Touching nose - f-off signal?

[Darius]

Hello everyone,

I recently started meeting new girls again, and I noticed one specific type of body language that has me confused -

Right after locking eyes with a girl for the first time, she rubs her nose and breaks eye contact looking to the side.

This seems to me to be the opposite of touching her hair, since that is pretty much a clear sign of interest. But at the same time she doesn't break eye contact looking up, so it's less of a dead give-away that she's not open/attracted.

From what I see this tends to happen if I lock eyes with girls that are accompanied by guys or that are rushed, but it also happened on a recent date I had where we met and immediately after we said hello to each other she did this (and multiple times at the beginning of the date, then she started touching her hair).

I didn't approach the girls who did this to see their reaction, and the date went a bit weird, she was very friendly but refused my advances in a very polite way.

Anyone else notice this? Have you managed to pull girls that did this at the beginning of an interaction? Is this a fuck-off signal?

 

[ulrich]

If it’s the middle finger she uses for rubbing, I think that’s a signal of anger and stress.

Any other finger, I am not sure.

 

[Will_V]

I always take nose rubs as a sign of something she doesn't like. It's like when people start coughing around you, it's a sort of psychosomatic reflex of displeasure.

That's not to say you should take it all that seriously unless it crops up often, because women have all kinds of inner beliefs. One will rub her nose at a filthy biker and another will rub her nose at a straight laced guy. But if it crops up often, I would take a look at whether my fundamentals were on point, whether I am not going around looking needy or too attentive (I've noticed women get really turned off with their body language when I pay them too much 'inexpressive' attention - that is when I'm not communicating anything interesting with body language but just sort of getting locked onto her, which can happen if I'm too much in my head - or just sort of looking too eager).

As for looking sideways, that's neutral. Even when a woman looks down it's not necessarily a sign of interest - it might simply mean she feels self-conscious and unable to express what she really thinks because maybe you look dominant in a type of way she's not interested in - although looking down is always much better than alternatives and gives you a lot more to work with than a neutral expression.

IMO the best way to counter this is to always, as Chase mentions all the time, treat girls as 'silly and cute'. These days I always smile in a sort of arrogant way at a girl who gives me an IODI (indicator of disinterest?), if she was really disinterested she'll ignore it and if it was some mixup of inner reactions it might make her think she 'inadvertently' showed interest.
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If this happened on a date though, and resulted in 'politeness' my feeling is something about your fundamentals is not on point.

 

[Darius]

If it’s the middle finger she uses for rubbing, I think that’s a signal of anger and stress.

Any other finger, I am not sure.

hum, that's an interesting point. I never looked at what finger she uses for it.

I always take nose rubs as a sign of something she doesn't like. It's like when people start coughing around you, it's a sort of psychosomatic reflex of displeasure.

That's not to say you should take it all that seriously unless it crops up often, because women have all kinds of inner beliefs. One will rub her nose at a filthy biker and another will rub her nose at a straight laced guy. But if it crops up often, I would take a look at whether my fundamentals were on point, whether I am not going around looking needy or too attentive (I've noticed women get really turned off with their body language when I pay them too much 'inexpressive' attention - that is when I'm not communicating anything interesting with body language but just sort of getting locked onto her, which can happen if I'm too much in my head - or just sort of looking too eager).

That makes a lot of sense, it was my gut feeling as well.

It seems to happen to a very specific type of girl for me only, that is - girls that have guys accompanying them, or girls that are rushed. Actually it's precisely these types of girls that I do look at but don't smile, so your point on inexpressiveness may be spot on.

The first group is because, well, I don't want to have any problems with the guy, and the second group is because if she seems that busy I prefer to let her go about her day. But I still look at them, they're women and they're pretty. I'm not sure what to do in these cases. Maybe with the rushed girls I can still smile and give good vibes. But with the accompanied ones, I really don't want issues with their guys (been there way too many times).

As for looking sideways, that's neutral. Even when a woman looks down it's not necessarily a sign of interest - it might simply mean she feels self-conscious and unable to express what she really thinks because maybe you look dominant in a type of way she's not interested in - although looking down is always much better than alternatives and gives you a lot more to work with than a neutral expression.

Yes exactly! I really was expecting them to look upwards, sideways look is normally neutral, it should in theory mean she sees me as someone that's neither above her nor below.

I guess the nose is enough in that case to communicate how she feels.

IMO the best way to counter this is to always, as Chase mentions all the time, treat girls as 'silly and cute'. These days I always smile in a sort of arrogant way at a girl who gives me an IODI (indicator of disinterest?), if she was really disinterested she'll ignore it and if it was some mixup of inner reactions it might make her think she 'inadvertently' showed interest.

great tip! thank you. Just the guy issue is still a thing, I don't know if I'm being paranoid or not. Maybe a slight, smile will do a good enough job - let her know I'm cool, but not trigger the dude into getting territorial.

If this happened on a date though, and resulted in 'politeness' my feeling is something about your fundamentals is not on point.

i'll be honest, I'm not in my best shape right now. I have a lot of things I could pinpoint -- mainly the fact that I'm dealing with a bad case of gynecomastia (man boobs) from an experiment I did a while ago that messed up my hormones. It's really not a pleasant sight to see a fit guy with girl boobs. I'm working on getting it fixed, taking medication etc. But it will take at least a couple of months for it to go away, if it does without surgery.

I'm working on other fundamentals as well, posture and all that.

I guess until I get everything back in check I'll have to deal with the occasional girl turning her nose up (heh ) at me. That's fine, it doesn't really affect me as a person.

 

[Will_V]

hum, that's an interesting point. I never looked at what finger she uses for it.



That makes a lot of sense, it was my gut feeling as well.

It seems to happen to a very specific type of girl for me only, that is - girls that have guys accompanying them, or girls that are rushed. Actually it's precisely these types of girls that I do look at but don't smile, so your point on inexpressiveness may be spot on.

The first group is because, well, I don't want to have any problems with the guy, and the second group is because if she seems that busy I prefer to let her go about her day. But I still look at them, they're women and they're pretty. I'm not sure what to do in these cases. Maybe with the rushed girls I can still smile and give good vibes. But with the accompanied ones, I really don't want issues with their guys (been there way too many times).



Yes exactly! I really was expecting them to look upwards, sideways look is normally neutral, it should in theory mean she sees me as someone that's neither above her nor below.

I guess the nose is enough in that case to communicate how she feels.



great tip! thank you. Just the guy issue is still a thing, I don't know if I'm being paranoid or not. Maybe a slight, smile will do a good enough job - let her know I'm cool, but not trigger the dude into getting territorial.



i'll be honest, I'm not in my best shape right now. I have a lot of things I could pinpoint -- mainly the fact that I'm dealing with a bad case of gynecomastia (man boobs) from an experiment I did a while ago that messed up my hormones. It's really not a pleasant sight to see a fit guy with girl boobs. I'm working on getting it fixed, taking medication etc. But it will take at least a couple of months for it to go away, if it does without surgery.

I'm working on other fundamentals as well, posture and all that.

I guess until I get everything back in check I'll have to deal with the occasional girl turning her nose up (heh ) at me. That's fine, it doesn't really affect me as a person.

In my experience IOIs or lack thereof (and even bad indicators) are 99% of the time reactions to the presentation of my personality. From one day to the next they can change based off my state.

Generally girls don't reflexively react to the things guys get worried about (like short/ugly/bald/fat/whatever) because they see these things regularly and they simply screen out these aspects from their emotional reactions. What makes them jump one way or the other, for good or for worse, is especially the way a man reacts to them in the moment, because this is where something previously unknown (what a man thinks of them or how he perceives them or himself in relation to them) emerges in direct consequence to their presence.

 

[Darius]

thanks a lot for the tip, Will. I'll try to examine my 'inner' fundamentals and how I present myself emotionally to women