Transitions Things I Learned This Weekend: Leading, Hand-Holding (2009)

[Chase]

Originally posted in the first Girls Chase Forum on Monday, 16 November 2009

Things I learned this weekend:

• Taking a girl's hand in yours soon after you get into the interaction is powerful, fun, and sexy. If she has a ring on, it's a great excuse to hold her hand. Hold it up, close to your faces, so she can see you holding her hand, then let it linger. Ask her what the ring means; if she doesn't know, make up a meaning. Or if she doesn't have one on, show her one of your own, and take her fingers and run them over it. Then take her hand in yours. Something about watching the two of your hands lingering there together in front of her face has an effect on her of amplifying whatever attraction she initially felt for you.
  
  
• Having a girl say no to going out with you -- or to accompanying you to another venue or to your home or hers -- only means you have more work to do. I used to view this as a death knell -- she said no? Ok, it's over. Not the case though. Now more and more, I'm seeing these girls say no, but who keep flirting with me and get more attracted. It's the same as dealing with LMR -- you push, they resist, you build more comfort, chill with them a little, then try again. And eventually, what happens? They give in. Come to think of it, I've had girls tell me before that they only got together with their ex-boyfriends after the guy asked them out five or six times -- "He wore me down," they've said. No, as they say, doesn't really mean "no" for a charming, charismatic man; it simply means "not yet."
  
  
• When a girl begins withdrawing from you and goes to leave or move away, co-opt her idea as if you had the same thought, then lead her to wherever it is that she was going. For instance, she says, "We're going to go," but you KNOW she likes you. So you say, "Yeah, it's too loud in here. Let's head outside," and motion her to follow or put your arm / hand out for her to take, and lead the way. Don't assume that the withdraw is about YOU; sometimes it's about the situation / environment. Become sensitive to that and take charge when she's leaving but you can tell she's still into you.
  
  
• When you're leading, assume compliance and never wait for a reaction. Most guys will say, "Come with me," and then stare at a girl expectantly. That's not leading. It's kind of leading -- and kind of following. Instead, say, "Come with me," motion for her to follow, and then start talking about something else. "How'd you end up living out here?" As you begin moving your body away from her, while engaging her in conversation, she'll feel obliged to follow in order to answer properly. Or, most guys will say, "Let's get some food this week," and wait for her reaction. Instead, say, "Let's get some food this week. Do you eat?" She'll laugh and say yes, or of course, or what have you, and then you say, "Fantastic," and trade cells with her. Don't try to work out the logistics then; you can call her and figure them out later (made that mistake tonight with a cute girl on the plane -- whoops, oh well. Lesson learned). My friend has one I like a lot where (during day game), he'll ask, "Are you more of a coffee person or a tea person?" and no matter what she answers, he'll say, "Great, I know a really cool little place about three blocks down, they make the best tea/coffee, you're going to love it," and then starts walking there with her. Assume that she's complying and just start going.

Chase

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

Having a girl say no to going out with you -- or to accompanying you to another venue or to your home or hers -- only means you have more work to do. I used to view this as a death knell -- she said no? Ok, it's over. Not the case though. Now more and more, I'm seeing these girls say no, but who keep flirting with me and get more attracted. It's the same as dealing with LMR -- you push, they resist, you build more comfort, chill with them a little, then try again. And eventually, what happens? They give in. Come to think of it, I've had girls tell me before that they only got together with their ex-boyfriends after the guy asked them out five or six times -- "He wore me down," they've said. No, as they say, doesn't really mean "no" for a charming, charismatic man; it simply means "not yet."

I realize that "it depends on the situation," but I really don't know how persistent a dominant man should be. If a girl has ignored the texts three or four times to set up a date, isn't it just better to give up and move on? Or should I instead adopt the attitude of "every few weeks, just try setting up a date with a text. You have nothing to lose; so long as you don't let her take up mental space beyond that necessary to form a text, you're fine and not chasing?"

Don't try to work out the logistics then; you can call her and figure them out later (made that mistake tonight with a cute girl on the plane -- whoops, oh well. Lesson learned).

Is this a specific exception? Because I've found, and I believe read from you, that setting up the logistics early and in person really prevent flaking and cement you in her mind.

 

[Franco]

Anatman,

Having a girl say no to going out with you -- or to accompanying you to another venue or to your home or hers -- only means you have more work to do. I used to view this as a death knell -- she said no? Ok, it's over. Not the case though. Now more and more, I'm seeing these girls say no, but who keep flirting with me and get more attracted. It's the same as dealing with LMR -- you push, they resist, you build more comfort, chill with them a little, then try again. And eventually, what happens? They give in. Come to think of it, I've had girls tell me before that they only got together with their ex-boyfriends after the guy asked them out five or six times -- "He wore me down," they've said. No, as they say, doesn't really mean "no" for a charming, charismatic man; it simply means "not yet."

I realize that "it depends on the situation," but I really don't know how persistent a dominant man should be. If a girl has ignored the texts three or four times to set up a date, isn't it just better to give up and move on? Or should I instead adopt the attitude of "every few weeks, just try setting up a date with a text. You have nothing to lose; so long as you don't let her take up mental space beyond that necessary to form a text, you're fine and not chasing?"

I believe there's a very distinct difference between what persistence and "chasing" is between in-person interactions and phone interactions. Check out a post I answered recently here.

Don't try to work out the logistics then; you can call her and figure them out later (made that mistake tonight with a cute girl on the plane -- whoops, oh well. Lesson learned).

Is this a specific exception? Because I've found, and I believe read from you, that setting up the logistics early and in person really prevent flaking and cement you in her mind.

Well, if you read carefully what he says here, he states that you should set up the fact that you two are going on a date in person. But that's it. The actual time and location should be determined over SMS or a phone call because you put pressure on a girl to accept a day and time in person when she really doesn't know her schedule yet (and doesn't want to really commit to anything). This is often what causes girls to say "yes" and agree to a time in person and then cancel as soon as you hit them up later. Instead, just set up the fact that you two are going on a date (and what it is: drinks, ice cream, yogurt, etc.), and then set up the actual time and location during the week.

- Franco

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

I believe there's a very distinct difference between what persistence and "chasing" is between in-person interactions and phone interactions. Check out a post I answered recently here.

That response is perfect. I think I'm ready to move beyond the terms strict boundaries and rules and begin molding them to my situations.

Well, if you read carefully what he says here, he states that you should set up the fact that you two are going on a date in person. But that's it. The actual time and location should be determined over SMS or a phone call because you put pressure on a girl to accept a day and time in person when she really doesn't know her schedule yet (and doesn't want to really commit to anything). This is often what causes girls to say "yes" and agree to a time in person and then cancel as soon as you hit them up later. Instead, just set up the fact that you two are going on a date (and what it is: drinks, ice cream, yogurt, etc.), and then set up the actual time and location during the week.

Thanks, Franco!