What's new

Starting out Making Money Online

Estate

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
Messages
798
Hey guys,

Off topic for GC but wondering if anyone out there has experience with this?

I have some ideas rattling around my head and I've done some research but it's very difficult to tell what advice is legit, what works, what doesn't, how long things take, etc...

Some ideas:
- Freelancing. I have a lot of programming skills. I see a few websites offering jobs. The thing I'm unsure of is that it requires a LOT of hours for very little pay. At least that's what I see. People looking for large new social media sites, e-commerce sites, etc. All things I can do but obviously time-consuming. 2 weeks work for $100 or less seems scammy. Is it really possible?

- Blogging. For this one the idea is simple. Provide topics which people want to know about... then monetize it. But, hmmm...
Even if you drive customers to your site. keeping them coming back obviously requires hard work... no problem there. But I see lots of generic ideas...
i.e. AdSense, etc... do people ever really actually click or buy from ads? I see people claim they make thousands yet I feel I wouldn't even cover hosting costs. I'm confused.

- Writing for existing sources. The problem is see is marketing myself. I don't have an "in" in this world.

Ok, those are 3 ideas. I'm just interested in learning in this space... but I'm trying to do research. I guess I feel I have SOME skills which could be useful to people but I know nothing about marketing myself, a site, a product, etc...
My concern obviously is putting a lot of time or money into something I really don't know what I'm doing... instead of eventually earning money, it will be lost money and time.
It's actually overwhelming... where does one start out?
 

NarrowJ

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
1,275
I've had this same dilemma for quite some time now. I can develop a website... and I have had some cool ideas... but what the hell do you do with it after it's built, to make money? You can make some cash off of advertisement, but it depends. Do you have an audience/membership in the thousands?

I work for a company that does custom web development, and we've had people come to us and spend their retirement/inheritance/nest egg on a website because they think they're going to turn it into more money. But, it just sits there because they don't have the additional money to spend on marketing or because they refuse to put any effort into getting anything going by word of mouth (trade-shows, etcetera).

Honestly, I think you have to develop a product of some sort and sell it. I know a guy who has two websites that sell advanced training programs for cyclists. He charges anywhere from $200 to $1000 a pop for these training guides/programs, and he sells tons of them. I can't speak to the quality of the guides or programs, since I have never read one (cycling doesn't interest me). But, the sites just sit there and make money.

So, I guess, find a niche that you are already familiar with (and can rapidly increase your knowledge in too), and sell related products or services. That is what I understand to be the golden opportunity of the web. Somebody else may have more/better experience or knowledge than I do. If so, I'd love to see it because I'm interested in this as well.

NJ
 
you miss 100% of the shots you don't take

Oskar

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
182
Estate said:
- Freelancing. I have a lot of programming skills. I see a few websites offering jobs. The thing I'm unsure of is that it requires a LOT of hours for very little pay. At least that's what I see. People looking for large new social media sites, e-commerce sites, etc. All things I can do but obviously time-consuming. 2 weeks work for $100 or less seems scammy. Is it really possible?

The trick with freelancing seems to be to market yourself to the right people. Yeah, most of the ads and people you encounter are going to be looking for jesters (people who will invest a lot of time and energy with low returns), but there are clients out there looking for high class/quality freelancers, it's just a matter of marketing yourself to them. I write articles and edit both books and articles freelance and I imagine it's a pretty similar type of market to the programming one based on what I've seen.

The best clients for getting started seem to be the people who are trying to achieve a dream of theirs and are wealthy, not people who are still trying to make their fortune. I started out by offering my services for a relative bargain to a public speaker who needed a short ebook about how to tell compelling stories (with it he would get into the upper echelons of a ritzy speakers' organization in the U.S.), and then from there I found a guy who'd been working for a decade to build a company spreading awareness about automobile accidents who needed a website, content, and an editor for a missive to the Prime Minister. And from there I was able to target higher quality clients. I definitely screen clients hard now, almost as hard as I do girls on dating sites, simply because there're so many other options for them to choose from (like guys from the Philippines who will do a decent enough job for four times less than you'd even consider). I've been at this freelance thing now for about 6 months now (on oDesk) and have had about 6 different gigs (two of those ongoing), pricing between 17-30 dollars an hour, and hopefully moving those numbers up once I get some more positive references. It took a few months before things took off, but now things are moving a lot more smoothly and my profile looks very professional with some great references. I have also been lucky in landing projects on subjects that interest me, which always makes things easier and more enjoyable. The only trouble I'm having right now is getting enough hours to meet my self-imposed weekly quota (it's a temperamental style of work -- some weeks I don't work at all, other weeks it's like a full-time job).

So yeah, besides oDesk and Elance, I know that a lot of professions also have forums where job listings can be formally or informally listed as well. Warrior Forum is a good one for copywriters, for example, though I don't know any for programming, but they probably aren't that hard to find.

Besides freelancing, another way you can get by on the web is by diving into it's recesses and partaking in an anonymous internet economy. I'm sure you, as a programmer, have explored the deeper parts of the web, and know that there are actually a lot of markets that still have solid demand and little overhead down there. Markets of interest might include anonymous web hosting, re-mail services, or certain electronics. For example, many people are too lazy to build a MythTV box, but personally, I sure as hell would buy one of those over a crippled and ad-infested TiVo subscription service any day. If I watched TV, that is. And of course, there also are quite a few lucrative, yet morally gray markets down there as well (not to mention black ones).

Yet another thing you could try is mining bitcoin. If you're willing to invest a few thousand in a quality miner, you could be making, if the market doesn't suddenly crash, about $400 a month. I haven't tried this one out, but my brother has been bugging me to invest in one with him recently, though I want to do more research before I start throwing my money around, as it sounds too good to be true to me. so there's probably some other hidden costs.

NarrowJ said:
So, I guess, find a niche that you are already familiar with (and can rapidly increase your knowledge in too), and sell related products or services. That is what I understand to be the golden opportunity of the web. Somebody else may have more/better experience or knowledge than I do. If so, I'd love to see it because I'm interested in this as well.

NJ

Yeah, this is generally the best long term strategy I've seen as well. The ideas I just outlined are more short term strategies for treading water financially. My personal strategy right now is to live off of freelancing, another online business, and some work at local bookstores around my community every once in a while (mainly to get out of the house and pick-up girls) while I build up skills, a website, and high quality products to sell later on down the road.

Estate said:
where does one start out?

The steps I took for freelancing were 1) Write a solid yet minimal profile on oDesk (or wherever), a killer cover letter, and start targeting people (not businesses), offering them a good bargain as an incentive to take on someone without any references. At this stage less is more, as people may then just assume you are awesome; a wild card. "Assuming attraction" also is useful here. "Anyone who asks for so much / is so confident must be worth it", is the typical rationalization. 2) Do a fantastic job for them. 3) Do another fantastic job for another client. 4) Add rates to your profile for your services, putting the work you just did in the range of the cheapest type of work you do. 5) Refine and repeat.

Ciao,
Oskar
 

Chase

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
6,037
Estate (and anyone else interested)-

If you pick one skill to start building for making money online from a writing perspective, I'd suggest copywriting. Take a few basic courses (anything by Michael Masterson or Gary Halbert is good) and learn a bit, and then get on a freelancing site (I hire on oDesk, and there's plenty of work on there for skilled people; other sites are Guru.com, Elance.com, Freelancer.com, etc.) and start bidding low on jobs doing that just to get experience.

After you're a decent copywriter, you can freelance and command very high rates (the best guys charge $200 to $300+ per hour), and you've got a skill set that enables you to launch your own products and build sales funnels that convert if you ever get tired of freelancing and just want a site you can set up that prints you money. And also once you're big enough and have your own client list, if you decide freelancing is the life for you, most of the biggest guys move off the outsourcing platforms and launch their own agencies where they hire people to come work for them, and you move from being the talent to the manager of a stable of talent.

Copywriting is typically the last thing you can outsource when you're running a business online, just because it's especially difficult to master and especially expensive to outsource, and if you want to get yourself learning something that's always going to be highly monetizeable and that gives you the greatest range of options down the road, copywriting is probably it. I'd rank it up there next to programming as a top skill to learn - you need programming if you want to build web apps that make lots of money (like Facebook, Google, Workday, Instagram, etc.); you need copywriting if you want to market the hell out of anything and everything you do (all successful businesses use copywriting, just like they all have coders, and lots of both). And with both professions you can make a killing as a freelancer, so easy money is always available at a moment's notice in a pinch.

Chase
 

Rage

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
473
http://my.copyblogger.com/type/ebooks/ has some great free ebooks on copywriting and content marketing.

Getting copywriting down for a site is crucial because it’s when someone looks at that first headline of an article or a youtube video or such, that their brain makes the decision that “yes this material may potentially be interesting/resourceful to me” or “no, sorry not interested”.

I found it particularly interesting when learning about it for the first time because I tend to be selective about what I read and was able to identify, then, for the first time “oh ok, this is why these articles written and spaced out in this format and written with these particular headlines caught my eye and got me to want to read them”.
 

NarrowJ

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
1,275
Chase said:
(I hire on oDesk, and there's plenty of work on there for skilled people; other sites are Guru.com, Elance.com, Freelancer.com, etc.)

I was looking at these this morning and oDesk and Elance seem like the better options. There's people on both of those sites with thousands of hours logged and asking anywhere up to $100 an hour. The other two seem to be a bunch of companies wanting you to work for peanuts. Or maybe I didn't spend enough time on them to get a good gist of how those sites work. I don't have the extra time to devote to freelancing, but it could be an attractive option for some.

I'm sure you could nab a couple smaller projects, do really well on them, and then possibly one or more of those companies would entrust you to take on larger-scope projects and you could actually make a nice living just doing freelance stuff for a handful of companies (assuming they're paying you something upwards of $40 per hour).

NJ
 

132

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
83
Okay I'm gonna give my 2 cents here, cause I've been asked by multiple people via Personal Messages. This is gonna be a bit long and I'm trying to write as little as possible. If I write in detail it'll take 50 pages..

Here's the first thing guys. You gotta think big if you want money.

Do you want to make 50 000$ per year or do you want to make 1-5 million $ per year?
Do you want to be average or a millionaire.


If you want the lots of money, you have to start thinking big. Is writing on elance and such, going to make you 1 million $ per year? No! Is having a blog like GC going to make you a million $. Probably not, especially since you'll need years to get it going.
So you have to think big-er that doing free-lance work.

Also you have to know the right niche. For example GC is a great blog, but it's limited as for earning potential. It's a limited niche. It's not mainstream and there aren't millions of people visiting it every day. There is the stigma in society about learning seduction and you won't see the media doing pieces on GC often. It's still somewhat of a smaller community.


Also consider the profit vs work done. For example I bet that those articles on GC take Chase hours if not a whole day to: think about the topic, research, write a draft, edit, fact check, proofread, SEO, interlink, read the comments and respond to them, visit the boards and write on threads, other stuff he has to do offline. I bet his working hours are crazy. And I assume his profit per day isn't more than 1000$ and maybe less(Idk it's just an assumption).

On the other hand take a youtuber like PewDiePie (the most subscribed youtuber with more than 27 million subscribers).He basically does game reviews-play throughs - 10min video of him playing some PC game or app-game. He uploads 1 or 2, 10 minute long videos per day. It takes him 30 minutes to shoot the video then 30-45 minutes to quickly cut and lightly edit it. He uploads it and most of his vids get 2-3 million views. From which he makes 20-25 000$ per day or more, since he also has a website selling stuff, and he gets paid by companies to do reviews of their games. The money he's made from youtube alone is 21 million $ and this was in December 2013. Now it's a couple of million more. And that's not counting the money he makes from selling his own stuff and getting paid to make a review.

Now compare the two working long hours and making less than 1000$ or working 2 hours and making 20-25 000$ or more per day.

Or the guy who created Flappy Bird - it took him 2 days to create and when it blew up in january it got 50 million downloads or more and started earning him 1.5 million $ per month from the ads in the app. And this is passive income - it takes 2 days work to create the app, a month or two of promoting it and getting lots of people to download it and then it's on autopilot - people play it and he makes money without doing anything.

Also compare how much does a normal programmer make and how much the owners of Facebook make, or the 2 guys who created Snapchat(which Facebook offered to buy for 3 billion$) Or a programmer might get paid 5000$ to create an iphone or Android app but the app can make 10 000$ per month.

What I'm saying is that working for someone else has less risk - you know you'll get paid, but also has a lot lower earning potential.


And I know what you think it's not easy to get millions of Youtube subscribers or get millions of downloads of your app. Or you can't even create an app. Or don't have an idea for a blog or youtube channel or app or game or anything. Well that's your problem - ideas don't come to you. You have to go and get them.
For example if you want ideas for apps - you go and download all the top free apps and start playing and see what they have in common or what makes them addictive like the app 2048. And you'll get ideas.

Or check out some of the coolest youtube channels some that I'm subscribed to are: pewdiepie, gametheory,vsause, buzzfeed,list25,Matthew Santoro,Grant Thompson, CrazyRussianHacker.smosh,
Also research most subscribed youtube channels. And if your vids are great,original and fun you'll start getting lots of subscribers and you'll start making money - you get between 3000$ and 7000$ per 1million views depending on your demographic, and where your viewer live.


About making apps - it's the same thing. Is the app going to be downloaded by millions of people? Or is it for some small niche. Mostly game apps are most popular and cheaper to make. And think about it being addictive. Also don't forget that the majority of players are kids or teens. The most people who download apps and games are between 10-18 years old. Also one thing the apps on iphone make more money from in-app purchases(buy a new weapon for 1$, etc) while Android apps make more from advertising. And btw if you release an app you make 1000000000% sure it's free to download. Free apps make more money because they can get tens of millions of downloads in a month since they are free and everybody will download it if it's cool looking. But if it's paid most people will never buy it. That's why the highest earning apps are all free with advertisements and in-app purchases. Free so lots of people can download, play and get hooked on them, and then sell them new weapons or extra lives.


If you have an idea for a social media website or sth like that. Well you can start working on it if you're a programmer and pitch to lots of angel investors, go to tech conferences, expos, etc to find funding if you don't have the money to finish it. Or if you have - you launch it. The this is still the same is it going to be used by millions of people or is it some smaller niched audience based.



If you have an idea of an invention/app/software/website/etc and you don't have the money. But you can create it you must try crowd funding. Basically kickstarter or indiegogo.
In a sentence the idea is that you put up a campaign and people start funding you so you can create your product. And most of the times you give them something in return, like the product when you create it. It's like people prepaying for your product so you have the money to develop it and start manufacturing.
There are campaigns that collect hundreds of thousands. And some of them are really stupid. Like I remember last summer this one campaign collected 150 000$ for a smartphone usb cable that was simply shorter than the average usb cable..

So go check indiegogo and kickstarter.



You can also write an ebook on a topic you know lots about. Like Chase writes about seduction, some people write about losing weight. etc. Or if you're talented you can write a horror ebook, or Fifty shades of Grey. You must put it on amazon kindle and sell a pdf on your website. The thing is again thing on a topic that can get millions of people to read it.



Here's where I disagree with Chase.

When he talked about learning to copy write. The number one skill to have is marketing - knowing how to get millions of people to buy your product. And that's the thing most people never learn. Also there is lots of useless advice out there - the only way to learn is by doing it.

Here's an example. You have a great idea for an app/game/invention/gadget/website. You don't have the skills to do it but you have the marketing abilities.
- you can create an indiegogo/kickstarter campaign and raise 100 000$ in 1 month
- you can find programmers to create the website
- app developer to create the app
- video editors and photoshop experts to create the pics and videos
- hire someone to write the press release
- hire an engineer to create your product

- and you on the other hand have the skill to get the initial funding
- create a buzz about your product
- get millions of people to buy it
- make it famous
- get investors if you need them
- and you get the big money

Or you can find programmers and engineers who are your friends, students in the same university as you, coworkers. So you give them a % instead of money if you have nothing in the beginning.

And it usually depends on the marketing how much a product earns. Imagine if GC was read by 10 million people per month. Do you think that it'll make more $ than if it's read by 100-200 people per month?


And it costs you absolutely nothing to write an ebook and put it on amazon kindle store, create an app game (if you can program in objective c(iphone) or java (Android),okay it costs 25$ one time only to be able to upload as much apps as you want on google playstore, and it costs 99$ per year for the same thing on the apple app store, but after that it costs you nothing for the development) It costs 12$ for a years worth of hosting at godaddy with unlimited bandwidth and it takes 1 minute to install wordpress and start a blog. It cost nothing to shoot videos for youtube. It costs nothing to create an indiegogo/kickstarter campaign and start collecting money to create your product. It costs nothing to think about and design a product.


So it's not that it takes lots of money or skill to do it. It's that most people have no idea how to get massive traffic to their product.

That's why I've had so much success - because I know how to get millions of people to download my apps/ software and buy the products.




Also once you have a product and get lots of people to come to it - you must learn how to convert those people from spectators to buyers. Meaning when a person sees your ebook - he buys it. When someone checks out your app - they must download it, etc.

And most people spend time to become good at creating great content but know neither how to market it nor how to convert those people into buyers.

Here are some quick examples regarding GC.

Some things that would make GC make lots more money.

1) Chase must deep-dive the reads who come here for the first time. It's really impersonal GC. There should be his face on every page (and not that annoying pop-up cause pop-ups are always annoying and off-putting). Also the stories are always impersonal - "I've slept with lots of women" "I've seduced lots of women" etc. There are no details or proof of any kind. A person who visits for the 1st time has no way of knowing if this is true or total BS. And this hurts GC because those people write it off. Every story or every time you say you've been with lots of girls - you need to give lots of specifics (you can change her name) this is especially for the other writers who give way to vague of statements that they've bedded lots of women with absolutely no evidence to support that.

This also means shooting videos of Chase talking. This is what Gambler does and it's working for him. People watch the videos (me included) and you get used to the guys face. voice, you get to view him more as a human being. And a thing that bothers me about GC is that I never know if the article was actually written by Chase of he pays someone to do it, since I've found inconsistent information that doesn't match in different posts.

And every article can be summed up in a 3-4-5 minute video and uploaded to Youtube so people on Youtube can come by it view it and go to GC to read the full article. Plus it's easier to view a 5 min summed up video and share it with friends and on facebook, twitter,etc.
This will also deep dive the readers and get them to view Chase as more of a human being, rather than some lump or written text. People will trust him more and buy more, cause he's put himself out there. Everyone can write lies but if you put yourself and your face on videos and put them on youtube it signals that you should be trusted more.

Also talk about your story more maybe a really long "about me" so a person will get to know him better

2) Definitive call to action on every post! Things like "Share with your friends/coworkers and everyone you thing will benefit, on Facebook, twitter, etc" and "If you want more great information about abc.. go check out my ebook/couse (insert link)". This is a call to action that will make people buy more and share more. The call to action must be on every post at the end and maybe at the beginning.

3) Create a special program like "30 day program for beginners" or "How to get laid! From zero to sex in 30 days" - Just like the 14 day newbie challenge. It can be a full 80-100 page ebook that would take 1 week to write. And include lots of details. It can be sold for a low price of 5-10$ and include the basics of how to overcome approach anxiety and start approaching. This is to get newbies hooked and once they've started approaching you can tell them to now go and buy the other product that lays out the full process of seduction.

4) Make a better and easy to use affiliate program!!! You can make a super easy to use affiliate program (if you use e-junkie or sth else) so every guy can make money by simply telling other people. Affiliate marketing works like this. Say Chases ebook costs 50$, you get 25 or 20$ for every person you tell and who buys the ebook.
Here are lots of guys who wander how to make money! If you make it super easy for them and explain to them step by step how to do it(this must be done by an article that is pinned on the top of every single page, so every person who comes on GC will read it and can start getting people to buy the programs) - they can start bringing more people to GC and to buy the products.
If someone has lots of male friends/coworkers who can benefit he can persuade 10 people to buy them and make 250$ doing it. They can then go online and tell their facebook friends or twitter followers to come check it out and make money doing so.

And you explain this in a few articles and in your books and after every blog post - that everyone who reads GC can make 20-25$ for every person the refer and that buys the program.

5)Expand on topics - there should be weekly posts on weight loss (this will bring lots of new people). You can get someone to write 2 articles per week. Also weekly articles on making money and financial independence - GC must be about becoming a better man, not only picking up girls. I bet lots of the guys would love to read such articles. You can find someone to write them for cheap. More articles on other stuff like clothes, watches, some other manly skills. etc. Think like menshealth and askmen. This expands the readership a lot.

6)Create GC events. Like once every month organize gatherings with the guys from the forum to go to a bar or club. Or the guys who live in the same cities can meet up. How awesome would it be to meet with Chase, Franco and the other top guys on the forum! Or maybe just once a year like the under21convention or sth like that. The top 10 guys on the forum and others meet once a year for a few days. Talk, get to know each other, have a few speeches on some topics. And then party like there is no tomorrow during the nights.

7) Start a podcast and upload it on Itunes Once a week, choose a topic to talk about for 1 hour or 1.5 hours. Record it and post it on Itunes so people can download it for free and listen to it. And once you start getting lots of listeners it starts climbing the Itunes podcast charts and more people find out about GC.

WIth podcasting and youtube videos, press releases + some networking with other blogers/ news websites and twitter and facebook marketing GC can easily tripple it's readership and earnings in less than a year.


And then you can release some other product like an app that helps guys while out. Like having lots of phrases to approach a girl. Or the specific process to follow, so guys can check it out right before they approach. Or while the girl is in the bathroom he can check out what to do next. Then while she's getting her coat he can see what to do while taking her home. Then while at his place he can check out how to escalate while she's in the bathroom.



You get what I'm saying right? Always think about expanding to a broader audience, more products for them to buy. Most of the stuff I listed are free or really cheap to do and will bring in lots of more money.

You see how the marketing part is more important than creating great content? Cause lots of people can write and create great content, but they can't market it. And I learned how to do that. Writers and programmers are dime a dozen. But if you become the guy who can take their ideas and products and turn them into millions - they'll be chasing you and begging you to work with them and share the profits.

If you know how you can raise the money beforehand on indiegogo/kickstarter or get investors, you can have multiple people working on creating it, while you network and get more people to buy the product.





I can keep writing this for days. Everything I mentioned - I can talk about it for 10-20 pages. How to get 1 million youtube subscribers. How to get your apps downloaded millions of times. How to raise 100 000$ in funding on indiegogo and kickstarter. But it'll get way to long.




One final and most important advice: Don't think only about creating something useful. Don't think about what people need, create what people want! It can be total BS that is a money waster and time waster but if lots of people want it and are willing to buy it - you'll be rich.

Think about fast cars, jewelry, fast food, cigarettes, drugs, alcohol, stupid apps and games, stupid pointless youtube videos. No one need them but millions of people want them and pay for them. So think about creating something that people want not about what they need.



Ico

P.S. sorry for the spelling errors if there are any I don't have the time to spell check it.

BTW I'm helping my 15 year old brother make 1 million $ till the end of 2014. If you're interested I can write a post explaining exactly how he'll do that.
 

Big Daddy

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
707
Ico,

I liked reading your post, it opened up my perspective on a bunch of things. But could you deep dive in how can we learn to market our product the right way (what would you consider the best, fastest path to learning market, maybe author you read, things you did, etc.) if we don't have any prior marketing skills?

Also, I think GC isn't as big as you envision it because this isn't meant to be just some site on the manosphere where men would discuss about pointless topics and waste their time. It seems to me that he built GC because he truly wanted to help men live a better life - and I'll be deeply thankful for my entire life for this - and started making money to sustain the business, differently from AskMen. Even other seduction website - I won't visit them for anything as long as a couple of days, whereas I'm here for a very long stretch of time. Every time I'm here feels like productive time, while I mindlessly ignore anything that is pointed to anything remotely similar to AskMen. This is like the only place on the internet where I feel comfortable spending my time and energy exactly because of this "culture" he was able to built. But I won't discuss his business here. I'm guessing he knows what he's doing :)

I still want to learn about marketing, though! ;)

PS: I would love to read how your brother is going to become a millionaire as well.
 

Mr. oblivious

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Apr 13, 2014
Messages
285
i really like the Idea of
Start a podcast and upload it on Itunes Once a week, choose a topic to talk about for 1 hour or 1.5 hours. Record it and post it on Itunes so people can download it for free and listen to it. And once you start getting lots of listeners it starts climbing the Itunes podcast charts and more people find out about GC.

WIth podcasting and youtube videos, press releases + some networking with other blogers/ news websites and twitter and facebook marketing GC can easily tripple it's readership and earnings in less than a year.


And then you can release some other product like an app that helps guys while out. Like having lots of phrases to approach a girl. Or the specific process to follow, so guys can check it out right before they approach. Or while the girl is in the bathroom he can check out what to do next. Then while she's getting her coat he can see what to do while taking her home. Then while at his place he can check out how to escalate while she's in the bathroom.

With something like GC that would work really well
 

132

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
83
Big Daddy said:
Ico,

I liked reading your post, it opened up my perspective on a bunch of things. But could you deep dive in how can we learn to market our product the right way (what would you consider the best, fastest path to learning market, maybe author you read, things you did, etc.) if we don't have any prior marketing skills?

I still want to learn about marketing, though! ;)


Well that's the thing. There is lots of BS out there. Most of the advice is "create great content" "SEO your website/blog/posts" and wait for it. But here's the thing - for this you have to wait years and it still might not happen.


And the thing is that my strategy that I use every time - I've never seen it discussed.


In short think about what makes something really popular and fast? What makes some youtube video go viral? What makes an app go viral? What makes some indiegogo/kickstarter campaign raise 250 000$?

It's famous people talking about it. In other words creating a buzz about your product.
- Getting Youtubers with millions f subscribers to mention it/make a video about it
- Getting Viners with millions of followers to do a vine about it - and make it "a thing"
- Getting people with lots of twitter followers to tweet about it
- Getting facebook fan pages with lots of likes to talk about it
- Getting lots of blogs (in the same niche - if you have a tech gadget you get tech blogs) to write about it
- Getting news websites to write about it
- Getting famous people to talk about it on social media and off-line
- Getting news stations to talk about it
- Creating such a buzz that everyone shares with their friends/family/coworkers on facebook/twitter/youtube/pinterest/etc
- Getting it so hyped that everyone is talking about it, and people get shocked if someone hasn't heard of it, and putting social pressure on those people to go check it out



But the thing as I mentioned in my initial post is - your product must be mainstream! It must be something that people from ages 10 to 80 can use and talk about, men and women, single people and people in relationships, poor people and rich people, people from every race, ect (you catch my drift right?)


Of course I make it sound really simple and it isn't. It takes lots of planing, a great idea that can go viral. And lots of work it takes sending thousands of e-mails, messages, tweets, etc.
 

Big Daddy

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
707
Hmm, I think I got the idea. And how do you get those youtubers, viners and bloggers to talk about your products? You just email them in the hope that they'll see and talk about it? Do you offer an early version of your product to them? Do you pay them? (This one might be off if you're low on budget.)
 

132

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
83
Big Daddy said:
Hmm, I think I got the idea. And how do you get those youtubers, viners and bloggers to talk about your products? You just email them in the hope that they'll see and talk about it? Do you offer an early version of your product to them? Do you pay them? (This one might be off if you're low on budget.)


Well those people get hundreds and thousands of such e-mails per week or day. They also get people offering them money. The chances are low that they'll spot you this way.

Mostly you must have such a great product or cause that they just can not not talk about it. Something so interesting that they are excited to talk about it. There are different ways to do it. And btw when a couple/ a few of them do it, others will follow.


But it's up to you to figure how to do it. There is no one good answer. It depends on what you've got.
 

sneaky_charm

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
311
As someone who only makes money online, I'd say that it depends how much you earn.

While working on sites like Odesk or Freelancer will just help you get by, unless you are among the top 50 or so in your department, if you develop a popular website with millions of visitors, you can easily earn $10,000 or so per month.

Personally, I've found Amazon Affiliate to be great. If you are able to sell about 100 products per month costing about $500 each, then considering 4% revenue, you get about 100*30 = $3000 per month.

Also, developing a website and then selling it is a good idea from purely monetizing point of view. If your website only earns $200 per month, it can be easily sold for $2,000!

Hope it helps!

- Kevin
 

Estate

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
Messages
798
Thanks for all the replies.

I've been reading around on this. As it's not my "main job", the reason I was interested was spending some time each week to begin building up some content or experience or products that could grow over time.

I understand the concept of "make some cool viral thing that people want". But if anyone knew what was really the formula for that, wouldn't it be so easy!
I remember reading the story of Rovio who created Angry Birds, that they had been around 10-15 years and would probably have gone under only for the fact that Angry Birds just became this big phenomenon... they didn't know before that it would and many ideas before it had failed... while the premise is accurate, who really knows what will make it? It's often the simplest or silliest ideas that catch on.

I've dipped my hand in freelancing a while ago. Writing is not my area but I do have a lot of software qualifications. It's a decent side gig. The downside I see is that until you really make this full-time and become someone with a reputation, you've really got to just undercut the competition to the point you're not actually making much. People who post the projects tend to be seedy.
i.e. they will give an initial project spec then completely change it into a much larger project once you accept but of course you are at ransom of receiving bad reviews if you don't complete it at the same price and on time. I feel it's something you really have to get in the deep end and devote a lot of time to, to get a name for yourself so you can live off referrals... i.e. get paid what your worth as your previous work speaks for itself.

So really in the beginning I'm not looking to make a fortune. It was more of a learning experience as to how to build a product or stream to bring people in, then maybe learn to monetize it and see if it goes anywhere.
I've been researching various marketing sites and so on. One was actually sort of funny... he explains how to make money online by simply telling people how to make money online :) Since it's just such a common topic. It's sort of funny but he made it work for himself.
 

132

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
83
Estate said:
Thanks for all the replies.
I understand the concept of "make some cool viral thing that people want". But if anyone knew what was really the formula for that, wouldn't it be so easy!
I remember reading the story of Rovio who created Angry Birds, that they had been around 10-15 years and would probably have gone under only for the fact that Angry Birds just became this big phenomenon... they didn't know before that it would and many ideas before it had failed... while the premise is accurate, who really knows what will make it? It's often the simplest or silliest ideas that catch on.

Estate, I disagree and agree with you. There is formula for success, but it's not know by ordinary people. Big companies have figured it out.

In my company I have a team who's job is to figure this out. Their job is to play all the new trending apps and figure out what makes them popular:
- the graphics
- the level structures
- the reward structures
- how hard it is to pass a level

- to keep track of the media surrounding the app - to see who talked about it and when, which resulted in how much traffic/downloalds
- psychology expert to analyse why something is addictive. There is actually lots of papers by Microsoft psychology researchers on the topic how to make a game super addictive. Even addictive in a bad way.

And we do this for video games/websites/youtube videos and channels.


I can write you 50 pages about why and how Flappy Bird got so popular or how PewDiePie got 27 million subscribers. But that doesn't mean that you can or will do it.

Do you think that apple makes so much money from every new release of the iphone or mac is a fluke? Or every other big company that makes lots of money.



The thing about Angry Birds is that it was years ago, when app development wasn't that popular and the market was smaller, there wasn't much experience or data in the field, etc.




The thing is I (or anyone else) can lay out 500 pages on how to do it step by step. But are you going to quit your job tomorrow, find the funding and team of programmers to do it? Will you work on it for months day and night? Or I can tell you step by step why apple makes so much money, but are you going to start a rival company?

It's not that people don't know how. It's that they are to lazy or don't want to take risks or money doesn't motivate them all that much.




In my case I don't care about the money. I can't spend it. My goal is another.
Ever since I was little I've been obsessed with manga, anime and super heroes like Iron man, mecha, exo-skeletons, Iron man suits, robotics and A.I., etc.

So it's not about the money for me. It's about getting lots of money and teams of engineers/programmers so in the future I can take part in the Research and Development of such tech. Technology that enhances the human body and give it super human abilities.

It might take 50-100 years to complete, and I might have to invest hundreds of millions or even billions in it. So I need the money and connections to do it. I might not succeed or I might only give a small contribution, or I might have to work with other companies to go it, but I believe in science above everything else.
It's such an anomaly that created our universe, all the trillions of trillions of random things that happened so life can emerge on Earth. Hundreds of millions of years of evolution of life, and everything that led to the birth of humanity. Everything during the tens of thousands of years of events that shaped human history, intelligence and rise of technology. And we as a species are wasting it by working boring jobs, eating, sleeping, drinking, etc. It's unacceptable to me to lay around and do nothing.
Technology gives is the power to understand and control the universe and take control of life itself. To do everything that is impossible and shape the course of the Universe. But it takes dedicated people to do it.
I might not be much now but I'm only 21 and I'll never stop working towards helping science and technology advance. No matter what anyone thinks or says. No contribution is small.

Even right now I'm looking and buying samples of japanese technology like - exo-skeletons and other, so we can take them apart and reverse engineer it.
I'll never quit working in this field even if I fail every time. I'll build up enough resources and team of genius engineers to at least lay the foundations.
If I can't accomplish it in my life time - I'll leave it to my future children to keep trying.


This is what drives me. Especially the fact that it sounds impossible to people and they think I might be over ambitious or even crazy. It's people who are crazy that push the world forward.



Ico
 

Estate

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
Messages
798
lco,
I have no doubt that there are people out there like yourself who could write report after report and analyze but I'm still not getting your point.
It's like "I know, but I'm just not telling you".

The analysis of Angry Brids is short sighted. It wasn't exactly ground breaking when it was released but it struck a chord. If Rovio "just knew", why were they flailing so badly before this hit? Why do companies spend millions on advertising but silly home made videos go viral?

Of course there's a skill to marketing something. I don't claim to have a lot of knowledge in that area as it's not my field. But I'm struggling to get your point or why you're pushing it agressivley. I get it, you know something we don't, and you don't want to share this unprofound knowledge... we it's irrelevant to the rest of us at the end of the day.

Note the topic was about "Starting out...."
i.e. Learning what makes things grow as a side project and see if I can see how people generate side income. I don't claim in the slightest to have some huge product, research data or "viral" idea ready to go which would make me quit my job tomorrow... I asked as a learning experience, how is it done, how is it marketted.. With some actual knowledge on the topic, sure, maybe we all could make these things full-time... but um, we all start somewhere man.

If I could start the new Apple tomorrow, wouldn't I do that? As someone in the tech industry, I'll debate Apple's success all night with you, but it wasn't as cut and dry as you say. I would sum up their products and success in recent years are down to marketting and percieved attainability. People want what they think they can't have. Apple cornered a market which others now are closing in on and they are struggling again to innovate, something which saw them struggle earlier in their life too. Even they don't "just know".
 

132

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
83
Even though it's only about starting out you should always set your goals to epic heights.

And you don't get it - it's not that there is a full manual on what to do. There are rough guide lines that are to be followed. It's up to you to figure out the specifics. And companies are going it.

And as for apple's success and others success being due to marketing - you should read my firs post. I said that the marketing is the absolute most important thing for success. I even said that's the most important thing to learn.

And it's not simply "I know but I'm not telling you". There is simply no point to do it. You know how many people I get who ask me to tell them and at first I was exited and would talk for hours in details to friends and people who asked, and every single time I get "okay cool good to know". And they forget it, never use it, etc. It's like an astronaut writing a post on how to fly a shuttle - we'll never actually go and fly a shuttle so it's pointless.

And the thing is I can tell by the fact that you want only sth for the weekends, to start out, make a few thousands - you not the kind of person who wants it big. The kind of people who want to make tens of millions. And you need to take big risks. My risk was dropping out the first semester of university with no guarantee that I'd succeed.

And I view graduating university and getting a job - as severely limiting people's future ambitions. You kinda become part of the system and people who want security and steady job and pay.

It's not a bad thing. i firmly believe that everyone can do whatever they want with no choice being "a wrong one".


As for - you could start the next Apple, you would - then why don't you? Who the hell can tell you, that you can't start it? For all I know you can do it if you try. It's like seduction and approaching girls - you're the only one who can tell you that you can't do it. And you'll never know if you don't try.
I always approach people like everyone can have the next huge idea. You can't underestimate people's abilities. So if you ask me - go for it. If you wan't to start the next big company - do it. I believe in you.



And I agree that there is the luck factor (or like in poker it's called variation). You can't be 100% sure you'll succeed. You can only raise your chances of success, as much as you can and hope for the best in a way, and never quit.
But you never know until you try ;)


Ico
 

Big Daddy

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
707
Well, Ico, I'll tell you this: if you lay out such 50-page knowledge in a broken down, actionable manner, I'd drop out of college in a heartbeat. I never really wanted to enroll, in reality - I did because circumstances led me to. College is not for me. I keep thinking about this the day before important exams, just like today. I won't for the love of god stay all night studying for a exam, but I stay awake without even realizing while I hypothesize about business ideas.

Reality traps you in some situations that make you lose the sight of your goal, but I grasped it again recently and I'd be willing to give it a very good try. I haven't tried anything before because as I said, I really couldn't, but now I may give it a shot. I might have to "sink my ships" and give it a try, but its something that I'm willing to.
 

Thinkingenigma

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Messages
293
Ditto what Big Daddy said. I'd do the same.
 

Oskar

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
182
Kudos Ico, you're a rare one. Money like that usually takes generations to build up. Real wealth doesn't just aggregate in an area where there is already no wealth. Rarely do bootstrapping entrepreneurs reach such heights. Especially at 21! When you took direction of this thread I first assumed that you just had a rich family and maybe a daddy complex (everyone wants to feel like they did it themselves), but it sounds like you might actually have something of value to teach people, if only that be 'have money (along with a moneymaking mentality, a singular chief definite aim that can become popular, and a bit of luck) to make money'. You're right though, people do tend to set goals based on their socio-economic class, and all too often people use their current income as an anchor to hold back their future income, and also often stay in the same or similar spheres of industry as their ancestors. Habits go deeper than we tend to think, and class is programmed in people on a very deep level, whether we like it or not. Though I think it's worth noting that not everyone can afford to be a dreamer for long enough (and with far-reaching enough foresight and cunning) to make their dreams a reality in this paradigm, as money brings about a scarcity mentality/reality (on a cultural level) into a world that is fundamentally abundant, and this deeply embedded cultural perception of scarcity causes most people who ascribe to it a lot of harm (especially the financially poor). Just look at the expression I just used of someone being able to "afford" time. When time is monetized it quickly becomes scarce.

For me, money is primarily a tool for freedom (though I want it to be more a tool for focusing and organizing creative energies in the future). My chief definite aim isn't money focused, but skill focused. As long as I have enough to live a modest lifestyle and can focus my energies on learning about the things I want to be learning (which also are only secondarily money making skills; primarily individualizing/achievement focused ones), I am richer than the King of Saudi Arabia.

But then again, my primary heroes aren't captains of industry.

Though, once I turn my head more towards building up major achievements, I'm going to have to deal more with that world, which currently is ruled, quite literally, by a god called Capital.

Oskar

P.S. If I'm not mistaken, Chase has actually founded at least one start-up in the social media niche.
 
Top