FR Two Friends

[AsianPersuasion]

I went to the mall today to return a pair of jeans, and decided to talk to a few girls on the way.

Veronica: She was walking along with two friends and when my wingman and I passed by, I smiled at her, and she giggled, so I turned around and decided to open.

Me: "Hey, I saw you and thought you were cute! I wanted to come say hi before I lost the chance. I'm AP!"
Her: "Oh, hi! Haha, I'm Veronica!" (I shake hands and hold)
Me: "So anyway, I can tell pretty much right off the bat when I think a girl is attractive... What I can't tell is if we'll click. Can you tell me something interesting about you?"
WingMan: "Hey man, what'd I miss?"
Me: "This is my friend Roman! Roman, this is.... What's my name?"
Her: "Um.... AP right?"
Me: "Damn it! Haha, I was hoping you would have forgotten and we'd be even"
Her: "Oh that's okay! I'm Veronica!"
Me: "Now I owe you something... Do you want to come grab caribou with us?"
Her: "Haha, no that's okay... I'm good."
Me: "Alright, that's cool. What are you guys up to then?"
Friend: "We're actually about to go into Barnes & Nobles for some sort of drink I think. We'll leave you two alone though! *laughs*"
Her: "Haha, no! I want to come with!"
WingMan: "Can we come with?"
Her: "Um... Sure! Haha!"
Me: "Cool." (We begin walking) "So you never got to tell me something interesting about you."
Her: "Let's see... I draw... I (bunch of other stuff I don't remember)"
Me: "You're an artist? Awesome! What do you draw?"
Her: "Um... Some anime... A lot of characters from Adventure Time!"
WingMan: "YES! I LOVE Adventure Time! What time is it?"
Her: "Adventure Time! Hahaha!"
WingMan: "What Animes do you watch?"
Her: "A lot of girly animes..."
Me: "My cousin showed me a really girly one... I think it was called orange high school something.... It was about this lesbian girl that dressed like a guy and got dragged into this host club.."
Her: "I think I know what you're talking about! That one's actually one of my favorites!"
WingMan: "Do you watch Naruto?"
Her: "Um... No. I need to start though!"
WingMan: "Do you watch Shippuden?"
Her: "No... Haha!"
Me: "Do you take pictures of your work?"
Her: "Um yeah, I actually have them on my phone!"
Me: "May I see?"
Her: "Sure!" (Shows me her pictures) "That's one from my Anime side"
Me: "This is awesome! Are those vampire teeth marks?"
Her: "Yes!"
Me: "Do you have more? Can I scroll?"
Her: "Um, don't scroll. I have more!"
Me: "Sure! Is it that you have a lot of dirty pictures, or why can't I scroll?"
Her: "Haha, no! I have a lot of random pictures of my cat! I'm kind of obsessed."
WingMan: "Yeah, because that's so uncommon."
Me: "This one's really nice too... I love how you contrasted the colors like that! I was big into anime a long time ago in middle school. I used to spend whole nights just drawing... I stopped at some point and got into psychedelic art and now I haven't drawn a whole lot in a good while. I never kept any of it though, otherwise I'd show you."
Her: "Oh! ..Why not?"
Me: "I believe in art for the moment. What I love is making art, not keeping it. My friends always asked me to draw things, and I'd do it and give it to them.. Anything I ever did keep just got lost!"
Her: "Oh, I see! Cool!"
Me: "You seem like a really cool person. You and I should text sometime!"
Her: "I have a boyfriend, sorry!"
Me: "That's cool. We can just be friends then."
Her: "Can you look me up on facebook?"
Me: "Sure! ...Damn it, I'm so bad with names!"
Her: "That's okay! Look me up as (gives me facebook name)"
Me: "Oh okay!"
Her: "I know that's a bit weird.. Haha!"
Me: "Hey, a little creativity never hurt anyone."
WingMan: (To me under his breath) "We've just wasted seven minutes."
Me: "It's never a waste of time. She's cool!" *back to her* "The five of us should hang out in the mall!"
Her: "Actually, we're just about to leave."
Me: "Okay, well, it was really nice meeting you!"
Her: "Yeah, you too!"

Looking back at this, there were so many times I could have deep dived but lost the opportunity. With a wingman interjecting so often, I lose a lot of opportunities... On the plus side, the girls are warmer and more receptive due to the social proof.

On a side note, the whole interaction was done in front of the girl who worked at Starbucks who was miffed at me for hitting on both her and her friend on two different days... I tried to avoid eye contact with her, but I think she saw me. The security at the place I was kicked out of probably told her about me, and there's a good chance she might have reported me. I saw a guy from mall security pretty much follow my wingman and me around, and he stopped once facing us on the other side of a stairwell. I think he took our physical descriptions.

Sarah: As we made a getaway into JC Penney's, I bought a pair of Arizona jeans with the money I got from returning the Levi's to Sears. After paying, we went back intending to find more girls in the mall, but I saw a gorgeous blonde shoe shopping with her mom. My friend did his regular fake texting thing, and I went to open.

Me: (Whispering) "Hey, I saw you standing there and had to come tell you I thought you looked amazing! I'm AP!"
Her: "Oh, haha! I'm Sarah!"
Me: "So what are you doing here? Just shoe shopping?"
Mom: "Yeah, we're getting ready for a wedding party!"
Me: "Oh awesome! Not yours I hope?"
Her: "No, haha! Not yet!"
Me: "Good because I was prepared to go cry in the corner and eat a tub of ice cream."
Her: "Haha!"
Me: "How old are you?"
Her: "Fifteen. How old are you?"
Me: "Ooh.... Seventeen!"
WingMan: "Hey bro! What'd I miss!"
Me: "This is my friend Roman!"
Her: "Hi Roman!"
Me: "So anyway, obviously I went over because I thought you were really attractive... What I can't tell right off the bat is if our personalities match... Can you tell me something interesting about you?"
Her: "Um... my favorite color is purple... I'm not interested in dating anyone at the moment..."
Me: "So you'd probably friend zone me?"
Her: "Yep! Sorry!"
Me: "You're fine! I'm cool being just friends as long as you're cool about me still finding you attractive."
Her: "Okay, sure!"
Me: "What's your number?"
Her: "(Gives me number) That's a really cool necklace."
Me: "Thank you! I got this at Gordmans. I love odd numbers."
WingMan: "He is an odd number."
Her: "Hahaha!"
Me: "You've got really interesting earrings." (I play with her earrings a bit)
Her: "Thank you!"
Me: "Are you into sports? Music?"
Her: "I'm definitely into sports.. I've done (names a bunch of sports)"
Me: "Wow, you've been all over the place!"
Her: "I have! Are you planning on going to college?"
Me: "Um yeah. I haven't decided on which one though. Have you decided what college and major?"
Her: "Um.. I don't know... I'm not from around here. I'm from Somerset!"
Me: "That's in Wisconsin right?"
Her: "Yep!"
Me: "Are all the girls in Somerset this pretty? Because I will move there." *both the mom and the daughter laugh*
WingMan: "Yeah, and take me with you! *to me under breath* How much time do we have left?"
Me: "Oh crap.. Sorry, we got to go. I'll... text you?"
Her: "Sounds good to me!"
Me: "Perfect. Hug goodbye?"
Her: "Sorry. Touch barrier. Stranger danger haha!"
Me: "Alright, that's cool. See ya!"

Once again, now that I look back at this, I had many deep diving opportunities that were interrupted by my wingman. Though it's nice to have him around for social proof, I think I'll bring one of my more awkward friends next time. I also sort of feel like he's trying to compete with me for the girls he wasn't willing to approach.

Things I did well:
1) I'm speaking far more calmly and slower than I originally did
2) I'm hooking far faster
3) I'm using social proof to my advantage

Things that could be done better:
1) I'm not deep diving anymore
2) I forgot to find ways to make the girl invest
3) I still need to be more chill and slow

Things I learned:
1) Wingmen are great for social proof, but make deep diving more difficult
2) I need a wingman that will let me do my work
3) Moms seem to really love me and have never given me trouble

 

[Pato]

Hey AP,

Well done today. Just out of curiosity, did you actually forget the first girl's name both times? I was pretty sure the first time was intentional, but was the second time also on purpose? If it was, was there a specific reason why?

One thing I noticed was that your wingman is too involved in the conversation with you and your girl. What I think may be better is at some point he starts talking to the other girls while you talk to Veronica (and future girls) one-on-one. This should allow you to deep dive better and he won't compete with you over your girl. I feel like having an awkward wingman may do some more harm than good, so you don't necessarily have to replace your wingman. By doing this maybe you could get the social proof plus of having a wingman, but you would avoid having your interaction with you girl suffer.

Overall nice job!

-Pato

 

[Richard]

AP, nice work man. You're outings always inspire me to get out there and meer women, that being said though! Can you check out my newest thread/ question under Tactics and Techniques? I'm sure you have some useful information for the question I'm posing
-Richard

 

[AsianPersuasion]

Thanks Pato, I actually did forget the girls' names both times! I'll remember a birthday, a person's childhood, their dreams and inspirations, and even full conversations with a person, but their name almost never registers the first time! Haha, that was the trick I learned from watching James Marshall infield that I use to counteract that weakness.

I think you're right. I might just tell him to let me talk to the girl I approach and let him choose between any other girl in the group. I might just say something like "Don't try to save me in my conversations next time. If I make a mistake, I need to feel the brunt of it to learn."

Hey Zphix! Glad to inspire you, I actually wish I was doing as well as you in my interactions! Haha, I'll check out your newest thread in Tactics and Techniques indefinitely. I always seem to pick up something really useful when I check out your stuff.... I can guarantee my progress would be a lot slower if you hadn't posted that question about approaching girls in groups, with their moms, and with their dads.

Thanks guys!

 

[Richard]

Glad we can help and support one another By the way AP, do you see any significant benefits to having a wingman vs. not having a wingman? My whole "career" Id done this solo, but now my friend Josh wants to get involved with me thus grsnting me a wingman.

 

[AsianPersuasion]

I preferred to do most of my "career" solo too. The problem is that most people at my age would never go anywhere alone, and being alone sorta makes you look like you have no choice but to be alone. (People get kinda clannish in my town.) I'll try to sort out the pros and cons I've noticed though.

Pros:
1) Having a wingman with you allows you a certain amount of social proof, though if you can get a hot wing girl, it offers you a great deal of pre-selection too... And the girl doesn't try to compete with you! I've noticed the girls become a lot more receptive lately, though I'm not sure whether it's because I had a wingman with me, or I've just improved my vibe.

2) Wingmen/Wingwomen also allow you to maintain a social state the whole time you're at a venue. You always have social momentum to build on, so talking to a random girl feels more comfortable.

3) Wingmen/Wingwomen are great for a bunch of different tactics some might find useful. I'm used to just cold approaching and telling them right off the bat what I think, so I haven't applied that.

4) They can observe what you do and let you know about any bad habits you might have that you might not have noticed otherwise... (Talking too damn fast, walking awkwardly, bad body language etc.)

Cons:
1) Inexperienced guys with more AA may approach less when they've got a wingman... After all, they're in a conversation already, so they've got the perfect excuse to be rude and not genuinely tell a girl they think she's cute.

2) Even guys who don't have a problem with AA may do less approaches if they get too locked into conversation with their wingman and miss pretty girls that walk by.

3) The wingman/wingwoman may get in your way if he interjects a lot into your conversation. He/she may just be meaning well, but this can cause missed opportunities for deep diving on a personal level if they interject with the wrong question.

4) A bad wingman will compete with you for the girl. An awkward wingwoman won't have the nerve to come up to the girl you want to talk to.

5) Unless the wingman just lets you do your thing and keeps his distance, it makes a one on one conversation nearly impossible.

6) Wingmen/Wingwomen aren't always available, so if you depend on them, you'll be out approaching far less.

Personally, I'd prefer to do this alone, but I feel as though the pre-selection and the social proof outweigh all of the drawbacks... at least for the girls I approach at my age. When I get older and it becomes more normal for a guy to be out alone, I'll do less wingman/wingwoman stuff, but until then, I'll keep one around, but ask that they let me do my thing.