Sell the middle length relationship

[Cody Lyans]

OK so this is something I have started doing. I don't promise long term cuz I can't be that picky with who I date and I am not a religious wait to marriage kinda dude, never was, won't ever be. That said over the years I try not to do ons and the only real reason behind it is, most girls fear it.... Why? Cuz most guys do it that way and they get tired of no emotional connection and feel hollow, I can appreciate it can bring about apathy, exhaustion, and a question about yourself and wtf u r doing in life.
So that said I sell the in between.
I say to a girl ons are good in the sense that you should not be limited by what others think, long term is good in terms of becoming secure in yourself and your capacity to have real connections, but it's rare you find the one or something that easy... So...

I aim for a healthy middle ground
Because sex should be fantastic and if it is, why limit it to once when there is so much to explore, roles to play, fantasies to fulfill, dynamics to play with changes in mood to enjoy when you know someone
But at the same time, no one in this world lacks that other side to them, doubt, fear about the next step, heck even fearing death comes into it... So imo long term relationship promises are NAIVE
It is cool with me if you are for it, it's OK to be purposely naive to suit a purpose but I am up front
We probably won't dying in each other's arms, but we might enjoy some beautiful sunsets and create long lasting memories and explore all we have got
Ready for that kind of adventure

So yeah, this is just one way to frame things to a woman
Say that long term is naive for a few reasons, short term good but exhausting and doesn't max out the fun factors and a dash of emotion
And then you sell the sexual payoff of the middle length

The purpose of this frame is to bulldoze through ons asd and to crush the soul of her fear of commitment
It's logical and emotionally powerful
I am finding it useful

I play with it like well I like to know you enough that I can give you a cool nick name
That's my standard a girl to be badass enough for me to go with her and knight her with a badass name
Forcing me to aim high but nooot unrealistically so

Took me a while to figure this one out
Dunno whether to be proud or to face-palm, but either way now it's yours too

 

[Grand Pooba]

Cody - can you explain exactly how you do this? I'm finding it a bit hard to follow your post as far as a process goes. Are you effectively saying you're selling a temporary relationship somewhere between 3 months and 2 years long, non monogamous?

 

[Velasco]

@Grand Pooba

The way I see it there are 4 frames you'll want to convey to sell an MLR to a girl you just met:

1. You are not a serious person. instead just a fun laid back loving sexual guy that goes with the flow.
2. You are not a fan of One Night Stands. Because to you they are meaningless and empty. And stress how you only want to sleep with girls who have strong chemistry with and will want to see again. Even if its the first night you meet.
3. Talk about your views and dislike of marriage. Laugh about it. Point out how miserable people are that are forced to be in relationships they no longer want to be in, but stay together for other reasons besides genuinely wanting to be with that person out of love and desire.
4. Talk about all the incredible and fun adventures you've had with girls over the years. And how much you love it.

 

[Grand Pooba]

@Grand Pooba

The way I see it there are 4 frames you'll want to convey to sell an MLR to a girl you just met:

1. You are not a serious person. instead just a fun laid back loving sexual guy that goes with the flow.
2. You are not a fan of One Night Stands. Because to you they are meaningless and empty. And stress how you only want to sleep with girls who have strong chemistry with and will want to see again. Even if its the first night you meet.
3. Talk about your views and dislike of marriage. Laugh about it. Point out how miserable people are that are forced to be in relationships they no longer want to be in, but stay together for other reasons besides genuinely wanting to be with that person out of love and desire.
4. Talk about all the incredible and fun adventures you've had with girls over the years. And how much you love it.

@Velasco this is far more clear - thanks.

Just to clarify I love MLRs and pretty much exclusively do this anyway with all my mLTRs and girls I'm dating regularly, but this is helpful for anyone reading this post.

 

[Superlife]

@Grand Pooba

The way I see it there are 4 frames you'll want to convey to sell an MLR to a girl you just met:

1. You are not a serious person. instead just a fun laid back loving sexual guy that goes with the flow.
2. You are not a fan of One Night Stands. Because to you they are meaningless and empty. And stress how you only want to sleep with girls who have strong chemistry with and will want to see again. Even if its the first night you meet.
3. Talk about your views and dislike of marriage. Laugh about it. Point out how miserable people are that are forced to be in relationships they no longer want to be in, but stay together for other reasons besides genuinely wanting to be with that person out of love and desire.
4. Talk about all the incredible and fun adventures you've had with girls over the years. And how much you love it.

Interesting. Can you flesh this out a bit more - how would you communicate you're a fun laid back loving sexual guy that goes with the flow?

 

[Velasco]

@Superlife

Sure.

To communicate that you're a fun laid back guy you'll want to do the opposite of what a boring serious guy would do: spike her buying temperature. Tease her, cold read her, make silly assumptions about her, disqualify her for retarded reasons. Stuff like that.

For the loving and sexual part. This can be communicated via frame 4. As well as sharing your knowledge about sex. Sharing what you know girls like in bed and why most guys suck in bed are my go-to's.

As for the going with the flow. Talk about times you were spontaneous. Doesn't have to be sexual. It's just gets the message across, "this guy's life philosophy is fuck it. Let's see what happens lol."

 

[Superlife]

@Superlife

Sure.

To communicate that you're a fun laid back guy you'll want to do the opposite of what a boring serious guy would do: spike her buying temperature. Tease her, cold read her, make silly assumptions about her, disqualify her for retarded reasons. Stuff like that.

For the loving and sexual part. This can be communicated via frame 4. As well as sharing your knowledge about sex. Sharing what you know girls like in bed and why most guys suck in bed are my go-to's.

As for the going with the flow. Talk about times you were spontaneous. Doesn't have to be sexual. It's just gets the message across, "this guy's life philosophy is fuck it. Let's see what happens lol."

Cool stuff. Thanks!

 

[DoWhatWorks]

OK so this is something I have started doing. I don't promise long term cuz I can't be that picky with who I date and I am not a religious wait to marriage kinda dude, never was, won't ever be. That said over the years I try not to do ons and the only real reason behind it is, most girls fear it.... Why? Cuz most guys do it that way and they get tired of no emotional connection and feel hollow, I can appreciate it can bring about apathy, exhaustion, and a question about yourself and wtf u r doing in life.
So that said I sell the in between.
I say to a girl ons are good in the sense that you should not be limited by what others think, long term is good in terms of becoming secure in yourself and your capacity to have real connections, but it's rare you find the one or something that easy... So...

I aim for a healthy middle ground
Because sex should be fantastic and if it is, why limit it to once when there is so much to explore, roles to play, fantasies to fulfill, dynamics to play with changes in mood to enjoy when you know someone
But at the same time, no one in this world lacks that other side to them, doubt, fear about the next step, heck even fearing death comes into it... So imo long term relationship promises are NAIVE
It is cool with me if you are for it, it's OK to be purposely naive to suit a purpose but I am up front
We probably won't dying in each other's arms, but we might enjoy some beautiful sunsets and create long lasting memories and explore all we have got
Ready for that kind of adventure

So yeah, this is just one way to frame things to a woman
Say that long term is naive for a few reasons, short term good but exhausting and doesn't max out the fun factors and a dash of emotion
And then you sell the sexual payoff of the middle length

The purpose of this frame is to bulldoze through ons asd and to crush the soul of her fear of commitment
It's logical and emotionally powerful
I am finding it useful

I play with it like well I like to know you enough that I can give you a cool nick name
That's my standard a girl to be badass enough for me to go with her and knight her with a badass name
Forcing me to aim high but nooot unrealistically so

Took me a while to figure this one out
Dunno whether to be proud or to face-palm, but either way now it's yours too

Really like this and you've done a great job of articulating thoughts that have been floating around my head recently.

From what I've seen girls only get exposure to the two extremes. One night studs who lack emotion/depth and don't see them again despite them being very attractive or overly emotional clingy guys who they grow tired of.

The middle ground is rare and refreshing for them.

Funny thing is I don't even say this to them for game I genuinely mean it. MLTR really does give you all the pros of a relationship without any of the drama. Girls also seem to be super nice when they can sense there's competition.

Sadly though for me the middle ground doesn't appear to last more than 6 months before they want a monogamous boyfriend.

Any thoughts and guidance from anyone on extending this?

Definitely another mountain for me to conquer and work out.

 

[naturalmikey]

yeah women love the honesty. i just always say i’m looking for connection and someone i enjoy but nothing serious. coincidentally that’s what most modern western women under 26-28ish want.

 

[naturalmikey]

@Superlife

Sure.

To communicate that you're a fun laid back guy you'll want to do the opposite of what a boring serious guy would do: spike her buying temperature. Tease her, cold read her, make silly assumptions about her, disqualify her for retarded reasons. Stuff like that.

For the loving and sexual part. This can be communicated via frame 4. As well as sharing your knowledge about sex. Sharing what you know girls like in bed and why most guys suck in bed are my go-to's.

As for the going with the flow. Talk about times you were spontaneous. Doesn't have to be sexual. It's just gets the message across, "this guy's life philosophy is fuck it. Let's see what happens lol."

one of my favorite swinggcat cold reads is

“i can tell sometimes you get really caught up in the emotions of the moment, but before you can go with your emotions you have to logically justify it in your head. and i know the times your the happiest is when you can justify and act in those emotions” that’s not verbatim it’s just the version i use and it is straight fire. he has some many good cold reads that when you through them out there are pure chick crack

 

[Cody Lyans]

@Grand Pooba

The way I see it there are 4 frames you'll want to convey to sell an MLR to a girl you just met:

1. You are not a serious person. instead just a fun laid back loving sexual guy that goes with the flow.
2. You are not a fan of One Night Stands. Because to you they are meaningless and empty. And stress how you only want to sleep with girls who have strong chemistry with and will want to see again. Even if its the first night you meet.
3. Talk about your views and dislike of marriage. Laugh about it. Point out how miserable people are that are forced to be in relationships they no longer want to be in, but stay together for other reasons besides genuinely wanting to be with that person out of love and desire.
4. Talk about all the incredible and fun adventures you've had with girls over the years. And how much you love it.

Yes mostly this but with a few tweaks

1) don't only frame it as you are laid back, frame it strongly, that even if you weren't laid back, it still is the best way
2) almost exactly what you said but add that you can't promise it all even with girls you want to meet again and again
3) instead of marriage talk OLD AGE, and how you want to be able to keep your life options, as we don't know what can happen a year from now especially when pushing to be a successful person. You can talk about people who are fifty who are with high school sweethearts and say... Ayyy....
4) yes, talk about successes but not fun as it can be too coded for sex sometimes. Not a bad thing just player boxes you a bit. Which has its uses. I describe successes that aren't mine, celebs who are together a couple years etc

The idea is to make it clear you are into relationships for sex, lifestyle, coolness, and fairness with a partner
Not for romantic hangups from movies u watched as a kid, or for notches like some guy in the club.

The frame separates you from both player and nice guy, and relates directly to how most women set it up themselves subconsciously

It's less punchy than the more player version of Velasco here
But is more likely to last six months or so,even with girls that usually make demands or cut and leave choices at the three month mark

 

[Conquistador]

bump

This was a glorious read.

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

bump

This was a glorious read.

Nice bump

Handles some of the issues of that objection thread

What do you think of this? @Skills @Teevster @TomInHo

 

[TomInHo]

Nice bump

Handles some of the issues of that objection thread

What do you think of this? @Skills @Teevster @TomInHo

Oh Yeah! I do this fo sho

Like others have mentioned girls are used to guys being in 2 extremes

1) Hardcore Player - Only cares about sex and notches... they can be fun at first but girls get tired of it and seek situations that have more depth
2) Hardcore Providers - Dudes that want marriage kids and something serious... these guys can be Alpha or Beta but the mindset is the same

It's quite funny because if you pay attention to how women date they tend to go through periods were they alternate between the 2. When they want fun and sex they go for players. When they are tired of feeling used they go for Providers

But it's very rare for a woman to meet a guy that's right in the middle. One that is attractive, sexual, caring, dominant, non-needy, open to building meaningful relationships but not necessarily goal focused on marriage

Not sure what to call it but lets go with... Romantic Player

That's usually the frame I go for and it has very wide appeal plus it's easier to calibrate. For example if you meet a girl and she is obviously just looking for some D, you can lean a little more playerish but with sprinkles of romance. And if she is provider hunting you can lean a bit more romance with sprinkles of player so she keeps her expectations in check

Also noticed how some guys mentioned that's it hard to keep things going past 6 months and thats true to a point. Because a major mistake guys make is thinking you need only one frame and then you stick to it like a robot

But relationships are fluid and women needs change overtime. With calibration you can keep things going longer by paying attention to what vibe the girl needs at the time

Of course though nothing lasts forever and eventually one or both you will want something different, but something I've noticed with this type of frame is that women circle back to you more often for another round of adventure when they get bored of dealing with predictable players and providers

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

Oh Yeah! I do this fo sho

Like others have mentioned girls are used to guys being in 2 extremes

1) Hardcore Player - Only cares about sex and notches... they can be fun at first but girls get tired of it and seek situations that have more depth
2) Hardcore Providers - Dudes that want marriage kids and something serious... these guys can be Alpha or Beta but the mindset is the same

It's quite funny because if you pay attention to how women date they tend to go through periods were they alternate between the 2. When they want fun and sex they go for players. When they are tired of feeling used they go for Providers

But it's very rare for a woman to meet a guy that's right in the middle. One that is attractive, sexual, caring, dominant, non-needy, open to building meaningful relationships but not necessarily goal focused on marriage

Not sure what to call it but lets go with... Romantic Player

That's usually the frame I go for and it has very wide appeal plus it's easier to calibrate. For example if you meet a girl and she is obviously just looking for some D, you can lean a little more playerish but with sprinkles of romance. And if she is provider hunting you can lean a bit more romance with sprinkles of player so she keeps her expectations in check

Also noticed how some guys mentioned that's it hard to keep things going past 6 months and thats true to a point. Because a major mistake guys make is thinking you need only one frame and then you stick to it like a robot

But relationships are fluid and women needs change overtime. With calibration you can keep things going longer by paying attention to what vibe the girl needs at the time

Of course though nothing lasts forever and eventually one or both you will want something different, but something I've noticed with this type of frame is that women circle back to you more often for another round of adventure when they get bored of dealing with predictable players and providers

Well said.


Sure I've definitely noticed a pattern in girls dating choices

When it comes to knowing what a girl is looking for (D or provider) i basically just rely on intuition and it works most of the time.

Are there signs, words etc you look out for to differentiate between the two?

 

[Conquistador]

I did this topic/gambit (totally improv, not canned) in a 3-person meeting with a Euro girl, casually when asking how dating works for intl students, and she was like “I’d be so down for that” in a lowkey tone.
We’re doing critical time sensitive work rn so I don’t wanna risk disrupting that, but we’ll see where things go…

 

[Conquistador]

(Actually 30+ women are harder, they always want guys to be “serious”)

There are girls with whom I can connect very easily, but she obviously isn’t one of them.

I went and put myself in her shoes and I can see why she’s kinda trying to put me on ice. For all my attractive qualities, I’m a bit young and relatively naive for her, and I also haven’t shown more than mere interest so she might be questioning her desirability.

Ok so how do I set this balanced medium-term frame with hard-headed older girls who have strong frames of “serious applicants only”?

I have a feeling plenty of them would jump at it, but getting past those frames from the baggage girls like that carry (“men [esp young ones] only want one thing” etc) is not simple.

I’d prefer to get some advice *before* trying it in the field as I’d rather not learn the hard way from making mistakes with another string of older girls for the next few months.