Tired of obstacles

[Sam]

Hello gentlemen.

Last week I went to a night club. As I entered the room and before even reaching the bar, a woman locked eyes with me, which lasted for a couple of minutes straight. She clearly liked me. I talked to her and within 2 minutes I got her number. Two days later we met at 8pm. Great interaction which ended with kisses AND I led her to my place. We kissed more and I took off her top. She said "you make me horny, too bad I have period." I said: "you are lying". She said: "Why lie? I want this". I believed her because she felt pain when I touched her belly and also she was wearing a period underwear.

I call her next day to show some comfort/interest. She was ok on the phone. I told her to let me know if she could make it for a drink by the end of the week. She said she would see that depending on a work paper she has to deliver. No call until today. So, I call her 2 hours ago. She was cool on the phone. She said she said she is expecting friends/booked for the weekend. She counter-proposed coffee during the week.

I said: "coffee is for girlfriends and we are no such thing"
She said: "we would have problem, if we were girlfriends, but don' t push things"
I said: "I don't push, I am just making clear what I am and what I am not"
I said: "I am not doing coffee. You will pass by my place for a glass of wine"
She said: "Haha, no...If you like coffee."
I said "have a good afternoon, we'll see"

I texted her last: "The only way for a woman to send me away is to show me she doesn' t see me as a lover. If this is not your case, you know my number."
Number deleted. No response on her part (so far).

This is the 3d time this is happening to me in a month. Why is this happening? Do they think they will make me chase?

 

[trashKENNUT]

Sam,

We kissed more and I took off her top. She said "you make me horny, too bad I have period." I said: "you are lying". She said: "Why lie? I want this". I believed her because she felt pain when I touched her belly and also she was wearing a period underwear.

The best you can do is comfort her and doing it slow. She came back to your place. There was obviously no reason to call her a liar. It's really bad to tell a women to her face that she lied, even if she does. and she was also on her period, although she want it too.

I call her next day to show some comfort/interest. She was ok on the phone. I told her to let me know if she could make it for a drink by the end of the week. She said she would see that depending on a work paper she has to deliver. No call until today. So, I call her 2 hours ago. She was cool on the phone. She said she said she is expecting friends/booked for the weekend. She counter-proposed coffee during the week.

I said: "coffee is for girlfriends and we are no such thing"
She said: "we would have problem, if we were girlfriends, but don' t push things"
I said: "I don't push, I am just making clear what I am and what I am not"
I said: "I am not doing coffee. You will pass by my place for a glass of wine"
She said: "Haha, no...If you like coffee."
I said "have a good afternoon, we'll see"

I texted her last: "The only way for a woman to send me away is to show me she doesn' t see me as a lover. If this is not your case, you know my number."
Number deleted. No response on her part (so far).

This is the 3d time this is happening to me in a month. Why is this happening? Do they think they will make me chase?

She likes you much but overall you are taking this girls personally by saying things like "coffee is for girlfriends and we are no such thing" and "i don't push, i am just making clear what i am and what i am not." You can evade all this by persisting warmthly, suggest other times and texting her other days. All in all the last sentence kill you very much. Take a warmth approach, girls will be more responsive to you.

Zac

 

[Franco]

Sam,

You are not the first I've seen on the boards to have a particular issue that I want to bring up, but let's get to the gist of your situation first.

She said "you make me horny, too bad I have period." I said: "you are lying". She said: "Why lie? I want this". I believed her because she felt pain when I touched her belly and also she was wearing a period underwear.

I would say that 9 times out of 10 this is more of a "shit test" than it is an actual obstacle. Even if she is on her period, there is absolutely no reason that she can't have sex with you. However, she could be nervous about what you'll think of her when she is on her period, and the most important thing here is to make it sound like it's not a big deal at all.

Do you know what I do when a girl tells me she is on her period when we are back at my place? I whisper in her ear: "...I think that's hot." And then I continue to keep kissing her lips and her neck while feeling up her body. This completely throws them off of their game because women RARELY meet men who think that them being on their period is actually attractive. Once she sees that her being on her period doesn't phase you, she'll usually just continue to let you escalate. If she is actually on her period, she might request to head to the bathroom so that she can remove her tampon. In the meantime, just grab a towel and lay it on top of your bed (or wherever you'll be having sex) to help prevent a mess.

I said: "coffee is for girlfriends and we are no such thing"
She said: "we would have problem, if we were girlfriends, but don' t push things"
I said: "I don't push, I am just making clear what I am and what I am not"
I said: "I am not doing coffee. You will pass by my place for a glass of wine"
She said: "Haha, no...If you like coffee."
I said "have a good afternoon, we'll see"

I texted her last: "The only way for a woman to send me away is to show me she doesn' t see me as a lover. If this is not your case, you know my number."

I've seen other members on the board do this, so I am going to point this out. Do not try to preach to women what Chase preaches to you on this website.

Telling a girl that coffee for a second date only leads to friendship is not going to resonate with her. Telling a girl that her actions are not leading towards you two becoming lovers is also not going to resonate with her. Instead of telling women what you know, you need to show them. If you try to logically explain to them why something will or will not happen because of something you learned on this website, they are either going to be put off or laugh at you and probably never speak to you again.

This situation was definitely salvageable. She was definitely interested, and the reason she proposed coffee during the week is that it was the "safest" thing to suggest to protect her reputation. A woman who hasn't slept with you yet isn't going to propose meeting you at your place. It comes across as needy and possibly slutty, and that is something that every woman with any shred of dignity will avoid.

The best way to have handled her counter-proposition for coffee would have been to counter-propose that she meet at your place for dinner. Something like the following would have sufficed:

• Her: "How about we get coffee next week?"
  You: "Let's order takeout and do a movie at my place instead. Maybe we can pop open a bottle of wine while we're at it! =)"

Always lead women to what you want them to do. Never point out their "mistakes" and tell them what they should do. This will never fly with them, and it will always be an obstacle if you continue to do it.

I hope this insight helps!

- Franco

 

[Sam]

"I would say that 9 times out of 10 this is more of a "shit test" than it is an actual obstacle. Even if she is on her period, there is absolutely no reason that she can't have sex with you. However, she could be nervous about what you'll think of her when she is on her period, and the most important thing here is to make it sound like it's not a big deal at all."


Thank you for your reply, but let me provide you with an addition I forgot.

To her period argument I replied: "It doesn't bother me at all" to which she replied "But it does bother me". I said "No prob" I kissed her more, she resisted for more, and yes to be honest it is not my best to have sex with her on her period, nor on casual coffee-style cloths. So, I just thought that a proper night drink where she would be more feminine (high heels etc) would be ideal.

About my counter-proposal for wine: what is exaclty the difference between my way and your way? I do not see a significant difference.

Again thank you.

 

[Sam]

"Instead of telling women what you know, you need to show them."

My idea is that there is no better way to show them than to tell them that your are not interested in any other slot than the lover slot and then honor this commitment by disappearing from the face of the earth.

My idea is that the aforemention style of "my way or the high way" is rare to them. What they know is the soft chaser type of man, so I am guessing they should be impressed by a guy who is ready to leave...and actually do it.

Where am I exactly mistaken and how could I improve my approach to this part of dating?

Getting so fast so close to multiple sex opportunities within a month on a regular basis and not actually receiving sex can be frustrating.

 

[Dunking Style]

I said: "I don't push, I am just making clear what I am and what I am not"
I said: "I am not doing coffee. You will pass by my place for a glass of wine"

As always, here is my brutally straightforward and honest opinion.

You sounded pretty damn rude.

Two more things I noticed:

1. Instead of turning her down with the "I am not doing coffee", just suggest something else, like Chase mentioned. That way, because you didn't turn her down..she doesn't feel rejected. The wine event would merely appear to be another suggestion..that's all.

2. You gave her no power in the decision making process. Both of you are going to do this activity, which requires consent from both you AND the girl.
"You will pass by my place for a glass of wine" - Even if she loves that idea, it will feel like it's being forced down her throat..and nobody ever likes that. It could've been as easy as "How about coming by my place for a wine? Sounds good?"

No rudeness.
No rejected feelings.
A positive attitude.
And ofcourse..some room for her to make the decision for herself.

 

[Franco]

Hey Sam,

To her period argument I replied: "It doesn't bother me at all" to which she replied "But it does bother me". I said "No prob" I kissed her more, she resisted for more, and yes to be honest it is not my best to have sex with her on her period, nor on casual coffee-style cloths. So, I just thought that a proper night drink where she would be more feminine (high heels etc) would be ideal.

There is still an issue with what you said here. Saying "But it does not bother me" is definitely NOT the same as what I had suggested above. Your reply is what I like to call an "expected response."

It's probably not the first time she has mentioned that she is on her period to a man that she is willing to sleep with, but the two responses she would be expecting from him are:

• 1) "Oh, ok then."
  2) "It doesn't bother me."

The first reply will sound weak and obviously lead the interaction nowhere. The second reply will trigger an automated response in her brain to say exactly what she said to you, which is "But it bothers me." The reply you gave her still sounds too contrived and doesn't actually throw her out of her mental state. She'll likely still have here defenses up, and she won't be any more sexually aroused by you making that statement.

If you were to say, "...I think that's hot," it's a response her brain probably wasn't expecting, and if you continue to be physical with her while saying it (and possibly even kiss her neck even more passionately at this point), then she might legitimately believe you! And this will increase her sexual arousal level as well. Keep in mind that women who are on their period also tend to have a higher sex drive.

About my counter-proposal for wine: what is exaclty the difference between my way and your way? I do not see a significant difference.

Dunking Style pretty much covered this. The difference in the two approaches is the level of warmth and compassion in the way you come across. Your text to her came across as cold and calculated. Women do not respond well to this type of approach, especially over text.

My idea is that there is no better way to show them than to tell them that your are not interested in any other slot than the lover slot and then honor this commitment by disappearing from the face of the earth.

My idea is that the aforemention style of "my way or the high way" is rare to them. What they know is the soft chaser type of man, so I am guessing they should be impressed by a guy who is ready to leave...and actually do it.

Then your idea is incorrect, and it is not what Chase recommends on this website. Chase never recommends ever "telling" a woman which category you plan to put her into. Instead, you must "guide" her into that category by the way you frame the interaction. Sexual framing is what will cause a woman to want to have sex with you. Then afterward, if you wish to only be her lover, then you need to still be warm with her, but not give her "boyfriend-like treatment." This will ensure that she knows that your relationship is purely sexual, but she also won't feel used and unattractive if you continue to be positive and warm around her.

If you continue to tell women what they should or should not be, then instead of them going your way, they will always take the "high way."

Where am I exactly mistaken and how could I improve my approach to this part of dating?

As Zac and Dunking have both mentioned, the main reason you have been unable to close the deal with these women is the level of warmth you are providing to them. You need to make things fun, relaxed, and exciting for them if you want them to sleep with you. Now that doesn't mean you can't move things forward quickly (which it seems like you have been -- and that is good), but you need to do it in a way that the woman won't feel like she'll experience buyer's remorse if she were to go to bed with you.

So in summary, focus on how to become a warm person so that women feel like they'll enjoy going to bed with you, and I think you will have much more success. =)

I hope this provides some clarity to your questions.

- Franco

 

[Sam]

Gentlemen, I would like to thank you for your constructive feedback.

Yes, Franco, you did help.

My difficulty in being warm consists in my understanding of warmth as weakness. In my effort not to be soft, I thought I was holding my ground with women. And you know it does have results. The difference is that with my thinking results do not last and are extremely short-lived and fragile. Yes, if in this world there were only two extremes of a man's attitude, then my extreme (too much edge) would beat the other extreme (too soft and accommodating). Fortunately, the world is not like that and we, men, should strive to find our path to the middle ground.

One last concern: let's assume I made my wine proposal in the warm, diplomatic, and socially intelligent manner you all suggested and she refused. In that case, should I just accept her proposal for a coffee (for a second time) thinking that I would turn it into a lay?

Many thanks.

 

[trashKENNUT]

One last concern: let's assume I made my wine proposal in the warm, diplomatic, and socially intelligent manner you all suggested and she refused. In that case, should I just accept her proposal for a coffee (for a second time) thinking that I would turn it into a lay?

You can accept her coffee invitation but it's better you counter offer. Because she knows you want to bed her. It will take more effort if you accept her coffee invitation.

Zac