Talk Emotional, not Logical

[Tony D]

I’m working with a guy who’s approaching a lot of women, having insta dates, but not having any second dates. So I asked him to record his daygame approaches on his phone, and listened to them. He’s not coming off as nervous, but his main issue is common amongst men: his conversations are logical, rather than emotional.

For example. He’s talking to a girl about Yoga philosophies, about being in the moment, letting go of outcome, breathing, and this opened the girl’s conversation up. It’s something that I’ve worked with him on, because he wasn’t showing any personality. I told him to talk about his personal philosophies.

Sharing your philosophies on life will open up girls to deeper convo’s, but it’s still surface level. I realized he was creating rapport, but not comfort or attraction. Note, I wasn’t working on push/pull, teasing, sexual framing. Just “self expression.”

So remember that women are “emotional” creatures. What I noticed he, and many other newbies do is they make observations, rather than insights. But what really grabs a woman’s attention is when you tell her how you FEEL about your insights, ideas, philosophies, experiences. This seems to be something coaches have forgotten since RSD dominated the scene. They just don’t talk much about conversation.

Still, most students are focused on “what to say” they forget that women aren’t that interested in anything other than how you feel about it.

For my client, I told him next time to tell her if Yoga makes him feel happy, content, or horny? Does it relieve stress? Does it help him deal with a day next to his asshole boss? Does it calm his racing mind?

If you just read a book about Elon Musk and you’re talking to a girl about it, don’t just tell her about him, his ideas, his accomplishments. Tell her about how it made you feel. How would you feel if you invented the Tesla car? How would you feel if you got to bang Grimes?

This is just the beginning of talking seductively. If you struggle in conversation, just ask yourself “How do I FEEL about this topic?” Once you understand the fundamentals of emotional language, It will open up a whole other level of verbal game.

 

[M_Ronin]

There is something I dont understand. Arent we men supposed to be logical? Isnt embodying masculine polarity to their feminine nature what makes them attracted? Then there are dating coaches like you telling me I have to be open with my feelings. To show my softer side.

Too much conflicting information... And Its not like I didnt try this before. Girls eat it all up usually. I open up especially well if I think I wont be judged for it/I really like the girl. But it doesnt feel like seduction exactly. More like friendship.

 

[DakenMarquis]

Ok so I agree with M_Ronin a bit but maybe my problem is different. After having ~30+ lays off online dating & parties this last year. I can do emotional conversations, but because of my focus on dominance, RP knowledge, I can't connect past certain number of lays. With my new abundance, I'm coming to terms with my smv potential, and feel as if girls should be investing way more after 2-3 lays.

It gets tiring & boring when I can get ons-or 2nd date lays easily, & feel that current girls want me to put more effort. I'd reward their level of investment but hate that it's on me to go out of my way to invest more. So I just end up seeing other girls, if they dont chase/invest. Then end up defaulting to logic/low energy conversations because of lack of interest? Or increase in options? Lol its frustrating.

 

[Tony D]

There is something I dont understand. Arent we men supposed to be logical? Isnt embodying masculine polarity to their feminine nature what makes them attracted? Then there are dating coaches like you telling me I have to be open with my feelings. To show my softer side.

Too much conflicting information... And Its not like I didnt try this before. Girls eat it all up usually. I open up especially well if I think I wont be judged for it/I really like the girl. But it doesnt feel like seduction exactly. More like friendship.

Don't mistake being masculine in polarity for being a boring, shallow conversationalist. Of course women are attracted to polarity as we are, but what I'm talking about is an issue where men have flat, dull, surface level conversations with women, and then get friendzoned.

Every case is different. You may not have this problem, as you may be better at communicating with women. Maybe you're a viking and being stoic and logical is attractive to the women you've been dating. There's always going to be conflicting information because seduction is Ruby on Rails, it's an art form.

For the most part, guys should understand the general idea that men are logical, women are emotional. The women love us for our logic, because it's useful and wise, but they suck our dicks because we make them feel emotions. That could be wonder, or fear, etc. But look at how much women love poets, singers, public speakers. It's the language of how we feel about things that moves people. It's just one tool of many.

 

[BlandMan0]

Ok so I agree with M_Ronin a bit but maybe my problem is different. After having ~30+ lays off online dating & parties this last year. I can do emotional conversations, but because of my focus on dominance, RP knowledge, I can't connect past certain number of lays. With my new abundance, I'm coming to terms with my smv potential, and feel as if girls should be investing way more after 2-3 lays.

It gets tiring & boring when I can get ons-or 2nd date lays easily, & feel that current girls want me to put more effort. I'd reward their level of investment but hate that it's on me to go out of my way to invest more. So I just end up seeing other girls, if they dont chase/invest. Then end up defaulting to logic/low energy conversations because of lack of interest? Or increase in options? Lol its frustrating.

Maybe they might just be sowing their wild oats with you. Women love sex just as much as men do. This is going to inspire me to talk more than I do because I always get the friendship vibe and not the lover vibe that I want.

 

[Chrance]

IMO men aren’t being logical when we talk in a wooden boring manner; we are actually communicating in a one dimensional essentially inferior manner to women. We treat words like they have an inherent meaning when they don’t. Words have no meaning. They are sounds we make with our mouths. Logic proper only applies to concepts themselves, not reality. Reality is like a raging wild ocean whereas logic is like a calm little pond (can’t remember who said this lol). Naturally men slip into logic because it in fact doesn’t take much intelligence to be logical and it is a mentally safer places. Everything makes sense as it were

If A = B, and B = C, then A = C like no shit lol
​

Whenever I’m just chilling or vibing with someone, communicating in an emotional manner is natural. Whenever I’m concerned with the truth or trying to explain a difficult concept, this is when I fall into the logical rabbit hole.

 

[DakenMarquis]

IMO men aren’t being logical when we talk in a wooden boring manner; we are actually communicating in a one dimensional essentially inferior manner to women. We treat words like they have an inherent meaning when they don’t. Words have no meaning. They are sounds we make with our mouths. Logic proper only applies to concepts themselves, not reality. Reality is like a raging wild ocean whereas logic is like a calm little pond (can’t remember who said this lol). Naturally men slip into logic because it in fact doesn’t take much intelligence to be logical and it is a mentally safer places. Everything makes sense as it were

If A = B, and B = C, then A = C like no shit lol
​

Whenever I’m just chilling or vibing with someone, communicating in an emotional manner is natural. Whenever I’m concerned with the truth or trying to explain a difficult concept, this is when I fall into the logical rabbit hole.

Great feedback guys. I think you make a heavy point with sowing the wild oats @BlandMan0. I relied on assumption that they'd stick around after good sex.
Perhaps there's more competition, they wanted other things or trying other guys.

@Chrance See this is more difficult for me, I find I'm a philosopher type. I like truths, communicating ideas, getting to the heart of the matter, dealing with things more than the actual ambiguity of communication itself. I find "communicating" without meaning to be boring. Its likely pretentious on my part, but I'm snobby in that regard lol

Communication with women aside from flirting as foreplay to escalation is too time consuming haha I prefer hobbies way more. Even though women are great, the high that comes from accomplishment(at least for the moment) is far more motivating.. What has everyone else experienced? Is this a temporary issue, do I need to enamor myself with women all over again? I have multiple FBs but finding it not necessarily adding to my life as far as fulfillment lol Please contribute if you can everyone!

 

[punisher]

It all depends on the girl, if shes stupid, never attended highschool etc, she wont really be interested in logical conversations on the first date like a university student would

It also depends whether shes interested in the logical topics hes talking about, what if she doesnt give a shit about yoga?

You forgot to add the fact that he should ask her about how SHE feels, and she would eventually ask him back, and when she do, he should just keep it plain, short and SEXUAL

Women are indeed emotional creatures, and absolutely in need of a PROVIDER. Most conversations early on should make her think that you can actually provide something in the table, like what do you for a living? what kind of abilities do you have in life, what can you do? are you a james bond figure that can basically do everything or a gamer that sits on his ass playing games all day long?

Tony ive read some of your threads and i could understand that your a digital nomad? cuz if so, then cheers buddy ! and be careful traveling nowadays ... anyway, most of the conversations i usually had with girls was basically about traveling, showing them pictures of where i have been and ask them if they would want to go there, if your clients doesnt travel, theres free adobe photoshop softwares on the internet, so easy to edit a picture making it look like you've been to los angeles or whatever, and their facebook/tinder or whatever profile picture should always be of themselves in the beach, "it reminds the girls of being naked, and how much they miss the beach"

Cheers

 

[Michal]

I agree men get further if they do not employ too much logic and facts in their conversations. I can see that in my own case
Example being talking about a ski trip when she asks how you spend the weekend.
You can go logical:
So we went to X, on arrival it was already dark, could not see anything. Next day we went to the ski slope, fairly steep, the morning was very very cold, for lunch we had a sausage with bread or a soup. Afternoon was sunny so it was great.

Compared to adding some emotion:
We arrived to to cottage at night, you could hear that silence of the night and sound of nature of the nearby forest. The next day was freezing, I could not feel my fingers if I took of my gloves. But for lunch we had soup, really hot, that kind that warms your entire soul with each spoon you take and you feel refreshed. The afternoon was sunny, you could feel that warmth washing over your face when at the top of the mountain. So it was great.

There is also something I noticed when building the emotional connection. A girl hinted to me that she has some underlying health issues. And then that she does not want to talk about it, but that she is surprised she even revealed anything to me. Now I could have gone logical and say something like "well you obviously need to trust someone to feel comfortable to mention it therefore you must trust me"
Instead I just kept looking her in the eyes and just took her hand.

To be fair, this is one of my big obstackles because I am an analytical overthinker. So not talking facts is quite a challenge. Feel free to chime in as my examples are most likely not the best. But that is the direction I try to head in my conversations.

 

[Mr STIF]

Like most men, I can be logical when talking about facts or principles or philosophies. Anytime, I start talking in this manner I remind myself to add some humor, playful teasing and physical touches.

Those logical stuffs gets her attention but what makes her invest is when I show my emotional side.

Women are emotional and men are logical but men can still be emotional sometimes. And women can be logical too.

In a conversation with a woman: I try to connect the logical aspect of my conversations to an emotional side especially if it's about her. We'll laugh about it and make innuendos and playfully touch in process.

After a while of laughing- I might shift the conversation back to the logical side. Get serious and talk logical then I shift to emotional again to spike her emotions.

I do this mostly intuitively as I can't even be logically serious for an hour.

Talk emotional, not logical. Tony is right guys.

 

[ulrich]

Men are not logical. We are just more logical than women.
There is a big difference but we are not talking absolutes here.

People with Asperger are the most logical you will find and they struggle to connect with both women and men. This is not attractive.

Don’t see men/women as complete opposites. Reality is much more nuanced than that.

 

[Beam]

Is the key distinction here (especially for negative emotions) to talk passionately about them, rather than displaying the emotions themselves?

For instance, say you lose your dream job, would it be attractive to passionately say "I worked so hard for so long to get this job, and felt on top of the world. Now it feels like my world has come crashing down around me". But unattractive to cry?

On anger, would it be attractive if you made a firm speech about how mad something made you, but unattractive to contort your face and display the emotion? And yes I know some women would be attracted to overt displays of anger because of the passion it conveys, exceptions to the rule yada yada

Is this away of showing that you have emotions and so can be trusted, but you are not a slave to them and have control over them? And a way to capture both the logical and emotional at the same time by "stating the facts" about your emotions?

Is this is the reason why you hear stories of women losing attraction to their man when he starts to "open up"? Because while he is starting to show vulnerability, he's not doing it in an attractive way which shows her that he has control over his emotions?

Another example - happiness:

- Not showing any emotion or talking about how happy you are - unattractive
- Talking about how happy you are in a monotone voice - unattractive
- Jumping up and down on the roof like an excited little kid - displaying emotion - but too much - unattractive
- Talking passionately about how happy you are, with a smile and sense of achievement - that is powerful and radiates out for miles - attractive

 

[ulrich]

@Mooser, yeah I think you got it.

it is OK to show emotions.
It is not manly, however, to lose control to your emotions (women don’t like this).
You have to be the driver.

Women lose attraction and respect for men who can’t control themselves. Perhaps that’s the key distinction.

 

[pikachu]

legit don't understand how anyone can assert men are more logical after the last presidential debate. maybe our society just doesn't call it "emotional" when men are being emotional.

 

[ulrich]

legit don't understand how anyone can assert men are more logical after the last presidential debate. maybe our society just doesn't call it "emotional" when men are being emotional.

“Our society” has very different standards of what emotional means for men and women.

 

[William Wallace]

Men are not logical. We are just more logical than women.
There is a big difference but we are not talking absolutes here.

People with Asperger are the most logical you will find and they struggle to connect with both women and men. This is not attractive.

Don’t see men/women as complete opposites. Reality is much more nuanced than that.

ahh yes i do have problems connecting with the other gender and people with no shared interests although i try

 

[Teevster]

Just to prove how "illogical" you can be and get away with it:

Alek: Have you ever been in a situation, with someone, where the vibe is magical, yet doesn't make any sense... it is like you do not understand what is going on, yet you feel something that makes totally sense to you, and this sensation allows you to escape earth, like if you were flying, yet at the same time you are so much grounded on earth, and hence being pulled in two different world, allowing you to create your own personal space... of freedom... with no control, yet you control it, because you are in control of yourself, while this allows you to totally let go, and act upon your passions, yet while you act upon it, the sensation becomes to strong.... and that you feel like holding back, and as you hold back you end up desiring even more?
Her: OMG OMG SO TRUE!!! WOAH

And If have said similar in field. Not even a joke.

That all said...

To stimulate her: talk emotional
To deal with her resistance: talk rational (while dealing with emotions)
For logistics: 100% rational

Switching back and forth between both is ideal - as you get the positive effects of fractionation.

 

[ulrich]

ahh yes i do have problems connecting with the other gender and people with no shared interests although i try

It takes time. Don’t worry most of us started there.

Just try listening to your instincts more.