russian asks: why 90% of the girls in western PUA videos are so unattractive?

[nad_bigger]

Chubby/Actually fucking fat (Cellulite on 19 yo legs is the best cellulite)
No makeup/Bad hair/Shitty clothes
Plain faces/Mediocre faces/Straight up unattractive faces
You get the idea.

And coaches are smiling, coaches are approaching, coaches are flirting... What is wrong with you? Have you not seen a feminine woman in your life?
I can't watch that for education, bc I wouldn't approach that piece of US feminism in my lifetime.

Fly to Moscow, be at Moscow State University (55.702155, 37.529234) at 12:40 am local time (lunchbreak).
95% are slim
60% are cute
30% are hot
10% are Victoria's fucking secret level of hot
100% lose the desire to approach in western countries.

P.S.
Not applicable to latin america or eastern europe.

 

[jakesykes949]

Re: russian asks: why 90% of the girls in western PUA videos are so unattractive

Because the West has been infected with social justice warriors and feminism, which have trained women to be masculine and gross.

This is the black pill meaning, my friend. Swallowing the black pill can be difficult, but it is necessary.

Most girls in the US (where I'm based out of) have been brainwashed from birth to be feminine and fat, and yet to have an entitlement complex.

I'm not complaining, either. You can still get great results here, if you're willing to try and work for it.

Here's an analogy, for example. If your game is a 7, you'll get a 5 in the US. If your game is a 7, you'll get a 10 in Russia.

Make sense?

 

[nad_bigger]

Re: russian asks: why 90% of the girls in western PUA videos are so unattractive

well, fuck me, I thought you are gonna deny this, I mean, I have never been in the US or UK, what do I know

 

[ThePhoenix]

Re: russian asks: why 90% of the girls in western PUA videos are so unattractive

 
FWIW, just to put all this into perspective, I donʼt even find the vast majority of white girls attractive, even most of the ones generally considered “hot”. (And Iʼm white, lol.) So, my dick is half‑asleep here in the West but itʼd still be hibernating in Russia, too! Iʼm probably going to move to Africa.

As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder!!!

Cheers,
Phoenix

p.s., I canʼt stand makeup and shit. Lots of girls here use so much makeup, lipstick, eyeliner, fake eyelashes, fake nails, fake hair. I for one wish theyʼd pay less attention to their looks, LOL!

 

[Chase]

Re: russian asks: why 90% of the girls in western PUA videos are so unattractive

Men (and women) adapt to their environments.

The women you see in Western PUA videos are what many/most of the women look like in the West. Guys have come up in it and are used to it. You do not even realize it until you spend substantial time outside the West.

There's a nice bonus effect of going from outside the West to back into the West, where your standards are much higher but you also feel much more entitled to significantly more attractive girls. It gives your behavior a boost and makes it easier to hit it off with very attractive women -- because you are just used to them and expect them. Unfortunately, because they're in such lower abundance (compared to elsewhere in the world), you are usually going to eventually settle back into Western standards if you remain in the West for too long a stretch at any one time.

People in general do not take care of themselves as well in the West. There's a subset of fit people who are in the gym all the time. But it takes a great deal of work ordinarily to not be overweight. Then once you are overweight, you tend to care a lot less about other aspects of your appearance -- because what's the point? You're already fat. Might as well be comfortable.

This leads to a cascade effect also. Because even if you're not fat... well, there's not a lot of pressure on you to look extra nice now, is there? After all, you're not fat! You are one of a very few. You can dress casual -- people are still going to find you uncommonly attractive, simply by virtue of not having a spare tire around your midsection.

Then there's the market for facial looks. Because genuinely thin women are much rarer in the West than they are other parts of the world, men compromise: they prize body health over facial beauty. You can find many, many men in the West who beam with pride over thin girlfriends with plain or worse faces, because in their eyes these women are 10/10s. These are "compromise 10s": women with 10/10 bodies and 10/10 faces are so rare guys end up having to choose one or the other. Some guys go for pretty faces with chubby bodies; other guys go for thin bodies with busted faces. Girls with both pretty faces and great bodies are common outside the West, but much less so in the West.

This is more due to diet than anything. Food in the West is loaded with sugar and sugar replacements (like high fructose corn syrup). It's in everything -- it's in the bread, it's in the pizza crust, it's in peanut butter, it's everywhere. People live hectic lives and don't cook their meals anymore like they do elsewhere in the world; all the food comes out of a box or a jar. It's all processed stuff, loaded with junk that goes straight to their fat deposits. And women on average hold onto more fat than men. So the men get fat; the women, fatter.

Then you get that cascade effect where even the women who aren't fat have a lot less pressure on them to stay attractive (since so much of the competition is out of the running). So they don't work nearly as hard to be pleasing visually or otherwise.

When I first began to travel, I'd have this yoyo effect where I'd go abroad and be amazed at how slim the women were. Then I'd return to the U.S. and be apalled at how large "average" women were. Then you gradually get used to it again and start to see "average" as average. Women that would've been overweight to you overseas start to seem slim. You become a lot more forgiving to a few extra pounds -- you don't even notice it's there. If you're an American man, you hear "a few extra pounds" and picture an obese woman. If you're overseas and hear "a few extra pounds" you picture a woman most Americans would consider stick-thin. Whom to you would still need to get on a diet and start to exercise.

Western women in general are also not terribly feminine, when compared with women elsewhere in the world. It seems quite clear this is a recent development; if you watch old TV shows or movies (like the 1960s' Star Trek), you'll see plenty of very attractive women who have no problem juggling both strength and femininity. Modern Western women have doubled down on the strength, and abandoned the femininity. Again, because this is what's available in the dating market, men just get used to it.

The decline in how pleasing women in the West are is almost certainly a big part of what prompted the seduction movement in the first place. Sexual liberation was part of it, but another part was the relative decline in attractive women. The market changes forced men to compete harder to find acceptable mates.

Anyway. It is what it is.

The men usually won't be fully aware of it, because they are just in it all the time.

It is simply the matrix they live within.

When they walk up to women like that, if that is all they're used to, they will be smiling, they will be interested, they will flirt.

Those women will seem pretty good to them. It is just what they're used to.

Chase

 

[nad_bigger]

Re: russian asks: why 90% of the girls in western PUA videos are so unattractive

I thought I wrote a little offensive piece, that would probably get me banned for trolling, but instead I got a huge reply from the man himself, I love the internet and I love GC!

And just knowing that slim cute gym going russian college girls that I fuck would make the crown collection of a skilled PUA master in the US gives me a childish giggle. Hail Russia!!!

And when I become the PUA master, the quality I will get...

 

[ThePhoenix]

Re: russian asks: why 90% of the girls in western PUA videos are so unattractive

...plenty of very attractive women who have no problem juggling both strength and femininity.

Very good point. A woman can be both strong and feminine. (Thatʼs one of the things I like about many black women.  

Thereʼs a nice bonus effect of going from outside the West to back into the West, where your standards are much higher but you also feel much more entitled to significantly more attractive girls. It gives your behavior a boost and makes it easier to hit it off with very attractive women -- because you are just used to them and expect them. Unfortunately, because theyʼre in such lower abundance (compared to elsewhere in the world), you are usually going to eventually settle back into Western standards if you remain in the West for too long a stretch at any one time.

I wonder how this applies to my situation.

Though my locality isnʼt fraught with obesity, I have remained remarkably unadapted to my Western surroundings. Where most guys are happy with whatever is around them, I just close off.

My ideal women are South Sudanese — a type remarkably rare here! More generally I strongly prefer native Africans; those at least can be found here in some numbers, but still a fairly small minority. At least for practice I donʼt mind other types of black women or some mixtures, although I get more critical of flaws the farther you go from African. But once you get to not having any noticeable African admixture, in most cases I just donʼt find her attractive, and in the remaining cases sheʼs fallen into an “uncanny valley” where my Psyche violently rejects any residual attraction. The women who donʼt suffer such fate come from a tenth of the female population.

Iʼm in a large city, so the pool that leaves me with ought to still be sizable enough. But what Iʼve found happens in practice is that their relative scarcity has a severe interaction with approach anxiety. I can spend most of the day at a large mall and come out with only 1 or 2 approaches — not even necessarily numbers! Yet I will have spotted at least a couple dozen women Iʼd have been willing to approach, and probably many more.

Whatʼs truly mind blowing is the fact that Iʼve actually had sex with a cute black girl, no strings attached, from doing literally the same thing my brain still gets spooked out of doing! From experience thus far, Iʼd expect to get laid doing between 20 to 60 approaches. But here it takes forever to amass that many approaches!

My wanting to spend a while in Africa is based on reasoning that if the number of women Iʼd be willing to approach went up by ten times (because they're now drawn from the vast majority), then I should find I can get 10 to 20 approaches in a day instead of 1 or 2, even given the same level of approach anxiety. And that the AA just might even go down. At that frequency, getting laid would almost surely become a regular occurrence.

Now, my original assumption had been that my having limited positive data points was an enabler of approach anxiety, and that after a run of good seductions, I could come back here and brazenly approach my acceptable type so as to come out of the mall with 20 approaches instead of two.

But I have since started to suspect that itʼs more likely that indeed my numbers would go way up in Africa, but that coming back here, sooner or later, theyʼd go back down as my brain would “dial back in” to the local scarcity. Your last remark here seems to support that notion.

That certainly doesnʼt dissuade me from going. But it makes me have to further consider the notion that coming back might not be such a good idea......

Phoenix

 

[nad_bigger]

Re: russian asks: why 90% of the girls in western PUA videos are so unattractive

well, the abundance of material to approach to is a cornerstone of any PUA training.
When I went from Omsk (1.4 mil) to Moscow (at least 20 mil), the difference was fucking insane.

I'll move there permanently within 5 month, and you should consider moving to Africa.
(my option sounds so much more appealing though...)

 

[Jakeroviks]

Re: russian asks: why 90% of the girls in western PUA videos are so unattractive

As a guy who recently moved from Europe to the US, I can vouch for this.

An average girl that I could easily get in EE is considered hot over here.

The main thing for though isn't even physical looks - there are hot American girls - It's the attitudes. In EE it was normal for women to be sweet and feminine, but in the US they're often just rude.

The combination of femininity and beauty makes EE women sexy. In the US they combine masculinity and looks, which is basically a man with a vagina.

 

[Space]

Re: russian asks: why 90% of the girls in western PUA videos are so unattractive

Chase-

(Thanks for your answer in the other thread! But I have to schedule answering that one for later, as it takes substantially longer than this quickie, including writing multiple posts. That is life on a forum about complex topics on an otherwise complicated site with not so many users around.)

People in general do not take care of themselves as well in the West. There's a subset of fit people who are in the gym all the time. But it takes a great deal of work ordinarily to not be overweight. Then once you are overweight, you tend to care a lot less about other aspects of your appearance -- because what's the point? You're already fat. Might as well be comfortable.

Do you suggest the elixir for good looks is first and foremost, going to the gym? First, 'gym culture', or equating physical exercise with going to the gym is a US thing, isn't it? Second, the common wisdom tells me that looking good, or at least, not so bad is mostly about diet, exercise taking the second place. If we apply my favorite Pareto principle to the issue.

This is more due to diet than anything. Food in the West is loaded with sugar and sugar replacements (like high fructose corn syrup). It's in everything -- it's in the bread, it's in the pizza crust, it's in peanut butter, it's everywhere. People live hectic lives and don't cook their meals anymore like they do elsewhere in the world; all the food comes out of a box or a jar. It's all processed stuff, loaded with junk that goes straight to their fat deposits. And women on average hold onto more fat than men. So the men get fat; the women, fatter.

By the West, do you mean the US? In Europe we don't have so much high fructose corn syrup as you guys over there. Maybe because our agriculture doesn't focus as much on corn. There was a Michael Moore documentary about HFCS.

After all, maybe you want to say it's mostly diet, less so about exercise? We are at it. This is just a hypothesis, but I think the average people for average prices in an average supermarket can buy somewhat healthier (or less unhealthy) foods in Europe than in the US. Not talking about hing end chains, like Whole Foods. Then whether you put the processed on unprocessed foods into your shopping bag depends on your local culture, and your individual circumstances such as your busy life.

Western women in general are also not terribly feminine, when compared with women elsewhere in the world. It seems quite clear this is a recent development; if you watch old TV shows or movies (like the 1960s' Star Trek), you'll see plenty of very attractive women who have no problem juggling both strength and femininity. Modern Western women have doubled down on the strength, and abandoned the femininity. Again, because this is what's available in the dating market, men just get used to it.

Do you mean the subject of masculine men, feminine women, masculine women, feminine men as discussed by David Deida and Jordan Peterson? Which is a very interesting topic in and of itself probably worthy a separate discussion some time (first, you may want to increase the number of forum members, right?)), I've written about it here; the first two paragraphs.

 

[Space]

Re: russian asks: why 90% of the girls in western PUA videos are so unattractive

Fly to Moscow, be at Moscow State University (55.702155, 37.529234) at 12:40 am local time (lunchbreak).

Pro tip to your government: As oil prices seem to be low for the foreseeable future, you guys may appreciate some tourism dollars (and euros) and want to ease the visa regime for Westerners so they can have a better first hand experience of your culture, not just as portrayed by the media as the 'evil empire'. Sounds like a win-win to me.

Or who knows? Maybe this 'evil empire' thing is mutual, it's in the Russian interest as well to similarly portray the US as the 'evil empire'. Even though Trump and Putin should be closer on the political map than Obama and Putin was. The 'evil empire' thing may come mutually handy for the higher political spheres on both sides. After all, who wants more travel between Russia and the West, and more cultural understanding? Pondering the question from the perspective of governments. But this may be a little off.

And just knowing that slim cute gym going russian college girls

Slim? Yes. Cute? Yes. Feminine? For sure. But for speaking of the majority; gym going? According my information, to the most extent, not so. Sure, there's always a minority. It's more like lucky genes, and a healthier diet, isn't it? And maybe some form of exercise, bot not necessarily 'going to the gym, American style'. Please correct me if I'm wrong! But speaking of the diet, Russia isn't exactly a bread basket.

And coaches are smiling, coaches are approaching, coaches are flirting... What is wrong with you? Have you not seen a feminine woman in your life? I can't watch that for education, bc I wouldn't approach that piece of US feminism in my lifetime.

Speaking from my experience, however, you should be careful with your stereotypes. Maybe I've just read too much shit on the Internet about American women, which, by the way, more or less coincided with my own experience, until I've met a nice one in Europe. Sure, not Russian-style feminine, but more American style-feminine. Read, slutty. But in holiday mode (slutty) realizing she isn't that special either in this environment like back home. Basically I screwed up this one because coundn't get out of my head and of my stupid preconceptions. So just be careful with them! And because at that time I was a total beginner. Actually, what has happened that I was talking to these two American girls and two guys came over disregarding me with two drinks in their hands for the two girls. I was like, WTF?

A similar thing happened another time, I was talking these two girls and one guy came over with two drinks to the two girls, so overall, that was better for ratios.

 

[Space]

Re: russian asks: why 90% of the girls in western PUA videos are so unattractive

My ideal women are South Sudanese — a type remarkably rare here!

With such a peculiar taste, you may be interested in trying NoFap and/or cold showers, if you haven't done so yet. Both are equally dangerous. Sure, we all have standards, we should have some standards, but these may help to broaden your scope.

 

[ThePhoenix]

Re: russian asks: why 90% of the girls in western PUA videos are so unattractive

When I went from Omsk (1.4 mil) to Moscow (at least 20 mil), the difference was fucking insane.

Iʼll move there permanently within 5 month, and you should consider moving to Africa.

Thank you, that definitely confirms my suspicions!

Now, if there was ever some practical benefit in your moving back to Omsk, what do you think would happen? If you had gotten good in Moscow, do you feel that you could take that back to Omsk and remain good there indefinitely, or do you think that a similar thing Chase mentions would happen, where over time youʼd readjust to Omsk and lose the benefit?

____________________

With such a peculiar taste...

Hahaha, Iʼve certainly never been mundane!

I hypothesize itʼs probably a perfectly natural drive.

In physical terms, those women are remarkably different from me on multiple parameters. Theyʼve got about the darkest skin tone you can find on the planet; Iʼm not the lightest, but Iʼm well within the lighter half of whatʼs broadly called “white”. They tend to be rather tall — average woman is 5ʼ11” or 180cm, — whereas while Iʼm not straight up short, Iʼm shorter than many men and theyʼre a few inches taller than me, and a good bit taller than women of my background. And of course they have Type 4 hair while mine is Type 1. Some of them, particularly from the Nuer tribe, have a very soft, fluid facial structure that is in stark contrast to my angular features and which I find hypnotically beautiful! Our facial axis are pretty much opposite in terms of which are long and short axes.

The interesting thing is, I liked the basic tall, dark, and soft face parameters far before I knew what South Sudanese looked like. So the first time I saw one it was like, “holy, fuck, where is she from?! I need me one of those!!” Physical features are a proxy for genetic relatedness, and genetic dissimilarity may confer fitness benefits for much the same reason as inbreeding degrades fitness. A highly exotic mate may also carry adaptive alleles that are missing from the entire local population, in which case pulling those alleles into the population could later prove critical where the local population had been naïve to an environmental challenge which the exotic inividual is adapted for, if it later faces that challenge.

The only part I donʼt understand is why you donʼt see everyone having extremely exogamous preferences. That could be due to social expectations, prejudice, or even just to an opposing drive that tends to imprint on opposite‑sex family members — since there are also some adaptive benefits to genetic similarity. (One example that comes to mind being a black & white patched hare that cannot camouflage against either light or dark rocks, or even more extremely, cross-species matings, which generally produce no offspring at all.) Thereʼs probably some balance between the outbreeding and inbreeding drives which may achieve a different equilibrium in different individuals. During development, I had much less exposure to prime‑age opposite‑sex family members than would be typical. I also had some formative experiences with African females.

...you may be interested in trying NoFap and/or cold showers, if you havenʼt done so yet.

LOL! Trust me, itʼs not that. (I donʼt even think I could find Nilotic porn if I wanted it!  LOL) Iʼm from before the “YourBrainOnPorn” generation. Most guys in the NoFap herd seem to be battling the infamous “PMO”. Well, that very first letter, “P”, is meaningless to me. I quite frankly have trouble understanding its appeal! I have literally not once in my life ever “PMOʼed”.

Yeah, Iʼll rub one out here and there (often restricting myself to only doing it as a reward for approaching women), but Iʼve gone weeks without it, and from that I can pretty confidently say that it doesnʼt influence my taste in women at all. If anything, abstinence just makes me want to fuck every black girl in sight and daydream about impregnating ones from the Upper Nile Valley.  lol.

The popular NoFap claim that your testosterone just keeps going up and up like a rocket into space is, from all I can tell, baloney. On the contrary, I actually bumped into something a NoFapper posted on Reddit, where he had done bloodwork before and after several months, and his testosterone had tanked! Thatʼs consistent with my own personal observation that sometimes going too long actually seems to kill my sex drive. Like the old “use it or lose it” adage. Iʼve also seen some plots of day‑by‑day testing of testosterone under abstinence, and while there is a noticeable spike that averages 7 days after the last ejaculation, it goes back down afterwards to either the same or slightly lower than baseline.

Sure, we all have standards, we should have some standards, but these may help to broaden your scope.

Donʼt get me wrong. I donʼt restrict myself to just women from the Upper Nile Valley; if I did, Iʼd be in trouble!! — well over a year of hitting on girls and Iʼve only ever met one so far, and have only even seen two in person. So, I do venture well outside my narrow ideal.

But at the same time thereʼs some limit to just how far outside it Iʼm willing to go. If I wanted my standards to be still broader than that, then Iʼd have to look into how to get myself to want the ones I donʼt really want — but since I donʼt really want them, I donʼt really want to want them, either. Sure, I want more girls to hit on, but my brain naturally maps that to “I want more of my type around me,” not “I want my concept of my type to better reflect whatʼs around me.” Iʼm staunchly individual, so when faced with a choice of either abandoning my individualistic preference or taking some extreme measure (like relocating) to protect it, Iʼll generally always take the latter. Itʼs a volitional thing.

Phoenix

 

[NiceGuy110]

Re: russian asks: why 90% of the girls in western PUA videos are so unattractive

Fly to Moscow, be at Moscow State University (55.702155, 37.529234) at 12:40 am local time (lunchbreak).
95% are slim
60% are cute
30% are hot
10% are Victoria's fucking secret level of hot
100% lose the desire to approach in western countries.

P.S.
Not applicable to latin america or eastern europe.

Question - do they speak English or do you have to learn Russian?

 

[nad_bigger]

Re: russian asks: why 90% of the girls in western PUA videos are so unattractive

учить язык надо естественно, хули ты думал вась.

(guess)

 

[ThePhoenix]

Re: russian asks: why 90% of the girls in western PUA videos are so unattractive

... хули ты думал вась

LMAO!!  XD

Well, in all fairness, among places where English isnʼt primary, people in some such places know more English than in others.

Question — do they speak English or do you have to learn Russian?

In my experience generally, at least trying to learn the local language goes a long way with people, even if you can get by without it. When I went to a Latin American country with a friend, I had a much easier time getting locals to open up than he did, just from trying out my rusty high school Spanish on them, whereas he knew none and didnʼt even try. When you at least try, they feel you appreciate their culture, which is important to them. Conversely, he knew a different foreign language that was native to a minority of the locals, and those particular locals he connected with much better than I did.

If you like Russian girls, learn Russian... should be a no‑brainer!  

Phoenix

p.s., Donʼt trust the Internet. Iʼve been to places where people on forums said, “donʼt worry, most people speak English”, and got there to find out that most people donʼt!  :O  :<  XD

 

[nad_bigger]

Re: russian asks: why 90% of the girls in western PUA videos are so unattractive

well, if you don't learn the language you will just freeze when she asks something like:
Чо блядь ты базаришь? нихуя не поняла..

 

[NiceGuy110]

Re: russian asks: why 90% of the girls in western PUA videos are so unattractive

The women you see in Western PUA videos are what many/most of the women look like in the West. Guys have come up in it and are used to it. You do not even realize it until you spend substantial time outside the West.

There's a nice bonus effect of going from outside the West to back into the West, where your standards are much higher but you also feel much more entitled to significantly more attractive girls. It gives your behavior a boost and makes it easier to hit it off with very attractive women -- because you are just used to them and expect them. Unfortunately, because they're in such lower abundance (compared to elsewhere in the world), you are usually going to eventually settle back into Western standards if you remain in the West for too long a stretch at any one time.

People in general do not take care of themselves as well in the West. There's a subset of fit people who are in the gym all the time. But it takes a great deal of work ordinarily to not be overweight. Then once you are overweight, you tend to care a lot less about other aspects of your appearance -- because what's the point? You're already fat. Might as well be comfortable.

This leads to a cascade effect also. Because even if you're not fat... well, there's not a lot of pressure on you to look extra nice now, is there? After all, you're not fat! You are one of a very few. You can dress casual -- people are still going to find you uncommonly attractive, simply by virtue of not having a spare tire around your midsection.

Then there's the market for facial looks. Because genuinely thin women are much rarer in the West than they are other parts of the world, men compromise: they prize body health over facial beauty. You can find many, many men in the West who beam with pride over thin girlfriends with plain or worse faces, because in their eyes these women are 10/10s. These are "compromise 10s": women with 10/10 bodies and 10/10 faces are so rare guys end up having to choose one or the other. Some guys go for pretty faces with chubby bodies; other guys go for thin bodies with busted faces. Girls with both pretty faces and great bodies are common outside the West, but much less so in the West.

This is more due to diet than anything. Food in the West is loaded with sugar and sugar replacements (like high fructose corn syrup). It's in everything -- it's in the bread, it's in the pizza crust, it's in peanut butter, it's everywhere. People live hectic lives and don't cook their meals anymore like they do elsewhere in the world; all the food comes out of a box or a jar. It's all processed stuff, loaded with junk that goes straight to their fat deposits. And women on average hold onto more fat than men. So the men get fat; the women, fatter.

Then you get that cascade effect where even the women who aren't fat have a lot less pressure on them to stay attractive (since so much of the competition is out of the running). So they don't work nearly as hard to be pleasing visually or otherwise.

When I first began to travel, I'd have this yoyo effect where I'd go abroad and be amazed at how slim the women were. Then I'd return to the U.S. and be apalled at how large "average" women were. Then you gradually get used to it again and start to see "average" as average. Women that would've been overweight to you overseas start to seem slim. You become a lot more forgiving to a few extra pounds -- you don't even notice it's there. If you're an American man, you hear "a few extra pounds" and picture an obese woman. If you're overseas and hear "a few extra pounds" you picture a woman most Americans would consider stick-thin. Whom to you would still need to get on a diet and start to exercise.

Western women in general are also not terribly feminine, when compared with women elsewhere in the world. It seems quite clear this is a recent development; if you watch old TV shows or movies (like the 1960s' Star Trek), you'll see plenty of very attractive women who have no problem juggling both strength and femininity. Modern Western women have doubled down on the strength, and abandoned the femininity. Again, because this is what's available in the dating market, men just get used to it.

The decline in how pleasing women in the West are is almost certainly a big part of what prompted the seduction movement in the first place. Sexual liberation was part of it, but another part was the relative decline in attractive women. The market changes forced men to compete harder to find acceptable mates.

Seeing as we're on a cynical note, doesn't all this make the argument for the existence of the pareto principle (80-20 rule) in dating stronger? As in, since women have become more masculine, that this means the guys at the top are even more spoiled for choice than before. And the guys lower down have it a little bit harder than before!?

 

[ray_zorse]

Re: russian asks: why 90% of the girls in western PUA videos are so unattractive

Good post by Chase, it fits my experience. I live in Australia and find most Australian women unattractive. It's a combination of the factors mentioned. So I moved to the downtown where the population is about 50% Asian (I discovered eventually that I live in Koreatown, although it's not really much of a thing as compared with Chinatown a few blocks away or Little Vietnam 5km to the west).

While there are a few non starters the women are in general slim with beautiful faces and more importantly, they maximize what they have -- a good haircut and maybe a tint, well fitting clothes, nicely selected accessories, bag and/or shoes, a fashion sense (will I be casual or more formal today and what outfit will work to get this effect), carefully applied eye makeup and some lippy, nails done, but NOT the fake effect mentioned by ThePhoenix.

When I see this it kind of takes my breath away, I suppose it is a shame that women always feel they are a work in progress, and it would be tough to be one, but it would also be satisfying to pull it off. Also, aside from just looks and grooming there is the attitude side of things. In hundreds of dates with Asian women I have found them on average to be more caring and solicitous, more feminine and less entitled, better at conversation, more giving in the sense of showing an interest and letting the other person shine a bit. I guess this is because they come from a culture(s) which (a) is more competitive as Chase mentioned, and (b) places more emphasis on traditionally female roles and qualities. When I have gone on dates with Western girls I have expected a lot more rough edges and usually this has been the fact.

Why I found Chase's explanation interesting is I have often found this preference of mine to be a curious thing. It may just be racial (racist if you prefer) or biological, as in I'm hard wired to prefer a certain look. But I do not really think so, because when I see the VERY occasional Aussie or European background girl with the 10 face and body and the maximizing of what she has... she also takes my breath away. There is a certain factor that if she is Asian she needs to be at least a 5 to turn my head where if she is Aussie she needs to be at least an 8, and this could be hard wired. Overall though, I think it's more that I value the qualities a lot that I also happen to associate with Asian girls.

The fact that I had some poor formative experiences with nasty, entitled Aussie girls in high school might also be a factor. In an effort to reverse this I was planning to some day commit to approaching and dating only European background girls for a while until I could overcome any possible prejudices, but events have rendered this unnecessary (Leticia and I will get married this Saturday in point of fact). I also have syccumbed a bit to the syndrome Chase mentioned of getting a bit overweight and then neglecting other aspects because why not, I'm already fat. Progress has been made on the other neglect and the weight will be attacked again shortly.

Ray

 

[Chase]

Re: russian asks: why 90% of the girls in western PUA videos are so unattractive

@NIceGuy-

Seeing as we're on a cynical note, doesn't all this make the argument for the existence of the pareto principle (80-20 rule) in dating stronger? As in, since women have become more masculine, that this means the guys at the top are even more spoiled for choice than before. And the guys lower down have it a little bit harder than before!?

Well, on the one hand, you can certainly get yourself plenty of lovers and girlfriends if you muscle your way to the top of the male ranks.

I see claims in the manosphere that this is now "better for alpha chads" than at any time in modern history. But I'm not sure I believe that.

If you talk to the old timers, there were plenty of guys who were very good with girls 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 40 years ago, and the more talented of these guys had no trouble bedding hundreds of women in their days either. And it sounds like higher lay counts in general were open to more men, but most didn't bother since they quickly found girls they wanted to keep around as girlfriends or marry.

If you come back to today, then ask yourself "If we make X% of modern women more manly, does that make it easier for you if you're a top guy?"

I guess the answer to that would be "Only if you like manly women", right?

There are other things that might help top guys today vs. several decades ago. Men today are significantly less masculine, with far lower testosterone levels than they had in the past. Homosexuality has exploded as a lifestyle choice, taking many men who would've been closeted gays in the past (or perhaps not gay at all) with girlfriends or wives completely out of the picture as competition for women in the first place. And a further huge chunk more men are going completely without women or sex in their lives altogether (28% of men ages 18-30 in 2018), further removing competitors from the sexual marketplace. All those things help elite men's chances.

I don't think more women being less pleasing is good for any guy, elite, average, or below average. But the sheer number of men who've dropped out of the game definitely is in men's favor... if it isn't offset or overtaken by the drop in women's mate value.

==

Anyway. I certainly don't want this to seem like a cynical post. I'm just trying to talk about it matter-of-factly.

There are still attractive women throughout the Western world (and yes, Space, that means North America, Western Europe, and AUSNZ).

They are just in shorter supply than they traditionally were in these locations in the past, and shorter supply than they are still in other parts of the globe today.


@Ray-

There is a certain factor that if she is Asian she needs to be at least a 5 to turn my head where if she is Aussie she needs to be at least an 8, and this could be hard wired.

It's an artifact of your tastes not being as honed for women with exotic looks.

If you're more familiar with European-descent women, you'll be more critical of their looks. A girl of another race (that you're open to dating) will not trigger as much critical review in you. You'll be too confused/intrigued by her exotic features.

The same applies with any woman with different-enough features. I've been watching the old Star Trek original series (from the 1960s) lately when I have a little downtime. I'm consistently impressed by both a.) what great bodies and b.) how beautiful overall many of the women are. On the bodies thing, what I've noticed is you get a lot of women with small waists but large breasts in Trek. Today what you usually see in the U.S. is if she retains enough fat to have large breasts, she will not be able to keep the fat off her waist, and will be overweight. Meanwhile if she's able to stay slim, she likely doesn't store fat easily and probably has small breasts. On the face thing though, I've noticed that while some of the actresses truly are just gorgeous (they had a fantastic casting director for Trek), they have such different (1960s) hairstyles that I think it's confusing my ability to read looks, the same way a woman being of a race other than one you grew up surrounded by will.

Chase