The Provider Zone?

[HippertyHopperty]

Hi All,

So Radeng referred to me being Provider zoned a while back as opposed to Friend Zone.

I was wondering if anyone could clarify the differences between the two for me. I know the attributes of a provider and a friend from chase's article on what women want but in terms of differences between being friend zoned and provider zoned I'm still uncertain.

My current understanding is this:
Friend Zone:A girl would be disgusted to think you wanted something more (sex).
Provider Zone:A girl knows your a sexual man and knows you want sex but wont give it to you because your "zoned out" of the lover designation. Maybe they consider you as a an option in the future but not right now (aka never...).

Thanks!

HipHop

 

[Franco]

HipHop,

Provider Zone:A girl knows your a sexual man and knows you want sex but wont give it to you because your "zoned out" of the lover designation. Maybe they consider you as a an option in the future but not right now (aka never...).

Provider zone has little-to-nothing to do with your sexual value. That is where the "Lover" zone retains its value. The Provider zone provides value that gives a woman stability; this includes but is not limited to: money, shelter, gifts, marriage/commitment, etc. In other words, the Provider gives a woman everything that she needs to raise a child. A Provider can certainly provide some Lover value, and if a woman chooses to sleep with a man before he has promised her commitment, then it means his Lover value was higher than his Provider value. At that point, if the woman decides his Provider value is high enough, she'll instinctively try to get him to give more Provider value to her to give her stability along with her sexual fulfillment.

The friend does not provide any qualities that tell the woman that he can give her long-term stability. The friend also does not provide enough Lover value for her to deem him sexually worthy of sacrificing what little he does provide. However, the friend might attempt to provide Lover or Provider value, and this will cause the woman to keep him in the friend zone in case she determines that her standards for the Lover and/or Provider are too high, essentially allowing him to be a "back-up" option. The friend might even have clear intentions toward the woman, but if he does not meet her current Lover or Provider requirements, he will not be able to be more than a friend. If the woman later decides that her standards are too high, or if the friend later focuses on his Lover and/or Provider value to increase its potential, then the chance of him moving out of the friend zone increases.

- Franco

 

[HippertyHopperty]

Hi Franco,

Really helpful post there. That's greatly improved my understanding!

So this is way i see it now. Correct me if I'm off the mark:

The 3 zones are basically mutually exclusive sectors of a circle. Or as Chase put it 3 concentric circles inside each other. Anyway, where i was confused before is being referred to as a "provider". By being referred to as a provider or provider zoned it doesn't mean you don't have sexual value or friend value. All men have varying "scores" as it were in each of the three circles; friend, lover and provider. It just means the girl has placed you entirely in that sector in her dealings with you. Now because you are exclusively in the provider zone and as you say, the lover zone is where you need to have some residence if you are to get laid, the woman who places you entirely in the provider zone will not sleep with you. The same is true for the friend zone for that matter.

Now where it gets slightly grey for me is the quagmire between the friend zone and the provider zone. As you neatly put it, the provider zone is the score of a mans ability to raise and support a child and family. Your examples were money, shelter, gifts etc however those are things i rarely offer to a woman yet i can sometimes end up in the provider zone. This may be due to my current age and the women i engage in sexual relations with (low to mid 20's) so maybe at this point its more of an example of my ability to provide for her solely. Or maybe a girl thinks I would be good at providing for a family in the future?

Regardless, my main example of being a provider currently would be emotional support. I will support and reassure my female friends but i will also support and reassure girls who I'm sexually active with (or trying to be). The definition for me would be the extent to which I'm willing to go. It will always be further for the girl I'm sexually interested in than the one who I'm just a friend to. My intentions would also be clear.

But you said:

the friend might attempt to provide Lover or Provider value, and this will cause the woman to keep him in the friend zone in case she determines that her standards for the Lover and/or Provider are too high, essentially allowing him to be a "back-up" option. The friend might even have clear intentions toward the woman, but if he does not meet her current Lover or Provider requirements, he will not be able to be more than a friend

So that leads me to think i was in the friend zone? I'm still not quite clear on how the provider zone would be different from the friend zone if I'm not actively offering to buy a house and put a girl in it.

My alternative school of thought would be this is exactly the same as being friend zoned, but you just score way more highly in the 3 sectors, friend, lover and provider than someone who is just friend zoned. Therefore you are just a higher value friend (aka provider?) but just don't score highly enough in the lover sector, for whatever reason, to bed the girl.

All thoughts welcome.

Cheers!

HipHop

 

[Franco]

HipHop,

Or maybe a girl thinks I would be good at providing for a family in the future?

You kind of answered your own question here!

Yes, if you're "younger," girls look at your potential to provide for them. So that circle definitely still plays a role in the diagram, even at a younger age. Girls always feel like time is against them, so they always have to be evaluating a man's capability (or potential) to provide for them. So the circle still matters.

Regardless, my main example of being a provider currently would be emotional support.

I'm assuming by "emotional support" that you're referring to emotional management. In that regard, emotional management might be the one aspect that is mutually shared by all circles. Regardless of what role you're entertaining in a girl's life, she needs to feel like you are able to understand her emotionally and leading her toward better things. If she feels like you can't understand her emotionally, then she's going to feel disconnected in every regard.

So that leads me to think i was in the friend zone? I'm still not quite clear on how the provider zone would be different from the friend zone if I'm not actively offering to buy a house and put a girl in it.

This question was probably also answered by the first question. Your "potential" to provide still plays a role here. Sometimes it's difficult to differentiate between whether or not you're in the Friend zone or the Provider zone, but generally if you're in the Provider zone she'll want to flirt with you and talk to you often -- she'll do things that shows that she desires you. If you're in the Friend zone, she'll actively try to avoid leading you on too much because she either (a) does not want to hurt your feelings or (b) does not want to lose the great aspects that you do provide to her as a friend... or both (a) and (b).

My alternative school of thought would be this is exactly the same as being friend zoned, but you just score way more highly in the 3 sectors, friend, lover and provider than someone who is just friend zoned. Therefore you are just a higher value friend (aka provider?) but just don't score highly enough in the lover sector, for whatever reason, to bed the girl.

A friend scores low in both the Lover and Provider zones. The Friend zone has its own personal set of qualities that are unique to it, and generally those qualities vary depending on what the girl wants/likes/needs. But the Lover and Provider qualities always remain the same: the Lover has sexual value and the Provider has child-raising qualities.

- Franco

 

[HippertyHopperty]

Thanks both.

Solid comments as usual, think that pretty much clears it up for me!
When I talk about emotional support as radeng rightly says I am actually referring to the emotional tampon that I need to flush down the toilet!

Got all the terminology and concepts pretty clear in my head now need to focus more on putting them into practise.

Thanks again,

Hip hop

 

[Nuncle]

Hi Hip Hop

If I could add just one further clarification on the female thought process in this regard: Her bracketing of you is not usually conscious, certainly in Western women. We are talking about deeply ingrained, subconscious survival instincts. So if friend-zoning you, she isn't thinking "mwa ha haaaa - I'm gonna keep this sucker hanging on just in case I need him to help me move house next year", she's thinking something like "aw, he's such a sweet, funny guy. Doesn't really do it for me but still the sort of person it would be good to have in my life"

With a lover she's not thinking "mwa ha haaaaa I'll grab him for a night and nick some of his quality DNA" although her subconscious is. She's just thinking "ooooh yeah he's got it going on!"

Provider, she's not necessarily thinking "OOOOh I want this guy to look after me" (again she is subconsciously) more like "ah this one's a classy guy, I'd better behave myself around him"

Hope I've got that right? Franco/Drexel will correct me if not, am sure.

 

[DakenMarquis]

Yeah struggling communicating high lover value, how do we do that in a short time frame: 1-2 dates or less. My desire is to be as smooth, triggering escalation windows, and isolating as soon as possible, since my schedule is busy and I'm getting good with the process w the girls I wanna bed. Like how do I persuade a woman who may see me as a provider type, (despite how I dress, bc that doesnt work), and have her be ready to go with vibe alone. Is it something easily triggered if the attraction is there, or attraction is my foot in the door, to arouse? Even then I need to be more consistent, tailoring her comfort and arousal(seems like a fine string to balance), but I believe I'm getting better at seeing various windows and tactics that will lead it to a mutually pleasurable conclusion

 

[JasonH]

Hi Hip Hop

If I could add just one further clarification on the female thought process in this regard: Her bracketing of you is not usually conscious, certainly in Western women. We are talking about deeply ingrained, subconscious survival instincts. So if friend-zoning you, she isn't thinking "mwa ha haaaa - I'm gonna keep this sucker hanging on just in case I need him to help me move house next year", she's thinking something like "aw, he's such a sweet, funny guy. Doesn't really do it for me but still the sort of person it would be good to have in my life"

With a lover she's not thinking "mwa ha haaaaa I'll grab him for a night and nick some of his quality DNA" although her subconscious is. She's just thinking "ooooh yeah he's got it going on!"

Provider, she's not necessarily thinking "OOOOh I want this guy to look after me" (again she is subconsciously) more like "ah this one's a classy guy, I'd better behave myself around him"

Hope I've got that right? Franco/Drexel will correct me if not, am sure.

This is also how I think of it. Chase may refer to provider as someone who has both some lover value, but more provider value.

It comes down to lover value. If you are sexy to her, she feels excited, aroused, thinks your hot/attractive. If you also show no potential for a relationship( little provider value) then you’re more a ‘just for fun’, one night stand or FWB guy.

If you are the above, but you also show potential for a relationship, she still feels the same way but wants it to be more than just a one-off. Girls are open to going with the flow and letting things escalate to sex with a guy who shows both lover and provider value.

If you are not sexy to her, she doesn’t feel excited, aroused around you and thinks of you as a friend.