Teevster and Watts Discussing Old Lay Reports

[Watts]

Moderator Note (Teevster): Hey there. So yesterday evening, Watts and I had a long discussion in this thread in general. I felt bad about derailing the guy's thread (even though he got the advice he needed).

The conversation moved into a discussion with the advanced poster Watts - where he displayed a curiosity in seeing my old 10 year old reports. So I decided to post them (see quotations in the posts below - and you will see them). These reports are pre-2010 - meaning that they are a bit different to my style now. I was younger, more high energy, more bold (I think Hector will prefer my style from back in the days). My style was a bit more direct and explicit. I was back then known as a wild cat. Now I am more cerebral, lowkey, smooth, low energy and seductive.

However beware that my skill level is nowhere near what it is today and my theoretical understanding was limited back then - hence some key analysis in the old reports were left out. However this is not a problem as both I and Watts provide contemporary commentaries to these old reports. This way you get the full picture.

It is also a fun read if you like to see the development of my game, because all three reports are quite different.
- The first one is my first sex talk report (one of the first nights I used it at a small home party and got mad results)
- One report (perhaps pre-sex talk) where I do not use sex talk! here you can see me using a whole different style of game that I would not use these days.
- The last one is a bit more recent - but still almost 10 years old. Here I had already reached a certain level of high mastery. This report is totally wild, and is usually a good example of what I and my circles (pablo, carousel, Maximillian etc) would label "old school sex talk" or "TVA_Oslo style sex talk" or "Teevster's 2010 sex talk style (comparing it to 2008, and 2016 style)"

In the reports, you can see the difference between me now and me today (a good example of my style today would be something like in my 10th anniversary report. But those interested , you can see the similarities and the foundational aspects of my style.

And for those who are new, you could see this as a way to see how I was doing after reaching intermediate level (second report) and low advanced (first report) into my first step in mastery (report 3).

The reports are fun reads and lots of content (they are not bad reports bad no means) and with Watts' as well as my commentaries, I believe there is some value in this.

Enjoy,
Teevster
------------------------------

want to read an old lay report?

Another story with dads that I remember was a home partie... it was halloween. I was wearing a nurse outfit (never got as socially proofed in my life). I hooked up with this girl dressed as cat women, who I ended up fucking in the ass in the sauna. The dad of the host busted us... a guy in a nurse outfit and catwomen, fucking in his sauna. I remember just responding "she is nice wanna join" and got uncomfortable and left. I wa a bit reckless when I was young (I was 16 - I think it was in 2009). The report became on my most legendary on mASF Since I had pics too

I need to think of others... but I never had to deal with angry dads....

Yes! PM. lol

 

[Teevster]

Yes! PM. lol

Why Pm... here is one (I may write a remake since this is my first night of using SEX TALK and the concepts of sexual prizing and sexual reframing ever. The results where mindblowing that night (got lucky to and there were other factors at play here like social proof that I did not emphasis in the report).

This one is historical.

LOL, i got laid friday night lol, but damn fuck it, this lr's comes first.
Sorry guys, can't remember exactly the convos. since the nigth where so fucking long.

I got home from hblatina's place, which i couldn't lay because her parents were at home (i met her friday night, where i layed a chick in the ass, lr coming soon btw )

I went home, got some cool clothes on, purple dress jacket, black jeans and a white t-shirt, seems cool, prepared 2 cd's..., yeah some cool housemusic, anyway....

I entered that birthday party, it's started out with a dinner.
I sat down, i got some white wine, i ate a bit.
2 girls were sitting beside each other, hb8tittes, and hb9fuckingcute.
We started fluffing and flirting. Lot's of push and pull, mostly done by facial expressions.

They laughed they smiled, but they were drinking tooo fucking much... lol.

Beside me,was sitting a fucking hot girl, i call her hb9handball, were keeping quiet quiet.
Due to my social proof from the 2 other girls, just by giving hbhandball a smile, she asked my name.
She led this into fluff talk, but let's do this a bit sexual. No... you don't talk about sex while eating.
So a good way to do this is, each time you are going to talk to her, you get into her ear, and fucking breath while talking.
It's a turn on, no doubt. Also you can add some light kino, which is called a social kino.

The 2 other chicks, hbtitties, and hbfuckingcute, were talking to me again, and were always finding excuses to highfive me, after using my bl.
What i mean with bl, it's after she said something, i just said soemthing like: Uhhm yeah i see, and nick with your head, and put your hand on your jaw. Then right after you give her a big smile.
We cheered, all cool.
I kept talking with hbhandball to the end of the dinner.
Then i went downstairs, which was supposed be a room were we was supposed to dance, i put up some dancemixes. I danced with lots of chodes, fucking hillarious.
Cool Dancing, lots of fun.
I went up again i saw hbhanball sitting, i kinoed her, and talked.
Of course, we are isolated, guess what the topic turned out to... SEX of course, and if you didn't guess you are a big idiot... fuck off lol.

She told me she lived far away from oslo. So i asked her how she was supposed to get home. She told she was sleeping over at the place were the party was going. I told her she could sleep at my place (dad is still away).

I told her she is doing this just for getting somoene to sleep with, she didn't answer yet, but a big smile.
I give her huge EC.

TVA: yeah i know you like to have somoene to sleep with, it's in your nature. (whispered in her ear of course)
HBhandball: It is! I especially love to be holded when i am sleeping.
TVA: yeah it's pretty sexual it's great.
HBhandball: yeah!
TVA: anyway, most men doesn't know how to really please a women.
Hbhanball: I know, i've never really cummed when a guy had sex with me...
TVA: yeah they all focus on that G-spot, but you know what?
HBhandball: No?
TVA: Well Everygirls have a g-spot, but not everyone has equal amount of sensility down there. Personally i found the A spot, which is deeper inside much better, and it gives more orgasms.
HBhandball: seriously? Well i doesn't get much orgasms, but sex feels good anyway.
TVA: well, yeah it does, but how did the guys fuck you, i mean, most girls loves hardsex, after my experience ( i am experienced, gotta show this to her, sexual pricing at is best!).
Hbhandball: Yeah i like it hard.
TVA: lol, i know that! What i like is when you are both so horny and you jump on each other.

She then told me some of her previous sex stories, with both of her BF.
She said she did something creepy in the past. She was scared to tell me about it, but i told nothing is too creepy for me when it comes to sex.
She told me she had a threesome with 2 guys.
I started laughing, saying is that creepy??, then i told her one of my stories.
Hahaha should have seen her DDB, lol.
(Hbhandball: Could this happens to me?)

I then left her and went to hbtitties, holded around her in a very dominant way with a big smile, she touched my hair, i spanked her ass, she spanked back, i called her a bad girl, and she licked her lips.
Wooohoo, then i went to hbcurly, which i knew from the past, and gave her a hug, and a few other chick screaming my name when they saw me. Guys knew me, so i saluted them.
I went back down were a few chicks were jerking around, fuck them i don't wanna waste my time talking to 100 chicks (damn my name isn't mr.douchebag AFCadam), so i did some mini interactions i didn't remember anyway.

I started dancing, hbtitties and hbfuckingcute (both) joined me.
I spinned them around, pulled them into me, pushed them away, i grad hbtittie's titties lol, she smiles, but she was a bit drunk....
Hbcute, was always laughing really cute girls, i did some of my dancing she got impressed.
Then i went up to hbhandball.

Dunno how but i ended up talking about how much women loves sex.
She agreed, but she disagreed that women was hiding their sexuality, but that's just better for me
I told women enjoys sex because women have 6 types of orgasms, so i explained all them to her.

This is sexual prizing, showing how much i know= how much i can satsfie her.

Oh, also was kinoing her, and grabbing her hands.
A good push and pull move is (we sat beside each other on chairs, facing a table), so you can face her(so that your chest face her), which is and IOI, and then change into a posture which face the table, which is a sign of not that big interest.

I also dida little afrodisiac, is when she is talking, or you are talking, sometimes, keep EC (more than 2 sec, you fucking pussy!)

She said that it would be lvoely if i sleep over with her tonight.
I said that i maybe could stay with her tonight. I told her maybe, but she had to earn it, which means that if she does anything wrong i won't stay with her. This is just for controlling the interaction.
Then randomly hbsupercute comes over and touch my head.

A do a her a big smile, and just put my fingertips on her head, and push her backward. This is a fun thign to do, girl does with men.

Afterwards i left outside with a chick, which wanted to start a band we fluffed about muisic, calling her tomorow for appointing a jam.

I went for a smoke, and 2 hot chicks were talking about attitude and self-esteem in the purpose of attracting men.
I chimed in with some advice (both were really hot)
I taught them push and pull, and push and pull escalation/teasing, for making men chase them.
This was great because later they were gaming some guys, was fucking fun seing them touch guys on balls, and leave them, i enjoyed seeing the guys chase those chicks.

From there I went in again after the smoke, and decided that i will sleep over with hbhandball, she is so damn hot anyway, blond, and perfect ass, tight, the way i like them.
I kino her, much more sexually this time, she breath on me, she enjoys it.

But some sticky's comes up.
HBtitties, and hbsuperfuckingultramotherfuckingcute is sleeping in the same room as us, followed with a big afc (fuck him... he got so jealouse that night that he left with a cab... lol fucking loser).
I told hbhandball about it, and said that we wait till they sleep before i give her a wonderful night.
She smiles, i like that shit... BITCH!

Now time for everyone to get down on the dancefloor, lots of people i havent seen or interacted with ealier just popped up, i call them randoms, yeah fucking randoms.
I put on some house, everyone dance.
Me and hbhandball are kissclosing, and kinoing intesenly each other.
Then it's TVA time on the dancefloor.
I put on the track get shaky by ian carey.
Here is the track (btw, click download for downlaoding it!)


Everyone went into a circle dancing, and some people went in the middle showing of doing something stupid.
some guys were stripping, or 2 girls dancing dirty togheter.
I was dancing with hbhandball on the side, until i decided to enter the circle with some electro dance.
Suddently, hbtitties, and hbfuckingcute, drags me, asks me to show up my ass, and their a both spanking my ass, and i am shouting, ohh it's great.
Girls: Oh TVA you are such a nasty little boy.

I know bitches!

Then i went back to hbhandball.
Danced, then a hot chicks from the opposit side of the circle, were asking me over for some sexual dancing. Actually it was one of the girl i gave the pick up advice too, we danced but i ejected, hot but not my style.

Back to hbhandball, i do some real sexual dancing, real tension between us, while two chodes are undressing (their shirt only)on the dancefloor, then suddently 2 guys were forcing themselves into me, without their shirts on, i play with them lol.

Then me and hbhandball, sat down on the bed, which was beside the dancefloor, i was supposed to sleep there... with her) and took a bootle of champagne, a little one, 0,5 liter only, and we drank it up (ps: we are still sober), we drank it fast, because i stoled it from a random.

Then it's time to get to bed, i need a cigarette, so i went out with hbtitties, she smoked too, so i offered her a smoke.
She gave me some sexual vibes, tried to kiss me.
I told her ,sincerely, that tonight i was going to lay hbhandball, but that i could stand up later and awake her after that hbhandball is as sleep, and that we can go upstair (remember are all supposed, to sleep in the same room, we are actually 6 sleeping in that room, the host joined us too) and fuck, without anybody knowing it, but i told her she had to keep it secret or no lay for her.
She complied.
I warned her that i will have to fuck hbhandball infront of her, but i told her to act as if she was sleeping, and i promesed her to awake her for having sex.

Bed time, people are leaving.
Hbcurly, said goodbye, and on the way to the exit she gave me EC while biting her finger in a horny way.

Everyone is into bed.
The host my bud, start fucking hbtitties lol (glad i have condoms because i am the next lol)

Anyway i lay down in the bed with hbhandball. We hug, i hold her, suddently hbfuckingcute, shouts too me...: Omg he is so cute, look at how he is holding her.

She did that at least 10 times.
Everyone is in bed, my bud finished fucking hbtittie, and is now a sleep.
I finger hbhandball, stimulating her A-spot as i promised, she enjoys it, she rubes my cock.
I penetrate her from behind, i loved feel that perfect ass into me... so lovely, we finished we kissed, i hoilded around her till she slept. Also she was comepletly sober!!!

30 min later (yeah have to wait till my cock gets hard again
I awaked hbtittie, took some beer, went upstair, layed down on the sofa, took opened the beers, actually 2 each...
And had sex, very quietly, lol, so it was lame, but i enjoyed her big titties. Well honestly she was pretty drunk, who cares she is just extra point, and she really wanted mem she was telling me verbally that she wanted to fuck me, so i gave her some.
I finished my beer, went back again.
Got into my bed, she got back to her, with my bud, sleeping lol

When i entered my bed were hbhandball were sleeping, i felt something strange...

OMG

HBsupercute is sleeping in my bed beside hbhandball lol.

She said hi alex, in a very quiet sleeping voice: i couldnt sleep on the madrass on the floor so i burrowed you bed, would you like to hold me...

This is too much lol.
I holded her a bit, but my drive so so low, and i have no condoms left, so i stood up, took a beer, went to the bathroom, called a cab... and went home, and wrote this lr lol.
And i fucking want a cigarette.
So now, let me apologize, i gotta sleep, good night!

Questions and comment welcome

Edit: Oh yeah i wondering how the girls will react next morning when they see i disapeared lol!
Hahaha, got ya bitches!
And one last thing tomorow i might lay hblatina... so lr might coming up, and i will of course post the lr from friday night too, were i assfucked this chick in the bathroom.

Take care

TVA

 

[Watts]

Why Pm... here is one (I may write a remake since this is my first night of using SEX TALK and the concepts of sexual prizing and sexual reframing ever. The results where mindblowing that night (got lucky to and there were other factors at play here like social proof that I did not emphasis in the report).

This one is historical.

I thought it was from another forum and you'd send me a link. But this is better. Thanks for posting it in it's entirety!

TVA: yeah i know you like to have somoene to sleep with, it's in your nature. (whispered in her ear of course)
HBhandball: It is! I especially love to be holded when i am sleeping.
TVA: yeah it's pretty sexual it's great.
HBhandball: yeah!

I really like this sexual frame. First you accuse her playfully of looking to get sex (but say sleep with). Then you double down on how it's sexual.

Playful accusations are some of the most fun and productive opens or early gambits. I'm going to think more about this.

I said that i maybe could stay with her tonight. I told her maybe, but she had to earn it, which means that if she does anything wrong i won't stay with her. This is just for controlling the interaction.

See, that's a good frame to set. When a girl has a clear interest in something, could be as overt as this or less, to let her know she has to earn it and can't do anything wrong. I will use this.

Also, this whole report was amazing! Historical is an understatement!

 

[Teevster]

I thought it was from another forum and you'd send me a link. But this is better. Thanks for posting it in it's entirety!

There is more where it is coming from!

I plan actually spellchecking some of them and report them with modern day commentaries!

I love reading my old reports because I realize how much I have change - from being the famously crazy annd reckless young PUA who pushed the limits to becoming the more smooth and complex sexual persona that I am now really blows my mind away. It is however also funny to see how some of the elements from back then are still the foundations of my game today.

That said this report is not one of the wild ones. You should read one of those crazy ones (sadly most of them are lost)

I really like this sexual frame. First you accuse her playfully of looking to get sex (but say sleep with). Then you double down on how it's sexual.

That's a good one. It was a golden nugget deliver by accident - not a deliberate move!

Playful accusations are some of the most fun and productive opens or early gambits. I'm going to think more about this.

I was more into this back in the days. Now I am just smooth, interesting, captivating and intriguing - at least that's what opt for.

See, that's a good frame to set. When a girl has a clear interest in something, could be as overt as this or less, to let her know she has to earn it and can't do anything wrong. I will use this.

Yes you can still clearly see the remains of old school inspiration here (Mystery method and real world seudction push and pull/disqualification and qualification). That was kinda the way to do things back then There are even reports by me that are pre-sex talk era (i.e. from just a few months before this) that are only constituted of old school DHV stories, push and pull and even banter (cocky funny).

Also, this whole report was amazing! Historical is an understatement!

Thanks

 

[Watts]

There is more where it is coming from!

I plan actually spellchecking some of them and report them with modern day commentaries!

I'd love to read them!

I love reading my old reports because I realize how much I have change - from being the famously crazy annd reckless young PUA who pushed the limits to becoming the more smooth and complex sexual persona that I am now really blows my mind away. It is however also funny to see how some of the elements from back then are still the foundations of my game today.

You mean like that part where you fucked two different girls, including one who just fucked your friend, and then left them (and him) to sort it out the next day! lol

That said this report is not one of the wild ones. You should read one of those crazy ones (sadly most of them are lost)

Please point me to them.

And why are they lost, the old forum locking them? Or an even older forum?

That's a good one. It was a golden nugget deliver by accident - not a deliberate move!

I find that every once in a while when I'm just improvising, I come up with some great material.

Actually a failing of mine is trying to take a golden line and insert it into a new situation where it doesn't quite work. I have to actually work it out and put it in a routine if I want to do it. But sometimes I just throw it out again and it falls flat.

Ex. On Wednesday this girl said she hadn't had sex in three months and later (and not directly in response to the line either) I said "I'm sure you enjoy your toy collection" which was a bastardization of a line I delivered a while ago where a girl said she didn't like "girls or guys" (basically, she was just a little anti-social and hurt by someone in the past) and I said "in that case, you must have quite the toy collection" to an uproar of laughter (not to mention, it immediately turned things sexual).

I was more into this back in the days. Now I am just smooth, interesting, captivating and intriguing - at least that's what opt for.

Ok, so if you could redo that seduction, how would you have changed it? Or would you not have? (Because it worked great)

Or, how would you approach a similar situation differently with your new persona?

Yes you can still clearly see the remains of old school inspiration here (Mystery method and real world seudction push and pull/disqualification and qualification). That was kinda the way to do things back then There are even reports by me that are pre-sex talk era (i.e. from just a few months before this) that are only constituted of old school DHV stories, push and pull and even banter (cocky funny).

Swinggcat is someone I never got into. Although I recognize the name. Are some of his ideas or the way he implements them worth looking into?

 

[Teevster]

I'd love to read them!

Will post them! No worries.

You mean like that part where you fucked two different girls, including one who just fucked your friend, and then left them (and him) to sort it out the next day! lol

I would say that now, as an odler person I consider this bad behavior. But hey, I was 16! who can blame me!

Please point me to them.

I can post two here...

Here is a pre-sex talk one...

LR: (Night Game)One of my best games, no ASD, No LMR, she follows what i do like a little sister!
Date: June 12th, 2008 06:48:07 AM (EDT)
Group: alt.seduction.fast.fieldreports
Author: TVA_Oslo
Email/Info: <mASF profile>
This article is under strict © copyright rules. For personal use only.
Hey guys!!

INTRO

This report as always contain a lot of outer game, but is explained why the outer game worked.
It contain some inner game too.

The best part of the lr,i s where I'm isolated with the target. You can go directly to this part, but i recommend to read the whole, you'll find a lot of cool stuff in here

Hope you guys enjoy!

(it's a part called after the party.. which isn't anything with laying... just an extra part i felt for adding just cool reading)

On last Friday night(from my last FR) while carrying my drunk friend(LOL), we where talking about Saturday night.

He was so drunk, he couldn't even talk hehe buy he said: GUYS! i hooked up a party for you tomorrow.... and the host asked me a specified question to take you(me), and Arny with me.

I was wondering l why us? we ain't no pop stars... but I will soon find out..

Saturday night is on the way, going for my cologne and style, yeah yeah same old shit.

At the party
(TVA is getting attention, and building attraction in group situations..)


It was a small party( 30 people), with many hot chicks, I recognized some girl i gamed fast in the last LR... I did get IOI from few of the girls(not the one i liked)

My state was shitty, i was in a bitchy state, and not ready for sarge.

I was telling Arny that i might get home, I'm not feeling for it.
He said: you are going no way... you'll handle those chicks, i handle them already(he is very C/F kind of person)
The girls told me, you where much cooler last time. I had to reply I'm not in the same mood.

I found out that i had some anchors where i am in state. I anchored the time i was a big events...

GAME ON!!!!


A slut was going around asking for beers, I replied, no i don't have any for you, she asked all the guys.
She was trying to convince guys to give her beers, by using: "you're so cute" on them.
"SHUT UP" i said
" I Guess you have a lot of beers with you, and if you find my friend cute, why don't you hook up with him?"

TVA showed 100% alphaness lol.
I said to the chicks, i was back in mood, they where fucking glad, gave me 100 hugs lol.

TVA: Damn, alcohol is so expensive here in Norway!
1 of the chicks(3 chicks around hb7,5- 8,5 + Arny): YEAH!
TVA: oki why don't we get a holiday Together in Spain?
1 of the chicks(3 chicks + Arny): OH!! that would be so cool, i am with you!
other girl in the group: Me too!
..... ME too!
TVA: oki, then we will all travel(damn holiday with so many chicks... its jackpot lol... i didn't plan to hook holiday with them... but its maybe a good idea...)
Come or and lets create the fellowship... BIG HUG!!(giving big hug to the people in that group)

Arny leaves, i leaves to different places in the house.

A girl i always crossed, love to touch my hair.
I always push her away.. i said like: Do you like when strangers touch your boobs? i guess no, get away from my hair!
Then go for ass spanking!( she was damn hot girl a 9 maybe?!)
TVA: Fucking pervert girl, touching strangers hair. Always delivered this in a cocky way...!!!

LOL


I was only fluffing for a minute with my target(the girl... i made out with later that night)Then, when another hot friend of her came, i freezed her out, and talked with them instead, then i went to another set of girl... teased them, and asked for hug(poor girl, a badboy like me are teasing you, come and give me a hug!)

Creates pre-selection... The more sets i talk with... the more easier i get in talk with sets, and more attractive i get... love this shit!!!

I went to Johnnyboy(yes he was there ! making out with the girl which always touched my hair. lol, she came and started kinoing, i didn't want her, fuck off

Each time she saw me, she touched my hair... I disuqlified her, and she always replied: oh you are not the guy who like to but touched that much, I'm so osrry if you odnt like it( for me it was DHV, cause it created that i am not the guy which everyone can get)
I said it: are you trying to hit on me? you'll have to do it better, delivered with a smile, and joking way)
Damn always with a smile and joking way!

Girls was dancing on the dance floor, Start dance to their music, yes it was Freemasons, i love Freemasons!!
When you dance like hell, and have the balls to do it, its a DHV!
Arny where pushing the gay song " You spin me round" LOL, he started dancing it for a bit.
He's really funny, and ladies love him cause he his charm and humour. He's a natural

I went back to my target, let's call her hb8platina(she was platina blond)
A drunk girl actually helped me DHV, she was so drunk that she said she could sleep with me.
She didn't act drunk, but she was saying, oh you are so cute.
Don't think girl only find me cute while their drunk lol.
The drunk girl where starting hitting on me.
Made it more complicated for HBplatina.
She was getting more attracted.

Till now, i am pre-selected, builded some jealousie, showed how cool i am, and my interesting topics in my conversation(btw read the book freakonomics, then you will have really DHV stories and conversation topics)

Isolated with the target

The people was getting to the beach, i said i already had a bath today, i am staying in the house...
Hbplatina said she didn't want to bath either(she was trying to calibrate herself)
An afc tryed to convince her... i started amog him!
TVA: damn so fucking cool haircut, look i had the same 5 years ago... look(showed my id, which was soon out of date)
TVA: nice jewelery, is that for getting attention?
The guy was only trying to befriended me.
The guys was needed, Hbplatina didn't want to come, i said for acting less needy: just go if you want, i am staying here.
With all the attraction and dhv i got.... she could only stay... i knew that.

The guy tryed hard, he die hard! want a good rule? Never even think about stealing a girl form a guy from masf!! Those afc should all knew that.

At the house it was HBplatina, HBSleepy, me and a friend of a friend, which is Rafc.

The HBsleepy(i give her 7 btw) layed down on my friend on a bench in the garden, yes we all went outside... i was a beautifull and hot night.
I think i took 40mins before he kissed her lol!!!

I where some kind of isolated with my HBplatina.

TVA: You are really cute! (pull)
HER: thanks
TVA: not the cutest but very cute! (push)
TVA: it looks that you are a person which very care abotu her looking, i must say you know alot about fashion, but something tell's me you don't care when you are having a good time (cold reading, on easy lvl)
HER: oh

While talking i was focusing a lot on mirroring BL... this is an easy and very good tool while isolated.

I did the RJ routines which i fucking love!!!

TVA: Can you remember, a good time, last time when on a trip at the beach? What do you like with the beach?
HER: i loved parting
TVA: of course you did, but something more specific about the beach...
HER: the water and the sand
TVA: i can agree with you, the summer, the beautiful sun is warming up you whole body, you feel a powerful energy going in you whole body.. while laying down on the sand, which are so, which is so soft..(touch her legs, shaved and soft..)
And the water cleaning you mind!...

YeaH one of the only time TVA using them Milton model in the field lol!

The pattern worked as hell.

USe of lock-in-prop:
HER: i like your bracelet(she took it and put it on her hand), can i borrow it to the next time we meet?
TVA: yeah sure, just take good care of it
NR: closed her.. : since you have to give it back to me... you maybe should give me you phone number(no flake, not difficult to number close)


She stated put her leg over my knees, sitting closer, smiled to me, think i catched 100 IOI's, but building more attraction was fucking fun!

TVA: Why am i talking to you right now, I'm really not the kind of guy which is into blond, I'm more after brunettes...
HER: oh.... seriously? (she felt very disqualified)
HER: well, me too i prefer guy with brown hair and brown eyes, We have something in comment then( i am a guy with brown hair, and brown eyes... oh those girls are so cute when they try to qualifies themselves)
I saw the DDB in her eyes, lets just fucking kiss close...

took her on my knees, give her EC, looks in her eyes and down on her lips, and back to her eyes(cred: face_man)

Got my face closer, starting getting the nose to nose.. Then kissed... and pulled back...
TVA: No I'mm really not into blonds, I shouldn't kiss you...
HER:... (looked sad..)

Then go for the real kiss!!
Then i recommend to go straight to the neck and to the ears...


I could fucked her right there... at that moment.... i did the big mistake to not do it.

The other people came back... I didn't see jhonnyBoy, but i saw Arny hooked with his babe.. look''s like it went well.
I then took my babe inside the house, at the
research of the seduction place.

No room which we could lock.. fuck!! not even the toilette!!!

FUCK FUCK FUCK!!!

Took her to a more isolated room, started doing more kino escalation... touch bra, touch her pussy with pants on, touched pussy under her pants... kissing ears... boobs, neck..
She touched my crotch touched her, started jacking me started fingering her, blow blow lick lick...... someone opened the door... every 10 minutes... i seriously gave up!!!

We had to go at that moment.... Fuck if didn't lost my time of searching for a place to fuck i would make, i could banged her while everyone was away i had time do it...

Anyway, we all learn form away mistake, and i am 100% this stupid shit wont happen again.

Getting laid is about playing the right card.. i played them all right, but not the last one...

she gave me what Cosy call a bootycheque...

While leaving i gave all the girls hugs.. and the host too, she took my hand, and hold them for a while, lol she liked me hahahah

I've hard those days that this girl is a very bitchy girl, hard to get... she always reject guys which are hitting on her... That gave me hell good confidence!


Conclusion


We are planning meeting again, and she is more enthusiastic to meet again on the phone than me... i think i s gonna be great... don't worry i wont set a ltr with her...

NB: the reason this is a lay report is... it contain some oral stuff... and after maj opinion, its in the sex book. Yes he argued on me last time i call it fr++... LOL

That was My Lr, hope you enjoyed.
Feel free to discuss, and give opinions... post on!


After The Party

This is just fun read...
First High Five to all the buds.. on the way home to a friend.
TVA: damn i should have banged her in the attic
Arny: No you couldn't i was banging my chick there
TVA: hahahah lol.

We went to Arnys place.. with johnny and Jeppe(worlds nr 1 beer drinker).

I had to sleep in a singelbed with Jhonnyboy... Fuck i didn't want to sleep with ADHD kid... my plan was sleep with my girl fuck!! LOL There where no other place to sit...
We awaked early in the morning for getting a kebab... hum damn it tastes good after partying lol... we so much fun of giving birds outside nick name: Hank VON Fly, El-Retardo... LOL

Johnnyboy didn't have his ADHD pills, so we had so fun listening to him on the street LOL. His aka on Masf is JohnG, he is inactive, cause he hate writing lol... he is based on field experience...

More Report on the way.. summer coming, sarging awaiting!

Cya later guy!
Keep commenting!

Few things to keep in mind here:
- It is a house party... so there is rapport already which allowed me to get away with the behaviour presented in the rapport
- I had social proof from being friend with the host and hanging with "cool kids".
- The girl was into me from the get go - disqualification and push/pull increases compliance only if there is a baseline compliance from the get-go
- The girl was damaged goods (She has done plenty of plastic surgery since - although she was beautiful back then. This type of asshole game works really well on those girls.

This is why I want to add commentaries if I repost them (with major language edits) since as a more freshman pua I failed to understand every factor at play. Also understand that my meet-to-lay ratio at that time was not consistent. This was more a lucky break night (hail marry) than I originally though if I were to be honest.

Another, more technical report.... from 2009... from after I had met Cosy (cody lyans) and Sleazy (dance floor and escalation god, who has now turned into a bitter man...). This is one of the wilder ones...

Happy new year. I got some older lr's I haven't posted. Like my days in Switzerland and france. How I met my 1 week GF who worked as a hairdresser, who I met when I ent out for cutting my hair, in a town of 25 000 people... I miss her.

It was THE day, new year eve. We are still in 2009. My trip to my Grandparents in the alpes really helped my state, I had to get out of my head. Now I am back in a good period.

Anyway, I ate some dinner, and got myself ready. A cool jean from Diesel (OMG i love Diesel), a V-shirt with a cool draft on from Lee, and a black dressjacket with some black leather shoes, was in my opinion classy, but fact is, they didn't let me in the club, because I weren't in smoking. Dude I am out to party, smoking? WTF?

I went there with Grekos, one of the wisest men I have met. He is a badass with women. He got in before me...
Sadly when I found out I didn't get in, and tried to reach him, he was already on coke and drunk.

In the queue outside, I met some girls I have met before, one asked for my number. By mistake I gave her my mums number. I also met Charlie, a model who busted me having sex once. She talked loud about "halloween 2008" were I fucked a girl in the ass in a nurseuit, she was the one busting me. She saw my cock and ass.

Funky thing is, that the girl beside heard the words: "excibitionist, fucked in public, anal sex....busted while having sex... fucking hard", in fact she overheard the convo. She started getting into me. This is not social proof, but sexual proof

It's 12 o clock, Happy new year... I fired up a champagne, named "LaFitte", which means LaPussy in norwegian. So I shouted to girls, want some pussy?
They all said yes, and drank some champagne from me. I drank the rest. The party was better outside the club than inside. I decided to head to Club Nexus, a smaller venue which I knew I would get in, because they didn't have "smoking" dresscode.

Arriving there, I got in, I met barney. A super big guy, over 2m10. He is a party god, and is a womnizer. He is into pick up apparently, but not posting on forums much. He took a glass of champagne and leaked it all over my face and I shouted "woooooah"

I was getting a bit fuzzy. But this didn't last long, because I drink big amounts of water while in club. 30 min to 1 hour later I was fully sober again.

While a bit drunk, I still danced. This is a cockfest. Chodes everywere. 70% men around.

I see 2 hooties sitting. I infront of them in order to hover. Hbcutie looked at me and smiled. I gave her a deep look. My EC is super sharp. Then I lick my lips slowly,and bite them, and smile while poiting at her. Then she tried to return it someway but instead of giving her attention Ikept dancing. Then I saw Tim, Tim is a great guy. I do some attention whoring kind of dancing with him. Like when you close to the person, face to face, girls often do that.

I sat on the sofa beside hbblond, hbcutes friend. She engaged me: "Hey whats your name", I was still fuzzed, so game mode was off. I kind of answered: My name is: Dominance! and yours?
HBblond: Hbblond, how old are you?
TVA: no more interviews

I left, I met hbCathy, a girl I knew which is really cool. She is one of the bartenders GF, the bartender is a cool dude. Pingo, is a bartender toay, he is also a good friend. Sadly he didn't give me much attention because he was busy working.

I am getting sober again. Full controle. Yes I sarge bad when I am a bit fuzzed or drunk. I say fuzzed, but I was fully conscious, I drank 2 glasses of my champagne, which isn't much for a heavy guy like me.

I went back to hbcutie. Sat down beside her and started talking with her. Fluffed randomly about the night. I claimed that there were too many guys out there that night. And we randomly got into a sexual topic.


Hbcutie: And guys, are always thinking about one thing?
TVA: and so are you!
Hbcutie: no I am not.
TVA: Maybeyou are not only thinking about one thing but I know you are thinking about the thing (sex)?
HBcutie: The thing is sex right?
TVA: yeah, something really natural! I am not very much into getting laid, I mean if I get laid, she is the lucky one because I am going to fuck the shit out of her! but if I don't get any laid I don't really care, because I have some cool female friends (okey I wasn't sure if i would get away with this one)
HBcutie: You fuck your friends? I wouldn't do it.
TVA: yeah I do, I love having multiple partners. We all have some kind of fetishes! Btw about fucking friends, I kissed my male friend for 2 weeks ago!
Hbcutie: That's hot but isn't it a bit weird? are you gay? I don't believe you that you had balls to kiss a man. Most men are homofobics.
TVA: no, I am just sexually open!
Hbcutie: You like a lot of fancy things, Do you like chineses too? (wtf)
TVA: yeah, I met one once, she was crazy.
Hbcutie: My ex is a chinese, he loved licking inside my ear! I hope you are not into that!
TVA: not my thing, If I wanna lick anything it would be a wet pussy.

I saw HBblond, her friend... bored, so I engaged in by grabbing her hand and relaxing. Sexual tension mode

I left the dj disc, he played "I will follow - Bingo players"
http://www1.zippyshare.com/v/54256472/file.html

A hot Latina were dancing besdie him. I do some sexual facial expression like posing. She responded well. I kept doing so for a minute, and wawed her over. She came and danced sexually with me, in a way I have never done before... Yes in the reggaeton style of dancing were bends over and shake her ass into me. Never experienced this, when I dance sexually with a girl, its mostly face to face. Her nice ass was really grinding into me. I start breathing around her neck. She got ASD kick and left back to the DJ.

I went back to my 2 girls, In fact that night was limited with options.
A guy was trying to kiss HBcute. We call him MR.needy. She was far from interested and moved her head away. He kept persisting by putting his head close to her. I decided I had to amog, for the first time in a while.

Go gaymogging. I start touching him. And say "hey hey cutie boy" and keep flirting with him. He freaked out and left, but on the way he introduced me to a gay guy. Actually, this gay guy had a good sense of fashion and a much cooler behaviour than most guy in the club, he was litterally cool.

I dance with him infront of my girls. I escalate on him. Touching the back of his head and I tongue him down. He was an amazing kisser. I told him that he shouldn't expect anything from me that night, and that I did this just for fun. It was okey for him. The girls were amazed, but a bit freaked out. I sat down beside hbcutie

Hbcutie: Ha, that was hot, but a bit weird.
TVA: Maybe, but why is kissing a man wrong? and why is 2 girls kissing each other good? Why is it cool for me to lay 10 girls, and bad if you do so... by the way you really deserves it.
HBcutie: Hahah I know. Yeah you are right.
TVA: wanna go out, I want to smoke.
HBcutie: It's cold outside (-15 celcius)
TVA: you can burrow my jackett...

I tried to isolate. A cool song appeared, so I take her up for dancing, she wasn't up for i, but I insisted she came, gridning into me. For from a good dancer. I grab her lift her up. He knees are on my hips.

Like this: http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak ... 4167_n.jpg
(pic from another night)

She I started moving around with her on me and I were fucking here. I highfive Tim on the way.

I went out for my smoke, because I really needed it. Outside I chatted with the bouncer. He was Croatian, and we talked about Croatian girls, and beer. Cool dude.

Back in, a guy have approached hbblond. And i could see she had no interest in him. I rarely amog, but the options were limited that night. So I amog him out.
TVA: you guys fit so well togheter... (pushing their heads against each other, she pushed away). She blows him out.

Hbcutie is sitting beside at an orbiter sitting beside. Later on the gay guy took over.

She thanked me and said I was a really cool guy.
She talked to me, I surely fluffed about sex, but she had a strong vibe. These are the girls you really want to create sexual tension with. I grab her hand, she grabs it too. I breath strongly, feel the energies, the bubble building up.
I start Starring at her... getting closer and closer to her face. I put my chick against her, she kisses is passionatly and moves her lips against mine. But I don't kiss, intstead i softly lick around her lips. She close her eyes, really enjoying it.

Then we kiss, I am good kisser, so i bite her lips..

Then I push her away. I still too early to f-close.

I went the bathroom took a pee. On the way out I saw a cutie. Hbbrunnette.

TVA: hey.... (touching her shoulders...)
HBbrunnette: (Turns around...), hey...!
TVA: (bedroom eyes, grabbing her putting our bodies close to each other)... I love feeeling your titties...
HBbrunnette: Grrrr (grabbing her titties).

I met Tim and danced with him, untill I head out.
I spot Hbbrunnette with a guy... who was talking to her.
She saluted me and I saluted the guy.
TVA: she is my new friend... (grabbing hbrunnette)
HBbrunnette: Oh yeah... (grabbing me back)
Chode: (Talking about politics and crap and talked about how much he don't care about things...)
TVA: you know i don't care about how much you don't care about things...
HBbrunnette: Hahaha we met a even more careface here, nice

Hbbrunnettes starts holding around me, things get really sexual between us. The chode was kept outside but didn't get the idea.

TVA: if you keep touching me like this, I am going to be a really badboy!
Hbbrunnette: I like that!
TVA: badgirl!

While pulling her hair... chode mentioned something about the prime minister... I don't care, and he didn't care either, that I didn't care. I pulled her head behind while grabbing her hair and licked her neck. She started kissing me. I tongued her down while carressing her tigh and put liften one of her legs so that her knee reach my hip.

TVA: Dude... please... can't you understand we want some intimacy?
Hbbrunnette: Yeah get off (to the orbiter hahaha)

The song Greece 2000 appeared, and the remix i loved.
http://www4.zippyshare.com/v/88006163/file.html

I pull her inside. she had to leave in a minute. I didn't care. I smash her into the dj stall, and made out with her really hard. It was like we were both in bed already and just explosed of horniness. This is a quick tip, act like you were in bed on the dancefloor.
I touch her tight, suck her neck, I bite it.. she moans. I go from the hips to her pussy and stimulates her clit with pants on. I tried to get under her pants but she removed it. I took her hand and placed in on my croatch she rubbed it. She then fished for my cock and started jacking it. At that time I thought I could finger her. But sadly my fingers are so shot that I only stimulated her clit. I put down my pants a bit so my cock gets out. She jacks it off really hard. My jackett is hiding it and we are face to face really close to each other. So I know some of you might had the wrong impression of dancefloor handjobs... but you don't flash your cock out in public, you just make a bit available. She put my hand on her titts.

The bouncer stood 2 meters away and gave me an eye. I had to bathroom pull.
Gadly the stall were 100% isolated and not like in the highclass venue in geneve were I heard the guy crapping while I fucked a chick. I also smelled it.

On the way she asked me if I had a gf. Me rejecting the crappy pua advices said: " I am single" which resultet to: "you better be".

In the stall we kissed and touched each other

There was a little queue. Barney was there, I push him away when it was his turn and smash her into the bathroom. I found out I forgot my condoms. It disapointed her, but I told her we could have oral sex. She objected...

" I don't even know you" which I answered with "me neither, but okey let's just touch each other"

I finger her really hard. She order me to sit down, because she wanted to suck me off. Sick how girls change opinions. She asked me what I liked. I answered deepthroats. And she deepthroated hard like a pro. It's sick how crazy women becomes when you turn them on.

She sucked cock, like if that was something she really loved. She really digged my cock. I asked her if liked cock. she answered "yes".... I answered: "I just had to check if you were a normal girl!"

She sucked for long. I told her I would cum in her mounth. I told her she had to tell me what she likes because I wanted to give something back after the BJ, but she said that this was what she liked, and in fact women love giving orgasms more than men. Men are more about receiving.

I came in her mounth, she left, because she had to go, her friend were waiting. I gave her a goodbye hug. I never knew her name.

I saw my 2 girls, hbblondcutie and hbblond. I isolate hbblond. Funky enought when I came over I still had an erection and my pants halfway down.

I took hbblond to a more quiet area, while the gay dude was talking to hbcutie, I used him as a wing to isoalte . People started to leave. It was soon closing time. We sat on a sofa.

We fluffed. I talked about how sex was no bigdeal and a natural thing, just discribing my view on it. I told her that I don't really care about sex much anymore... that i loved it but care if i don't fuck today, because i will surely fuck tomorow

Hbblond "yeah of course you like it, it's natural we all do so..."
TVA: Yeah I mean, if i go home with a girl.. she either have to fuck me, or do something fun, like playing Xbox or something, because if she just goes to sleep, it's boring why bring someoene home.. in that case?
HBblond: Well that's because she wants to sleep with you!
TVA: maybe but "something fun" or sex is better. And I hate sleeping with people.
Hbblond: sure, but when you are tired you want to sleep.
TVA: You and you are friend are really beautiful,I wouldn't have any problems to do anything with you... but I don't need sex, I can jack off, I love jacking off!
Hbblond
TVA: Yeah I am fucking horny right now (statement of sexual intent)

She started putting her knees into mine and facing me, and just look at my lips... always... I fluffed about topics, I am not sure if she cared about them...

I did some sexual tension talk. Discribed sexual tension and escalated verbally to sexual tension. In fact it's about explaining sexual tension and how create it and do in the same time.

HBblond: you really like talking don't you...
TVA: yeah... (it's my personality)
HBblond: Maybe we can stop talking for a bit?
TVA: sure...

She tongued me down..

She then sat on and started moving her hips like if she were fucking me with clothes on.
She moaned...

TVA: I know, you wann fuck, but I don't wanna bring you home... because it would be a mess. I hate sleeping with people
HBblond: (Making a disapointed face...)
TVA: okey then... relax...

I put my hand under her shirt, and start fingring the shit out of her. Hahah loved it, I did my best to hide it.

Then hbcutie came with our gayfriend I made out with earlier. I just finished my job on hbblond. He kissed hbcutie. I told the gaydude to pull her to the bathroom. He objected since he was gay and never fucked a chick before, but I convinced him to try it. He did so and it worked, since I did escalate on her for him earlier and removed some of her ASD.

He came back all happy, he liked it and highfived me. The girls said we were the coolest guys ever, what an ego stroke!

The clubs was closing. I fluffed with my new firend and left with gay dude.

We decided to share a cab since we lived in the same direction. We talked about sex and we both learned a lot from each other.

I took a cab after a while and went home and played COD2.

Happy new year.

TVA

Mind you the following factors in this report:
- I had crazy state that night - I was simply on fire. Crazy momentum. Now, I find it more "worthy" to get good pulls on low momentum since it is harder. Back then I was less consistent (these days I can still pull on low momentum - although usually less hot girls and a bit less frequently - I wont do the 10 a month streak but maybe a good 4 a month!)
- I was socially proofed.
- Notice how I do get some resistance and indirectly so rejections. My game was more direct and in your face which had a lot of firepower, but also led to it backfiring a few times.
- This high risk/high reward approach, where I am more sexually explicit and direct worked very well with my high energy personality as a young age. It is less congruent to me now... My meet to lay ratio was also much weaker than now (mine is currently known to be pretty good and consistent).
- The girl who sucked me off was into me from the get-go - or at least showed major signs of interest.
- Related to the above, keep in mind that I only approached girls who did show interest to me. I had (and still have) very good screening game which I learned from the master and innovator himself - Sleazy. These days I still sometimes still relies on screening (low-momentum nights, nights where I am tired, or dealing with huge and chaotic venues that does not allow for smooth game) but I prefer not to as I would rather just be the chooser and go for THAT girl or THAT group (which can only be done in smaller venues where I can play the social proof game or venues where I can smoothly deliver my verbals.
- Notice also that I am in a club where I know the bouncer, the bartenders and so on (I even had my own cocktail there that I got for a good price). This helps a lot.

Please point me to them.

And why are they lost, the old forum locking them? Or an even older forum?

They were posted on mASF (pre-nextasf - basically the original pick up forum from the glory-days. It is gone now and the archive is not accessible through the website anymore.

I find that every once in a while when I'm just improvising, I come up with some great material.

It is called luck... or high momentum!

Actually a failing of mine is trying to take a golden line and insert it into a new situation where it doesn't quite work. I have to actually work it out and put it in a routine if I want to do it. But sometimes I just throw it out again and it falls flat.

That's how field testing works.
That's how routines are create (or simply thrown away!)

BTW each thing that works in field has to be reflected upon at home in order to make it a routine and before redelivering it again in field.

And with time, you get a feel of what works conditionally, and what things are more universally reliable (or at least can work in more situations).

Ex. On Wednesday this girl said she hadn't had sex in three months and later (and not directly in response to the line either) I said "I'm sure you enjoy your toy collection" which was a bastardization of a line I delivered a while ago where a girl said she didn't like "girls or guys" (basically, she was just a little anti-social and hurt by someone in the past) and I said "in that case, you must have quite the toy collection" to an uproar of laughter (not to mention, it immediately turned things sexual).

Hah. Actually a good one-liner.

Ok, so if you could redo that seduction, how would you have changed it? Or would you not have? (Because it worked great)

That depends on the reports in question. But no, let the past be the past. What worked, worked. We don't try to change that. I'd rather focus my energy on things that failed.

Or, how would you approach a similar situation differently with your new persona?

More sophisticated, calm, smooth and intriguing Less explicit, high energy and wild.

Aging is a real thing.

Swinggcat is someone I never got into. Although I recognize the name. Are some of his ideas or the way he implements them worth looking into?

Many of his concepts are still valid. Check out his classic "Real World Seduction" (get the revised 2.0 version). His inner game advice is shit however.

Ok it is late now. If I do not respond right away, it is because I am sleeping.



Best,

 

[Watts]

I would say that now, as an odler person I consider this bad behavior. But hey, I was 16! who can blame me!

Not me! And 16 year old me would have loved to have fucked two girls in the same night!

"SHUT UP" i said
" I Guess you have a lot of beers with you, and if you find my friend cute, why don't you hook up with him?"

TVA showed 100% alphaness lol.

It's funny how basically rejecting a girl, or calling her on her bullshit puts you in state. And, as a corollary, getting taken advantage of takes you out of it (getting played).

I also theorize this is the same with girls. Like some girls who are in a low state, either generally because they have bad personalities or lives, or maybe they are mediocre looking and feel bad when out and there is the socializing and sexualizing (like at a bar on a Friday night), will try and do this sort of thing to guys, even ones they may find attractive, in order to feel better about themselves. Just a thought.

I always push her away.. i said like: Do you like when strangers touch your boobs? i guess no, get away from my hair!
Then go for ass spanking!( she was damn hot girl a 9 maybe?!)

Love this.

A drunk girl actually helped me DHV, she was so drunk that she said she could sleep with me.
She didn't act drunk, but she was saying, oh you are so cute.
Don't think girl only find me cute while their drunk lol.

I like this response a lot.

Also, a thought on social proofing.

In some sense girls are negotiating on your interest and commitment, in exchange for sex (or the possibility of it), so when they see other girls are already offering you a lower price (being sexual without you showing overt interest or fawning attention), they start to undersell themselves i.e. like the hot girl touches your hair and then drunk girl thinks "damn, unless I straight up tell him he can fuck me, I'm going to lose my chance, better do that now so I can get him". So in that sense, it really creates pressure on them to make a deal so to speak then and there.

The people was getting to the beach, i said i already had a bath today, i am staying in the house...
Hbplatina said she didn't want to bath either(she was trying to calibrate herself)

I read this as her trying to relate to you, get you to like her (perhaps you meant something else by her calibrating). It reminds me of me complimenting a girl on having a unique name, saying I liked it, and then she said she liked my name back (my name is fairly generic). Another example, the girl from Friday and I were relating on a lot of stuff and later when I said something funny (she laughed with me), I laughed till I teared up a bit and she said "I do that too". In other words, it was a sincere but transparent attempt to build rapport (and a lot of times, girls are clumsy in expressing their interest).

The guys was needed, Hbplatina didn't want to come, i said for acting less needy: just go if you want, i am staying here.
With all the attraction and dhv i got.... she could only stay... i knew that.

This is something I need to learn to do consistently. Just one little push. I like it.

TVA: Why am i talking to you right now, I'm really not the kind of guy which is into blond, I'm more after brunettes...
HER: oh.... seriously? (she felt very disqualified)
HER: well, me too i prefer guy with brown hair and brown eyes, We have something in comment then( i am a guy with brown hair, and brown eyes... oh those girls are so cute when they try to qualifies themselves)

In your opinion today, was that a little harsh? For instance, would you add ..."there must be something about you" after "oh...seriously", like a little miniature emotional rollercoaster?

And following up

TVA: No I'mm really not into blonds, I shouldn't kiss you...
HER:... (looked sad..)

So is it more, you are not sure why you like her, won't verbalize, but it's taking over you?

- The girl was damaged goods (She has done plenty of plastic surgery since - although she was beautiful back then. This type of asshole game works really well on those girls.

This may be at least part of the answer to above. Also, it's one issue I have with asshole game, is that I'm aware it works better on girls with unhealthy emotional habits. And, the guys who are most insistent on using it, tend to have their own issues.

Further, it's my belief that people with emotional issues can't recognize that they have them, or that others have them. To them it's just normal. While healthy people see it, usually quickly, and avoid them.

Just going to post this as a response to the first one. Then I'll do the other next.

 

[Watts]

Funky thing is, that the girl beside heard the words: "excibitionist, fucked in public, anal sex....busted while having sex... fucking hard", in fact she overheard the convo. She started getting into me. This is not social proof, but sexual proof

That's one concept I really like of yours (I learned it from you), sexual proof. With this girl Friday I asked if there was anything she didn't like, sexually, and she told me some guy she hooked up with was all about her feet (haha). So I said, "I'm more of a boob guy. Which works out, since you have nice boobs." (She had already told me they were her favorite physical asset of hers, and they were very nice)

It's 12 o clock, Happy new year... I fired up a champagne, named "LaFitte", which means LaPussy in norwegian. So I shouted to girls, want some pussy?

A proper way to get into a sexual state. Basically, an excuse to yell PUSSY! and have that energy returned by some girls.

I see 2 hooties sitting. I infront of them in order to hover. Hbcutie looked at me and smiled. I gave her a deep look. My EC is super sharp. Then I lick my lips slowly,and bite them, and smile while poiting at her. Then she tried to return it someway but instead of giving her attention Ikept dancing. Then I saw Tim, Tim is a great guy. I do some attention whoring kind of dancing with him. Like when you close to the person, face to face, girls often do that.

One thing I do is pounce on IOI's. But I appreciate this, taking a little slower approach. Maybe work the room some.

TVA: yeah, something really natural! I am not very much into getting laid, I mean if I get laid, she is the lucky one because I am going to fuck the shit out of her! but if I don't get any laid I don't really care, because I have some cool female friends (okey I wasn't sure if i would get away with this one)

I love this frame. Great preempt on who the "lucky one" is.

HBcutie: You fuck your friends? I wouldn't do it.
TVA: yeah I do, I love having multiple partners. We all have some kind of fetishes! Btw about fucking friends, I kissed my male friend for 2 weeks ago!

I love this. Just putting it out there for her, let her talk about her fetishes (or her multiple partners!).

TVA: Maybe, but why is kissing a man wrong? and why is 2 girls kissing each other good? Why is it cool for me to lay 10 girls, and bad if you do so... by the way you really deserves it.

Wow. "You really deserve it." Fantastic.

I went the bathroom took a pee. On the way out I saw a cutie. Hbbrunnette.

TVA: hey.... (touching her shoulders...)
HBbrunnette: (Turns around...), hey...!
TVA: (bedroom eyes, grabbing her putting our bodies close to each other)... I love feeeling your titties...
HBbrunnette: Grrrr (grabbing her titties).

So that was your first time seeing/interacting with her?

You mentioned being in state, and I can definitely relate when I'm in that mode and primed to respond quickly to a girl's interest (and of course, generate it more). Also, generally aggressive, closing distance quickly and getting physical quickly.

I put down my pants a bit so my cock gets out. She jacks it off really hard. My jackett is hiding it and we are face to face really close to each other. So I know some of you might had the wrong impression of dancefloor handjobs.

I used to wear jeans. Then I switched to softer pants like chinos and dress pants... in part for this reason! Want to give girls easy access! lol

On the way she asked me if I had a gf. Me rejecting the crappy pua advices said: " I am single" which resultet to: "you better be".

What's the crappy pua advice, "It's complicated"? And I like her asking this, and the follow up.

" I don't even know you" which I answered with "me neither, but okey let's just touch each other"

I finger her really hard. She order me to sit down, because she wanted to suck me off. Sick how girls change opinions. She asked me what I liked. I answered deepthroats. And she deepthroated hard like a pro. It's sick how crazy women becomes when you turn them on.

Smoothly handled. And just touching, especially if it means touching her pussy, is only leading to one place...

She sucked cock, like if that was something she really loved. She really digged my cock. I asked her if liked cock. she answered "yes".... I answered: "I just had to check if you were a normal girl!"

Liking sex (cock) is normal for girls. I like your instinct to reinforce it.

She sucked for long. I told her I would cum in her mounth. I told her she had to tell me what she likes because I wanted to give something back after the BJ, but she said that this was what she liked, and in fact women love giving orgasms more than men. Men are more about receiving.

And make the extra effort to please her.

We fluffed. I talked about how sex was no bigdeal and a natural thing, just discribing my view on it. I told her that I don't really care about sex much anymore... that i loved it but care if i don't fuck today, because i will surely fuck tomorow

Hbblond "yeah of course you like it, it's natural we all do so..."
TVA: Yeah I mean, if i go home with a girl.. she either have to fuck me, or do something fun, like playing Xbox or something, because if she just goes to sleep, it's boring why bring someoene home.. in that case?
HBblond: Well that's because she wants to sleep with you!
TVA: maybe but "something fun" or sex is better. And I hate sleeping with people.
Hbblond: sure, but when you are tired you want to sleep.
TVA: You and you are friend are really beautiful,I wouldn't have any problems to do anything with you... but I don't need sex, I can jack off, I love jacking off!
Hbblond
TVA: Yeah I am fucking horny right now (statement of sexual intent)

This is a short but wild interaction. Sex is no big deal, will get it tomorrow if not today. You can come home with me but only if for sex or xbox lol. And then "I can just jack off" not as a defeat (or something shameful) but as something to celebrate! Fascinating stuff.

- Related to the above, keep in mind that I only approached girls who did show interest to me. I had (and still have) very good screening game which I learned from the master and innovator himself - Sleazy. These days I still sometimes still relies on screening (low-momentum nights, nights where I am tired, or dealing with huge and chaotic venues that does not allow for smooth game) but I prefer not to as I would rather just be the chooser and go for THAT girl or THAT group (which can only be done in smaller venues where I can play the social proof game or venues where I can smoothly deliver my verbals.

I take it you're talking about only approaching girls who seem open or interested in you from the start, as opposed to the more difficult sets.

Can you explain in more detail your good screening game? What do you do that makes your screening game uniquely good?

And also "huge and chaotic venues that does not allow for smooth game" being heavily dependent on screening is a good point. Hadn't thought of that.

- Notice also that I am in a club where I know the bouncer, the bartenders and so on (I even had my own cocktail there that I got for a good price). This helps a lot.

Couldn't agree more on that. I strongly prefer to find a good spot that I can come back to again and again with local celebrity status.

They were posted on mASF (pre-nextasf - basically the original pick up forum from the glory-days. It is gone now and the archive is not accessible through the website anymore.

Hate to see it. But this stuff you're posting is great anyway.

That's how field testing works.
That's how routines are create (or simply thrown away!)

BTW each thing that works in field has to be reflected upon at home in order to make it a routine and before redelivering it again in field.

And with time, you get a feel of what works conditionally, and what things are more universally reliable (or at least can work in more situations).

True. I need to be more disciplined in creating routines, both in mining my experience for them and in rolling them out.

One thing I have done in past (which I'm trying to do with some new ones) is go out and just try to create a situation to use a routine 10 times (meaning I have to do at least 10 unique sets). Even if it's a little awkward, just to get the delivery right. And also sometimes switching it up and seeing what fits best.

But there is probably a balanced approach where I say I have to deliver it 5 times or something like that, because I can also miss out on a real opportunity in a particular set in my attempt to work out a new routine.

Hah. Actually a good one-liner.

Thank you!

That depends on the reports in question. But no, let the past be the past. What worked, worked. We don't try to change that. I'd rather focus my energy on things that failed.

Fair point.

More sophisticated, calm, smooth and intriguing Less explicit, high energy and wild.

A little slower buildup, and less to push back against, because telling a girl she's looking for someone to sleep with, could potentially backfire (Although, the underlying belief is there, about sex being natural and good, and I think that hedges against pushback).

Perhaps in some sense, being willing to take your time to get out the really juicy parts, because you're building intrigue with the way you talk... and pause... and "pace and lead".... as well as solid fundamentals and body language.

Aging is a real thing.

I'm almost a decade your senior... tell me about it! haha

But, a good fitness regime does a lot.

Many of his concepts are still valid. Check out his classic "Real World Seduction" (get the revised 2.0 version). His inner game advice is shit however.

Ok it is late now. If I do not respond right away, it is because I am sleeping.



Best,

Will do. And I appreciate the warning on his inner game.

And thanks for all the in-depth responses!

 

[Teevster]

Comments to the feedback on the push and pull/disqualification and qualification report.

Not me! And 16 year old me would have loved to have fucked two girls in the same night!

I probably had the sickest adolescence one could have imagined. I mean I grew up in the pick-up community.

Most people's sexuality forms itself at around that age. mine was formed with the community. The advantage of joining in so young were twofold:
- You learn faster as a young kid (this is a known fact in pedagogy)
- Most people who join here needs to work a lot of deprogramming themselves from bad beliefs and habits. This process takes a long time for many. In my case, I had nothing to deprogram since i was so young. I started on a fresh template.

So people who read my reports and wonder "how did you get good so fast.." they now know the answer. Additionally it is key to mention that pick was (and still is) my number one hobby. I was truly obsessed with this - I spent time on forums daily and went out as much as I could. This helps a lot too.

Being the youngest known poster on mASF granted me certain privileges too, since many of the veteran wanted to help the young one - it is like I was their little experiment. Some got a kick from seeing a young super seducer (hence my nickname "the young prodigy"). However the other half hated me for being so young - they claimed I did not understand the full picture because i was immature (they were partly right too! but there were things that I did understand very well).

It was an interesting time for me!

It's funny how basically rejecting a girl, or calling her on her bullshit puts you in state. And, as a corollary, getting taken advantage of takes you out of it (getting played).

That was more of an ego trip that would do me nothing now. I would still not like being taken advantage of, but rejecting a girl do me nothing now. Remember, this is over 10 years ago! I was 16. I am now 27 soon 28!

I also theorize this is the same with girls. Like some girls who are in a low state, either generally because they have bad personalities or lives, or maybe they are mediocre looking and feel bad when out and there is the socializing and sexualizing (like at a bar on a Friday night), will try and do this sort of thing to guys, even ones they may find attractive, in order to feel better about themselves. Just a thought.

That is a good observation and I agree. I also believe that my confidence was not at 100% back then. I went from school loser to a guy with success. It changes you, but you still keep some element of the school loser in you - at least for a while. This is like the ugly girl who turn hot - she will turn into a bitch and get pleasure from being an ass to guys.

I was the ugly girl who turned hot.

Also, a thought on social proofing.

In some sense girls are negotiating on your interest and commitment, in exchange for sex (or the possibility of it), so when they see other girls are already offering you a lower price (being sexual without you showing overt interest or fawning attention), they start to undersell themselves i.e. like the hot girl touches your hair and then drunk girl thinks "damn, unless I straight up tell him he can fuck me, I'm going to lose my chance, better do that now so I can get him". So in that sense, it really creates pressure on them to make a deal so to speak then and there.

Yes I was not aware of this back then, but it happens sometimes when there is female competition. For example last year I was talking to this bombshell Belarussian girl. She was a 10 in my book. A 7 (subjective rating, but objectively less good looking).
A french chick (was in Denmark, before I moved to France) who I had interacted and hooked earlier came into my interaction and tried to outcompete the hot girl, which failed.

The losing french girl, changed gears and started openly offering me blowjobs (in French, which only I understood) and telling me how good she was.

Interesting thing here is that it forced the PUA - or I in this case to make a decision:
a) Go for the hot Bellarussian. She is hooked sure, but not guarranteed lay
b) or call it a night and go with the french girl and get a hopefully good BJ (and prob sex). This girl would prob be a more eager fuck.

Option a) was the one I chose because I had high momentum and was not in need. I also due to my momentum knew I had good odds of sealing the deal with her (I failed but ended up with an almost equally hot british girl - which I would like to make point about*)
Option b) would be good on low momentum where you need to get some action in order to get the machine going again. It is your priority. Additionally, with low momentum I know that my skills are less good than on high, so in which case I accept that I must choose the easier way. It is like being forced to choose the cheaper product when you are broke.

Being aware of your situation and act accordingly (making the right decision) is in itself a skill or a sign of experience.

* Since I failed with the Bellarussian girl (she lived in Sweden and had to take a train with her gay friend) and it being so close, frustrated me, which put me in what I call "angry mode" which is basically triggers me into god mode. Because of the frustration of failing in such a way (especially when it is close), I feel motivated to take pick up seriously and delivers thing 100%.

A real issue (or call it "sticking point") that I experience the better I get is lazyness (You have gotten so many lays, you do not need to prove shit to yourself no more, nor to anyone else) and you start taking shortcuts. You simply don't deliver things 100%. But when I get get frustrating and enter angry mode... it is like superman mode where I give in 100%. It usually ends well. In fact, in this case, I venue changed and pulled the girl from the line... we did not even enter the club.

I read this as her trying to relate to you, get you to like her (perhaps you meant something else by her calibrating). It reminds me of me complimenting a girl on having a unique name, saying I liked it, and then she said she liked my name back (my name is fairly generic). Another example, the girl from Friday and I were relating on a lot of stuff and later when I said something funny (she laughed with me), I laughed till I teared up a bit and she said "I do that too". In other words, it was a sincere but transparent attempt to build rapport (and a lot of times, girls are clumsy in expressing their interest).

Her calibrating to me, was a way of saying that she is "qualifying herself to me" which is the right term to use in this situation. Relating to one, is the same as qualifying oneself to another, so you are totally right.

What you are listing here is qualification. It is a powerful tool - although this form of qualification you present here would only work on girls who:
- are rather compliant to you
- who you have good rapport with

In your opinion today, was that a little harsh? For instance, would you add ..."there must be something about you" after "oh...seriously", like a little miniature emotional rollercoaster?

Yes it is way harsher than what I would use now. I used the harsh stuff because that was popularized back then through Mystery Method (negs and qualification) and Double Your Dating (cocky comedy/cocky and funny - which was never really my thing)

The harsh stuff is removed from my game almost totally for the following reason:
- I was younger, hence more of an asshole...
- It works better with girls you know (which I didn't but she was part of a circle of people I knew) since you have more playing room (but if it fails, it can have negative effects on your social circle - i.e. your circle thinks you are a dick etc). With randoms, it has a high chance of backfire, especially if you do not know her. They will respond bitterly with "eh you are rude, who the fuck do you think you are".
- Too much high risk and high reward - why risk losing a potential lay is my motto, when there are other equally or more powerful ways to get that does not involve as much risk?

But if I were to use this today, I would do like you suggest - and I do occasionally use such push and pull lines. The "pull" aspect in push and pull is as important as the push. But back in the days it was common that when noobs where entering the community, were bombarded with "be the prize", "don't show interest unless she does" (this one is still my go-to mindset, although "not showing interest" here does not equate "disqualify her" - it means just "don't actively show much interest until she does"). This resulted in guys starting out being overly harsh and disqualifying to girls.

The advice is not per.se. since the problem most guys had was that they were putting women on pedestals and showing too much interest. Hence why the emphasis on such advice.

Problem was that most of these guys forgot that they had to show interest when she did! and more importantly they missed out the part that they had to show interest that was almost as proportional to her interest /compliance level at all time, throughout the whole interaction. The reason most guys did not get this was because they were following Mystery's M3 model, that was linear and contained multiple phases that had to follow gradually. It was only in A3 and C1-2 that you had to show interest! not before! I think this was a misinterpretation of Mystery Method. Mystery wanted to make a model of how things usually worked for pragmatic reasons... in order to communicate his ideas. But men usually interpreted it as a "step by step guide". What happened was that they got themselves imprisoned by the model, instead of seeing the model as just a mere representation of reality and a good starting point (which goes for any model of seduction - they are starting points and overall guidelines)

So is it more, you are not sure why you like her, won't verbalize, but it's taking over you?

Me disqualifying her to create more compliance and more tension. works.

Note however that I would not recommend anyone to disqualify ("push") a girl on something she cannot change (or cannot change easily on the spot) such as her looks. You need to make sure than when you disqualify (in order for her to qualify back) that you do so on something she HAS THE POSSIBILITY to qualify with (i.e. behaviour). With hair color, she cannot - like it is not like she will go to the bathroom and dye her hair for you!

This may be at least part of the answer to above. Also, it's one issue I have with asshole game, is that I'm aware it works better on girls with unhealthy emotional habits. And, the guys who are most insistent on using it, tend to have their own issues.

Further, it's my belief that people with emotional issues can't recognize that they have them, or that others have them. To them it's just normal. While healthy people see it, usually quickly, and avoid them.

Good points. I agree.

I will comment on your other comment after dinner.

Best,

 

[naturalmikey]

also, i’m guessing your game doesn’t really look like it did ten years ago based on some of the things you’ve said on here. this is more outgoing and high energy than i pictured you. being young in pickup must’ve been awesome. i really wish i wouldn’t have missed out. i remember seeing the pickup artist show on tv and thinking “who needs that? i fuck at least five girls a year.” i had no clue

 

[Teevster]

also, i’m guessing your game doesn’t really look like it did ten years ago based on some of the things you’ve said on here.

Absolutely. I even mention this (+ some comments around this in one of my comments in this thread)

this is more outgoing and high energy than i pictured you.

Yeah I used to be a wild sexual monkey. I was known for being a glass canon - powerful but a bit inconsistent. I was also known to have crazy stories. I was reckless. I guess I matured which is both good and bad. Still miss the old days though, but they are things I prefer these days.

Sadly my game has become so textbook and tight. I go out, I approach some girls, I seduce, I pull, I fuck... next... and it sounds good but it gets a bit boring. My game is overpolished and when things are overpolished they sometimes lose charm.

In fact Pablo and I talk about this. We realized we are too polished and too smooth. So sometimes we go out with the purpose of going back to the old school - more explicit and more risks. It usually leads to wilder stories (but can also fail miserably).

being young in pickup must’ve been awesome.

It was awesome. Still the best thing that ever happened to me in my life was finding the pick up community.

i really wish i wouldn’t have missed out. i remember seeing the pickup artist show on tv and thinking “who needs that? i fuck at least five girls a year.” i had no clue

You missed out

Best,

 

[Teevster]

Comments to the feedback on the other report from Bathroom BJ lay-report.

That's one concept I really like of yours (I learned it from you), sexual proof.

The concept of sexual proof (i.e. other women knowing you fuck other women well) is powerful and interesting but kind of hard to replicate - or at least I have not yet found the way to do so (whoever does will acquire a weapon of mass seduction). It usually just happens accidentally and not often enough - only when I girl I have fucked tells other women that I fucked them good (without being possessive about me, which usually goes hand in hand with a good fuck).

Powerful concept which still after 10 years have not been able to be deliberately reproduced in field'

With this girl Friday I asked if there was anything she didn't like, sexually, and she told me some guy she hooked up with was all about her feet (haha). So I said, "I'm more of a boob guy. Which works out, since you have nice boobs." (She had already told me they were her favorite physical asset of hers, and they were very nice)

Good stuff! Nice sexual qualification right there. However this is not sexual proof. Sexual proof is when a girl likes you as a result of other women enjoying having sex with you (or better said: have publicly stated they enjoyed having sex with you, or other women telling women you are a badass lover). Same principle as with social proof, although sex is also in the picture.

One thing I do is pounce on IOI's. But I appreciate this, taking a little slower approach. Maybe work the room some.

Both viable options. Although they do lead to different dynamics. I used to be very into showing hardcore interest balanced out with showing hardcore disinterest. Actually it is quite powerful but really hard to calibrate (and I failed often too!). The reason I do not that these days is that I find it too hard to deliver properly (at all times or most of the time) - hence I consider this a risky approach which I do not favor these days. However when I am in state... I am in state! and stuff like this may occur!

I love this frame. Great preempt on who the "lucky one" is.

Good old "swinggcat style" prizing

I love this. Just putting it out there for her, let her talk about her fetishes (or her multiple partners!).

I did not mean to say fetishes here, but rather "kinks" or "desires". My old sex talk was very straight forward. It worked and still works very well on very young girls (the case here, it was a club for 18+) who only get bored with my deeper more cerebral style of sex talk. If a girl is under 21, I usually would most likely focus on delivering a style that is more similar to my old style, even though I can never go back to being 17

So that was your first time seeing/interacting with her?

Yes. An interesting note here was that I caught eye-contact with her as I walked out. I remember her giving me the eye! Again "screening game".
On the way I touched her should - yes shoulder! however my palm was closing on on the top side of her breast (without "touching her breast") yet I verbally said I was touching her breast which sexualized things quickly. Really cool and cunning move that was purely situational.

You mentioned being in state, and I can definitely relate when I'm in that mode and primed to respond quickly to a girl's interest (and of course, generate it more). Also, generally aggressive, closing distance quickly and getting physical quickly.

Yes, this was the case here. It was BAM BAM BAM - hitting all the right timings and windows.

Not only was I in social god mode, but i was also in the right sexual state. If you are only social, you just end up talking to a bunch of people and being a social butterfly, oftentimes forgetting to get sexual. This was not the case here. I was also in a sexual state. Being in both is something that only happens once in a while, but when it does happen you get those magical nights.

I used to wear jeans. Then I switched to softer pants like chinos and dress pants... in part for this reason! Want to give girls easy access! lol

You know you can find jeans with stretchable fiber (that's what I wear). Chinos and dress pants, that what Cosy (Cody Lyans wears) for the same reasons as you. I personally do not like the style -it is not me.

What's the crappy pua advice, "It's complicated"? And I like her asking this, and the follow up.

Back in the days, you had to see this as a shittest and respond something witty like "I have not counted" or something that communicate that you are not single, since being single could be seen as negative social proof (no women want you etc) which is a total exageration. If I would have answered something witty here I may not have pulled!

Liking sex (cock) is normal for girls. I like your instinct to reinforce it.

I avoid this technique these days - it is a form of force framing. Claiming "you like x" can seem a bit too authoritative. But in some cases it works. However others it can trigger some major resistance "no that's no me" - RIP your beloved frame.

I take it you're talking about only approaching girls who seem open or interested in you from the start, as opposed to the more difficult sets.

Now I oftentimes go for the girls I want, not for the girls who seems receptive. But again as mentioned depends on my mood, momentum and the venue. I choose my strategy accordingly.

an you explain in more detail your good screening game? What do you do that makes your screening game uniquely good?

I will respond to this briefly since my hand is already hurting.

It can be split into three phases:
- Spot approach invitations - eye contact, girl standing next to you (without facing you), girls bumping into you. The approach invitations are usually subtle - very subtle and sometimes hard to spot. This used to be called "AI" (approach invitation)
- Induce approach invitation - bump into her accidentally, and see how she responds. You can also do a "hover" (cred Gunwitch) by standing next to her without facing her until she notices you (and then approach). You may also just get her attention by doing something next to her and see how she responds or walk by and high five, see how she reacts and so on....This is usually done if she approach invitation is too unclear or simply absent. This used to be called "pAImAI" (pre-approach invitation, male-approach invitation)
- Screening - is she alone, in a corner, with tons of friends, is she attention whoring? is she with dudes? and so on. This can give me info about how hard things will be.

Each of these have a long list which I know but cannot seem to be able to write down right now! It is like spotting signs of interest, at some point you are not conscious about them, they are just second nature!

One thing I have done in past (which I'm trying to do with some new ones) is go out and just try to create a situation to use a routine 10 times (meaning I have to do at least 10 unique sets). Even if it's a little awkward, just to get the delivery right. And also sometimes switching it up and seeing what fits best.

The way to do it, although I stick to just trying it 3 times. If it still down work I usually move on

A little slower buildup, and less to push back against, because telling a girl she's looking for someone to sleep with, could potentially backfire (Although, the underlying belief is there, about sex being natural and good, and I think that hedges against pushback).

Perhaps in some sense, being willing to take your time to get out the really juicy parts, because you're building intrigue with the way you talk... and pause... and "pace and lead".... as well as solid fundamentals and body language.

Truth been told, my material is as powerful as back then, although for different reasons. I stimulate her in a deeper way now (which is more powerful) and trigger way less resistance (make her feel more comfortable) than the "bazooka" style of back then.

That said, I am not a slow seducer by no means. I am still swift as fuck. That said sometimes a long seduction is required... in which case things will ltake more time. Back in the days I would move on (because I did not like those interactions and I probably did not really know how to handle those), however now I would stick and seal the deal (I am good at slower seductions)

But I am still considered a siwft seducer. It would be wrong to consider me a slow-seducer (purevil is the slow-seducer - the slower the better for him - he enjoys it - oh I miss him)

A decade older? you must be in your 30's then? Many of the guys I hang out with like carousel and Pablo (Pelusita) are about your age.

Best,

 

[naturalmikey]

one way i’ve found sexual proof to work is, and i haven’t done this in a long time, is when i can tell a girl is leading me on i’ll become pen pals with her. i would start telling her about a lot of the girls i was fucking (the ones that were at least as hot as her) and even sending pictures. inevitably she would start doing the same and we would become “friends.” without fail within 3-6 months she would invite me over to hookup. i’m like 3/3 doing this. and guys complain about getting out of the friend zone. i haven’t had the energy to do this in a while. and it was a lot of effort. but back then i was really willing to wxhaust any possible lead that could’ve lead to sex.

in person i’ve has it inadvertently work a couple times when i was out with a girl and another girl came up to me to say hello and the girl i was with would ask how we know each other. when the chick said “we hooked up” the first time i was so in my head like “so much for this girl.” what happened much to my surprise was the girl i was with became instantly more attracted to me. this is one of the benefits of frequenting the same venues. if you can deal with some awkwardness, being around girls you’ve fucked before, you’re going to get some pretty strong sexual proof. it’s why guys fuck entire groups of friends.

 

[Velasco]

Sexual proof is when a girl likes you as a result of other women enjoying having sex with you (or better said: have publicly stated they enjoyed having sex with you, or other women telling women you are a badass lover).

Social proof = proof that other people like you.
Sexual proof = proof that other girls like fucking you.

A girl publicity stated that she likes fucking you is ONE way to demonstrate sexual proof to another chick. However because of the odds of that happening are downright down to luck (meeting a chick you fucked before coming up to your set and saying, "omg!!! hello my french lover!" (or maybe you can orchestrate this by telling a girl you're not really attracted to, but have strong compliance with, due to gaming her earlier, to come into your set when you are talking to an attractive girl, greeting you, "omg hi Alek!" then turn to the girl, "wow you're really lucky. He's really good in bed" then fucking off), another way to demonstrate this is via sex stories. With emphasize on the girl becoming really obsessed with you. Because your dick game was that good. That it freaked you out. "god I really hope you are not that type of girl."

 

[Teevster]

Social proof = proof that other people like you.
Sexual proof = proof that other girls like fucking you.

A girl publicity stated that she likes fucking you is ONE way to demonstrate sexual proof to another chick. However because of the odds of that happening are downright down to luck (meeting a chick you fucked before coming up to your set and saying, "omg!!! hello my french lover!" (or maybe you can orchestrate this by telling a girl you're not really attracted to, but have strong compliance with, due to gaming her earlier, to come into your set when you are talking to an attractive girl, greeting you, "omg hi Alek!" then turn to the girl, "wow you're really lucky. He's really good in bed" then fucking off), another way to demonstrate this is via sex stories. With emphasize on the girl becoming really obsessed with you. Because your dick game was that good. That it freaked you out. "god I really hope you are not that type of girl."

Yupp, you got it. But yeah as we can see it is not a simple matter.

The second suggestion is something I do use - although I have put this in the category of orginary sexual prizing, since it only communicates that you are a good lover, not that other are directly telling you are! But sure it does IMPLIE some sexual proof.

 

[Watts]

Comments to the feedback on the push and pull/disqualification and qualification report.

I probably had the sickest adolescence one could have imagined. I mean I grew up in the pick-up community.

I bet! lol

Additionally it is key to mention that pick was (and still is) my number one hobby. I was truly obsessed with this - I spent time on forums daily and went out as much as I could. This helps a lot too.

I agree. I think lessons need to be close together and reinforced to really stick. Not to mention the experience->theory->experience->theory cycle.

Being the youngest known poster on mASF granted me certain privileges too, since many of the veteran wanted to help the young one - it is like I was their little experiment. Some got a kick from seeing a young super seducer (hence my nickname "the young prodigy"). However the other half hated me for being so young - they claimed I did not understand the full picture because i was immature (they were partly right too! but there were things that I did understand very well).

It was an interesting time for me!

Consider me in the former category. If I thought someone didn't get something, I'd want to make a good faith attempt to share my knowledge with them.

But young dudes killing it is inspiring. Like @Bacchus coming out of nowhere and doing something similar.

Also I love the exchange of knowledge, if it wasn't already obvious.

That was more of an ego trip that would do me nothing now. I would still not like being taken advantage of, but rejecting a girl do me nothing now. Remember, this is over 10 years ago! I was 16. I am now 27 soon 28!

Good point about ego, people who are more influenced by this, by their relative position to others or by compliments / condemnation are certainly more ego driven. In some sense, that could even be the definition i.e. the "false self" that we maintain to interact with others, and how much power it has over us.

I believe, again by definition, that any interaction with another person is in some sense ego based. That it is the tool by which others understand us and we understand our relationship to each other. Because (and I suspect Rousseau would agree here), if I was in the woods by myself just hunting and gathering, what purpose would the concept of an "I" serve? Unless it is in relation to an "Other".

So although I think you're right it should affect us less as we become less dependent on outside perspectives for our validation (we have a firm internal reference i.e. "I don't need to reject girls to show I'm in a position of power or desire, I've fucked over 200 attractive women!"), I think shame and also pride (a poor English word by the way, wound up with a negative connotation) will always have some (although possibly minuscule) effect so long as we place some value on the people around us.

And I thought you were 26, with the 10 years ago 16. I'm soon to be 35, hence saying I'm almost a decade your senior in the other thread.

That is a good observation and I agree. I also believe that my confidence was not at 100% back then. I went from school loser to a guy with success. It changes you, but you still keep some element of the school loser in you - at least for a while. This is like the ugly girl who turn hot - she will turn into a bitch and get pleasure from being an ass to guys.

I was the ugly girl who turned hot.

Agree. It also happens at each new level of success. I remember the times I was successful with a new woman, one who was at a level of looks I hadn't achieved yet, every, little, thing seemed like the bottom was about to fall out. And often it became a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Getting technically better happens long before emotionally believing you are better. The good behaviors and good results have to happen time and time again before you can emotionally believe it. Which, also speaks to your point about not having to be deprogrammed, because there are bad behaviors and/or results programed into people, emotionally, which have to be overwritten.

This is also where a general calm and emotional skills from things like meditation and psychology come in handy. To bridge this gap.

Yes I was not aware of this back then, but it happens sometimes when there is female competition. For example last year I was talking to this bombshell Belarussian girl. She was a 10 in my book. A 7 (subjective rating, but objectively less good looking).
A french chick (was in Denmark, before I moved to France) who I had interacted and hooked earlier came into my interaction and tried to outcompete the hot girl, which failed.

Just an aside. I appreciate that the 1-10 system is vulgar, but it does get the point across effectively. I still prefer to use it for that reason.

The losing french girl, changed gears and started openly offering me blowjobs (in French, which only I understood) and telling me how good she was.

Interesting thing here is that it forced the PUA - or I in this case to make a decision:
a) Go for the hot Bellarussian. She is hooked sure, but not guarranteed lay
b) or call it a night and go with the french girl and get a hopefully good BJ (and prob sex). This girl would prob be a more eager fuck.

Option a) was the one I chose because I had high momentum and was not in need. I also due to my momentum knew I had good odds of sealing the deal with her (I failed but ended up with an almost equally hot british girl - which I would like to make point about*)
Option b) would be good on low momentum where you need to get some action in order to get the machine going again. It is your priority. Additionally, with low momentum I know that my skills are less good than on high, so in which case I accept that I must choose the easier way. It is like being forced to choose the cheaper product when you are broke.

Being aware of your situation and act accordingly (making the right decision) is in itself a skill or a sign of experience.

Agree with all of this, as well as your recommendation for me.

It's funny, I was out with this guy who was a local coach, more or less the only guy with legit consistent skills in the local lair (which is really, really bad.... although there is one European dude who likes almost immediately showing girls pictures of his cock on his phone! lol I think he's on a predator list somewhere!), and we were locked into a set with our girls, 7-8. It was a bachelorette party, they were strongly hooked, everything was good, but then two girls walked in, both blond, 8-9 who were dressed very sexy (really showing off their great tits). And he turns to me and whispers "Now we have to make the call, these girls are in, do we eject and risk it for those other girls, or stay. The smart move is to stay." and I agreed.

* Since I failed with the Bellarussian girl (she lived in Sweden and had to take a train with her gay friend) and it being so close, frustrated me, which put me in what I call "angry mode" which is basically triggers me into god mode. Because of the frustration of failing in such a way (especially when it is close), I feel motivated to take pick up seriously and delivers thing 100%.

I actually find that response, a positive release of energy, to be a combination of momentum and probably deep seated beliefs. Because it can go a number of negative ways, and I've had both situations (self-sabotage and transcendence).

A real issue (or call it "sticking point") that I experience the better I get is lazyness (You have gotten so many lays, you do not need to prove shit to yourself no more, nor to anyone else) and you start taking shortcuts. You simply don't deliver things 100%. But when I get get frustrating and enter angry mode... it is like superman mode where I give in 100%. It usually ends well. In fact, in this case, I venue changed and pulled the girl from the line... we did not even enter the club.

I wonder if part of that is a lack of high quality girls. In other words, do you think you'd still feel that lazyness if you had a supermodel social circle to game? Like maybe you're a big fish in a small pond, you can lay 7's and 8's very consistently, but you just don't have the 9's and 10's with the regularity around the challenge you?

It's addressed in the book "The Art of Learning" where the author discusses moving up in competition levels at the right time. If you go too early, you get beaten down and discouraged, if you go to late you get lazy and entitled and when you do move up, it's a shock. There is this sweet spot where you increase challenge to fit skill to keep it engaging (and keep learning).

But yeah, I know that feeling, and you just start making moves because that loss triggered something in you, now you have "something to prove" again, at least to bang that new girl! haha

Also, big believer in a venue change reset for when too much goes wrong in one venue.

Her calibrating to me, was a way of saying that she is "qualifying herself to me" which is the right term to use in this situation. Relating to one, is the same as qualifying oneself to another, so you are totally right.

Thank you. Yeah, I thought that was the proper reading of it.

What you are listing here is qualification. It is a powerful tool - although this form of qualification you present here would only work on girls who:
- are rather compliant to you
- who you have good rapport with

This is a good point. I think one weakness of mine is that I come in direct on girls who give me either an IOI or who are initially compliant. I do need to learn how to slowly build with those maybe girls, since those are often what the hottest are (if only because they are judging intentions, beside obvious competition and perceived value. Although they can be the strongest "yes" girls if they see the guy as genuine).

Yes it is way harsher than what I would use now. I used the harsh stuff because that was popularized back then through Mystery Method (negs and qualification) and Double Your Dating (cocky comedy/cocky and funny - which was never really my thing)

The harsh stuff is removed from my game almost totally for the following reason:
- I was younger, hence more of an asshole...
- It works better with girls you know (which I didn't but she was part of a circle of people I knew) since you have more playing room (but if it fails, it can have negative effects on your social circle - i.e. your circle thinks you are a dick etc). With randoms, it has a high chance of backfire, especially if you do not know her. They will respond bitterly with "eh you are rude, who the fuck do you think you are".
- Too much high risk and high reward - why risk losing a potential lay is my motto, when there are other equally or more powerful ways to get that does not involve as much risk?

I think the social circle thing is a great point. You really can be more aggressive there (although there is a chance of pushback, of course), but you're not fighting against the "you're just a random" perception.

I agree with the risk vs. reward.

...and when it comes to being an asshole, I was way worse than you when young. Luckily I figured it out. Now I'm the opposite.

But if I were to use this today, I would do like you suggest - and I do occasionally use such push and pull lines. The "pull" aspect in push and pull is as important as the push. But back in the days it was common that when noobs where entering the community, were bombarded with "be the prize", "don't show interest unless she does" (this one is still my go-to mindset, although "not showing interest" here does not equate "disqualify her" - it means just "don't actively show much interest until she does"). This resulted in guys starting out being overly harsh and disqualifying to girls.

The advice is not per.se. since the problem most guys had was that they were putting women on pedestals and showing too much interest. Hence why the emphasis on such advice.

This is one issue that makes a lot of seduction advice bad (and those who consume it uncritically, and dogmatically, stall out).

Broad advice will be aimed at the AFC's of the world, without specifically addressing why it's for AFC's, how it's an over-correction, not a correction, and that at some point they'll need to swing back around, like a pendulum.

It's the origin of stuff like certain people from the local lair repeating to me "Looks don't matter" as if it was some magic phrase that would make girls forget about their slovenly appearance (instead of "looks matter less to women than to men, but still matter i.e. women are more willing to consider other aspects or be taken away with their emotions etc.").

Problem was that most of these guys forgot that they had to show interest when she did! and more importantly they missed out the part that they had to show interest that was almost as proportional to her interest /compliance level at all time, throughout the whole interaction. The reason most guys did not get this was because they were following Mystery's M3 model, that was linear and contained multiple phases that had to follow gradually. It was only in A3 and C1-2 that you had to show interest! not before! I think this was a misinterpretation of Mystery Method. Mystery wanted to make a model of how things usually worked for pragmatic reasons... in order to communicate his ideas. But men usually interpreted it as a "step by step guide". What happened was that they got themselves imprisoned by the model, instead of seeing the model as just a mere representation of reality and a good starting point (which goes for any model of seduction - they are starting points and overall guidelines)

Well put. And I hadn't thought about the M3 model like that (or it at all, for a while), but that's a good point.

Me disqualifying her to create more compliance and more tension. works.

Note however that I would not recommend anyone to disqualify ("push") a girl on something she cannot change (or cannot change easily on the spot) such as her looks. You need to make sure than when you disqualify (in order for her to qualify back) that you do so on something she HAS THE POSSIBILITY to qualify with (i.e. behaviour). With hair color, she cannot - like it is not like she will go to the bathroom and dye her hair for you!

I agree with this. Give her a behavior to change so she will focus on this instead of just becoming discouraged and auto-rejecting.

You know, that's also similar to Sun Tzu's advice in "The Art of War", don't ever surround an enemy completely, give them a small opening to retreat, so when it looks hopeless they will run away instead of fighting ferociously for their lives. Then you mop them up!

Thanks for your response here! I'm going to continue to work through our threads, and of course the FR!

 

[Watts]

Comments to the feedback on the other report from Bathroom BJ lay-report.

The concept of sexual proof (i.e. other women knowing you fuck other women well) is powerful and interesting but kind of hard to replicate - or at least I have not yet found the way to do so (whoever does will acquire a weapon of mass seduction). It usually just happens accidentally and not often enough - only when I girl I have fucked tells other women that I fucked them good (without being possessive about me, which usually goes hand in hand with a good fuck).

Powerful concept which still after 10 years have not been able to be deliberately reproduced in field'

In my pre-game days I couldn't believe my friend who said he'd fuck a hooters waitress, and do it well, and afterwards the rest would be after him. I thought "but won't she want you to be her boyfriend, and the other girls stay away out of respect or friendship" lol.

I was a bit of a romantic... still am, but in a grounded way.

Maybe deliberately target institutions with a high concentration of hot girls and a reputation for sexual openess? Like hooters as mentioned, or sorrorities?

Good stuff! Nice sexual qualification right there. However this is not sexual proof. Sexual proof is when a girl likes you as a result of other women enjoying having sex with you (or better said: have publicly stated they enjoyed having sex with you, or other women telling women you are a badass lover). Same principle as with social proof, although sex is also in the picture.

I know you responded to this here before reading the FR, to which I'd say it would have been much better if I had lead up to it properly by using some sexual frames and getting there gradually.

Both viable options. Although they do lead to different dynamics. I used to be very into showing hardcore interest balanced out with showing hardcore disinterest. Actually it is quite powerful but really hard to calibrate (and I failed often too!). The reason I do not that these days is that I find it too hard to deliver properly (at all times or most of the time) - hence I consider this a risky approach which I do not favor these days. However when I am in state... I am in state! and stuff like this may occur!

I think this is just another piece of evidence that I need to be able to push / show disinterest to get the best results with my current style.

Good old "swinggcat style" prizing

Going to run it in field

I did not mean to say fetishes here, but rather "kinks" or "desires". My old sex talk was very straight forward. It worked and still works very well on very young girls (the case here, it was a club for 18+) who only get bored with my deeper more cerebral style of sex talk. If a girl is under 21, I usually would most likely focus on delivering a style that is more similar to my old style, even though I can never go back to being 17

I like this distinction. With a shorter attention span, get to the point. With a longer one, draw it out.

Yes. An interesting note here was that I caught eye-contact with her as I walked out. I remember her giving me the eye! Again "screening game".
On the way I touched her should - yes shoulder! however my palm was closing on on the top side of her breast (without "touching her breast") yet I verbally said I was touching her breast which sexualized things quickly. Really cool and cunning move that was purely situational.

Love when this happens.

Yes, this was the case here. It was BAM BAM BAM - hitting all the right timings and windows.

In flow.

Not only was I in social god mode, but i was also in the right sexual state. If you are only social, you just end up talking to a bunch of people and being a social butterfly, oftentimes forgetting to get sexual. This was not the case here. I was also in a sexual state. Being in both is something that only happens once in a while, but when it does happen you get those magical nights.

I've definitely been a victim of that, playing it safe.

But, to anyone who is a bit of a hard case, actually just going out "to be social" and not even attempting pickup, but to simply make friends, can be positive first step. And then, just reacting to girls who show clear interest.

You know you can find jeans with stretchable fiber (that's what I wear). Chinos and dress pants, that what Cosy (Cody Lyans wears) for the same reasons as you. I personally do not like the style -it is not me.

This boat has sailed. I love my chino's too much. But thanks for the recommendation!

Back in the days, you had to see this as a shittest and respond something witty like "I have not counted" or something that communicate that you are not single, since being single could be seen as negative social proof (no women want you etc) which is a total exageration. If I would have answered something witty here I may not have pulled!

Totally agree! It's crazy that these distinctions weren't made but a question can mean something totally different depending on where it comes in the interaction (via M3 to be specific, but beginning/middle/end is fine).

Ex. "How old are you?" from a girl in the approach is a shit test, she's questioning if you're too old or too young to talk to her. But that same question while you're in comfort and rapport, while the two of you are sitting on a couch and relating, is her screening you for a potential boyfriend or lover.

And, that idea of being single being "negative social proof" is the sort of keyboard jockeying theorizing that really holds people back. It's just a person who doesn't go out playing out a single concept without any of the reality checks that would temper it.

I avoid this technique these days - it is a form of force framing. Claiming "you like x" can seem a bit too authoritative. But in some cases it works. However others it can trigger some major resistance "no that's no me" - RIP your beloved frame.

Haha, hate to see it!

But thanks for pointing that out. I agree distorting reality to make a girl fit into the frame I want her in is a bad move... I'll just have to find a way to do the same thing... but with more subtly.

Now I oftentimes go for the girls I want, not for the girls who seems receptive. But again as mentioned depends on my mood, momentum and the venue. I choose my strategy accordingly.

As you should. If there's one thing I don't do that I know would produce some immediate results (in terms of momentum), it's go out with the intention of taking a freebie (if for instance I have little momentum at the time), because I know I have a shot with better looking girls.

This is also an advantage of having places a decent distance away, you can slum it once in a while and not develop a reputation in your local area.

I will respond to this briefly since my hand is already hurting.

Thanks for sticking through it for me! And I hope it's not too serious!

It can be split into three phases:
- Spot approach invitations - eye contact, girl standing next to you (without facing you), girls bumping into you. The approach invitations are usually subtle - very subtle and sometimes hard to spot. This used to be called "AI" (approach invitation)
- Induce approach invitation - bump into her accidentally, and see how she responds. You can also do a "hover" (cred Gunwitch) by standing next to her without facing her until she notices you (and then approach). You may also just get her attention by doing something next to her and see how she responds or walk by and high five, see how she reacts and so on....This is usually done if she approach invitation is too unclear or simply absent. This used to be called "pAImAI" (pre-approach invitation, male-approach invitation)
- Screening - is she alone, in a corner, with tons of friends, is she attention whoring? is she with dudes? and so on. This can give me info about how hard things will be.

Never tried the bump. Have done the hover, usually listening in on the conversation and looking for a natural (and fun, funny and/or exciting) place to enter.

I have done physical opens and also dance to open (did that several times recently). I will do a high five very rarely, but that's more of a walking past her and get her to stop, and I do it with some interesting verbal opener (usually a compliment).

On dancing and opening, sometimes you'll see one girl dancing while the rest of the group isn't or isn't with any real enthusiasm (or two girls in a larger group etc.). What I find is that when a girl's energy is a mismatch for her group, that's an opportunity. So if I see that, I'll start dancing, connect eyes with her, and then approach and get next to her. I'll then also compliment her on being fun, bringing the energy, or being a good dancer etc. It creates almost an immediate mini-isolation, and I can get her to follow me off the dancefloor for a drink, or some other excuse, often quickly afterwards.

And actually, any energy mismatch, too high or too low for the group, makes her in a sense "alone" and able to be opened.

One thing to be wary of this approach though, is if she is too low and you call it out immediately, it's easy to to turn it negative "You're the only friend not having a good time" or even "You're judging everyone right now". But if you spin it as "I can see you're the most observant of the group" or "You look like you're in charge over here" or something along those lines, that can be good.

Each of these have a long list which I know but cannot seem to be able to write down right now! It is like spotting signs of interest, at some point you are not conscious about them, they are just second nature!

Yes, I have certainly experienced that! And so can become acting on them quickly!

The way to do it, although I stick to just trying it 3 times. If it still down work I usually move on

This may be a more reasonable goal to set.

Truth been told, my material is as powerful as back then, although for different reasons. I stimulate her in a deeper way now (which is more powerful) and trigger way less resistance (make her feel more comfortable) than the "bazooka" style of back then.

That said, I am not a slow seducer by no means. I am still swift as fuck. That said sometimes a long seduction is required... in which case things will ltake more time. Back in the days I would move on (because I did not like those interactions and I probably did not really know how to handle those), however now I would stick and seal the deal (I am good at slower seductions)

I meant you took a more measured but slower approach i.e. a bazooka just blows everything up, a sniper takes his time to line up a shot. But I didn't mean "slow" in even like a "7 hours to get a lay sense". Instead I meant 4 or 5 lines to get to the juicy stuff, instead a straight up verbal first shot of "You're out here looking for sex"! haha

Also (as made apparent in my recent FR) being willing to create a more slow and gradual buildup to more explicit sexual topics.

But I am still considered a siwft seducer. It would be wrong to consider me a slow-seducer (purevil is the slow-seducer - the slower the better for him - he enjoys it - oh I miss him)

True! And agreed! Pureevil was great. Really gave the impression of a deep understanding of social dynamics while being a chill older guy (and prob 5 years or so older than me).

A decade older? you must be in your 30's then? Many of the guys I hang out with like carousel and Pablo (Pelusita) are about your age.

Best,

Yeah I'm 34, soon to be 35. And I thought you were 26 because I thought you said the report was from 10 years ago when you were 16. I get that you are soon to be 28, so I stand corrected.

And that makes sense that you get along well with us dudes in our 30's.... you had what we could call an accelerated adolescence

 

[Teevster]

Comments to the feedback on the push and pull/disqualification and qualification report.

But young dudes killing it is inspiring. Like @Bacchus coming out of nowhere and doing something similar.

I love what Bacchus is doing! I see him as the next generation.

I believe, again by definition, that any interaction with another person is in some sense ego based. That it is the tool by which others understand us and we understand our relationship to each other. Because (and I suspect Rousseau would agree here), if I was in the woods by myself just hunting and gathering, what purpose would the concept of an "I" serve? Unless it is in relation to an "Other".

For Rousseau, the social "I" is formed as a result of society The Lockean "I" exists even in the state of nature, since the "I" has a certain moral rights and a moral compass even in the state of nature.

So although I think you're right it should affect us less as we become less dependent on outside perspectives for our validation (we have a firm internal reference i.e. "I don't need to reject girls to show I'm in a position of power or desire, I've fucked over 200 attractive women!"), I think shame and also pride (a poor English word by the way, wound up with a negative connotation) will always have some (although possibly minuscule) effect so long as we place some value on the people around us.

Agreed.

Agree. It also happens at each new level of success. I remember the times I was successful with a new woman, one who was at a level of looks I hadn't achieved yet, every, little, thing seemed like the bottom was about to fall out. And often it became a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Getting technically better happens long before emotionally believing you are better. The good behaviors and good results have to happen time and time again before you can emotionally believe it. Which, also speaks to your point about not having to be deprogrammed, because there are bad behaviors and/or results programed into people, emotionally, which have to be overwritten.

This is also where a general calm and emotional skills from things like meditation and psychology come in handy. To bridge this gap.

Good points, I agree. Most good PUA's do have some sort use some form of meditation I have noticed.

It's funny, I was out with this guy who was a local coach, more or less the only guy with legit consistent skills in the local lair (which is really, really bad.... although there is one European dude who likes almost immediately showing girls pictures of his cock on his phone! lol I think he's on a predator list somewhere!), and we were locked into a set with our girls, 7-8. It was a bachelorette party, they were strongly hooked, everything was good, but then two girls walked in, both blond, 8-9 who were dressed very sexy (really showing off their great tits). And he turns to me and whispers "Now we have to make the call, these girls are in, do we eject and risk it for those other girls, or stay. The smart move is to stay." and I agreed.

Yupp, A sign of a real PUA.

I actually find that response, a positive release of energy, to be a combination of momentum and probably deep seated beliefs. Because it can go a number of negative ways, and I've had both situations (self-sabotage and transcendence).

I don't go into sabotage mode, because I know i have had many past positive experiences and I know that I can make it. May be different for a beginner. I think my field experience has an impact here.

I wonder if part of that is a lack of high quality girls. In other words, do you think you'd still feel that lazyness if you had a supermodel social circle to game? Like maybe you're a big fish in a small pond, you can lay 7's and 8's very consistently, but you just don't have the 9's and 10's with the regularity around the challenge you?

Well I agree - finding the quality women in regards to looks and personality has become a challenge. It was not always in Copenhagen as I had access to very selective venues. I have not yet managed to acquire those contacts in Paris yet (been here only for 2,5 months).

But yeah, it is not primarily about the quality of women - it is just that the end - i.e. sex with a new chick is not that exciting always. Especially when the situation is challenging. Working hard for "yet another lay" as Pablo calls it. This is not the case when I am in party mode and feeling it though. Problem is when I am not feeling it, my motivation can at times be questionable. I will start bitching and then I will bump into some chick and still have a chance of getting something....

It is not like my lack of motivation makes me stiff and passive. It is just that I don't go in 100%.

It's addressed in the book "The Art of Learning" where the author discusses moving up in competition levels at the right time. If you go too early, you get beaten down and discouraged, if you go to late you get lazy and entitled and when you do move up, it's a shock. There is this sweet spot where you increase challenge to fit skill to keep it engaging (and keep learning).

Interesting remark.

But yeah, I know that feeling, and you just start making moves because that loss triggered something in you, now you have "something to prove" again, at least to bang that new girl! haha

Exactly.

Also, big believer in a venue change reset for when too much goes wrong in one venue.

Me too.

This is a good point. I think one weakness of mine is that I come in direct on girls who give me either an IOI or who are initially compliant. I do need to learn how to slowly build with those maybe girls, since those are often what the hottest are (if only because they are judging intentions, beside obvious competition and perceived value. Although they can be the strongest "yes" girls if they see the guy as genuine).

If she is giving you massive interest it can be wise to show a tons of interest back - i.e. if we follow the rule of calibration of always mirroring back HER level of compliance to you.

However, I am still careful with those girls who show immediate interes, They may just be attention whoring, and the moment you display interest, they just leave you. There is an own method to handle those girls. I tend to be pretty good at it. Basically, you have to challenging.

I agree with this. Give her a behavior to change so she will focus on this instead of just becoming discouraged and auto-rejecting.

You know, that's also similar to Sun Tzu's advice in "The Art of War", don't ever surround an enemy completely, give them a small opening to retreat, so when it looks hopeless they will run away instead of fighting ferociously for their lives. Then you mop them up!

Thanks for your response here! I'm going to continue to work through our threads, and of course the FR!

Yes!

Best,

 

[Watts]

Comments to the feedback on the push and pull/disqualification and qualification report.

I love what Bacchus is doing! I see him as the next generation.

Couldn't agree more. Can't give him enough props.

For Rousseau, the social "I" is formed as a result of society The Lockean "I" exists even in the state of nature, since the "I" has a certain moral rights and a moral compass even in the state of nature.

Haha, my instinct for him was right! And thanks for pointing out how Locke sees it; another in my list of greats to study.

Good points, I agree. Most good PUA's do have some sort use some form of meditation I have noticed.

Same. I'm sure we agree on many of the benefits.

Yupp, A sign of a real PUA.

The ability to scan a room, breaking down it's dynamics, and forming a plan of attack i.e. make highly strategic decisions with payoff/reward in a social situation, is probably the most obvious "tell" of mine that I do this stuff.

When I hang out with regular guys and start throwing out angles, they think I'm near psychic! (just thousands of hours in field and in learning though, anyone can do it!)

I don't go into sabotage mode, because I know i have had many past positive experiences and I know that I can make it. May be different for a beginner. I think my field experience has an impact here.

I think this point is interesting to unpack.

So I pointed out that it's momentum dependent, as an example if last month I laid 4 women, and now I just had some crisis in a set, I'm much more likely to believe I'll find a way to fuck again, or I'll find another girl who will be down. Recent momentum matters.

To your point, if you've gone out for year after year and had good results, there is a vast memory bank of successes, positive reference experiences, that you can draw on and that gives an underlying bedrock of confidence regardless of recent momentum. This of course can be the opposite too, if you've gone out for years and had no success, you'd be more likely to self-sabotage at the first sign of resistance (this would be the emotional by-product of the "deprogramming" you mentioned before and which you didn't need).

And, from a perspective that is not aligned with your experience and thus you may not have considered, having a framework for what went wrong has a very large effect in that moment for whether you're rally or route. So you coming from basically starting your seduction may not have thought about this, but I can say as someone who was just doing whatever stuff they thought might work with little to no guidance for me, I was extremely vulnerable to getting pissed off when things didn't go my way in a night in large part because it was a mystery why it happened. Once I started studying seduction in depth, that went away. Even if I didn't have an exact response then or even shorty after, I could at least say "Damn, I need to get better with AMOG's", it gave me a productive outlet for that frustration (go study this, try this next time) as opposed to hitting a wall (metaphorically or physically).

To use a recent example from my FR, when my girl went into ASD, I at least had that passion routine memorized and could throw it out and reduce the damage (it still wasn't enough, as we discussed). But it at least felt better to do something that was helping the situation.

This also reminds me of the study done on chimps where two would be hooked up to an electric shock. The would both be given a shock, but one would be given a control to stop it once it began, while the other had no such option. So even though both got shocked an equal amount of time, the chimp who could at least press the button and make the pain stop showed much lower levels of cortisol (stress) than the chimp who could do nothing.

Edit: Just another layer I thought of, each of these factors can all have different weights. So a "natural" with 100 lays but no real idea how he did it, might get angry and self sabotage when a beautiful girl suddenly turns cold, while a beginner/intermediate with only 10 lays but grounded theoretical knowledge might react coolly because he has some ideas on what is happening and ways to turn around the situation. Conversely the "natural" could console himself with "I've fucked over a hundred bitches, fuck her!" and then go game better from his anger, while the beginner/intermediate might paralyze himself with the self talk about missing his "big chance" which he has studied and planned so hard for.

Well I agree - finding the quality women in regards to looks and personality has become a challenge. It was not always in Copenhagen as I had access to very selective venues. I have not yet managed to acquire those contacts in Paris yet (been here only for 2,5 months).

A usually under-discussed aspect of game, finding and gaining access to the best women. I remember @Skills calling it out as the biggest difference when people get to intermediate/advanced to get better results, more better women.

I also am doing the same in my new area (and once we talk about the gay clubs, I might even work them in too)

But yeah, it is not primarily about the quality of women - it is just that the end - i.e. sex with a new chick is not that exciting always. Especially when the situation is challenging. Working hard for "yet another lay" as Pablo calls it. This is not the case when I am in party mode and feeling it though. Problem is when I am not feeling it, my motivation can at times be questionable. I will start bitching and then I will bump into some chick and still have a chance of getting something....

It is not like my lack of motivation makes me stiff and passive. It is just that I don't go in 100%.

I understand and it makes sense.

So question though, for someone as advanced as you, what's the next horizon? My guess is at least for the next year or two you'll get established in your city, as well as learn it's ebbs and flows. What's next, keeping a harem? Finding an amazing woman and going (gasp) mono? Creating your ideal romantic situation with a bisexual girl you do pickup with? Or maybe just taking the time to engage with people who can benefit from your knowledge (like me, and in this)?

I'm just curious what you think would be some exciting goals for you in this domain?

If she is giving you massive interest it can be wise to show a tons of interest back - i.e. if we follow the rule of calibration of always mirroring back HER level of compliance to you.

True, and that's how I normally run it. However I don't always restrain myself to HER level of compliance, and that may be hamstringing me with the girls who are still undecided on me.

However, I am still careful with those girls who show immediate interes, They may just be attention whoring, and the moment you display interest, they just leave you. There is an own method to handle those girls. I tend to be pretty good at it. Basically, you have to challenging.

I had one of these (perhaps) on Wenesday. I'd be happy to hear any specific advice you have for this (such as trying to figure out real vs. faked interest). This is also one reason I got into the habit of telling girls to kiss me (like in my FR), because it forces them show their cards here (while having plenty of negative consequences, as we discussed).

 

[Teevster]

Comments to the feedback on the push and pull/disqualification and qualification report.

The ability to scan a room, breaking down it's dynamics, and forming a plan of attack i.e. make highly strategic decisions with payoff/reward in a social situation, is probably the most obvious "tell" of mine that I do this stuff.

Yes. The best ones at this is probably Pablo and Carousel.

I think this point is interesting to unpack.

So I pointed out that it's momentum dependent, as an example if last month I laid 4 women, and now I just had some crisis in a set, I'm much more likely to believe I'll find a way to fuck again, or I'll find another girl who will be down. Recent momentum matters.

To your point, if you've gone out for year after year and had good results, there is a vast memory bank of successes, positive reference experiences, that you can draw on and that gives an underlying bedrock of confidence regardless of recent momentum. This of course can be the opposite too, if you've gone out for years and had no success, you'd be more likely to self-sabotage at the first sign of resistance (this would be the emotional by-product of the "deprogramming" you mentioned before and which you didn't need).

This sounds correct.

And, from a perspective that is not aligned with your experience and thus you may not have considered, having a framework for what went wrong has a very large effect in that moment for whether you're rally or route. So you coming from basically starting your seduction may not have thought about this, but I can say as someone who was just doing whatever stuff they thought might work with little to no guidance for me, I was extremely vulnerable to getting pissed off when things didn't go my way in a night in large part because it was a mystery why it happened. Once I started studying seduction in depth, that went away. Even if I didn't have an exact response then or even shorty after, I could at least say "Damn, I need to get better with AMOG's", it gave me a productive outlet for that frustration (go study this, try this next time) as opposed to hitting a wall (metaphorically or physically).

It is only when men start adopting such mindset that they eventually get good.

To use a recent example from my FR, when my girl went into ASD, I at least had that passion routine memorized and could throw it out and reduce the damage (it still wasn't enough, as we discussed). But it at least felt better to do something that was helping the situation.

Regarding your latest FR, sure you could have used some routines to minimize the negative effects. However, it would have been wiser to focus using the routines as a way to avoid facing the issue of ASD and FSC in the first place.

Again, we already discussed this in the thread on momentum.

Edit: Just another layer I thought of, each of these factors can all have different weights. So a "natural" with 100 lays but no real idea how he did it, might get angry and self sabotage when a beautiful girl suddenly turns cold, while a beginner/intermediate with only 10 lays but grounded theoretical knowledge might react coolly because he has some ideas on what is happening and ways to turn around the situation. Conversely the "natural" could console himself with "I've fucked over a hundred bitches, fuck her!" and then go game better from his anger, while the beginner/intermediate might paralyze himself with the self talk about missing his "big chance" which he has studied and planned so hard for.

The idea of pick up is to become aware of what works, so that we can consistently reconstruct past successes. This is a good

So question though, for someone as advanced as you, what's the next horizon? My guess is at least for the next year or two you'll get established in your city, as well as learn it's ebbs and flows. What's next, keeping a harem? Finding an amazing woman and going (gasp) mono? Creating your ideal romantic situation with a bisexual girl you do pickup with? Or maybe just taking the time to engage with people who can benefit from your knowledge (like me, and in this)?

Already figuring out the city quite well. As a result of moving around a bit, and traveling a lot, I have gained the ability to quickly calibrate myself to a city.

Harem? Meh already done that. Going mono? did that. I remained mono for only 5 months (and then I could not control myself anymore... too much love for the game).

The bi-sexual girl thing - already done that (and still to some extent doing that).

The last one has been the case for years.

No my ultimate goal for now is just to get even better, collect more wild stories and gain an even better understanding of things. Basically still in it for the game itself. It is my destiny I feel.

I had one of these (perhaps) on Wenesday. I'd be happy to hear any specific advice you have for this (such as trying to figure out real vs. faked interest). This is also one reason I got into the habit of telling girls to kiss me (like in my FR), because it forces them show their cards here (while having plenty of negative consequences, as we discussed).

Ignore her interest a bit, but don't be too cold. Show mixed signals, and set the right frames. You may, as mentioned earlier also challenge her - such as when a girl comes up to you and grab your dick (pure attention whoring), you just look at her and smile "is that all you got girl". It drives them nuts.

Best,