- Joined
- Apr 9, 2024
- Messages
- 40
- ok, 3:15 it is
- And then you’ll say “next week” again
Or maybe I should have responded,
- Maybe this time I’ll cancel on you
“Hey, Tryst, what do you think about… like, enforcing your boundaries on girls. Like when she talks over me when I’m trying to qualify her, saying ‘Hey. I feel like you keep interrupting me. I really don’t think it’s gonna work out if you can’t let me finish.”
---
Two different friends recently asked me for advice in two different scenarios. The two situations look totally different – one is reorganising a date with a girl who cancelled last time, the other pertains to demonstrating value by having strong boundaries.
Both of the problems their thinking stem from the same root cause, and that is actually caring about her behaviour. Both of them have met some girl, and are actually letting her behaviour affect their mental/emotional state, and this shows in the responses they consider.
A girl does not want a guy who cares.
Or more precisely, a girl does not want a guy who cares when she displays a lack of interest in the advancement of the relationship. This is received knowledge in the pickup community, but let’s take a closer look.
If you care more about the relationship than she does, it is because she is more important to you than you are to her; tautologically, she is higher value than you. And so of course, she loses attraction to you. The idealistic perfectly high value guy never has a girl care less about the relationship than he, and so any admittance that you care more than her is a loss of value for you. Girls will try to frame you as chasing by IoDing you, and then acting as if you care, and thereby destroy your value in their eyes. The only way to not lose value in this situation is to act as if you didn’t even realise you were IoDed.
If she shows a lack of interest in the advancement of the relationship, it’s (usually, but not always) because she doesn’t really care about it that much. So, then, is you texting her asking to commit more, or in person giving the vibe that you really are a nice guy who cares for her and wants her around going to make you seem more attractive to her? Or less?
She is showing you that the relationship does not exist so much on her end, as it does your end. You’re taking something chill and relaxed, and fun, and making it a big deal. You are projecting things that do not exist onto the relationship. It is unhealthy.
I'm struggling right now with two girls. Both seem into me, but are leaving me on delivered for days at a time. Sometimes I get bored, or lonely, and feel like messaging something, asking for more investment, making a joke about their poor responses, calling them out, acknowledging their poor responses in any way. But all this would do is reveal that I care more than they do, reveal that I'm chasing. They aren't interested enough to want to put that investment in; it's simply no big deal to them. And so it must be no big deal to me. Because they're not interested enough, they don't even realise they're not putting that investment in - like I don't even consider texting the girls I don't really care about.
These are two girls that, when I see them, we have a great time together. It’s fun, and chilled. Me even caring about the fact that they aren’t texting me only comes from me unhealthily projecting an entire relationship which doesn’t exist onto us. There’s a girl right now whom I sleep with on occasion. She gives me a place to sleep in a city I like to go out in. We have a nice time together, and sleep together, and that’s okay. But I can feel she wants more, that, by inviting me on all these date-like activities, she’s projecting more onto us than really exists, instead of just sitting back and enjoying what does really exist.
As the relationship progresses, of course, you ought to demonstrate more and more investment in her. As the vibe builds between you and she shows you more and more that she cares for you and is invested in you (by complying – compliance is an expression of her investment), you also show her that you are invested in her (and therefore give her compliance.) But when she shows a willingness to let that vibe lessen or die (by giving you any sort of IoD – she might cancel on your day2, or begin to interrupt you consistently) you do the same. It is exactly when she shows that she doesn’t care that you must show you don’t care, and exactly when she shows she cares, that you must show you care.
When she cares for you, that is when she wants you to care, and showing a lack of desire to build the vibe between you will actually make her stop trying to build the vibe. When she shows she doesn’t care if the vibe dies, then she no longer wants you to try to build the vibe. And so you show her you don’t mind if it dies either. I can’t quite word what I want to express, but it was elegant when I was pondering it yesterday. Maybe I'll clarify what I want to say in the comments.
So, the solutions to the opening examples? For the texts, simply pretend the cancellation/flake never happened. Internally, “Oh, shit – did we organise for that day? I almost forgot.”. She doesn’t want a guy who cares. She doesn’t want a guy who even gets cancelled on. The very fact that she cancelled on you makes you lose value in her eyes, because she assumes you care. The only way to not take the value hit is to make it feel like you didn’t even notice you were cancelled on. Then she loses value, and feels silly for thinking as she did. It is quite like a neg, in this way. (Also, if you call her on bad behaviour, you might have the moral highground, but she will feel bad, and she will feel bad because of what you did. Is this really going to help you in the seduction? Sometimes it might – sometimes a girl needs to be called out and boundaries enforced. Often it is not the best option.) This is a general rule for all IoDs, really. It simply doesn’t affect you, because you mostly didn’t notice, and if you didn’t notice… did she really reject you in the first place? If you comment on it in any way, it shows that you noticed, that you care.
For the girl who interrupts, if you try to enforce boundaries like that before you have even slept with her, the response you’ll get is, oh, um, okay – I have to go dance now… Why do you care if some random chick is interrupting you or not? You’re a cool, high value guy. You didn’t even consciously notice. You just… pull away, when girls aren’t giving you a fun time. My friend was projecting this whole entire relationship onto a girl he met 5 minutes ago, he was making it a big deal. Imagine if it was an ugly girl or annoying guy. He wouldn’t try to enforce his boundaries like some Andrew Tate alpha male; he’d just get bored and walk away.
Of course, we don’t really want to walk away from our target. Early in set when the girls are interrupting, you can neg them to show them that you deep down perceive your value as greater than theirs, and won’t tolerate interruptions, but you also don’t really care about them. From their perspective, you didn’t intentionally neg them because they interrupted you, which would be reactive (and a high value guy would have just walked away instead of reacting), but they feel that their bad behaviour is connected to a response from you which indicated that you don’t really care for them. Also note the common case where girls are interrupting out of high BT and excitement, rather than rudeness: you can leverage this by negging them in a teasey way. Later in set, you can just withdraw attention when a girl is being rude.
- Tryst
I loved her quite briefly,
And she loved me too;
The day she stopped loving,
I found someone new.
- And then you’ll say “next week” again
Or maybe I should have responded,
- Maybe this time I’ll cancel on you
“Hey, Tryst, what do you think about… like, enforcing your boundaries on girls. Like when she talks over me when I’m trying to qualify her, saying ‘Hey. I feel like you keep interrupting me. I really don’t think it’s gonna work out if you can’t let me finish.”
---
Two different friends recently asked me for advice in two different scenarios. The two situations look totally different – one is reorganising a date with a girl who cancelled last time, the other pertains to demonstrating value by having strong boundaries.
Both of the problems their thinking stem from the same root cause, and that is actually caring about her behaviour. Both of them have met some girl, and are actually letting her behaviour affect their mental/emotional state, and this shows in the responses they consider.
A girl does not want a guy who cares.
Or more precisely, a girl does not want a guy who cares when she displays a lack of interest in the advancement of the relationship. This is received knowledge in the pickup community, but let’s take a closer look.
If you care more about the relationship than she does, it is because she is more important to you than you are to her; tautologically, she is higher value than you. And so of course, she loses attraction to you. The idealistic perfectly high value guy never has a girl care less about the relationship than he, and so any admittance that you care more than her is a loss of value for you. Girls will try to frame you as chasing by IoDing you, and then acting as if you care, and thereby destroy your value in their eyes. The only way to not lose value in this situation is to act as if you didn’t even realise you were IoDed.
If she shows a lack of interest in the advancement of the relationship, it’s (usually, but not always) because she doesn’t really care about it that much. So, then, is you texting her asking to commit more, or in person giving the vibe that you really are a nice guy who cares for her and wants her around going to make you seem more attractive to her? Or less?
She is showing you that the relationship does not exist so much on her end, as it does your end. You’re taking something chill and relaxed, and fun, and making it a big deal. You are projecting things that do not exist onto the relationship. It is unhealthy.
I'm struggling right now with two girls. Both seem into me, but are leaving me on delivered for days at a time. Sometimes I get bored, or lonely, and feel like messaging something, asking for more investment, making a joke about their poor responses, calling them out, acknowledging their poor responses in any way. But all this would do is reveal that I care more than they do, reveal that I'm chasing. They aren't interested enough to want to put that investment in; it's simply no big deal to them. And so it must be no big deal to me. Because they're not interested enough, they don't even realise they're not putting that investment in - like I don't even consider texting the girls I don't really care about.
These are two girls that, when I see them, we have a great time together. It’s fun, and chilled. Me even caring about the fact that they aren’t texting me only comes from me unhealthily projecting an entire relationship which doesn’t exist onto us. There’s a girl right now whom I sleep with on occasion. She gives me a place to sleep in a city I like to go out in. We have a nice time together, and sleep together, and that’s okay. But I can feel she wants more, that, by inviting me on all these date-like activities, she’s projecting more onto us than really exists, instead of just sitting back and enjoying what does really exist.
As the relationship progresses, of course, you ought to demonstrate more and more investment in her. As the vibe builds between you and she shows you more and more that she cares for you and is invested in you (by complying – compliance is an expression of her investment), you also show her that you are invested in her (and therefore give her compliance.) But when she shows a willingness to let that vibe lessen or die (by giving you any sort of IoD – she might cancel on your day2, or begin to interrupt you consistently) you do the same. It is exactly when she shows that she doesn’t care that you must show you don’t care, and exactly when she shows she cares, that you must show you care.
When she cares for you, that is when she wants you to care, and showing a lack of desire to build the vibe between you will actually make her stop trying to build the vibe. When she shows she doesn’t care if the vibe dies, then she no longer wants you to try to build the vibe. And so you show her you don’t mind if it dies either. I can’t quite word what I want to express, but it was elegant when I was pondering it yesterday. Maybe I'll clarify what I want to say in the comments.
So, the solutions to the opening examples? For the texts, simply pretend the cancellation/flake never happened. Internally, “Oh, shit – did we organise for that day? I almost forgot.”. She doesn’t want a guy who cares. She doesn’t want a guy who even gets cancelled on. The very fact that she cancelled on you makes you lose value in her eyes, because she assumes you care. The only way to not take the value hit is to make it feel like you didn’t even notice you were cancelled on. Then she loses value, and feels silly for thinking as she did. It is quite like a neg, in this way. (Also, if you call her on bad behaviour, you might have the moral highground, but she will feel bad, and she will feel bad because of what you did. Is this really going to help you in the seduction? Sometimes it might – sometimes a girl needs to be called out and boundaries enforced. Often it is not the best option.) This is a general rule for all IoDs, really. It simply doesn’t affect you, because you mostly didn’t notice, and if you didn’t notice… did she really reject you in the first place? If you comment on it in any way, it shows that you noticed, that you care.
For the girl who interrupts, if you try to enforce boundaries like that before you have even slept with her, the response you’ll get is, oh, um, okay – I have to go dance now… Why do you care if some random chick is interrupting you or not? You’re a cool, high value guy. You didn’t even consciously notice. You just… pull away, when girls aren’t giving you a fun time. My friend was projecting this whole entire relationship onto a girl he met 5 minutes ago, he was making it a big deal. Imagine if it was an ugly girl or annoying guy. He wouldn’t try to enforce his boundaries like some Andrew Tate alpha male; he’d just get bored and walk away.
Of course, we don’t really want to walk away from our target. Early in set when the girls are interrupting, you can neg them to show them that you deep down perceive your value as greater than theirs, and won’t tolerate interruptions, but you also don’t really care about them. From their perspective, you didn’t intentionally neg them because they interrupted you, which would be reactive (and a high value guy would have just walked away instead of reacting), but they feel that their bad behaviour is connected to a response from you which indicated that you don’t really care for them. Also note the common case where girls are interrupting out of high BT and excitement, rather than rudeness: you can leverage this by negging them in a teasey way. Later in set, you can just withdraw attention when a girl is being rude.
- Tryst
I loved her quite briefly,
And she loved me too;
The day she stopped loving,
I found someone new.
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