FR Troubleshooting & calibrating the vibe preemptively

[Gladiator]

Background:

Somehow I always tend to end up with difficult targets or difficult situations. Maybe I like seduction with a plotline, idk honestly. Hopefully, all this experience will come in handy when I meet Megan Fox and seduce her
Anyway, jokes aside here is something that happened yesterday:

I frequent a Starbucks near where I live and there are a whole lot of hot Russian baristas who work there. I don't game them since I don't like to be that "guy" who hits on everything that moves and has a wet basement and like I mentioned I frequent there. However, if a chic is hot, I flirt without forethought. I just don't push past that.

Flashback:

A month ago when I went there, I wanted to pee but the toilet has a code to enter. So, I asked the code from the barista, let's call her Olga. She gave the code but with a very rude voice and facial expression. I thought, "WTF! either she hasn't been dicked well recently or she just hates me".

Even though I pickup chics from Starbucks, my game is very under the radar. So, I thought she couldn't have known that I do that and there must be something else. Since I don't want to make enemies there, I wanted to resolve it.
When I got back from the toilet, I decided to get a coffee and talk to her. So, I go to the counter and she's busy and there's a whole lot of customers behind me. There was not enough time to talk but anyway, I still went ahead.

Before I ordered, I made a strong eye-contact but she still had that bitchy face.

Olga: What did you want?
Me: A latte
Olga: What size?
Me: Small please
I'm still holding a strong eye contact
Me: I want to pay with the app.
Olga: Ok fine
Me: Anyway, how's your day been?
Olga: it's busy with a stern voice

I soften my gaze and say

Me: I think I can see
Olga: *No expression*
Me: Btw I like your earrings (it was something like goth chics wear)
Olga: Hahahaha.. thanks
Olga: I like your hair
Me: Thanks (again intensifying my eye-contact)


Security guy was watching all this and I didn't want to draw attention and just left to wait for the coffee. I grab my coffee and head upstairs and I see a hot chic reading a book. I thought "target selected". I go sit next to her and while I'm finding the right moment to open since she had a closed body language, I felt someone coming and sitting across me and glancing towards my general direction. I didn't turn immediately to see who it was and it was "Olga", the barista that I met downstairs.

I thought, WTF.. what's up with her.. she must be crazy cos she's doing all sorts of things like dragging her chair and moving a lot. She wanted me to go talk to her. I thought I have 2 choices, just to game the chic next to me who I've already selected or go talk to Olga who already has basic rapport. There was no way to decide who was the best choice to talk to.

However, getting up and going talking to Olga would be high investment and if things go south, I'd lose the target chic as well due to negative preselection. Also, gaming hired guns is not something I like since if it goes south with her, it's going to affect my reputation in the cafe. So, I decided to stick with my original target. After 15 mins or so, Olga got up and left (she must've thought what a pussy

Anyway, whatever...

Then a couple of mins later I opened my target but somehow she wasn't as attractive as I thought and also she was not giving me much either. So it ended there..

Vibing:

I thought I'll game Olga if she gives me something to work with next time and decided to take it slow with her.

Every time I went to Starbucks, she'd grab attention somehow like talking loudly to her colleagues or laughing etc. On one of the days, when ordering I looked at her name tag which read, let's say "Og" (name hidden due to privacy). I say,

Me: Does OG mean Olga?
Olga: hahaha.. yes
Me: I repeated it again with a strong eye-contact..

The next couple of times I saw her, I'd call her name "Olgaaaaaaaa" and she'd giggle.. I was just hard-wiring me in her brain to associate me with something... All under the radar

Asking out:
I decided to ask her out since there was a vibe going on between us and so one of the days when ordering my drink:
Me: You haven't worn your earring today.. With a straight face
Olga: (She touches her earring and says.. )
oh I have.. look

Other customers are watching..

Me: Nice.. btw, are you single?
Olga: Hahaha.. no I have a BF
Me: (I tease her) stop lying Olga.. (with a strong eye-contact)
Olga: Hahaha.. no really.. I have. I can show you a picture and she pulls out her phone..

I was like WTF..? Other customers are waiting in the line and she's just flirting with me and for nothing? Maybe she was getting back at me for that auto-rejection. Girls are silly and cute.. we know it
Me: No.. all good.. I trust you and left.

Thereafter, when I ran into her.. I'd just call out her name like I used to do.. "Olgaaaaa".. and she'd giggle.. at least I thought I'll be on good terms which helps with preselection since I go there often.

Yesterday:
Olga wasn't there and I ordered the coffee and was waiting to collect and I notice a very hot chic waiting as well. I position next to her..

Me: Those are nice shoes
Anna: (lifts her leg and says..) this?

Let's call her Anna

I'm holding strong eye-contact and say,

Me: Hmm..
Anna: (points to her trouser) I'm matching it with my shorts
Me: Interesting.. (I want her to invest before I talk a lot. So I say it in a questioning tone)
Anna: (Qualifies).. it matches know?
Me: Yep.. I like it.. do you always match your clothes?
Anna: Not always
Me: once a week (in a teasing voice)
Anna: no once a month (replying in a teasing voice)
Me: More like when it rains on a Saturday?
Anna: Exactly (smiling and with a... I think I want to fuck you look)
Me: ok.. now I understand (smiling and with a... same here look)
Me: are you Latina?
Anna: what made you think so?
Me: your look?
Anna: what about?
Me: your hair.. voice tone etc..
Anna: Hahahaha.. no I'm Russian
Me: interesting.. you seem like a fake Russian
Anna: and why is that?
Me: you don't have blonde hair and..
Anna: Blue eyes?
Me: No.. Russian accent
Anna: thanks
Me: for?
Anna: I don't have Russian accent
Me: it's nothing good or bad about accents.. I actually like native accents

She pulls out her phone and shows a few pictures of a few of her Russian friends who don't look like Russians and we talk a bit about that

Me: Anyway, what do you do?
Anna: I'm a manager in a small company
Me: nice.. but why do you have to flex when saying that? (Teasing)
Anna: hey.. I like being a manager
Me: why is that?
Anna: I like to control people..
Me: hmm.. I can see that
Anna: why?
Me: I just thought you're dominant (strong eye-contact.. its really hard to explain the vibe in words here.. but it means something like... I think you're mistaken, we should find out and then you will know.)

Thing about Russians is, they play the game so well.. it's a frame battle even if you want to keep it friendly.. it's a lot of sexual tension. I somehow enjoy the whole process more than with other nationality chics

Anna: *Makes very strong eye-contact*

Our eye-contact lasts for a few secs.

Anna: What do you do?
Me: I'm an analyst
Anna: where?

We talk about my work and in the middle of it, she takes a picture of a barista

Me: Do you know her?
Anna: of course.. she's my friend
Me: hmm.. I thought you're stalking her
Anna: hahaha.. no I know her.. all my friends work here and they all are Russians
Me: Nice.. I know some of them

I realized she was Olga's friend.

Anna: oh ok..
Me: What do you do for fun besides stalking?
Anna: Hahahaha
Guess who comes? Yes.. Olga

Me: Hi Olga

Olga: Hi (doesn't make eye-contact intensely)

I should've picked up on this but maybe I got greedy and wanted to milk the preselection as much as I can. I wanted to create instant rapport as a group.. bad move?
Anna: ohh.. You know each other?

Me: Yes.. Olga always stalks me..

Huge mistake. I don't know why I did that but in my mind I was thinking, if I trigger positive reaction, it'll be easy for seducing Anna and since Olga always just laughs when I call her "Olgaaaaa", thought she'd do the same. I didn't expect her to throw me under the bus.

Olga: What? I don't even know your name..

Me: Makes strong eye-contact with Olga with a straight face

Olga: I mean I know him but I don't remember his name. He's our regular customer.

I knew I fucked it up. I quickly calibrate and try to damage control but it was done.

Me: Yep I come here often and I'm a gold customer according to the app
Anna: oh ok.. I didn't know they have an app.
Olga: ya, they have good deals
Me: Do you get free beverages? (*Damage control*)
Olga: yep.. but generally not during the weekends
Me: oh ok.. still not bad
Olga: yep.. what do you want to drink?
Anna: hmm

Olga: come I'll choose something for you
There was some womanese facial expressions between them and they both left

Me: Big *FACEPALM*


Questions:
Appreciate if you guys can answer these:

- Where exactly did I fuck it up both with Olga and Anna?
- How do you calibrate pre-emptively and don't end up in damage control which I seem to run into often? Like how'd you guess that Olga who was always being friendly suddenly would throw me under the bus?

It can happen with just one girl too. I maybe over-excited or under-excited for her based on her mood, she'd be the opposite of it. How do you match your vibe before she opens her mouth or gives you something to calibrate to? If I'm under-excited, she may go into auto-rejection and if I'm over-excited, I'll lose value (face)...

- Could you point me all the things that I could've done differently?

In my last post, some of you guys mentioned about my teasing a lot and I agree with that which I'm trying to bring down as much as possible but it's hard. All of my game is based mostly on eye-contact and teasing. So, it's going to affect the core of my game. The fluff talk that we do is just for some comfort. Also, when I tease, I touch... its a form of push-pull. Although I dont think so much technically, now thinking of it, she'll associate those spike in her emotions with my touch.. I just do that naturally.. I balance out with my facial expressions with a soft-gaze and if we're not in public, I pull in and hug sometimes...

Tl;dr how do you calibrate your vibe to the girl to match her energy before you become aware of her current mood? How do you match your vibe before she opens her mouth or gives you something to calibrate to? If I'm under-excited than her, she may go into auto-rejection and if I'm over-excited, I'll lose value (face)...

 

[fog]

Gladiator, i love how youre open to troubleshooting! this mindset gives you the opportunity to improve fast

the way i see it, you could stand to add more elicitation. The purpose is twofold:

1. understand her and what drives her so you can stay calibrated and move the seduction forward
2. increase your strategic flexibility so when things are not working, you can try something different

Example:

Me: why is that?
Anna: I like to control people..
Me: hmm.. I can see that
Anna: why?
Me: I just thought you're dominant (strong eye-contact.. its really hard to explain the vibe in words here.. but it means something like... I think you're mistaken, we should find out and then you will know.)

Here I see you have asked a question, then labeled her as something she doesn't really agree with. this is an instance where you would have benefited from more elicitation.

Continuing with this direction looks like going deeper and deeper into finding the motivations of this controlling behavior. What is it about controlling people that does it for her? Maybe she desires to be seen as smart and competent in other peoples eyes...or a lack of control over herself and her environment scares her...

Whatever it may be, you are learning some pretty key info about her...info that you can use to properly frame her, stimulate her and pre-emptively handle future resistance

Glow noted in his elicitation post, that stimulation is the 2nd step after elicitation. Keep in mind that you can follow a pattern of elicitation-stimulation-elicitation to keep things flowing, rather than looking at it like elicitation THEN stimulation. Here's some ideas to stimulate on the social topic of control:

• explore the different types of control [parental, friend, business]
• how it feels to lose control [rollercoasters, drinking]
• too much control vs too little control
• contrast frame against people with bad controlling traits

If everything's going well, you should find youre well calibrated to her social frame and she will also be stimulated. when a girl is stimulated, it's a good opportunity to transition into sexual verbals. In general it is easy to take any feeling/emotion/experience, verbalize it from an interesting social perspective, then move over to the sexual side of it. I call this social-sexual. example, going from social control to sexual control. Here's some ideas for sexual control topics:

• the impact of control on sexual expression
• the deep pleasure of trusting someone else to be in control

Can you see how this would lead to a different calibrated outcome as opposed to labeling her as a dominant stalker?

Also:

Me: Yep I come here often and I'm a gold customer according to the app
Anna: oh ok.. I didn't know they have an app.
Olga: ya, they have good deals
Me: Do you get free beverages? (*Damage control*)
Olga: yep.. but generally not during the weekends
Me: oh ok.. still not bad
Olga: yep.. what do you want to drink?
Anna: hmm

Olga: come I'll choose something for you
There was some womanese facial expressions between them and they both left

Me: Big *FACEPALM*

You accepted the frame and continued to play within it rather than reframing it. When i am interacting with clerks, store owners, etc, i may be a customer but a lot of the time i end up knowing the same or more about the product than them, cuz i buy it all the time. You can get into a conversation with them, show your knowledge, and youll get interest. Even if they perceive you as a customer.

Quick example, i drink a ton of monster and travel a lot so i know various market nuances of where they sell purple monster and where they dont. I was talking with a store manager about monster and we got into the purple monster topic and then shes like "i like your hat!"

 

[Gladiator]

Gladiator, i love how youre open to troubleshooting! this mindset gives you the opportunity to improve fast

the way i see it, you could stand to add more elicitation. The purpose is twofold:

1. understand her and what drives her so you can stay calibrated and move the seduction forward
2. increase your strategic flexibility so when things are not working, you can try something different

Example:


Here I see you have asked a question, then labeled her as something she doesn't really agree with. this is an instance where you would have benefited from more elicitation.

Continuing with this direction looks like going deeper and deeper into finding the motivations of this controlling behavior. What is it about controlling people that does it for her? Maybe she desires to be seen as smart and competent in other peoples eyes...or a lack of control over herself and her environment scares her...

Whatever it may be, you are learning some pretty key info about her...info that you can use to properly frame her, stimulate her and pre-emptively handle future resistance

Glow noted in his elicitation post, that stimulation is the 2nd step after elicitation. Keep in mind that you can follow a pattern of elicitation-stimulation-elicitation to keep things flowing, rather than looking at it like elicitation THEN stimulation. Here's some ideas to stimulate on the social topic of control:

• explore the different types of control [parental, friend, business]
• how it feels to lose control [rollercoasters, drinking]
• too much control vs too little control
• contrast frame against people with bad controlling traits

If everything's going well, you should find youre well calibrated to her social frame and she will also be stimulated. when a girl is stimulated, it's a good opportunity to transition into sexual verbals. In general it is easy to take any feeling/emotion/experience, verbalize it from an interesting social perspective, then move over to the sexual side of it. I call this social-sexual. example, going from social control to sexual control. Here's some ideas for sexual control topics:

• the impact of control on sexual expression
• the deep pleasure of trusting someone else to be in control

Can you see how this would lead to a different calibrated outcome as opposed to labeling her as a dominant stalker?

Nice.

It's a great analysis of what is missing in my framework. This is the second time you mentioned elicitation and someone else in the last couple of posts highlighted that I was talking a lot as well. This is definitely something I have to adopt in my game.

I've been trying to identify gaps in my game and one thing that striked to me is, comfort. There is an overarching weakness in terms of comfort throughout my game.

I pump up a lot of attraction and sometimes it even scares away the girl. I tend to come across too cocky, teasing a lot etc and I need to cut it down and move to seductive frame sooner rather than later, once she's hooked. Although it'd be icing on the cake to throw in a few attraction spikes, there is no need to keep teasing endlessly. I was thinking how can I fix this?

From old school game, the term comfort is used very loosely. One example is, comfort is a feeling she feels that she knows you enough to have sex with you but I've realized that it is not enough. She has to feel like she was the one who discovered me, instead of me telling her everything. So Elicitation is going to be very powerful in achieving it. Feels like finding a missing piece in the puzzle.

Although I do few things to elicit a reaction, its unconscious. Now, bringing it to the conscious forefront would help in actively cementing the bond between us.

I've dabbled with different techniques from different schools of seduction and it has all messed up in how I do things. I was far better when I actually knew nothing tbh. After I've joined this forum, I'm trying to unlearn a lot of things with a lot of emphasis on being genuinely curious. Elicitation will be a good tool in achieving that.

BTW, You're right, Strategic-flexibility goes hand in hand with elicitation. You define a frame > elicit her values > steer her into that frame with Strategic-flexibility > rinse-repeat. Cool-as!

Also:

You accepted the frame and continued to play within it rather than reframing it. When i am interacting with clerks, store owners, etc, i may be a customer but a lot of the time i end up knowing the same or more about the product than them, cuz i buy it all the time. You can get into a conversation with them, show your knowledge, and youll get interest. Even if they perceive you as a customer.

Quick example, i drink a ton of monster and travel a lot so i know various market nuances of where they sell purple monster and where they dont. I was talking with a store manager about monster and we got into the purple monster topic and then shes like "i like your hat!"

I think that's clever.

If I understand you correctly, all you're saying is just side-step her frame and reframe it to something completely different?

For ex: I could've sidestepped her frame of her saying she doesn't know me, by saying "Anna and I were just talking about stalking. I was just kidding...". That way, I dismissed her frame and also would help in furthering my frame by pulling her into it. Would that be a good example of a reframe?

Thanks @fog for taking the time to provide feedback. Really appreciate it bro.

Cheers
Gladiator