FR Scum of the Earth

[Kvothe]

The Context
Was out traveling this weekend. I'd gone with one friend. It was a city in the South, and I rediscovered that I love Southern girls. Something about their accents, their faces just radiates beauty, innocence, and naughtiness to me.

However on the first night, I got blown out by almost every single set. But I was judicious about my approaches, and managed to avoid being seen being rejected publicly. Body rocking for the win. My friend ended up leaving relatively early after having a bit much to drink so I was alone. He said he was going to sleep, so I was fairly certain at the time that my apartment would be figuratively empty.

Compared to the bar folks, I was dressed real nice-white shirt, black pants, black boots, with solid jewelry. Midwestern men simply don't have the best style.

The Approach
This venue had ample outside area, so I'd occasionally go and chill out there for a bit. I noticed a two set with one guy standing around and posted up near them, looking at my phone. Eventually the girl I was interested glanced my way and I opened. Was a fairly quick hook. However, a few minutes into it, a truly slimy guy comes into the fold, asking me what I think my girl does. I just look at him, and then I respond, "I don't know... something intriguing I suppose" and return to conversation with the girl. He leaves for a short time, at which point the girl tells me he's been following them around basically stalking them all night. He comes back and tries to get me to guess again. I just tell him we're having a conversation, then pull my girl to sit on a bench with me. Easy opportunity to contrast myself with creepy guys and build some sexual frame + comfort.

Her friend and the friend's guy see us sitting and talk to us. Turns out they met the guy yesterday and he's been a real good guy to them. He's helped them from losing their ID cards. My girl introduces me (and asks my name), then tells the friend I rescued her from the weirdo. So now I'm proofed by the friend I think.

By this point about 5-7 minutes have passed since the open. The hour is getting late and last call is nearly upon us. I realize this will be my last set of the night so I decide to push it as far as I can. Around this time, they invite me to join them for some food, and I'm down so I agree. I chose to follow their lead as it hadn't been long enough with them, and I didn't really have any compliance built up to avoid going to a bad logistics diner. But I figured that going with them would buy me time, which at that moment was my priority.

Wildcard #1
As we're walking, we realize that my girl doesn't have her phone. Did she lose it at the bar? Maybe. So we go back and look. It's past last call so the bouncers only let my girl in. I'm standing there talking with the friend, displaying high value and trying to remove a potential cock block. Out of the blue guess who arrives to announce their presence to me. Shitbrick himself. The creepy dude from earlier. He mocks me, asking where my girl went and how that's so sad. He's very aggressively oriented, his face very close to mine. I'm relatively proud that I didn't lower my eyes or act intimidated in the slightest. I truly did not believe I was in any danger from this guy (note that the state I was in has open carry laws so he honestly could have had a gun-I just didn't think about this). Worth noting that my girl's friend is right next to me watching this entire interaction between the two of us.

He leaves again, chasing after some girls he spies in the distance. Me and the friend's guy watch him. The guy has a suspicion that the creep stole my girl's phone, so we try calling it, and see that the guy is carrying a second phone, in a distinctively recognizable phone case.

THIS FUCKER STOLE A GIRL'S PHONE.

Me and the guy go confront him. It very nearly escalates to a fight. I'm glad it didn't. But my adrenaline spiked and for a second I was worried. In all honesty, it was a stupid move to confront the guy, and I wouldn't recommend it to others. People can be crazy, and we should have called the cops instead.

Probably worth noting I don't actually know how confronting the guy would play regarding the girls' opinions of me. Would I come across as a SIMP, or a provider instead of a lover? Maybe. Honestly, I don't care particularly if it affected me negatively. I wasn't thinking about that in the moment. I was just pissed that someone would do that to another person. I just wanted to help a sweet girl who someone was being awful to.

Thankfully, the other guy with me is a big dude, and the creep is "convinced" to come with us and give the phone back. He claims he found it and wanted to make sure the girls got it back.

I've never sympathized more with women and their risk-averse nature more in my life. To all the aspiring seducers out there, understand that women truly do face real risks when a man opens them. If you feel negative that a girl doesn't give you the time of day, if you have malicious thoughts towards women for rejecting you with anger, remember the type of guys that are out there in the world, and remember the kind of man you aspire to be.

While I greatly dislike entering the minds of truly bad people, my best guess is that he had planned to use the phone to call the friend at some later point and use it try and meet the girl again.

Scum.

Resuming the Seduction
We wait for my girl to come back. And she's angry. Angry-scared I would call it. As someone who was close to being robbed, it's understandable. We all comfort her, though the girl's friend focuses more on her guy and leaves me to look after my girl. I focus on bringing her mood back up by pacing and leading. Soon she's feeling good again. The guy suggests we go and grab food now. He calls an Uber. Him and my girl have a light argument about the location because she thinks that the location is ghetto. I suggest grabbing delivery (but I don't specify to my airbnb, so they may have thought I meant delivery to the street we were on). We decide to go to the restaurant and hop in the Uber.

Worth noting at this point that the airbnb I'm staying at has a pool.

I push again for a location closer to my airbnb, but this time I suggest that we go down to the pool at my airbnb and eat there. They all agree with this, and we change the Uber location. I mistype it though, so we end up a 5 min walk away. But the vibe is solid. I'm building emotional stimulation and sexual frame. I give my girl my arm and she walks with her hand through my arm. The friend and her guy are walking a fair distance behind us, so we're together, but isolated from each other. At some point my girl takes off her shoes, and says her feet are hurting. I suggest I give her a piggyback or carry her for a bit (said with a smirk). She objects saying she's too heavy for me to lift up (she's not heavy though which strikes me as a body image). We walk and the vibe is solid and sexual and emotionally stimulating.

Sidenote: I talked with teevs and he heavily advised against using pools as props. I didn't realize at the moment, otherwise I could have suggested an afterparty at my airbnb 2 minutes away. I thought pools would be great logistics so from the beginning of the night I wanted to push for that.

Wildcard #2
We reach the airbnb and my friend is still awake. I wasn't expecting this. I introduce him to the group. The girls end up inviting him to join us by the pool, and he agrees. I think this was a bad move. At that moment, I thought my friend did have a chance with the friend, but the issue was that the guy with us wanted the friend too. I knew he would likely sink the entire interaction if he couldn't get his girl. I think my friend shouldn't have joined us in the pool, but this is a situation I should have planned for. I should have sent him a text when I knew I was bringing the girls home. And I should have pulled him aside at some point and let him know that it didn't make sense for him to join us. I told him next time that he should follow my lead and that if I invited him because I sensed the other guy could be removed without costing a lay, then he should come, but otherwise he should refuse.

I must admit I also felt guilty as the guy had my back when confronting the creep. He had consistently built me up to my girl the entire night. He played an active role in the pull to the airbnb. He was a genuinely kind person.

The Pool
As I mentioned, my girls feet are hurting, and the pool ground is extremely painful to her. So she has to sit down on the way there, and that gives us some good opportunities for isolation.

So now 5 of us at the pool. Me and my girl are well isolated and having deep conversations. Switching between comfort building fluff talk, emotional stimulation, and sexual arousal. I go through the sexual frustration gambit, as well as contrast myself against other men. She's very compliant, and initiating touch with me.

However, my girl isn't the alpha girl, her friend is. I do try to play matchmaker from my girl's point of view, and build that conspiracy to get the friend hooked up with the guy. But... my girl tells me, her friend is very attention seeking and loves being chased by men. And she has two of them after her.

I do notice that the friend is now focusing more on my friend than the original guy. And I can see his behavior shift. Before he was helping me out, and now the bitter emotions are becoming clearer on his face. I don't really know what to do in this situation. My friend and the girl are now both laying down facing the stars having a good conversation, while I'm doing the same thing with my girl.

Losing it all
At some point the guy pulls the friend aside. The food has been eaten, and when they come back, my girl's friend says they should probably leave. As we're walking back, my girl's feet hurt and I get a few more moments of isolation with my girl, and I try to suggest she stay. However she doesn't want to have her friend drive home alone. I tell my girl I really enjoy talking to her and she replies just as positively. I suggest maybe they can stay longer and listen to some music. My girl says maybe if the friend is down.

The above would have been a good opportunity for pacing and leading to push for going back to hers.

I talked briefly with teevs, and he suggested I should have really dialed up the sex talk to more intense topics, to really push her over the edge to the it's on moment. (Discussed further, and this strategy would have been more appropriate had my girl been the alpha).

In retrospect, I also could have yes-laddered into going home with my girl. All the options are better than the lack of persistence I did.

They leave the airbnb. A regretful stare passes between me and my girl.

The door closes.

 

[Skills]

- in this situation going after the girl phone does not make you look like a simp or a white night at all.

- This is the problem with the 2 set, this has happened to me many times, if the friend does not hook up 2 things could happen:

a.- she will be cool and let the friend hook up with you, even encourage it.
b- ruin the whole thing, the best way to avoid this is to win her completely over, if this happens she will do a.

this is the problem i have had many times, you are in the situation of 2 set, if the girls is not into the player you just met, it will ruin the whole thing... What i have done is completely seduced the friend to hook up with the stranger is a bit of work and i coach a bit the dude and kind of influence the friend, but is a lot of work...

The last time i was in a similar situation i had a girl and a civilian i just met at the club, everything was going perfect, then the dude got paranoid cause he had a live in waiting for him at home that was texting him... The friend was cool enough after to facilitate and not cock block.. (if chase does the private journal stuff i will go in more detail)...

Bottom line dual seduction with a wild card player that is not your wing is extremely frustrating and again the only way after what happened to you happened to me a bunch of time, is that you pretty much have to be leader and seduce everybody so you need to seduce and influence the girl and help with the seduction the wild card dude and the girl, it is a lot work EVEN, if the girl into the dude, you still need to a lot of work and see were they are in the other civilian cock block seduction at all times... you can not just leave them totally alone 100% unless is a go, from those 2... Also yeah your roomate was a mistake, unless you could have found a way to get rid of that dude...

 

[Chase]

@Kvothe,

Good on you confronting the creepy guy. It doesn't hurt you in any way (like @Skills notes) and can be a good thing seduction-wise. It's a big trust booster, providing genuine aid to her like that.

You handled the pull well, and would've had a halfway decent setup there if not for your friend (well, assuming you could've escalated/isolated/shagged your girl quick enough before the friend got tired of the guy she didn't want). There are a couple options there:

1. Team up with your friend to push the other guy out and make him feel unwelcome enough he leaves. Of course considering the camaraderie you had with the other guy from earlier, this would be uncool.
   
   
2. Take your friend aside (or shoot him a well-worded text) and suggest he pull way back and basically act disinterested in the girl. If your friend's cool he will take one for the team... usually the girl will try to 'punish' him by escalating with the other guy.
   
   
3. There's also a third option, probably tough here because you're traveling, but if you know a girl or two who might be down to come over, especially either a female friend or some girl you linked up with it hasn't been going anywhere with, take a picture of the five of you by the pool, send it to her, and tell her to come over. If you get another girl or two over, the third wheel guy stops being a third wheel and can change over to another girl there.

That's a good recommendation from @Teevster to try to push her over the edge. If you can do that she'll start working to try and help solve logistics herself.

At some point he pulls the friend aside. The food has been eaten, and the friend says they should probably leave. As we're walking back, I get a few moments of isolation with my girl, and I try to suggest she stay. However she doesn't want to have her friend drive home alone. I suggest maybe they can stay longer and listen to some music. My girl says maybe if the friend is down.

That was a good call isolating her to see if she'd stay after the friend left.

Once she rejects it, then yes, the next play is see if she'll take you with her:

You: You should stay longer. It's too early to go.​

​

Her: I don't want Sophie to have to drive home alone.​

​

You: Well, I'm having such a good time with you, I hate to part ways.​

​

Her: I know, it's been so good talking with you.​

​

You: If only there was a way I could come with you...​

​

Her: You want to come to my place?​

​

You: Sure, that could work.​

​

Her: [thinking] All right. But I have to drop Sophie off first.​

There are two risky points in a sequence like that:

• When you throw that statement out there that you're having such a great time with her, if she doesn't reciprocate (e.g., if she gives you something lukewarm like "Well, we can do it again sometime"), it's probably not happening
  
  
• When you throw that "If only there was a way..." statement out, if she responds with a rejection (e.g., "Not tonight, I have to get to sleep") it's done

But if she responds in kind when you say you like hanging out with her, and her response to the suggestion you come with her is positive, or is one where it's obvious she hadn't even thought of that idea, it's pretty straightforward from there... you just agree as if the whole thing was her idea.

(I probably need to do an article on this. It's a fun technique!)

You don't usually want to try telling them both to stay after the friend already wants to go, unless you have some way to address whatever it is the friend needs (in this case, it doesn't seem like you did).

Anyway, well handled here, Kvothe. You just need a few backup tactics in your belt for some of these less common scenarios (dealing with third wheel situations; handling the "girl seems into me but has to go because her friend the leader wants to go" situations), and you'll be sailing smooth even when the seas get choppy

Chase

P.S., on escalating on your girl when her girlfriend is with some guy she isn't really into, if the pool is isolated enough and your girl is horny enough, you can avoid the "how can I pull my girl back to the room, because her friend is with a guy she doesn't want and may not let her leave?" problem by taking your girl to the pool, getting hot and heavy with her there, and going for surreptitious pool sex... just have her get in in her underwear and you do too, then pull her and your undies to the side and go into her. You can shag her right in front of her friend and they won't know for sure it's what you're doing (and not just grinding)... pool's are great for this.

 

[climbingup]

That guy backed you up when you confronted a potentially aggressive stranger and you got rid of him..with a quickness hahaha

At least he'll learn, all is fair in Love and War! Simpin ain't easy

 

[Kvothe]

Just fyi I updated the FR after teevs made it abundantly clear I didn't have anywhere near enough detail to figure out the minutiae of the decisions to really figure out where my decisions were wrong and at what point I needed more information to calibrate properly.

@Chase @Skills

Really appreciate the feedback! I agree with both of what you said. I wasn't really concerned with the provider vs lover of confronting the guy. Either way the tourist frame basically prevents me from being a provider.

I don't have much practice coaching the other guy and hooking him up with another guy. That one is a difficult skill to practice :/

I'd love to see that article Chase, I'm sure it would be cool.

I also think I should not keep pushing for the same compliance, and changing up the options (going from staying, to going with her, to getting her opinion on how to move forward, etc).

Either way, was a tough situation for sure.

@climbingup I didn't get rid of him. I left him and my friend to duke it out. I should have played a more active role though in it.

 

[Chase]

@Kvothe,

Just fyi I updated the FR after teevs made it abundantly clear I didn't have anywhere near enough detail to figure out the minutiae of the decisions to really figure out where my decisions were wrong and at what point I needed more information to calibrate properly.

Yeah... wasn't clear if she was going with the friend to keep the friend company, or if she wasn't really feeling it, etc.

Depending on the nature of why she was doing what she was doing, you can have very different preferred moves for the situation.

Feeling girls out more in unclear scenarios is going to help a lot in getting proper calibration to whatever the situation is.

I'd love to see that article Chase, I'm sure it would be cool.

Done!

Indirect Pulls: The Low-Risk Way to Invite Girls to Your Place

When you want to invite a woman home, but the situation is dicey, rather than risk big and go direct, use the lower risk alternative: invite her home indirectly. There comes a time in every seduction where you must complete the seduction. You have to be able to get together with a girl...

www.girlschase.com

I also think I should not keep pushing for the same compliance, and changing up the options (going from staying, to going with her, to getting her opinion on how to move forward, etc).

Yes, that's the normal best practice with persistence: don't keep saying the same thing... persist with different-seeming options, different benefits, etc. You should also be drawing out her objections and addressing those as you persist. Otherwise it risks feeling like the guy who is clinging to what he wants, and not listening to / responding to what she does.

Chase

 

[Kvothe]

@Chase I realized I still hadn’t included that part, but I did tell her I really enjoyed talking with her when I was isolated right before the girls left, and she responded just as positively. I really should have attempted the persist.

And thanks for the article! Will keep it in my arsenal for next time!

 

[Skills]

Just fyi I updated the FR after teevs made it abundantly clear I didn't have anywhere near enough detail to figure out the minutiae of the decisions to really figure out where my decisions were wrong and at what point I needed more information to calibrate properly.

@Chase @Skills

Really appreciate the feedback! I agree with both of what you said. I wasn't really concerned with the provider vs lover of confronting the guy. Either way the tourist frame basically prevents me from being a provider.

I don't have much practice coaching the other guy and hooking him up with another guy. That one is a difficult skill to practice :/

I'd love to see that article Chase, I'm sure it would be cool.

I also think I should not keep pushing for the same compliance, and changing up the options (going from staying, to going with her, to getting her opinion on how to move forward, etc).

Either way, was a tough situation for sure.

@climbingup I didn't get rid of him. I left him and my friend to duke it out. I should have played a more active role though in it.

You mean girl on the bolded, i assumed misspelling (no homo)...

you can do simple future projections to seduce the group and help the civilian get with that girl:

" this guy seems pretty cool if it was not for him we could not have gotten her phone, his a hero, it would be nice to have a guy like this in your life that can protect you"

you tell your girl in a way they both hear: "don't they look like a great couple, make sure you guys invite me to the wedding"

you can even do the picture routine, let me take a picture of you guys fighting, smiling, now kissing etc...(i never done this but style had something like this i can see stuff like this working)....

I help a dude with dancing close with a girl, (seductive dancing coaching them both)... They ended up living together and she getting prego.


^ this are just silly no complex seduction stuff the whole point you are helping him escalate and look good and shit like that, humor/sarcasm helps as well, but necessary....

This types of situation were you have 2-3 sets and you are alone, wildcard civilians involved are going to happen over and over and over and over again, is part of night game....

l

 

[Beck Bass]

But if she responds in kind when you say you like hanging out with her, and her response to the suggestion you come with her is positive, or is one where it's obvious she hadn't even thought of that idea, it's pretty straightforward from there... you just agree as if the whole thing was her idea.

(I probably need to do an article on this. It's a fun technique!)

Please do Chase!

P.S., on escalating on your girl when her girlfriend is with some guy she isn't really into, if the pool is isolated enough and your girl is horny enough, you can avoid the "how can I pull my girl back to the room, because her friend is with a guy she doesn't want and may not let her leave?" problem by taking your girl to the pool, getting hot and heavy with her there, and going for surreptitious pool sex... just have her get in in her underwear and you do too, then pull her and your undies to the side and go into her. You can shag her right in front of her friend and they won't know for sure it's what you're doing (and not just grinding)... pool's are great for this.

I have to try this, I used to have sex on bathtubs with my ex but I never done it in a pool (in front of other people), must be a crazy feeling

@Chase I realized I still hadn’t included that part, but I did tell her I really enjoyed talking with her when I was isolated right before the girls left, and she responded just as positively. I really should have attempted the persist.

And thanks for the article! Will keep it in my arsenal for next time!

Yeah you played good game @Kvothe, this girl was to be yours, it just didn't pan out that time. Too bad the other guy didn't have a girl to entertain him, he really seemed like a good fella. If I was in your shoes, I would have grabbed her contact and met her alone afterwards, should be smooth sailing, from what I read (dunno if you did that)