Advanced Technique The bigger the ego, the harder you screen (2011)

[Chase]

Originally posted in the first Girls Chase Forum on Tuesday, 27 December 2011

I'm realizing this from hiring, and it's directly applicable to seduction. I've seen it in pick up, but the lessons weren't as clear as I'm seeing now in hiring.

Basically, the bigger someone's ego is when he comes in for an interview, the harder you screen him.

It's funny, you'll start screening someone and they'll have this cocky tone to their voice and be confidently telling you about their accomplishments. And then you don't qualify, you just keep screening. And screening. And screening. And gradually they become less confident... and less... and less... and then you can hear them practically begging for your approval in their voice tone and the long rants they go off onto about how amazing they are.

IMPORTANT NOTE: at that point you've got to build them back up again with qualifying, then close. If you fail to qualify but then close, it'll feel awkward and artificial after you screened them so hard that you suddenly decided to close, making them think it was all a ruse and they've been had. If you qualify but don't close, they leave with a warm fuzzy feeling but don't know the next step.

A hiring conversation I had yesterday went like this:

• Me: Our ad said "superstars only." What makes you think you're a superstar?
  
  Guy: Blah blah blah I'm amazing.
  
  Me: Your resume says you were a sales manager. Tell me about that.
  
  Guy: Blah blah still confident.
  
  Me: You said you made other people in the office "shine." Can you tell me about that?
  
  Guy: Blah blah some bullshit, he's thrown somewhat off course now and starting to stretch
  
  Me: Okay. Why'd you leave the sales manager job?
  
  Guy: Blah blah oh shit, now he's backpedaling a bit
  
  Me: So you started the online business to get out of the office and sign your own paycheck and never have a boss again.
  
  Guy: Right.
  
  Me: Why are you looking for a job then?
  
  Guy: Uh - explaining himself, disjointed explanation

At this point, I forgot to quality him (whoops), and went straight into telling him about us and setting up his in-person interview. I knew immediately after he wouldn't come after I hammered him like that then offered him an interview without remembering to qualify him first. Silly me.

Find sharp questions that throw people off their schpiel. This is one of the reasons I like finding out girls' motivations so much and then asking them why they aren't doing what they want to be doing. Nothing makes a girl feel silly in front of you quite like that.

• Girl: [long story about how she wants to ride horses and trained as a jockey]
  
  You: Okay, so you love horses.
  
  Girl: Yes.
  
  You: And you trained as a jockey.
  
  Girl: I did.
  
  You: You trained hard - for years.
  
  Girl: Uh-huh.
  
  You: So why are you a bookkeeper then?
  
  Girl: [system meltdown, look of shock comes across her face as she realizes you just read through the bullshit she tells herself]

This is so money. It turns girls to putty in your hands.

I'll do a proper blog post on it soon, just wanted to get the barebones version of it up on here before I forget about this, it's been on my mind.

Chase

 

[Anonymous]

How do you handle it, if they have a system meltdown, because you pointed something like that out. How do you handle it, when they start to get distant because of it or they don't like that you point to those things?

In my experience, at first it spikes up the emotions, oh, he gets it, oh, i'm busted. But sometime later they want to go back to comfortably forgetting the reality and because you remind them of it, they start to drift away. Even, when you have made an impact and put smiles to their faces.

What gives, bro?

 

[Chase]

Hi Dong,

How do you handle it, if they have a system meltdown, because you pointed something like that out. How do you handle it, when they start to get distant because of it or they don't like that you point to those things?

In my experience, at first it spikes up the emotions, oh, he gets it, oh, i'm busted. But sometime later they want to go back to comfortably forgetting the reality and because you remind them of it, they start to drift away. Even, when you have made an impact and put smiles to their faces.

What gives, bro?

May be in how you're coming across when you ask.

The way you want to be asking is as a very interested party who's just exposed a whole in her logic, and you are laughing with her, not at her. So it's a very warm kind of teasing, similar to how you imagine a very kindly teacher might point out to a little child that the story she just told doesn't make sense. So there's a leaning in, wide eyes, and a slow-growing smile as if you're about to laugh. And she tells you and you say, "Uh huh, uh huh," to convey you know it's all B.S. At that point, you've got to step in to save her ego and build her back up again - usually I come in with, "You know what I think?" here, and she will proceed to hang on your every word as you redefine her actions for her in a way she can understand (at this point, she really doesn't understand why she did the things she did, and she really does need someone to explain herself to her).

So then you explain it, and you can get back to conversation again, and now she's stopped being high-and-mighty and is thoroughly on the level with you and treating you as an equal or a mentor instead of the way she was previously.

If you watch The Saint, there's a point where Kilmer's character says to Shue's character, "Why do you cover your mouth like that when you laugh?" pointing out a flaw she has that she doesn't realize until he points it out. But the way he does it is so warm and interested that she can't possibly help but be disarmed. That's how you want to do this.

Chase

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah. You're right. Thinking back, that's probably why they have had this inital emotional spike. My own attitude towards them and who they are, what I learn about them, is initially different too.

Like you describe, it's somewhat friendly and non-judgemental in a way and then again it's like you know more about them than they do - so you can teach them how to think differently.

You say that eventually you two should be on the same level and then it goes from there.

The thing is... I have experienced that unfortunately how I end up with this is that they are put to a lower level than me. And I myself am starting to feel that somehow I should always say what I think, which usually means that they're opinions make me uncomfortable and I try to explain some other point of view that they clearly haven't considered. At that point it's not about really connecting with them but damage control so that even little communication would be possible.

I'm starting to think that I have some manipulative tendencies when these kinds of things happen. I know that actually I want to converse sincerely, but it goes awry.

Part of it is because at first most of the girls are surprised about how I am. They find something that's fascinating. Usually it seems that they don't get my kind of attitude that I first have, that openness, directness and worldview that often. Like others are not like that. But when girls treat me like a rarity it seems weird to me. I'm just normal and to me they act strange. I try to direct them to be more "normal" but I get a feeling that they don't know how.

Probably I'm projecting atleast a little. But man, this bums me out. Only thing I can think of is keep hitting the wall and see what happens. Hope that some day I can consistently inspire the right feelings.

Thanks Chase.

 

[A Life Loquacious]

in fairness, without that elaboration/clarification, that could have seemed like totally different advice... makes sense now, though.

 

[Whizzy]

Chase, would this approach/set of questions work even if they dont meltdown a little or would they just consider it odd you think?

 

[Chase]

Whizzy-

Chase, would this approach/set of questions work even if they dont meltdown a little or would they just consider it odd you think?

Good question.

I've encountered a few people who are so wrapped up in this fantasy of themselves as being all-important superstars that when you question them like this it doesn't even compute - it's like you're talking nonsense to them. They just go, "Ah - maybe you didn't understand. I'm [something amazing]!"

Then they just think you're clueless for not being able to see and admire their majesty.

For all but the most deluded though, this tends to get them thinking and interacting with you like normal people and bring them down off their cloud.

Chase

 

[TheWiseFool]

Hey Chase,

When you have the time, would you mind posting the link to the article related to this post? I find this really interesting because I am still trying to find a balance with screening people. Specifically, hitting that point where the person is backpedaling. I feel really bad for them and sort of help them out cos I empathize with their embarrassment and wouldn't want someone to feel the way I wouldn't want to feel. For example, with the bookkeeper example, she could have chose bookkeeping over horseback riding/equestrian because she didn't think she was good enough or some other thing like that. I see the possibility of a person feeling "attacked" and I would assume that breaks rapport no? But if they are backpedalling, I might say something along the lines of, "Hey, relax. No one is attacking you here! I was just curious. Someone who has built all these years of talent and settled or chose a different path seems like living life for the wrong reasons. Am I wrong?" I probably handled that wrong, so if you don't mind me asking an additional question: What do you do after they backpedal? When they ball up into a defensive stance? You have broken bits of their ego down, now how do you channel the mess before you and steer it/convert it towards your desired outcome?

- The Wise Fool

 

[Chase]

WiseFool-

When you have the time, would you mind posting the link to the article related to this post?

I don't believe I did get around to making a post out of that one, actually. So, that's all there is calling people out on their lack of following their hearts / realizing their dreams, at least to-date! A few brief mentions in other articles, but no dedicated piece on it.

I find this really interesting because I am still trying to find a balance with screening people. Specifically, hitting that point where the person is backpedaling. I feel really bad for them and sort of help them out cos I empathize with their embarrassment and wouldn't want someone to feel the way I wouldn't want to feel. For example, with the bookkeeper example, she could have chose bookkeeping over horseback riding/equestrian because she didn't think she was good enough or some other thing like that. I see the possibility of a person feeling "attacked" and I would assume that breaks rapport no? But if they are backpedalling, I might say something along the lines of, "Hey, relax. No one is attacking you here! I was just curious. Someone who has built all these years of talent and settled or chose a different path seems like living life for the wrong reasons. Am I wrong?" I probably handled that wrong, so if you don't mind me asking an additional question: What do you do after they backpedal? When they ball up into a defensive stance? You have broken bits of their ego down, now how do you channel the mess before you and steer it/convert it towards your desired outcome?

- The Wise Fool

What you yourself are doing in the example above is defusing the tension you've just created, which ends up feeling like relief to the other person, and though you've let her off the hook. The problem with that is that in so doing, you communicate what your standards are for those around you: "Hey, if you don't want to be exceptional, it's okay! I'm cool with boring, unambitious people who surrender your dreams."

So, she ends up feeling relieved to be off the hook, but also boring, uninspired, and stuck in conversation with a guy who has low standards. In this case (defusing), you'd have been much better off to never have put her off balance in the first place.

The way you do this and make it work is to not defuse the tension, but not also be a dick who gets in her face and rubs it in. After you've called her out and she's realized she's not doing what she wants to do, you then get into a discussion about it: why aren't you doing what you want to do? What would you need to change to do what you want to do? Do you think you'll ever do it? When will you do it? Are you waiting for something? Questions like this. Then, instead of you letting her off the hook (and communicating that your standards are non-existent), you're helping her to re-validate herself in your eyes and helping her prove herself to you - so now she's investing in you quite heavily, viewing you as both an authority figure and "on her side", and she's being inspired and discovering things about herself that she probably wasn't formerly consciously aware of and had been sweeping to the side and trying to forget about / not think about - things that you refuse to let her not recognize by shining the spotlight on them and never defusing that tension until she explains why she isn't living the life she really wants to live.

Chase

 

[TheWiseFool]

Okay, so that makes a lot of sense, thank you! I'd forgotten about how standards and screening go hand in hand (I do need ask more screening questions, I've just been in this mode of finding everything interesting to the point of not caring too much about how people live there lives because they are just human beings, and nothing in this life is perfect except one thing, God). Anyways, what you said makes a lot of sense since you are screening the cocky salesman in your post indicating you don't just take anybody.

Random story that relates: I remember doing this to someone last semester and I felt really bad cos I was putting the guy on the spot, since he was getting all nervous. Then someone interrupted and I lost the chance to qualify him so I was like, "Crap!" But I too thought, oh well, I won't see him again (I'm at a state university). I know that the person is a guy and not a girl, but yuh know what I mean haha?!

Thanks again and I'm glad to figure out the "why's" of an action,
- The Wise Fool

 

[ThrowDown]

I've just realized any collection of human interaction I.e. Job interview, interrogations with police, trials at court. Despite the non-social aura it presents, any type of communication can be applied through the dealings and "manipulations" of the psychological mind. Seduction included. interesting..

 

[ray_zorse]

I'm just relating this to a conversation I had with a girl the other day, she was making crepes in a coffee shop... like this

Me: So when you're not making crepes do you work in the coffee shop?
Her: Yeah 2 days a week
Me: Oh right, so what do you do in the rest of the week?
Her: Uhm.. nothing!
Me: (smiles) So you're a lady of leisure... I'm envious

So here she basically failed my screen, not that it was exactly intended as a screen but more as a deep diving question, and I rewarded her for it... because I thought she must have a pretty boring life and I felt sorry for her so I didn't want to rub it in her face... so basically I defused the tension created by her failing my screen, when it could have gone like this

Her: Uhm.. nothing!
Me: Really, so you're a lady of leisure? Don't you get bored of doing nothing?
Her: Ohh erm well I'm not really doing nothing (tension builds cos I've caught her out)
Me: What would be your ideal job if you went to full time work in the future?

This is really good stuff. I'll use it. Hopefully she will then become putty as Chase says, and try harder to qualify herself.

cheers, Ray