Casual/FWB Sleeping with a girl in your circle

[johndoe]

Hi folks,

I have an FWB that I'm exclusive with. She's a lot younger than I am, and I initially proposed exclusivity to her because I didn't want to open ourselves up to the risk of STDs. She gladly accepted, and we've both been liking this arrangement for the past 8 months or so. Recently, she's off on a work trip, and won't be back for another 2 months. That (fortunately or unfortunately) got me up to some mischief.

There's a girl in my circle that's been giving me very overt signals. When my FWB was around, I didn't respond to her signals much, because I didn't want to deal with drama (and because my FWB comes along for these gatherings sometimes). But now that my FWB is away, I'm really tempted to escalate with this other girl, because she is really hot. I'm not sure if that is the best choice though, because I really like my FWB and I don't want to jeopardise that. If we hook up, there is a chance that this other girl may start sowing discord between me and my FWB.

Another option I'm thinking of is to just head out and hook up with other girl(s) until my FWB comes back. But I'm not sure if that will give me a guilty conscience -- I've never cheated before, and I feel like if I do, I will have to talk to my FWB about it eventually, and this will probably sink our exclusive deal, if she decides to continue seeing me.

So guys, would you:

1. Sleep with the other girl in the circle?
2. Find someone else to hook up with until the FWB comes back?

I recall reading an article that @Chase wrote some time ago about how he ran relationships where he got to sleep around while the other girl was exclusive and ok with it. I can't find that article, so I'll greatly appreciate it if anyone can point me to it!

 

[StrayDog]

The fact that you were the one to suggest exclusivity and the two of you have carried on this way for 8 months definitely sets a tricky precedent here. Also, the fact that both these girls are in the same social circle certainly complicates the matter. I don't really know the minute details that define the dynamics of these relationships (how often you see FWB, what sort of activities you do together, how invested she is in the relationship, and so on), so it is hard to offer advice about this particular scenario. I can offer this much though:

If I were running this, I would personally avoid being exclusive with a girl where
A: She didn't suggest the idea first
and B: I did not intend to aim for the long haul with her

I mean, what FWB type situation is exclusive, and for 8 months at that? You are afraid you will be cheating, didn't you say she is an FWB not your partner, or something like that? Sounds like maybe there is a lack of clarity as to what exactly the intention of this liaison happens to be.

Also, if I was gunning for a one-sided exclusivity arrangement (either explicitly or implicitly) I would personally aim for that from the jump rather than trying to introduce it once a strong precedent counter to that sort of arrangement has already been set. As we all know, it is a lot easier to set a precedent than it is to dial it back. Not saying it can't be done, but expect a good deal of friction in the process, and be prepared to scrap the whole relationship if it comes down to that. One-sided exclusivity is more of a long game kind of planning strategy than it is something that you just switch gears into, the moment she leaves town.

Suggesting one form of relationship ("Let's be exclusive") then switching gears into another ("one-sided monogamy please") has the potential to come across as a lack of clear leadership. If that is the case, she might start to really test you. I have been able to switch from monogamy to non-monogamy with a woman (back when that sort of thing interested me), and it ended up being relatively one sided (with me doing 95% of the dating outside our relationship), but this transition was easy to pull off because she was the one who pushed for exclusivity full aware the whole time it wasn't quite my bag (at the time). This made it easy to course correct, had I pushed for exclusivity in the first place I am not sure how it would have gone.

Ultimately my point here is to come with a bit more clarity from the jump and scenarios like this will be a whole lot easier to navigate.

I don't know that this is exactly the article you are thinking of but it definitely touches on the matter and has some insightful approaches

Relationship Models: Implicit vs Explicit, Single vs Multi-Partner

Being humans, our relationship desires don’t always fit with the culturally-prescribed model. So let’s explore the alternatives, and what to expect with each. In response to my article on Compartments for Harems, I received some interesting feedback that warrants an article. Michael Chief and I...

www.girlschase.com

This series of articles touch on it as well

How to Build a Harem, Pt 1: Queen Theory

In Part 1 of the harem series, we talk about Queen Theory: how women position themselves as long-term partners and jockey for roles and status. Having created a constantly evolving harem for the past three years running multi-dating relationships, as well as having dated some of these women for...

www.girlschase.com

 

[johndoe]

The fact that you were the one to suggest exclusivity and the two of you have carried on this way for 8 months definitely sets a tricky precedent here. Also, the fact that both these girls are in the same social circle certainly complicates the matter. I don't really know the minute details that define the dynamics of these relationships (how often you see FWB, what sort of activities you do together, how invested she is in the relationship, and so on), so it is hard to offer advice about this particular scenario. I can offer this much though:

If I were running this, I would personally avoid being exclusive with a girl where
A: She didn't suggest the idea first
and B: I did not intend to aim for the long haul with her

I mean, what FWB type situation is exclusive, and for 8 months at that? You are afraid you will be cheating, didn't you say she is an FWB not your partner, or something like that? Sounds like maybe there is a lack of clarity as to what exactly the intention of this liaison happens to be.

Also, if I was gunning for a one-sided exclusivity arrangement (either explicitly or implicitly) I would personally aim for that from the jump rather than trying to introduce it once a strong precedent counter to that sort of arrangement has already been set. As we all know, it is a lot easier to set a precedent than it is to dial it back. Not saying it can't be done, but expect a good deal of friction in the process, and be prepared to scrap the whole relationship if it comes down to that. One-sided exclusivity is more of a long game kind of planning strategy than it is something that you just switch gears into, the moment she leaves town.

Suggesting one form of relationship ("Let's be exclusive") then switching gears into another ("one-sided monogamy please") has the potential to come across as a lack of clear leadership. If that is the case, she might start to really test you. I have been able to switch from monogamy to non-monogamy with a woman (back when that sort of thing interested me), and it ended up being relatively one sided (with me doing 95% of the dating outside our relationship), but this transition was easy to pull off because she was the one who pushed for exclusivity full aware the whole time it wasn't quite my bag (at the time). This made it easy to course correct, had I pushed for exclusivity in the first place I am not sure how it would have gone.

Ultimately my point here is to come with a bit more clarity from the jump and scenarios like this will be a whole lot easier to navigate.

I don't know that this is exactly the article you are thinking of but it definitely touches on the matter and has some insightful approaches

Relationship Models: Implicit vs Explicit, Single vs Multi-Partner

Being humans, our relationship desires don’t always fit with the culturally-prescribed model. So let’s explore the alternatives, and what to expect with each. In response to my article on Compartments for Harems, I received some interesting feedback that warrants an article. Michael Chief and I...

www.girlschase.com

This series of articles touch on it as well

How to Build a Harem, Pt 1: Queen Theory

In Part 1 of the harem series, we talk about Queen Theory: how women position themselves as long-term partners and jockey for roles and status. Having created a constantly evolving harem for the past three years running multi-dating relationships, as well as having dated some of these women for...

www.girlschase.com

Hey StrayDog, thank you so much. Your reply was very thoughtful, and you've asked some questions that I really should be thinking about.

At that point, I asked for sexual exclusivity because I was coming off an STD scare which made me not want to mess around. I made it clear from the outset to my FWB that I wasn't looking to rush into another relationship. Even though she says she feels the same way (i.e. not looking for a relationship), she is sticking around because she sees us as having the potential to go somewhere. We both are just not very inclined towards making it "official".

My original plan was actually to have a talk with her before she left. It would have gone something like this:

1. You'll be gone for 2 months, and I don't want to go 2 months without sex.
2. Move the conversation towards opening things up when we are not in the same city.
3. We will be exclusive when we are in the same city.

But I never went ahead with it. Rationally, I thought that I just didn't want to ruin the moment when I was with her. But a part of it was me not wanting to bite the bullet with the issue.

My current train of thought is that if I do hook up, I will come clean with her if we get on the topic. But that is admittedly a scummy way of handling things, and that if I want to hook up, it would be better for me to talk through the issue with her first.

Sorry if I'm being longwinded. Writing things out like that helps me to organise my thoughts.

 

[Lover]

My current train of thought is that if I do hook up, I will come clean with her if we get on the topic. But that is admittedly a scummy way of handling things, and that if I want to hook up, it would be better for me to talk through the issue with her first.

You should tell her before you go hooking up with other girls. Your label (FWB) doesn't matter, only your agreement (exclusivity - de facto monogamy) does. Telling her after the fact is a violation of that agreement. If she didn't deserve a violation, don't do it.

Be upfront with her that you didn't know how you were going to feel about her being away. But now you're starting to feel temptation and you don't feel you can sit it out. You still cherish her, you will miss her and hope she gets a good trip. And if she's up for catching up when she gets back, you can figure it out. But you understand if she doesn't want to do this.

IMO this is the least shitty way to let her know now that things have dragged out this long. If you tell her, expect two outcomes: either she is in, or she is out. Yes, be ready for her to say no thanks.

Be unapologetic and self-respecting about your desires - but be respectful to her answer. Hope it makes sense

 

[StrayDog]

At that point, I asked for sexual exclusivity because I was coming off an STD scare which made me not want to mess around. I made it clear from the outset to my FWB that I wasn't looking to rush into another relationship.

I get your concern over std, but women don't tend to see relationships in this pragmatic sort of way. Things like exclusivity often come with certain implications to them, and carry more weight than such a practical notion. This is clearly evidenced by your following quote.

Even though she says she feels the same way (i.e. not looking for a relationship), she is sticking around because she sees us as having the potential to go somewhere.

Relationships are less about the label (FWB) and more about the reality of the dynamic. A women can be your "wife" but if she sleeping with half the neighborhood behind your back, she really isn't your "wife" at all. A woman can be your "fwb" but if you are exclusive, see each other rather frequently, do fun bond building activities together other than fucking (I don't know if this is the case here) and this goes on for 8 months, in her mind you are most likely occupying a space that is more akin to a boyfriend. Albeit one that she is not sure how much she can invest in, and she hasn't sought to make it official yet. Maybe this isn't the case though and she is "whatever" casual about it all. But it doesn't sound like that is entirely the case

We both are just not very inclined towards making it "official".

I am inclined to believe that she is following your lead on this here. My guess would be that she senses your lack of commitment and is feeling out how much she aught to invest in you. I bet that if you really ramped up the boyfriend behavior she would invest more (but also could push her away if not done well). This is just a guess, and also not what you are gunning for here anyway, but she has already thrown signals that she is vetting you for a more long term relationship. I could be off with the assessment. But that fact that she is most likely following your lead on how the dynamic plays out still stands

Expectations in relationships are all about precedent. Very crucial to manage this from the beginning (through actions, not words)

I agree with you that it probably would have been best to confront the issue in person before she left, as having some foresight about what lies ahead and addressing it before it gets there is an attractive leadership quality. You can't be afraid to rock the boat a bit when a moment calls for it. Timing is everything and putting off addressing important matters usually just complicates things, not make them better. That said, it is better late than never, and it would definitely be a dirty move to just go through with a hook up and tell her after the fact (as your agreement has been explicitly made to be exclusive). So (in my humble opinion) if your intention is to change the arangment you two have, it is probably be best to address the issue beforehand.

 

[johndoe]

@Lover @StrayDog thanks for the really thoughtful answers. Loved the way @Lover suggested to address the situation.

Another question. How would a frame like "if you're uncomfortable with it, I won't do it" sound? I'm thinking it isn't very nice because it puts the responsibility of the decision on her, and she really just follows my lead on a lot of things.

It's so ironic that whenever I'm single (i.e. not having sex), options become so limited. But once you start getting laid, it becomes so much easier to get more lays. If there is a God, he must be a cruel one.

 

[StrayDog]

Another question. How would a frame like "if you're uncomfortable with it, I won't do it" sound? I'm thinking it isn't very nice because it puts the responsibility of the decision on her, and she really just follows my lead on a lot of things.

I wouldn't frame it this way. It sets a frame of A: that before you even know how she feels you assume she should be uncomfortable with it. The goal is to frame it in a way that she will be comfortable with. B: That the conviction of your desires are so thin that if she is indeed uncomfortable with you they will dwindle as easily as a candle in the wind. In which case, why even bring it up in the first place?

It's more of a dynamic collaborative negotiation. Start by putting your position on the table "I really value our connection, and am also noticing I am having these desires that don't seem to subside" Frame things in a way that A: acknowledges that you really do value her, and be sure to highlight what exactly you value about your connection B: You are certain you need to explore other forms of relationship than exclusivity. Next gather information about how she feels "Sounds like you are concerned about such and such a thing" "What about this makes you uncomfortable?" "What excites you the most about the idea?." Then explore strategies and solutions together.

Here is the thing though, this sort of transition is much easier to pull off when you have already been seeding the idea for quite some time. Also, your current distance does not help. This would be a pretty big transition to pull off with two months apart. If you are really wanting this girl as your mains then there might be better strategies than dropping this now just cause there is one other girl getting at you (from fwb's social circle, nonetheless). even if she does agree to a new arrangement, she might be singing a very different tune when she gets back. Two months apart offers a lot of perspective. But who knows. You might stick the landing and she returns eagerly to your arms (and bed)

It's so ironic that whenever I'm single (i.e. not having sex), options become so limited. But once you start getting laid, it becomes so much easier to get more lays. If there is a God, he must be a cruel one.

Naw, he just wants you to up your game. The great mack in the sky

edit: Not sure how much this applies but it might offer some considerations for the future

Why I Quit Doing Friends with Benefits

Friends with benefits (FWB) is a fun, no-strings way to have sex. So why give it up? There are 6 good reasons to, including laziness, distraction, and getting stuck with the wrong girl. A little while back, I wrote a couple of posts on friends with benefits (FWB): The 4 Stages of Every Friends...

www.girlschase.com