pref) is going to the market late 5-6 (only an hour) then eating and going to the comedy afterwards....

I can see this as being a wait till 3rd date thing - is that the end of the world (I don't mind - but chase would you think its a problem?)

 

[girlsfollow]

Re: FR+ reserved girl

I realised that she prob had plans in the evening (she did) went with the flow and met her (since I hadnt seen her in almost 2 weeks _ i've been pretty busy and was taking it easy - I now realise I shouldn't have let it run to two weeks and pushed for a sooner second date) -

I met her at the market she was already waiting - From now on I plan to try and get there 15mins early. after market I had planned two places but they turned out to have changed -I should have stuck with them anyway). We found somewhere to eatI held quite a bit of eye contact - no option to sit side by side.

at the end I gave her a platonic kiss on the cheek (i'd been holding out and not giving her a kiss to keep tension up) and gave her good eye contact and stayed close - she kissed me on the lips it could be some sign of submission - it was short but it was initiated by her which is probably good. I really regret not being a little less platonic though - I should have hugged her for longer and smelt her neck and maybe kissed her neck and I should have maybe pulled her to one side against a wall during the walking and kissed her then I think I could have - but would it have killed tension?????. I was right in thinking that daytime dates - unless the evening is free - are a mistake unless kept SHORT - I'd say MAX 2 hours pref 1.5 - must be doing something fun.

I offered to go and see freworks+comedy today, I made the mistake of not calling this off before she got back to me because I went to work in the morning. her text "I cant meet today but lets go to the comedy show soon - send me details" - suggests she is up for doing something else and does hint at eagerness.

My plan is to try avoid the comedy unless she has the next day off- IDEALLY I am going to suggest she comes around after work (I live close by) to cook dinner with me - but I worry thats too high expectation - so I might weaken it to coming over to try the hot chocolate we bought and then just suggesting it spontaneously. - thoughts? two options:

1. wait till hot chocolate is ready, show her around house and kiss her in my room literally within 10mins - but even typing that up I realise I somehow haven't set that as the natural flow of things and it will be during the day and she'll be in work mode maybe

2. Wait to cook dinner with her have some wine then do the same.

 

[girlsfollow]

Re: FR+ reserved girl

basically SUMMARY

had two dates with very cute girl, she seems very reserved and keeps things slow - I haven't been escalating kino enough (this is the first time in a year I've had the problem of getting close to the friend zone) -she wants to meet again........ should I have her come to my place on way home from work? - but she'll be in work mode and its during the day and empty - she might be on edge "WORK MODE", no alcohol, or meet her sat night for a comedy show (but will involve difficult pull to my place at end in opposite direction to her place)...

 

[Chase]

GF-

I can see this as being a wait till 3rd date thing - is that the end of the world (I don't mind - but chase would you think its a problem?)

It isn't the end of the world, so long as YOU stay in charge of determining when the dates end.

I had a conservative girlfriend in 2010 that I took on a social outing with some other friends as our first "date," and then took on three real dates after that - our first date was planned as a cafe near my apartment per my standard fare so I could quickly take her upstairs later, but she didn't know the location and went to somewhere far away and called me up frazzled and confused, so I went there to meet her. I didn't want our next date to be the same location as the first date she didn't make, so I had us go to dinner again, and then had her come directly to my place to cook dinner for the third date, where she was so nervous that she was trembling once I started escalating with her, but she got into it very quickly.

Dinner is the best idea for escalating to sex - it gives you more time to get her comfortable in if she's conservative, and it gets around the contrived logistics of something like trying to guide her around the house when she's only there for hot chocolate and trying to make it somehow happen then. Give her time to relax, put her feet down, and realize that she'll be there for a while.

Chase

 

[girlsfollow]

GF-

I can see this as being a wait till 3rd date thing - is that the end of the world (I don't mind - but chase would you think its a problem?)

It isn't the end of the world, so long as YOU stay in charge of determining when the dates end.

Chase

Thanks for your input chase, but how do you keep the power of determining when the dates end when you are also trying to keep her out using ego depletion etc? How can you simultaneously PULL by saying she should stay cause there is no reason not to but also PUSH and say she should go? Isnt this the problem with persistence - that it gives her power....

Good to hear the dinner worked at getting her comfortable. I went on my third date with her to see a comedy show, got very comfortable with her - had my arm all the way around her and was feeling her neck and had her giving me a hand massage and I was gently stroking her lower arms, also had fingers intertwined - it was quite intimate, this is where I realise she can't be THAT conservative with 3 past boyfriends aswell (although at 25 that many lovers might be considered low). I think might be a mistake to get so comfy and coupley and intimate here?

I think its partly her frame that is super hard to break, she is just acting quite stiff - I'll do a manhandle kiss on her and she will give in to it but will just not be passionate in returning it, she'll just gently kiss me back on the lips - she doesn't do the whole grabbing my hair and moaning/opening her mouth for tongue that more sexual girls do - its all a little stiff - like it needs some oil!?

So I got her back to my place (I was 100% focused on getting the close this time - been thinking enough is enough - DO NOT want to be put in the friend zone) but she had been hungry and needed to grab some food so was eating at first at my place. Got her up to my room and relaxed started smoking shisha, I sit close to her and kiss her - then push her back down onto her back - keep gently biting her neck and chin and gently kiss her neck while smelling her - I start feeling her non-intimate areas then feel her breasts through her top, her top is impossible to pull down so I pull it out of her trousers - REALLY tight trousers so its tough - anyway I pull it up so I can get some stomach to stomach skin contact going..... Shes still stiff you must have had that feeling of a girl just acting like a log before right? I think she might have been responding but shes hiding it well...I kiss her stomach and then she seems to get uncomfortable (not embarrassment since she has a perfect stomach - thats just her threshold) and says that she should be going soon... I joke a little about her piercing to relieve uncomfortableness (first time I saw it) - maybe this is where I let the tension go too much- I let us talk a little bit.

Anyway I just ignore the comment and let her sit up and keep doing shisha - to just get out of the whole her telling me to stop headspace - I back off. She starts coughing - wait till that gets better but she seems to have a bad cough. I then go in again but when I start getting to her threshold she says she needs to go to get the last tube - I say its a shame because we are so relaxed and we might not get a chance to relax like this again - I say "life intervenes" she says "next week.... I always follow through on what I intend to do I will keep it free!" So I say ok no problem, wait a little, talk about something else and say I'll take her to the station. - Analysis on what I could have improved...... NEXT TIME what should I do differently - just try and do the same thing - turn her on more (just more of the same?) and not give up?

I anticipate a problem - her jeans are SUPER tight - I would never have been able to slip a hand in the back (especially while she's lying on it) to finger her - how do I get over this major roadblock - I was seriously thinking about telling her to wear a dress or skirt!

So I left it from saturday till today wednesday to text her - asked her if she kept wknd free - she says she has sunday........................

I'm thinking now I will organise dinner - any idea how best to suggest it?

 

[girlsfollow]

Hmm so I suggested having dinner and I dont have a good feeling about her response (none back yet) - I think she knows its decision time and its maybe scared her off - how should I handle it if she doesn't agree to tomorrow? Plan to just say I'm busy anyway in the most neutral way.

I've realised that whenever you have a chance to meet a girl even if its at a bad time (ie she only wants to meet at 11in the morning for lunch on a workday or just before shes going out with friends) or if you feel like you could make it more natural to ask if you built a little more comfort - ITS NOT WORTH WAITING - always ask as soon as the opportunity arises!

If I had done this she would have agreed on wednesday and she wouldnt be thinking about it now......there is never a "perfect" moment to ask - apart from as soon as the opportunity arises - MOVE FAST

 

[girlsfollow]

Nope - she is coming over.....wants me to cook for her though.....

 

[Tyme2k]

Do it! Except put a condition on it, I'll get the food, but we are cooking it together. If I were you I would go for some sort of comfort food, that's easy for you to cook and reminds you of old family dinners or something. I have a few meals in my aresenal like this and it gives you some stuff to mention and get her investing. This way she can feel like she's getting to know you and an important part of your life. Take it slow, deep dive, give her jobs to do. Run that kitchen like an alpha, do you think women find Gordon Ramsey in the kitchen attractive? Fuck yeah they do! Don't be as over the top as him, but hopefully you get what I'm saying.

This is my favorite type of date and I will have one next week. Text messages and journal up soon

 

[girlsfollow]

Do it! Except put a condition on it, I'll get the food, but we are cooking it together. If I were you I would go for some sort of comfort food, that's easy for you to cook and reminds you of old family dinners or something. I have a few meals in my aresenal like this and it gives you some stuff to mention and get her investing. This way she can feel like she's getting to know you and an important part of your life. Take it slow, deep dive, give her jobs to do. Run that kitchen like an alpha, do you think women find Gordon Ramsey in the kitchen attractive? Fuck yeah they do! Don't be as over the top as him, but hopefully you get what I'm saying.

This is my favorite type of date and I will have one next week. Text messages and journal up soon

Yep - I said we'd do it together

She arrived and told me she wasnt hungry! - So watched a film and initiated make out - then after 3rd time took my top off (that helped - I think she got a kick out of that), took her top off and escalated to fingering, and she was very very wet (like wet bed wet) despite not showing any signs of really being turned on before! - I think she may have cum (it was really quite quick - maybe 2-4 mins! - so I didnt really have a chance to get myself ready and she wasn't helping me at all) and after that she switched to being rational again.....put her trousers on and "lets have some food now" I tried to re-initiate but she was resistant.... We cooked and then she had to leave since she had work next morning - I think it sould happen next week - I'll just be wearing something looser so I can get ready quicker and wont let her get her release so easily this time!

 

[girlsfollow]

one thing I just noticed was that she is quite dominant - she tries to take control frequently - she's trying to grab back dominance from me I can feel it - classic girls trick - she's trying to use sex to do so- I need to be really careful not to let her do this - any tips?


one strategy she uses is to say we will do something before I get a chance to say it - its very subtle but she's managed to pull it off about 20% of the time - I think I'm going to keep not taking her seriously and then just escalate and finish it next time - I'm going to keep talk to a minimum - just close

another thing she got in first was "I dont like to rush things" - classic, should have seen that one coming - any advice for these strong willed dominant career driven girls?


One other thing I noticed was I slipped up on one of my central tenants a few times- "never answer a girl directly unless its with a NO" I answered a few of her questions with straight answers I shouldn't have - better to make her work for it and keep some mystery...

 

[girlsfollow]

Worked it mostly out - now what....

from reading chases post I realise that she is mostly an "The Uncomfortable Girl: "This Might Be Too Soon..."": gets stiff body language - exactly right!

but rather than blurt out the reason (although she did say "I like to take things slow" which I agreed with and didn't acknowledge further) after she came from fingering she moved into: The Annoyed Girl: You're Not Following Her Plan

Probably because she has many options and I was maybe persisting with not quite enough pauses and didn't handle her objections quite well enough....
she attempted the power voice: "No, Steeeve... lets go to eat" - this is what I was referring to with the dominance attempts above

I laughed and told her I thought it was cute.

she's coming my place on sat - intend to be aggressive literally pick her up and carry her to bed when she gets to my place....