Trying to reconcile not presenting as boyfriend material vs. my goal

[Dough]

I've got a fairly byronic personality so I've never really struggled with getting women to chase me, but what I have struggled with is meeting women that I want as a girlfriend. This is my actual goal. What gets my dick hard isn't wet puss, it's a woman who bears her soul to me. Google is the provider of solutions to any goal, and so I ended up here.

There is so much amazing material here! This site has explained why so many of my own behaviors have worked without me understanding, and helped me shore up my fundamentals in every category. But there's one thing that I'm really struggling to integrate into my understanding.

My struggle is with the idea that presenting yourself as boyfriend material torpedoes your chances of actually turning the girl into your girlfriend. My understanding of the way this interaction should go based on what I've read here is this: The faster I get a girl into bed, the faster all her walls go down and she becomes willing to do everything that I want a girlfriend to do. So in the interest of this, I should present as a lover beforehand to get through all her barriers that she would set up for potential boyfriends, then afterwards reveal "oh hey I am actually interested in a relationship" when she pushes for one.

So I understand how this dynamic works, but my problem is that I'm only interested in women who believe sex is for bonding with a life partner. So I feel like following the narrative that GC is recommending here will screw me with the girls that I'm genuinely attracted to, because I'll strike myself out by tripping her anti-manslut screening trigger.

So this brings me to what I want advice on: How do I work the (clearly correct) narrative that I need to bed a girl as quickly as possible together with my actual tastes in conservative women? How do I reconcile this conflict into my seduction style?

 

[ulrich]

I used to have the same conflict, it comes from taking things too literally.
You have to take all you learn here, apply it to a T and then once you have experienced it, start to make small adjustments to tweak it to your actual needs (what you want and the kind of girls you meet).

One of the core tenets, for example, “move faster” will have you trying to get sex on all you first dates and while it is surprising how often you can get it, it is not always the right call. It can have you lose some conservative girls that would make amazing girlfriends have you waited one or two dates more.

So really, once you are advanced, calibration has to become the pillar of your seductions.

I would say present yourself as a lover first without taking the boyfriend from the picture.
Don’t disqualify yourself but leave the option implicitly open.

Keep in mind that this is advice specific for yourself, guys that are looking for more “fun” kind of girls should stick to basics.
Here we are tweaking to your specific kind of girl.

 

[Dough]

I would say present yourself as a lover first without taking the boyfriend from the picture.

I figure that if I notice a girl is slowing things down to try and get me to invest prematurely and fall into the provider zone, I can just remind her that if we don't keep doing our best to get to know eachother then we'll drift apart. I think this is great way to deal with my particular situation for a multitude of reasons, but I never see direct "I'm not putting up with your BS" game like this discussed on GC. Why is it never discussed?

 

[ulrich]

It is discussed but most articles deal with a more common problem: guys falling willingly and unwillingly into the friendzone.

So, it’s easy to conclude that you have to be the total opposite and never be the boyfriend.
But the truth is that there is balance and that is personal for you.

Girlschase is like that, you will find 20 articles about moving faster for every article about how not to move too fast.
It’s not that it is wrong, it’s that they are helping guys fix the most common issues first.

 

[mist]

So I understand how this dynamic works, but my problem is that I'm only interested in women who believe sex is for bonding with a life partner. So I feel like following the narrative that GC is recommending here will screw me with the girls that I'm genuinely attracted to, because I'll strike myself out by tripping her anti-manslut screening trigger.

Hi Dough!

It also sounds like you are having some madonna whore, no true scotsman fucks fast.

You aren't going to get openess and great sex without letting the mentality and frame that girls who sleep with you quickly don't believe they are bonding with a potential life partner or open to it. (Great writing by the way man! very clear.)

Conservative women fuck too. Not always for bonding either. At certain stages and depending on factors like her friends, fertility, ex's, family, geopolitical location, work, age etc a woman might be more or less conservative with her choices. A woman conservative in the office might liberal up in Vegas ( or for you once alone )

If this is true that you distinguish women based off how they view and value sex you might be in for a rude awakening. Most peoples beliefs are not really set in stone. They only show up when pressed for position and will use references from their life rather than evidence from science for example.

Look into things regarding sexual liberation. There's some really good articles on female sex mentality and a recent one about how your opinion of women betray your results. Also you really want a life partner so look into the longterm relationship articles on here.

Hope you find what works for you and the game that caters to your needs and relationships. Peace

 

[Dough]

Most peoples beliefs are not really set in stone. They only show up when pressed for position and will use references from their life rather than evidence from science for example.

So most women don't actually have an overall narrative that guides how they approach sex, it's just that they back-rationalize their history with nonexistent reasons if asked.

But then on the upside this means that she will follow whatever narrative about sex that I set the frame for because she likely doesn't even have one in the first place. And this dynamic gives me quite a bit of relationship management power unto itself. So overall it's less about how she is and more about how I set expectations for how she should be. This is my understanding of your point, is it correct?


Regarding the madonna-whore thing, I read about how each partner a girl has had increases her infidelity risk by 7%. I didn't believe that it was having the partner that was the issue; the conclusion that I came to is that it's her mindset towards sex is the issue, and that I should be screening against sexual openness. Because even a virgin who's eager to sample a bunch of different high-class cocks but hasn't met any quite yet is a high infidelity risk.

Note though that I don't equate having sex with me quickly to having high sexual openness, so I don't think it's a madonna-whore thing? I sort girls into high risk vs low risk, and where I feel her risk level is at is totally irrelevant of how quickly I can bed her.

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

The post seems way too theoretical to really answer.

But sexually conservative girls, once you "light the fire" will give you their soul instead of their body.

Whether you want to bang now, or bang 6 months from now, the girl has to have some sort of "deep interest" in wanting to be with you, and wanting to please you.

Her having that deep interest is the reaction to 2 things - your deep inherent value and your deep value TO HER.

Rich guy, muscle guy, billionaire, powerful politician - inherent/objective value

The dude that taps into her feelings, and basically uses touch and the tone of his voice to cause dopamine reactions in her brain - has deep subjective value.

This has not changed since we crawled out of the primordial ooze.

To really get the most out of this stuff - you have to learn how to strike those chords of passion in a chick that aren't romantic, sexual, etc. The subjective value.

Keep in mind, a lot of guys get laid from spirituality - be it Yogis or Pastors. A lot of them use "sex is bonding" frame as well. And that's because they're tapping into that deep reservoir of her feelings.

It's why Rock Star Sex Life is thought of as greater than Porn Producer/Hugh Hefner Sex Life.

Now given how most women think that their sex is their most valuable asset, you can get a lot more from her other than sex - if you strike that emotional chord within her.

So your job is to figure out what exactly you want from these chicks, and then gift them with sex later on.

You can screen for that type of thing on a first date.
Or you can make her want those things, because she's so into you. (99% of girl dj's became dj's because of dj boyfriends)

WIA

 

[Dough]

To really get the most out of this stuff - you have to learn how to strike those chords of passion in a chick that aren't romantic, sexual, etc.

Do you know where to start reading about this? I don't think I've seen anything like that on GC. Everything that I've seen on how to get a girl wanting to release herself to you - touch, mental domination, relationship management, other forms of game like that - is still within a romantic context.

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

Do you know where to start reading about this? I don't think I've seen anything like that on GC. Everything that I've seen on how to get a girl fired up - touch, mental domination, other forms of game like that - is still within a romantic context.

GC talks about it all the time, just not the way I presented it.

In terms of how to get better at this

Fields like these are about creating the theater in the mind at the conceptual level

• Writing poetry
• Writing screenplays
• Writing plays
• Directing
• Comedy

Fields like these are about putting those concepts into action.

• Making and performing music
• Acting
• Improv acting
• Improv comedy
• Dancing

In pickup, we often talk about the conversational vacuum. It's a tactic you will often pull out at the beginning of interaction when you're going from casual chit chat to something deeper.

When you ask her a question, a tough one, you keep the tension high with the expectation that she's going to answer it, by shutting up. When you do not say a word, social pressure typically forces her to answer.

That's common intermediate pick up.

But you can bolster that tension with facial expressions.

• A look of disbelief will make her defensive.
• A look of deep belief, will encourage her to say more.
• A look of confusion will make the clarify without you having to ask her to.

Pick Up is not going to teach you that directly, but acting will. Reading scripts will. Understanding direction, telling a visual story, will help you with your pick up, because you're really monkeying with how people make meaning of the world.

And this is just one direction to go in.

• Teaching
• Sales, Marketing, Copywriting, Advertising
• Coaching
• Group Leadership
• Religion
• Cults
• Journalism
• Therapy and Counseling
• Dog Training is a classic one

There are lots of different ways to accomplish this goal. People are complex, and our societies are essentially run on people believing in these various things. Everything is getting done in this world, because someone else put an idea in someone else's head.

I do not want to turn you into an artist (well except a pick up artist) - but these are well developed ways (trillion dollar industries) to tap into people's inner world and get them to be deeply invested.

Because you are ultimately going to hook every girl, not just the socially/sexually conservative girls, with your words, your silences, the eyes, the tone, setting the mood, creating the scenarios, touch etc.

Everything matters, all the pieces count.

Girls Chase, and PUA in general - has a lot of front ended loaded stuff to pull chicks into bed - and turns out, girls like sex, so the bar is not nearly as high as we think it is.

But that's not good enough for you, lol. You want something more than that, lol.

You want to screen for a particular type of girl, and reel her in. But the reward for her won't be sex, but something more sublime.

To get these type of chicks, practically, you're going to have to build some sort of social funnel to bring all types of girls into your life, and a method to either convert or screen.

That said you need to start really thinking about this stuff, because it's not all written down in one place to be consumed like Harry Potter or Game of Thrones. No one is going to spoon feed it to you.

Ask yourself

• How am I going to meet all these girls?
• What are they looking for?
• What do they respond to?
• Where are they coming from?
• What are they going to be into?
• How do I draw out their passions?
• If she gives you want you want, how do you reward her?
• When do you chastise her?
• What will I do if she shows herself, and you don't like it?
• etc

Doing what you want to do is not just tweaking a few questions in the standard pick up stack, but truly understanding what you're trying to accomplish.

WIA

 

[Dough]

Oh yeah I totally understand what you're talking about. Putting it out like that is super helpful, to have a bunch of disparate thoughts and subconscious understandings being brought together into one coherent perspective. Thanks for your time, it sounds like you know exactly what I'm going for lmao!

 

[mist]

So most women don't actually have an overall narrative that guides how they approach sex, it's just that they back-rationalize their history with nonexistent reasons if asked.

But then on the upside this means that she will follow whatever narrative about sex that I set the frame for because she likely doesn't even have one in the first place. And this dynamic gives me quite a bit of relationship management power unto itself. So overall it's less about how she is and more about how I set expectations for how she should be. This is my understanding of your point, is it correct?

Very interesting reading of what I said. I appreciate the reply Dough. Very eye opening.

I'm not too experienced quite honestly. Not really sure if this reading accurately represents what I said. It could be pushing my statement to its extreme, maybe it is showing me underlying assumptions I haven't thought of. I'm not sure. I have a couple questions about this belief from myself as well. One would be is my age a reason I believe this? I deal with a lot of younger women due to my age ( I'll get my milf one day haha). I meet many women in a formative stage so my worldview on frame is that most peoples is generally weak. But my references are younger people. I speak to many older people as well though and their frames on average seem to be stronger ( not necessarily super strong, but definitely not as weak as the formative years or midlife crisis).

That's just a bit about where I was coming from.

At this point West Indian Archie has really broken your question down and gave you great feedback so I'm not sure what you can do with what I was saying since it's not developed like I'd like it ( needs more reference points rather than philosophy. Practicality>Philosophy y'know). If you find some use in it though, that's wassup.

Overall thanks for this nice thread! It's been very insightful. Peace

- Mist