FR Saturday Night - To freebee or not to freebee?

[Chrance]

I started the night earlier than Friday, at 10:30PM. There were 8 sets I approached total. I will only go through four of them.

Set 1:
This was my second set of the night. It was a 2-set. I opened Girl A with, "Hey, I really like your top. It's very colorful." She responded with "thanks!", pretty positive. I turned to her friend, Girl B, and said, "Your top is good too, you know," in a joking manner as to appear like I intentionally didn't want to leave her out. Girl B laughed. I was able to smoothly transition into a good conversational flow, via talking more about Girl B's (who I liked more) style and about how sober I was (kind of a stupid thing to talk about but it didn't hurt lol). The bubbliness of Girl B made me talking and leading the conversation easier. Girl B started dancing with Girl A. "Do you know how to dance?" asked Girl B. "Not really," i initially said, but then immediately back tracked lmao and said, "Actually, no, it really depends on my mood." then I slowly took her hand, did a little spin and we started dancing together. Within 1 minute Girl A, the colorful one, told her "Hey, blahblahblah is outside waiting, we should meet them." Girl A then grabbed Girl B and took her away. I nodded goodbye and did not follow them.

Way later in the night, as the whole club turned into an approach-machine-shit-show I saw them again, but now they were with these two guys who they were waiting for. It was clear these guys met up and were trying to get with these chicks but were having a tough time. Seeing that there was hope, and noticing that girl B had taken off some of her clothes, I walked up (which I was a bit nervous to do since there's potential for these guys to cock block me) and said, "hey, where did your clothes go?" "It was getting so hot!" she said. We talked about one minute until Girl A pulled her away again. I shrugged, decided to let it be, and left. I did not return to this set.

Looking back at this set, I really wanted to fuck girl B. I should have gotten her number before she left the first time. Secondly, I should have been more persistent. I have a very difficult time with resistance. Like, I don't want to be a dick. More on this later. There's a lot I could have done here.

Set 2:
This was another two set. Both these girls looked a lot less bubbly and more blaze' than the first two. I opened with "Hey, I like your tiny watch." I went to show her my own, but I actually wasn't wearing it lmao. She said, "It's not tiny." I responded,"wtf sure it is." along with a few other words I couldn't remember. It may appear like she was combative, but in fact her face didn't look defensive. After about a minute she waved to her ear, signifying that she couldn't hear me. For some reason I decided to quit right then and there. Jesus Christ.

I really should have kept things going. I should have said the bare minimum like "Alright, so who are you?" and "And what brings you guys out here tonight?" This kind of situation has shown me that I have a tough time between the very open and the hook, where the conversation becomes stable.

Set 3:
This was a three set. I opened the girl of the three who was dancing very intensely with "Hey, I love your dance moves, they're pretty badass." And she responded with "Thanks!" and that was it, she just kept dancing really hard. In this moment I felt clueless. I saw her friend, who was more attractive, and began thinking of ways to open her. I wanted to open her with "I like your highlights, its like your head's on fire." but as I was thinking of that, two dudes swept in and took control of the three-set. I could tell though that these two guys really didn't have things in control that much, so I kept thinking of something good to say. As I did this, set 4 happened

Set 4:
I didn't open this set. This girl walked up to me and asked me what my name was. I told her a fake name. She than said, "Do you know X?" and I said, "No, I have no idea who that is. Who are you?" I could tell this girl was bullshitting and just wanted to talk to me. However, I did not like her face. She had a really hooked nose. Not my thing. But I wanted to give her chance since, frankly, I was in a desperate situation as well - not in set, no numbers, barely any dancing, no makeouts or leads, etc. I transitioned into talking about a variety of things such as where she went to school, what area of town she lived, what her porn star name would be, how good of a prostitute she would be (which she brought up), all sorts of stuff. Then she introduced me to her friends, who I said hey to and who gave the look of approval, and turned back away. Hook-nosed-girl and I were still standing by the three set I wanted to reopen, and I started to think of ways I could take advantage of the current situation to make myself look good in hopes of a solid open with the three-set, namely the main girl with the nice highlights who I wanted to open but who was still dancing in a half-baked manner with another guy.
Then, all of a sudden, hook-nosed-girl made an odd suggestion I had never gotten before from a girl approaching me. I told her I lived in Z part of town and described to her my place. She then said, "Okay. We should go back there later." and my brain lit up. "Damn, she wants to bang," I thought. I began to really assess her appearance to really ensure I was making the right choice. I simply could not get over her nose and face. I had never gotten this obvious invitation before. "Maybe," I said. Then I transitioned into a different subject to give myself more time to think. I still wanted the other girl, and I didn't want to bang this hook-nosed-girl at all. After about 10 more minutes I asked for her number lmao and the look on her face was priceless. As she handed my phone back to me, she said, "So you don't want to hangout for the rest of the night?"
"Maybe. I have to get up pretty early, so I'm not sure yet."
"Well if you can, then text me," and we parted.
I lingered in the club for a few short moments, gathering what the hell just happened, if I made the right choice, if I should approach the highlights girl, fuck fuck fuck! I still knew it was possible to approach highlights girl, but it was such a small club that I knew hook-nosed girl would see, and the potential jealousy that could arise from that bothered me.

It was about 20 minutes to bars closing, so I decided to call it quits and left.

General Thoughts and Solutions:
Now, like mentioned at the top, there were other sets I approached in the night, but I cannot remember them as clearly as the above four. I'm working on writing my FR's as soon as I get back from the club so that my memory is fresh.

That volatile chasm between the open and where the conversation becomes stable is something I need to learn to persist through. It actually freaks me out a little. I think this is common with most guys. Specifically when the girls respond like a block of wood. I know that its necessary to have a routine or topic here, but I seem to have a tough time actually recalling a routine or topic in the moment, especially one that is relevant to the circumstance. I have some topics and routines in mind but I just can't get myself to say them. It just never seems right for some reason. This chasm is I think my biggest sticking point. "Making the hoe say no" is also a sticking point. I really don't like making people feel uncomfortable.

After a day thinking about it, not pulling hook-nosed-girl was the right thing to do. I've already slept with a girl I didn't like at all this year and don't want to repeat that experience. When I returned home though I felt some inner conflict because it is in fact my goal to raise my notch count.

What do you guys think? Would you have taken a freebee if it was with a woman you didn't really like at all?

Also, what is your solution to the gap between the open and stable conversation? Do you prefer to wing it, or use a memorized routine, etc.? I know this topic has been done a thousand times over but hey, why not add more to the pile lol.

 

[Velasco]

I really should have kept things going. I should have said the bare minimum like "Alright, so who are you?" and "And what brings you guys out here tonight?" This kind of situation has shown me that I have a tough time between the very open and the hook, where the conversation becomes stable.

That volatile chasm between the open and where the conversation becomes stable is something I need to learn to persist through. It actually freaks me out a little. I think this is common with most guys. Specifically when the girls respond like a block of wood. I know that its necessary to have a routine or topic here, but I seem to have a tough time actually recalling a routine or topic in the moment, especially one that is relevant to the circumstance. I have some topics and routines in mind but I just can't get myself to say them. It just never seems right for some reason. This chasm is I think my biggest sticking point.

Prehook is not the time for routines imo. Thats for after she's hooked.

I've shared my pre-hook structure in greenleaf's transitioning after the open" post, which I'll repost here

Hover
Situational spike opener
Spike based off her answer
Question to get in return (nationality. age.)
Spike
Isolate

Let's look at your openers here:

"Hey, I really like your top. It's very colorful"
"Hey, I like your tiny watch."
"Hey, I love your dance moves, they're pretty badass."

So these are observational openers. Where you comment/compliment her on something she's doing/wearing/ Which aren't bad in themselves (cause hey....you opened! props...lol). but as you can see, these kind of openers mostly get you "thanks bro" responds. which leaves you scrambling to find another question to ask her. Effectively throwing away a golden opportunity to really hook her in right away. Rather than having her wonder, "hmmm do I want to keep answering this guy's questions?" (if she's a YES, she just might...but a MAYBE...ehh).

Situational spike openers is where you spike her emotions (tease/cold-read/self amuse) based on what she's doing/wearing. So that it wouldn't make sense for her to reply to them with, "thanks" (unless she's a NO). She'd have to respond to your spike (or shit test you like set#2). And then from that response, you spike again (or pass her shit test...if your brain was thinking spike her "its not tiny" response...maybe you'd accuse her of obviously stealing it from a random little girl/her sister's cabinet or make tiny penis joke (I'm not sure what's that called...where someone says a word and then you respond with the first thing that comes to mind when you hear that word...words of association?). Now that you've got her full attention from the double spike, is where you'll want to ask her the classic pre-hook questions to get her to invest in you. What's her nationality (or cold read her nationality), how old she is (there are more but these are my 2 favorites) then spike THAT answer (does she speak the language? she's too old/young for you...you don't believe that she's actually X age/fake ID...etc). Here is when she'll start asking you questions in return. And its at this moment in the interaction, where you'll want to throw out a question (doesn't have to be relevant at all to the superficial nonsense conversation you guys have been engaged in thus far), which serves as your transition into your first routine.

Here's what should be going through your head before and after opening a girl you're interested in,

ok that girl over there looks good -> what is she doing/wearing that I can comment on -> what's the first thing that comes to mind that's funny about what's she's doing/wearing -> open -> spike whatever she said to me -> cold read her nationality based on her accent/face/dress -> spike whatever she said to me -> how old are you -> spike whatever she said to me -> make her guess for my nationality/age -> transitional question into my first routine.

 

[h8tehh8ers]

Velasco, I really like some of your posts. I am just starting to learn verbal game myself and the info your posting is very helpful for me.

Do you have a compiled document with all the routines that you run for every type of frame you want to set in the interaction? I want to have a routine memorized for each kind of frame that I wanted to set in the interaction. I really feel like learning a bunch of routines will really help free up some "mental ram" when I am in my sets.

 

[Eternity]

@Chrance How do you dress going out? Sharp or a low maintenance look? Nightlife is about looking sharp and stylish, you get more warmer reactions from women in my experience but it differs by individual.

 

[Chrance]

Prehook is not the time for routines imo. Thats for after she's hooked.

I've shared my pre-hook structure in greenleaf's transitioning after the open" post, which I'll repost here



Let's look at your openers here:

"Hey, I really like your top. It's very colorful"
"Hey, I like your tiny watch."
"Hey, I love your dance moves, they're pretty badass."

So these are observational openers. Where you comment/compliment her on something she's doing/wearing/ Which aren't bad in themselves (cause hey....you opened! props...lol). but as you can see, these kind of openers mostly get you "thanks bro" responds. which leaves you scrambling to find another question to ask her. Effectively throwing away a golden opportunity to really hook her in right away. Rather than having her wonder, "hmmm do I want to keep answering this guy's questions?" (if she's a YES, she just might...but a MAYBE...ehh).

Situational spike openers is where you spike her emotions (tease/cold-read/self amuse) based on what she's doing/wearing. So that it wouldn't make sense for her to reply to them with, "thanks" (unless she's a NO). She'd have to respond to your spike (or shit test you like set#2). And then from that response, you spike again (or pass her shit test...if your brain was thinking spike her "its not tiny" response...maybe you'd accuse her of obviously stealing it from a random little girl/her sister's cabinet or make tiny penis joke (I'm not sure what's that called...where someone says a word and then you respond with the first thing that comes to mind when you hear that word...words of association?). Now that you've got her full attention from the double spike, is where you'll want to ask her the classic pre-hook questions to get her to invest in you. What's her nationality (or cold read her nationality), how old she is (there are more but these are my 2 favorites) then spike THAT answer (does she speak the language? she's too old/young for you...you don't believe that she's actually X age/fake ID...etc). Here is when she'll start asking you questions in return. And its at this moment in the interaction, where you'll want to throw out a question (doesn't have to be relevant at all to the superficial nonsense conversation you guys have been engaged in thus far), which serves as your transition into your first routine.

Here's what should be going through your head before and after opening a girl you're interested in,

ok that girl over there looks good -> what is she doing/wearing that I can comment on -> what's the first thing that comes to mind that's funny about what's she's doing/wearing -> open -> spike whatever she said to me -> cold read her nationality based on her accent/face/dress -> spike whatever she said to me -> how old are you -> spike whatever she said to me -> make her guess for my nationality/age -> transitional question into my first routine.

Thank you for your detailed responses. There’s a ton to digest here. Funny you mention the observational openers; I’ve been transitioning from going direct (“hey, you look good I wanted to say hey”) to more observational or situational since back in June.

I’ll be reviewing and reflecting on this info throughout the week

 

[Chrance]

@Chrance How do you dress going out? Sharp or a low maintenance look? Nightlife is about looking sharp and stylish, you get more warmer reactions from women in my experience but it differs by individual.

I don’t think my style is much of a problem. It could always be flashier and more colorful though, but I’m really picky with clothes and hairstyles so adding those touches requires a lot of time, effort and shopping. With what I currently roll with, I doubt it’s much of an issue. I would definitely describe it as sharp. I try to avoid any look that is gay af, too hipster, or too fuck boi lmao. This is all referring to my nightlife style.

For professional or more uppity events, my style is pretty lame, could definitely use some improvements; but I don’t go to those events to look flashy or to meet babes, so spending $1000 on a fresh suit or taoilored button up? Ehh I’ll hold off

 

[Velasco]

Velasco, I really like some of your posts. I am just starting to learn verbal game myself and the info your posting is very helpful for me.

Appreciate it

Do you have a compiled document with all the routines that you run for every type of frame you want to set in the interaction? I want to have a routine memorized for each kind of frame that I wanted to set in the interaction. I really feel like learning a bunch of routines will really help free up some "mental ram" when I am in my sets.

I've shared I think 4 routines that I use, on this forum. 2 for each of the things I'm trying to accomplish that yields the highest odds of getting a SNL:

1). Turning her on (emotional)
2). Making her want to act on it...tonight (intellectual)

For the first, I have my 'favorite sex positions/foreplay' routine and 'gym' routine.

For the second, (I run my 'arousal' routines first, because I believe in order for one to want to act on a certain desire (horny in our case), one has to actually desire it in the first place. "people make buying decisions emotionally and then justify those decisions intellectually" - David Sandler. Another reason, is that sometimes you'll come across girls who don't have any stigma around fast sex, and only need to be aroused in order to fuck. See Teevster's article: https://www.girlschase.com/content/women-west-now-require-more-arouse TLDR: The less sexually repressed the women are (like in the U.S.), the less impact resistance busting techniques (tech that makes her want to act on her arousal) will have. So you won't need to run your 'making her feel allowed to have sex with you' routines, and can pull right away. And third, it screens out girls I don't want (sexually inexperienced/incompatible) immediately) I have my 'discreet/nonjudgemental' routine and my 'urgency' gambit.

If I get LMR at the sex location, due to her not being aroused enough to want to fuck, then I'll re-arouse her with my 'favorite sex story' routine, then escalate.

You can find all these routines, by clicking my name and going through my comments. Of course you can just steal my routines, but I prefer if you can create your own. And use mine for inspiration. Because there will come a point in time, where you'll get bored of running the same routines over and over again. (Teevster has told me, he creates and runs new routines every 4 months or so, and abandons the old ones for this reason).

Here's the 2-step process in creating your own routines:

1) Ask yourself what does she need to know about me in order to fuck me tonight (https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-use-sex-talk-set-sexual-tone-and-mood)
2) How can I transition into talking about that? (https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/transitions-into-demonstrating-snl-traits.21901 + https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/night-game-efficiency-or-time-management.22431/#post-112127)

 

[Eternity]

I don’t think my style is much of a problem. It could always be flashier and more colorful though, but I’m really picky with clothes and hairstyles so adding those touches requires a lot of time, effort and shopping. With what I currently roll with, I doubt it’s much of an issue. I would definitely describe it as sharp. I try to avoid any look that is gay af, too hipster, or too fuck boi lmao. This is all referring to my nightlife style.

For professional or more uppity events, my style is pretty lame, could definitely use some improvements; but I don’t go to those events to look flashy or to meet babes, so spending $1000 on a fresh suit or taoilored button up? Ehh I’ll hold off

Do you think maybe you're reciting your openers robotically and somewhat disinterested? Hence the hooking problem you're encountering. Do you smile or smirk when you open sets? I think your openers are good but it must be something going on from the get go that these girls don't hook properly.

 

[greenleaf]

I love you FR's, @Chrance - I think we could be related - I can relate a lot to your reports and you actually write a lot like me, too!

 

[Chrance]

Do you think maybe you're reciting your openers robotically and somewhat disinterested? Hence the hooking problem you're encountering. Do you smile or smirk when you open sets? I think your openers are good but it must be something going on from the get go that these girls don't hook properly.

I know there was one particular girl (not in the FR) where I opened like a bitch and she just totally ignored me lol. Besides that I think my presentation was good initially for nearly all of them. I don’t watch myself so it’s hard to say. I think it’s more due to a weak follow up after the initial open, where I have no conversational flow nor anything stimulating to say to grab their attention. I may have weak eye contact and body rocking too but I’m not 100% sure. These venues are all loud dance club locations, which I enjoy.