Seems like Dan Bilzerian "reads" SS & GC: Money & Looks no longer important with women

[PaulieFlyn10]

So yeah, slight click bait lol. But it seems like Dan has dropped the whole money and looks thing being important for game

I wanted my next thread to be a continuation of the previous one but I just watched this Dan interview and interesting how he's changed his views on game/seduction. In fact, a lot of what he says in the interview sounds like one you have been coaching him lol

Most of what he says won't be new to you so just see it as refresher sort of:


--- He talked about how over investing or showing over interest in women in the past made him lose a ton of girls

For example, he told stories of how girls showed how much they wanted to fuck him but he still blew it because of bad game. In one story... the girl sent a nude with her buttole wide open and he blew it because he acted over eager and over interested

He made the analogy that as men when you do things for your bro and put in effort for your guy, he tends to appreciate you and want to return the favour.... but with women "more effort into her and the relationship creates a negative correlation"

Basically you putting more effort into it creates a negative outcome


---- He also mentioned how some of his broke friends get more pussy than his rich ones. And how money can be detrimental when used incorrectly

From his perspective, his most successful friends tend to do the worst with women. His reason is that most successful guys put a ton of work In their business and it turns out great... so the carry that same mindset with women, thinking putting in a ton of effort with women will work until it backfires

In their minds, they invested money in their business and got an ROI... so they think if I invest more Into the woman... they should get an ROI too.... but of course, it doesn't work that way


Conclusion
one thing I took from it is how very detrimental it is to over show interest ESPECIALLY when the girl sees you as high status

She expects high status behaviour from you but when you act contrary... her attraction for you drops fast

Anyways, pretty interesting how the icon for looks, money, status has gone 360 on this

Any thoughts? Ideas?

 

[topcat]

but with women "more effort into her and the relationship creates a negative correlation"

Overall, good point made and i don’t disagree with them, though i want to contest the above:

From my experience (and please do contest if you’ve observed differently) it is important to invest proportionately with your partners.

Overinvesting, meaning to invest more than your partner, would be detrimental, and in the context of a relationship is the equivalent of high attainability and will hurt your relationship.

Likewise, disproportionately low investment, will also hurt your relationship as it will lead to ego depletion and burnout (though likely on a slower timeline vs short term seductions) and is analogous to low attainability.

The sweet spot is to invest slightly less than your woman, but always invest proportionately.

In relationships the “game is compliance” model carries over. Here we read investment as compliance, and reward with investment of our own.

 

[Chase]

Nice.

I've been trying to get LMS to jump the shark for years now.

Sometimes it feels like we're the only ones out there fighting the good fight. Happy to have him on the side of light

Yeah, the broke thing always seems crazy... until you realize broke guy with game = super simple decision making for girls.

"Well, he's never going to be a guy I'll date seriously... but sheesh, he's sexy. So why not? I'll just hook up with him." -> no LMR.

That's an interesting observation from him that successful guys plow too much energy into girls. A few observations along those lines:

• Girls will actually expect successful guys to invest more in them and be insulted if they do not. i.e., they feel like the guy is saying they "are not worth" investing more in. So attainability takes a dive.
  
  
• It is very difficult for successful guys to avoid bragging about their success at least a little bit. They worked hard for it; they are proud of it. It is a big part of their identities. But as soon as you start talking about how successful you are with girls, some of them see "HUSBAND MATERIAL" and others of them see "GUY WHO CAN BUY ME LOTS OF FREE STUFF." Either way, the girl's main point of leverage (her pussy) gets put under lock and key while she strives for assurances she will get what she wants.

The best way around it I have seen is a buddy who oozes success but is deliberately evasive about how successful he is with girls on most things, while busting on them a lot, while at the same time offering to give them advice or make introductions for them. So he is still showing he values the girl enough to really help her out, but the help he is offering is either advice or connections, none of it anything material or any kind of real commitment from him. Same time the busting keeps a very flirtatious, unserious frame with the girl. Girls who are into him for him dig it; girls who want to get stuff will go along with it because they want the advice or connections (then end up in his bed).

(the sad thing about LMS is that looks and especially status play a role in seduction... but these LMS guys get fixated on them with autistic fervor and inflate their importance to ludicrous extent. Their lack of actual seductive experience puts them into this "blind leading the blind" position that is really harmful for impressionable guys who don't know who to listen to and are already leaning toward black pill doomer defeatism)

Chase

 

[Skills]

Not this again everything matters leading with money is the problem.... And with the looks stuff has been discussed to death. Everything matters, but looks and money the weapons without knowing how to shoot you won't be able to kill the pray... There are plenty of guys in this forum with money and looks getting laid... There are plenty of others looking for ways to get around getting laid despite not having either.... Dan Balzirian game is set ups, in other words more women than men in his parties (simple to be honest)

How doubling my income has affected my seduction/lifestyle (for those of you that complain about money)

I got a job were i double my income last couple of months (working from home and a lot of free time)... I have always explain how making money in the past totally slow down my seductions.... Now i will show some of the good and the bad, it mostly bad, but there is some good...(i will just stay...

www.skilledseducer.com

Best explanation I have ever found on looks matter theory (featuring Alex Novy from Sleazy forum) - The Skills Method

All questions and doubts that you ever had on looks mattering when it comes to seduction are answer in this blog.

www.theskillsmethod.com

I break down Dan Balzirian game and what he does and how to replicate it without having millions:

 

[isildur1]

don't get the argument- i spent a lot of time approaching women and the more approaches i did the better things got purely from variance , more yes girls, more relationships and more experience- showing interest and leading is key to cultivating and converting from casual sex to LTRs in my opinion. I fucked up a lot of relationships by not being proactive enough post sex and being a bit too lazy - so balance is definitely key.

And even believing Dan Bilzerian? I mean why? He pays for hookers and has lied about his poker career- my close friend is a professional poker player and he believes Dan's poker ability is amateur at best. Not sure hes the best example for dating for the average joe - i mean there's no reliability to him whatsoever and when someone lies about so much its hard to take them seriously after you know the truth.

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

Nice.

I've been trying to get LMS to jump the shark for years now.

Sometimes it feels like we're the only ones out there fighting the good fight. Happy to have him on the side of light

Yeah, the broke thing always seems crazy... until you realize broke guy with game = super simple decision making for girls.

"Well, he's never going to be a guy I'll date seriously... but sheesh, he's sexy. So why not? I'll just hook up with him." -> no LMR.

That's an interesting observation from him that successful guys plow too much energy into girls. A few observations along those lines:

• Girls will actually expect successful guys to invest more in them and be insulted if they do not. i.e., they feel like the guy is saying they "are not worth" investing more in. So attainability takes a dive.
  
  
• It is very difficult for successful guys to avoid bragging about their success at least a little bit. They worked hard for it; they are proud of it. It is a big part of their identities. But as soon as you start talking about how successful you are with girls, some of them see "HUSBAND MATERIAL" and others of them see "GUY WHO CAN BUY ME LOTS OF FREE STUFF." Either way, the girl's main point of leverage (her pussy) gets put under lock and key while she strives for assurances she will get what she wants.

The best way around it I have seen is a buddy who oozes success but is deliberately evasive about how successful he is with girls on most things, while busting on them a lot, while at the same time offering to give them advice or make introductions for them. So he is still showing he values the girl enough to really help her out, but the help he is offering is either advice or connections, none of it anything material or any kind of real commitment from him. Same time the busting keeps a very flirtatious, unserious frame with the girl. Girls who are into him for him dig it; girls who want to get stuff will go along with it because they want the advice or connections (then end up in his bed).

(the sad thing about LMS is that looks and especially status play a role in seduction... but these LMS guys get fixated on them with autistic fervor and inflate their importance to ludicrous extent. Their lack of actual seductive experience puts them into this "blind leading the blind" position that is really harmful for impressionable guys who don't know who to listen to and are already leaning toward black pill doomer defeatism)

Chase

Interesting.

I like the part about how girls can want more investment from a rich/high status guy to prove like they mean something so it doesn’t hurt attainability

Definitely worth noting.

Also, an article or thread on how to handle stuff like this in situations or with girls where it's pretty much impossible to hide the fact that you're high status or that you have money. I mean, you can downplay it to an extent but overall she knows

 

[Chase]

Interesting.

I like the part about how girls can want more investment from a rich/high status guy to prove like they mean something so it doesn’t hurt attainability

Definitely worth noting.

Also, an article or thread on how to handle stuff like this in situations or with girls where it's pretty much impossible to hide the fact that you're high status or that you have money. I mean, you can downplay it to an extent but overall she knows

I would add that this is kind of the case with everyone, frankly.

A very wealthy friend of mine has mentioned that one of the toughest things for him is just people trying to get stuff from him, expecting him to pay for things, getting upset if he doesn't pay for them, etc. Not just girls, but guys he hangs out with and so on.

I have heard a lot of people complain about how after they got rich suddenly all these family members, long lost friends, etc., come crawling out of the woodwork needing help with bills, with these various 'startup' ideas they want investment in, and so on, then get super pissed off if you tell them no.

There seems to just be this general human feeling of, "Oh! I know someone who has a lot of something. I wonder if he will give some of that something to me!"

It is not just restricted to wealth. It happens with anything where you have "something" that other people want.

Talented developers in the startup space complain about people hitting them up online telling them they want them to build their startup idea. Multiple people a week will be coming to them saying, "Hey, I have this great idea! I have the idea, you do all the work to code up and develop my idea, we split the profits 50/50!" and then these people get all miffed when the developer tells them no thanks, I think I'll pass.

Even just me in the dating space... when this website first got popular in 2011, we had the typical contact form page on the site, and all these emails started flooding in. Guys would message me all these different scenarios they were having with girls, asking me to solve their problems for them for free. I wanted to be helpful, so I'd read their long emails and write my replies, and then they'd send a follow-up email with more details asking for more help, and pretty soon I was spending 3-4 hours a day just typing out free advice to all these guys who were emailing me about this or that girl they were trying to get with or dealing with in some way. It was totally exhausting and if I didn't email them back fast enough some of them would start getting all pissy, accuse me of being too good to reply to them, etc. Eventually I had to hire customer service people and stop answering emails directly because it was just too much.

It is this ubiquitous problem of "if you have a lot of something I value, but you don't want to give me some of it, or don't want to give me an amount that I view as generous enough, that means you're selfish and/or you don't really like me."

Figuring out how to balance that properly is key to being able to use wealth or other status markers to your benefit with people rather than to your detriment.

Chase

 

[Warped Mindless]

I would add that this is kind of the case with everyone, frankly.

A very wealthy friend of mine has mentioned that one of the toughest things for him is just people trying to get stuff from him, expecting him to pay for things, getting upset if he doesn't pay for them, etc. Not just girls, but guys he hangs out with and so on.

I have heard a lot of people complain about how after they got rich suddenly all these family members, long lost friends, etc., come crawling out of the woodwork needing help with bills, with these various 'startup' ideas they want investment in, and so on, then get super pissed off if you tell them no.

There seems to just be this general human feeling of, "Oh! I know someone who has a lot of something. I wonder if he will give some of that something to me!"

It is not just restricted to wealth. It happens with anything where you have "something" that other people want.

Talented developers in the startup space complain about people hitting them up online telling them they want them to build their startup idea. Multiple people a week will be coming to them saying, "Hey, I have this great idea! I have the idea, you do all the work to code up and develop my idea, we split the profits 50/50!" and then these people get all miffed when the developer tells them no thanks, I think I'll pass.

Even just me in the dating space... when this website first got popular in 2011, we had the typical contact form page on the site, and all these emails started flooding in. Guys would message me all these different scenarios they were having with girls, asking me to solve their problems for them for free. I wanted to be helpful, so I'd read their long emails and write my replies, and then they'd send a follow-up email with more details asking for more help, and pretty soon I was spending 3-4 hours a day just typing out free advice to all these guys who were emailing me about this or that girl they were trying to get with or dealing with in some way. It was totally exhausting and if I didn't email them back fast enough some of them would start getting all pissy, accuse me of being too good to reply to them, etc. Eventually I had to hire customer service people and stop answering emails directly because it was just too much.

It is this ubiquitous problem of "if you have a lot of something I value, but you don't want to give me some of it, or don't want to give me an amount that I view as generous enough, that means you're selfish and/or you don't really like me."

Figuring out how to balance that properly is key to being able to use wealth or other status markers to your benefit with people rather than to your detriment.

Chase

This is one reason that wealthy people tend to hang around only other wealthy people. Not the only reason of course but a big one.

People like to use terms like “stuck up” and “snobby elite” but reality is, no one likes feeling like a damn atm.

 

[Francis]

I would add that this is kind of the case with everyone, frankly.

A very wealthy friend of mine has mentioned that one of the toughest things for him is just people trying to get stuff from him, expecting him to pay for things, getting upset if he doesn't pay for them, etc. Not just girls, but guys he hangs out with and so on.

I have heard a lot of people complain about how after they got rich suddenly all these family members, long lost friends, etc., come crawling out of the woodwork needing help with bills, with these various 'startup' ideas they want investment in, and so on, then get super pissed off if you tell them no.

There seems to just be this general human feeling of, "Oh! I know someone who has a lot of something. I wonder if he will give some of that something to me!"

It is not just restricted to wealth. It happens with anything where you have "something" that other people want.

Talented developers in the startup space complain about people hitting them up online telling them they want them to build their startup idea. Multiple people a week will be coming to them saying, "Hey, I have this great idea! I have the idea, you do all the work to code up and develop my idea, we split the profits 50/50!" and then these people get all miffed when the developer tells them no thanks, I think I'll pass.

Even just me in the dating space... when this website first got popular in 2011, we had the typical contact form page on the site, and all these emails started flooding in. Guys would message me all these different scenarios they were having with girls, asking me to solve their problems for them for free. I wanted to be helpful, so I'd read their long emails and write my replies, and then they'd send a follow-up email with more details asking for more help, and pretty soon I was spending 3-4 hours a day just typing out free advice to all these guys who were emailing me about this or that girl they were trying to get with or dealing with in some way. It was totally exhausting and if I didn't email them back fast enough some of them would start getting all pissy, accuse me of being too good to reply to them, etc. Eventually I had to hire customer service people and stop answering emails directly because it was just too much.

It is this ubiquitous problem of "if you have a lot of something I value, but you don't want to give me some of it, or don't want to give me an amount that I view as generous enough, that means you're selfish and/or you don't really like me."

Figuring out how to balance that properly is key to being able to use wealth or other status markers to your benefit with people rather than to your detriment.

Chase

I am pretty surprised with the amount of help you do give on the forum. I am sure it helps with member retention, especially for new joiners, but know you could command quite a rate for coaching. So it does not go unappreciated and I hope to help some of the newer guys as well.

Accessing to mating opportunities is up there in importance close to food, water, and shelter... So from the bottom of my dick, thanks Chase.

 

[Francis]

*access to

 

[truthasker]

I have noticed from few videos I watched of Dan is that he NEVER seems to get impressed. I remember Vitalyzd visiting him and talking with Dan, and Dan seemed to talk to him as if he were lower status. Try listening to him, he sounds like he doesn't care that much. I wonder if this is the best way of talking. He doesn't look that expressive or ethusiastic when talking either.

 

[theReason]

 

[Bill]

He’s not going to be an effective messenger on this subject given his reputation

 

[MuST0BtA1NSkR1Lla]

Yeah if you have:

- A house

- Free time

- Interests

You’ll win out against somebody who has none of these things.

Of course you’ll always have women who go after the classical archetypes, “Starving artist, Warrior etc….”

I wonder if Dan has any kids, I’ve found quite a few times in social circles when I’ve seen this change of heart it’s usually when they have babies or daughters. It should be studied the cognitive dissonance of parents.

I have the examples too, for example rich guys gang banging OR gangsters doing the same shit. Then they pop out the kids and all the suddenly it’s a change of heart, “Oh women just want to be loved and secure without financial worry!” Or some epiphany that follows that train of thought. Which I’ve then had to sit in the same room with their daughters. This is where I feel Dan is coming from. He sees all these women with their titties out and doesn’t want the same for his daughters thus the change of thinking.

Money and looks has its place, money gives you access to situations and looks make the gaming process a lot easier. Gaming fundamentals will allow you to punch out of your weight class more often.

 

[WierdDough]

On status, I would have to say that two things are true at the same time. When status is involved in the seduction, the high status males seem to have the most availability to sex. Also, when status seems to be a non issue in the seduction, the availability of sex seems to increase overall, and introducing status to these situations can actually detrimental. I guess the lover/provider dichotomy already explains this phenomenon in detail.

This video though, seeing the way Dan is handling himself in this interview, I must say I find it hard to believe he´s a good seducer. The need for validation seems pretty big, always wanting to come across a certain way with every answer, caring a lot about how his answers reflects on his character. Could just be the setting I guess, interviews do add some level of pressure to the subject.

Best regards, WD