FR She called me for second date

[Sam]

Hello gentlemen,

This is a new one for me and I would like to share it with you. Maybe you have similar experiences and have a better idea than me.

A week ago, I went to a first date with a new woman. We ended up to my place and after some time I made out with her passionately twice. She resisted for sex, we left my place, and I gave her a lift to her house. She kissed me passionately, I told her I enjoyed her company, she reciprocated the comment and we said good night.

Three days later, I texted her for coffee and she did not reply. When I was about to delete her number, she called me on her own volition a few days later and asked me out for coffee. When we met, she kissed me on the cheek (!) and she sat opposite to me (!). I invited her to sit next to me. She said she felt more comfortable sitting opposite. She also mentioned I was a bit "blatant" with her the first time. At the end, I tried to kiss her goodbye with a small kiss on the mouth and she turned her cheek (!). I showed my surprise and she felt it. She justified herself simply by saying "not in public". Overall, I didn't like it. First time happening to me. Usually, I have "make it or break it" experiences with women. No setbacks.

What do you think? Should I delete her and move on? What does she want?

 

[NarrowJ]

Hey Sam,

Here are the important parts:

We ended up to my place and after some time I made out with her passionately twice. She resisted for sex, we left my place, and I gave her a lift to her house.

She said she felt more comfortable sitting opposite. She also mentioned I was a bit "blatant" with her the first time. At the end, I tried to kiss her goodbye with a small kiss on the mouth and she turned her cheek (!). I showed my surprise and she felt it. She justified herself simply by saying "not in public".

Because she was able to resist sex with you, she now feels comfortable keeping you at "arm's length". Also, the bolded part is something you should never let happen. She knows her resistance effects you, and that just confirms to her that she has full control of things.

You need to get this girl alone, break her resistance, and have sex with her. Get her over to your place for dinner or a movie or something, pronto.


NJ

 

[Sam]

Thank you, for your input.

My own appetite for her is now almost lost. I think I will just go for another girl without dealing with her any more.

Maybe my only chance to get control back is to disappear.

 

[Laowai]

Dude, why are you being so reactive? Why are you so willing to crash and burn a potential lay?

What happened exactly when she resisted sex?

Why did you want to delete her phone number and move on so soon, just because she didnt reply to you fast enough to your liking?

At the cafe she is uncomfortable because you're pushing too hard instead of just being chilled and building more comfort.

Your "make it or break it" attitude will not help you at all and will only set you up for future frustrations. I know this because I had to date countless of girls before I realized this, and then it was only because other people pointed it out to me.

Instead.... learn to be flexible and more smooth. There is no need for breaking it if you can bend it.

Don't delete her number. You can still learn something from this by reconnecting with her.

 

[Sam]

Your comment was very accurate. I recognize what you said fully. Don't you think, however, that we should "next" women who try to move the process backwards?

Don't you become friend-zoned, if you accept moving backwards? On first date, we made out at my place. How could I accept sitting opposite to her and chat like nothing happened on the second date? Somehow she wanted to come "even". She wanted to go on her terms. Should you go for it?

 

[Laowai]

"Nexting" women will most of the time lead you to not bang them. Instead, try to see it as a learning experience all the way through. You can still turn the tables if you try. Try to salvage as much experience as you can from pick-ups that seem to be going down the drain, and you might still be surprised. This will give you more reference points for future situations. That's why I don't advocate "nexting" indiscriminately.

It's understandable that you feel confused and frustrated that she's moving one step back at the cafe, I would too. But I would also try to figure out why, what her motives could be for doing so, which is smth I might be able to apply another time.

In some situations, if you don't go on her terms (at least to begin with) then you might end up not going anywhere at all. And if that were acceptable to you, you wouldn't be writing FRs. So be a bit more flexible and you might still get rewarded.

 

[Sam]

Well, their motive for moving backwards is - in my case - their impression that they did something more than what they expected (i.e. Coming to my place from the first date). They feel "easy" after they leave my place, so they try to make things even by imposing their own tempo on future dates.

The reason why I write reports is my effort to reconcile ideas such as "move faster", "overcome her resistance on first date", "don't chase her", and still be "flexible".

Again, thank you for your spot on comments

 

[Laowai]

Yeah, I guess you're right about them feeling some kind of buyer's remorse. In that case you must make sure to qualify them better when you're experiencing those situations.

 

[NarrowJ]

Sam,

A few months ago I was experiencing buyer's remorse quite often. I'd meet a girl, break her resistance, and take her to bed, only for her to end up feeling guilty about the act and have feelings of spite toward me.

My problem was what Laowai is talking about here. I was not generating good compliance momentum, which means that you are not using compliance tests correctly (you're either moving TOO fast through the compliance ladder, or you're not using compliance tests much or at all). Some girls will become receptive to you leading them and touching them more quickly than others, depending on a few factors (what they want from you - lover vs bf, her energy level, and the environment - daytime vs club). So how fast you can move is all about her comfort level. Yes, you can still move ultra-fast with girls and navigate the compliance ladder swiftly, and they'll go along with it, but not necessarily feel fully comfortable with you. And they'll resent you as if you are some no-good trickster that conned them into sleeping with you.

Conversely, if you can read your girl well and you know where her compliance threshold is and navigate it accordingly, you'll be able to get her threshold to a high enough level that she will go to bed with you because she feels comfortable doing so and not simply because you're pushing and pushing.

Now, all that being said, my earlier advice still rings true. You do want to sleep with her quickly, but you need to use compliance tests if you want to get her to move more at your speed.


NJ

 

[Sam]

Gentelemen,

This is my update with her:

I met her in total in 4 dates. During the first 3 ones, I noticed that when the bill for the drinks came she just wouldn't make the typical lady-like move to touch her wallet. So, on the 4th date I decided to test her. I signaled the waitress to come and I asked her what I owe her for my drink. The waitress replied accordingly and I paid my share only. The girl played it indifferent. I said: "Shall we go?", she says: "Yes", I say: "Your drink you know...I paid mine". She asked with almost disgust "You paid yours?", I said: "Exactly, I will wait for you outside".

Long story short: We barely said goodnight and then I went out of the radar for a week. I could not believe that she would risk giving the impression of a "slut who wants to get paid constantly", and I tried to surprise her romantically by appearing at the end of her shift to discuss with her. What I dealt with was impossible to comprehend; she blatantly defended her attitude and claimed that "it is a man's duty to pay for drinks if he is a gentleman". I replied with "So, you are looking for a provider who would buy out your company?". She said "When it comes to going out it is a man's duty to take care of things. You made me feel ashamed in front of the waitress and if we disagree on that then there is no point" etc

Of course, I cut her off now, but what would you make out of it? How do you deal with a woman who just doesn't make the move to pay her share?

 

[Franco]

Sam,

The waitress replied accordingly and I paid my share only. The girl played it indifferent. I said: "Shall we go?", she says: "Yes", I say: "Your drink you know...I paid mine". She asked with almost disgust "You paid yours?", I said: "Exactly, I will wait for you outside".

I'm not sure I would have handled it this way. It would have been better to bring this up at the beginning of the date and asked her if you could split the bill. Waiting until the end of the date and then acting like she's supposed to pay her share after you've been paying for the past three dates is going to catch her off guard (because you've set the expectation that you pay for dates).

What I dealt with was impossible to comprehend; she blatantly defended her attitude and claimed that "it is a man's duty to pay for drinks if he is a gentleman".

After four dates, this is baloney. It sounds like she's old-fashioned and prude. It's probably not the type of girl you would want to be spending time with anyway, so at least it makes it easy for you to move on. But next time, do try to bring up the bill beforehand and then see how she reacts. Waiting until the end after you've been paying for every date is a surefire way to get a negative response out of her since you are essentially "trapping" her with the bill. If you bring it up beforehand, and she still gets upset, then you can just leave the date right then and there without having to waste either of each other's money or time.

- Franco

 

[Sam]

Thank you, Franco, for your rapid reaction.

Mind you, she was a 24-year-old hot woman who has worked as PR in night clubs and as barwoman. She was not at all prude, but she had the following contradiction in her character: dominant, testy or plain rude in her ways and at the same time not independent at all when it came to money and expenses. "Proud" on the surface, but of poor, as it seems, self-esteem, as she considered paying a man's duty.

This combination of "hot with an attitude" is my current sticking point. It seems these girls shake my emotions and I need to learn how to deal with them.