What's new

(Urgent Advice Required) Going on a trip with 8 girls and a guy. But, the other guy already has all the girls competing over him.

onmyway22

Rookie
Rookie
Joined
Mar 7, 2021
Messages
7
Been a lurker here for sometime. I can't thank all of the GirlsChase team and members of this forum enough. You all have completely changed my way of thinking towards dating, seduction and life in general. And, I am finally trying to take steps to actually improve my pickup skills, dating skills, and social skills in general.


Today, I am come up to you all with a situation that I have never faced and that I couldn't find the exact solution while searching through the forum. Hopefully, you guys can give me pointers, advice, or even word-to word instructions on how to exactly handle the situation that I'm in.

Keeping it short, I am going to have to go on like an academic trip with about 8 girls and a guy. But, the thing is this guy is an absolute stud. He also has a girlfriend going with us in this trip. And, all other girls already swoon over him like crazy. I think if he tried, he could have an orgy with all these girls along with his girlfriend in this trip. So, the problem is I am going to be the biggest THIRD WHEEL in the history of mankind in this situation. I don't know what I am going to do in this trip? I am thinking that they might not even notice that I am there with them in this trip.

I did try to form connections with the girls going on this trip, but they are not very responsive and are only head over heels for this one dude. The dude has already had the girls fighting for his attention. I feel it's gonna be super awkward and uncomfortable for me on this trip. So, please give me suggestions, recommendations, advices, anything for me to save face and dignity in this trip. How should I behave, act or communicate with them?

P.S. I really can't avoid going to the trip since this is related to university credit work. The trip is going to be a 3-days long.
 

Will_V

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
2,036
If you are outclassed by this dude, make friends with him and avoid at all costs making it him vs you. Find out who he is and genuinely connect with him. The last thing you want to do is end up being the antagonistic loser in the corner for 3 days, and the worst that can happen is that you have a good time as bros while a gaggle of girls run around doing girly things.

Above all, enjoy yourself no matter what. Be nice and social even if you feel things are strange, and try to offer value in conversations and activities to everybody. Don't depend on any outcome whatsoever, or try to be the 'alpha'. The moment girls smell neediness, especially in a small group, things will go downhill fast. Treat it as a zen learning experience for your social development and your ego.

The thing with groups, especially ones that have not been together for long (or at all) and which suddenly spend time together, is that things can change very quickly. The dude might end up doing something awkward, or polarizing, or he might pass girls to you if he likes you, or girls might try to 'show' him by fucking you. Or they might suddenly be curious as to why you aren't reacting to lack of attention, or a girl might just decide she likes your relaxed vibe.

You must be able to be an elegant, unmoved spectator in the currents of social energy, offering goodwill and warmth without expectations, and smoothly working on every opportunity to better your standing with good grace and cheer. And when an opportunity comes, you will be able to make the most of it.
 

Yaxir

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Mar 3, 2021
Messages
154
If you are outclassed by this dude, make friends with him and avoid at all costs making it him vs you. Find out who he is and genuinely connect with him. The last thing you want to do is end up being the antagonistic loser in the corner for 3 days, and the worst that can happen is that you have a good time as bros while a gaggle of girls run around doing girly things.

Above all, enjoy yourself no matter what. Be nice and social even if you feel things are strange, and try to offer value in conversations and activities to everybody. Don't depend on any outcome whatsoever, or try to be the 'alpha'. The moment girls smell neediness, especially in a small group, things will go downhill fast. Treat it as a zen learning experience for your social development and your ego.

The thing with groups, especially ones that have not been together for long (or at all) and which suddenly spend time together, is that things can change very quickly. The dude might end up doing something awkward, or polarizing, or he might pass girls to you if he likes you, or girls might try to 'show' him by fucking you. Or they might suddenly be curious as to why you aren't reacting to lack of attention, or a girl might just decide she likes your relaxed vibe.

You must be able to be an elegant, unmoved spectator in the currents of social energy, offering goodwill and warmth without expectations, and smoothly working on every opportunity to better your standing with good grace and cheer. And when an opportunity comes, you will be able to make the most of it.
that's great advice

after reading this, now i want to go on that trip too :p
 
Last edited:

foggy

Modern Human
Modern Human
Joined
Jul 20, 2015
Messages
1,532
adding on to what will_v is saying

there will be a hierarchy among the guys, the girls, and the group as a whole. sounds like among the guys, he will generally be first in command, while you will be second. with the girls, there will be a hierchary all the way down to 8th place....

what if he makes a mistake over the course of the weekend with one or some of the girls, and they go into auto rejection? because you're around, and you're second in command, this will open up an opportunity for you...

what if the girl in 8th place is feeling like you? "all my friends are going after that guy...idk if i stand a chance...." because you're second in command, you're the next best option!

id say be low key all weekend, be friendly and make friends with the girls, don't try to status jockey too much with the other guy, but establish respect with him. keep a keen eye on the sexual dynamics between the guy and the girls. if any of it goes south, and you have alright fundamentals, you might find yourself with more girl attention than youre anticipating....
 

Zoro

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Messages
1,124
This is probably relevant.


Instead of playing second best, make your own class.
 

James D

Modern Human
Modern Human
Joined
Jul 23, 2017
Messages
632
I was in an exact same situation.

Academic trip, with this one guy all girls were swooning over and I've had the same worries as you.

I'll give you the advice I would give my youger self:

You're viewing it as a life-death situation from what I can tell. Your description of the other guy reveals that you've overthinked way too much when it comes to him and his abilities to get girls.

First, take a step back and view the bigger picture. You don't NEED to land those girls. Even if he fucks all of them, it does not mean you're trash. 8 girls and two guys can be hard if the guy legitmitately cooler than you. He probably is a bit (or a lot) more attractive than you. Ok, does not mean you're inferior but recognizing it does not hurt either.

Now, consider those points:

--> Watch out for frame control attempts from the guy. Don't let him dominate you. Don't let him tell you what you can or cannot do. If he assumes a sort of leadership position during the trip, watch out for frame battles. Don't let him touch you, grab you, or joke about you. Don't be ultra sensitive. Just be calm and counter frame control attacks.

--> If he's a really cool guy, he won't tool you and instead will build up your value. Very cool guys will do that. And yes, girls will tend to be into them hardcore. But that's ok, I'll explain further, keep reading.

--> In any case, your role should be to add value to the group. Always. Whenever you get distracted or feel insecure because no one is paying attention to you, focus entirely on how can you add value in a cool, law of least effort way.

--> Adding value does many thigns for you. It makes you look good and makes you cooler. Moreover, it's a great way to win over the other guy if he slips up. If you add more value than him, you're cooler.

--> Have a detached demeanor. Be more of a sigma male but still warm and friendly.

--> Sexualize your non verbals. Sexiness is key. Read the article on how to turn girls on. The first part about excitement. Smile sexy, eye contact sexy, sexy voice. These should be part of you.

--> And finally, yes you CAN land one or more of those girls, EVEN if all of them are fawning over the dude right now. To fuck a girl, she needs to find you at least somewhat attractive, you need to isolate her, turn her on (conversation with seductive vibe, touch) and when you feel she's into you, you kiss her and undress her. That guy is probbaly not gonna fuck all those girls in 3 days, trust me. And he has a girlfriend. Unless he's a real Casanova, he's probaly gonna be boning his girl only. In any case, you've got 5-6 girls you can pick and isolate, seduce and make moves on.

--> And finally, do not go with the mindset to get laid. You don't have to get every girl. That's a beginner mindset. Relax, think in terms of abundance. Remember, the proof is in the pussy, as Hector says in his book. The girls might lavish attention on him, fawn on him but in the end, she's attracted to the man who fucks her. From a primal perspective, that guy's the most powerful. And since he has a gf, he probably won't be making the moves on all the girls. Which gives YOU room to mate with one or more of them.

--> Relax, have fun, don't overthink
 

Fuck This

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Jul 24, 2015
Messages
2,091
Your best chance to land one of the girls is by befriending the guy. It becomes a "mutual admiration society" and he becomes your social proof.

As a Youngster (Secondary school summer) my buddy was the chick magnet , but I knew the sport we were doing better than he. I helped him with the activity, without making him look like the lesser man thus he was complimentary to me. When it was the last night of the weeklong trip he bedded the hottest girl in the group and I took down her best friend. Classic wingman stuff...
 
you miss 100% of the shots you don't take

Mr. Hawaii

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
39
Yep, like everyone is saying, friend the guy. Its just the two of you so if you guys are getting along, his coolness will brush off straight to you. you might need to watch out for girls trying to put you down to impress the guy or whatever. just gotta have some calm reflexes and wit if anyone crosses the line, but DONT GET DEFENSIVE. you might bring a deck of cards or something and play speed with a girl you're interested in
 

POB

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
1,354
1) play to your strengths. Think about what you are good at and (without forcing anything) try to make it a fun social experience for everyone (cards, a game of dare, music, any sport, etc).
2) ask the dude how you could make things more fun for you two. Eventually he is gonna get tired of chicks dancing around him non-stop. Just get to him and say some remark like: "If the girls keep stalling inside the bathroom, we should bail on their asses and go for a beer".
3) If you can get another group to chat with you, go for it! I mean any group, of any configuration or age! Social proof is king in those scenarios and eventually ppl will start to see you as a cool social dude. Chat with the driver, the cashier, everyone. Just don't bail on your original group. If you can mix other groups with the original, better yet!
 

onmyway22

Rookie
Rookie
Joined
Mar 7, 2021
Messages
7
In any case, your role should be to add value to the group. Always. Whenever you get distracted or feel insecure because no one is paying attention to you, focus entirely on how can you add value in a cool, law of least effort way.
Thanks for all the great point-wise insights and advice from your own experience. I have always struggled with the concept of "value" and ways to provide it. What kind of value should I be targeting for during the whole trip? I'm kind of a knuckle-head and can implement things only when broken down into absolutely actionable steps. Could you please provide me some instructions/examples of how I should provide "Value" in different situations during the trip? How could I match the value provided by the other guy as the girls would already value his "value" more than mine?
 

onmyway22

Rookie
Rookie
Joined
Mar 7, 2021
Messages
7
If you are outclassed by this dude, make friends with him and avoid at all costs making it him vs you. Find out who he is and genuinely connect with him. The last thing you want to do is end up being the antagonistic loser in the corner for 3 days, and the worst that can happen is that you have a good time as bros while a gaggle of girls run around doing girly things.

Above all, enjoy yourself no matter what. Be nice and social even if you feel things are strange, and try to offer value in conversations and activities to everybody. Don't depend on any outcome whatsoever, or try to be the 'alpha'. The moment girls smell neediness, especially in a small group, things will go downhill fast. Treat it as a zen learning experience for your social development and your ego.

The thing with groups, especially ones that have not been together for long (or at all) and which suddenly spend time together, is that things can change very quickly. The dude might end up doing something awkward, or polarizing, or he might pass girls to you if he likes you, or girls might try to 'show' him by fucking you. Or they might suddenly be curious as to why you aren't reacting to lack of attention, or a girl might just decide she likes your relaxed vibe.

You must be able to be an elegant, unmoved spectator in the currents of social energy, offering goodwill and warmth without expectations, and smoothly working on every opportunity to better your standing with good grace and cheer. And when an opportunity comes, you will be able to make the most of it.
Thanks for showing me the mindset and goals that I should go with in this trip (and sorry for the late reply). Like you and others have advised, I did try to befriend the guy before the trip, but he is kind of a dick and arrogant (maybe because of his social proof and pre-selection in the group). Moreover, he is a little egotistical and likes to dominate/boss other guys in front of the girls. So, I might have to handle constant frame battles, back-handed compliments, etc. during this trip.

How do you think should I handle those type of situations? Do I follow his commands/leadership as to not seem competing with him or challenge/ question his decisions on certain things that I might disagree with?
 

onmyway22

Rookie
Rookie
Joined
Mar 7, 2021
Messages
7
Yep, like everyone is saying, friend the guy. Its just the two of you so if you guys are getting along, his coolness will brush off straight to you. you might need to watch out for girls trying to put you down to impress the guy or whatever. just gotta have some calm reflexes and wit if anyone crosses the line, but DONT GET DEFENSIVE. you might bring a deck of cards or something and play speed with a girl you're interested in
Thanks for your insight, especially the "girls trying to put you down to impress the guy" part. As you and others have said, I did try to befriend the guy before the trip, but he is kind of a dick and arrogant (maybe because of his social proof and pre-selection in the group). And, the girls are swooning over the guy like I wrote earlier, and not very responsive towards me. So as you said, how do I not get defensive when they might try to align together and try to tool me, as they might seem as an outsider to them?
 

Mr. Hawaii

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
39
thats tough. if it gets to tooling, the second you appear weak, you're done. So you need to address it in the moment.

one thing you can do is try to stay "in" on the jokes, like if a joke gets aimed towards you, do your absolute best to not get defensive but instead keep the energy up and pass a joke back. Have fun with it. Sometimes when we think we're inferior, we mistake 'clowning around' for 'bullying'. So try to keep the frame that you guys are clowning around, and you're not getting bullied. You do this like i said, by passing some heat back. If you say something that makes everyone laugh, you will not be as easy as a target.

If it does go into bullying, still don't get defensive, and don't get hurt. (It's okay if it hurts inside but DONT SHOW IT). call them out by saying something like "wow i guess everyone is picking on me today." But said in a way like you're talking to your friends not said like you're talking to a bully or something. Your attitude when responding is very important.

Honestly your attitude and frame will kind of decide if it's friendly or bullying. The cliche to use here is "dont take it personal"

obviously if someone is really disrespectful and crosses a line you need to put your foot down, but try not to be too sensitive or take every slight as an attack, try to assume you guys are all friends and on friendly terms until the line is crossed, and dont show any expectation to getting bullied. if it does get to bullying, act surprised. Like dont default to protecting yourself or shutting down.

Let's say he says something that isn't funny and is pure bullying, something fucked up. at that point, dont be laughing or kidding around, act surprised, like "Whoa wtf? calm down mr aggressive" or "Wow cool guy, can u stop being a bully" try to keep the attention on the person that said the fucked up thing.

The best thing you can do is catch the bullying while it's still playful, because it probably will escalate if anything, not just be outright bullying.
If someone says something that is beyond horsing around, call them out (while still positive energy) "Whoa don't start bullying me, now lol"

the key is to not act like someone that gets bullied.

hope this helps
 

James D

Modern Human
Modern Human
Joined
Jul 23, 2017
Messages
632
Thanks for all the great point-wise insights and advice from your own experience. I have always struggled with the concept of "value" and ways to provide it. What kind of value should I be targeting for during the whole trip? I'm kind of a knuckle-head and can implement things only when broken down into absolutely actionable steps. Could you please provide me some instructions/examples of how I should provide "Value" in different situations during the trip? How could I match the value provided by the other guy as the girls would already value his "value" more than mine?
Yes, value's a hard one to get down.

It's pretty nuanced.

Unfortunately I don't have super actionable steps as there are myriad ways to provide value and everything varies with the context.

I'll try my best to explain, though.

Did you read Chase's article on how to be cool? This 4 part formula is an absolute revelation. Almost no one hits all of them and when someone does, it's beautiful to behold.

In this article, under the "Always provide value" part (and btw you can get a few examples there), he states:

  • The uncool person is very focused on his status within the group
  • The cool person is almost entirely focused on what he brings to the group
This is to answer your question about how to match the value provided by the guy because the girls already value his value more than yours.

Don't focus on your status within the group or at least don't be overly worried about it.

Place all your attention only on providing value.

Intention is key here. You're not providing value to be better than the guy.

You're proving value to provide value.

Your value overshining the other guy is only a side effect of your value providing, not the main driver.

You're adding value to the group because you genuinely care about the group.

Intention goes a long way, trust me. I know it sounds cliche but it's not.

It's massive and it's far from being as simple as telling yourself that you want to add value to the group.

You gotta find that genuine desire to provide value and make the group better off.

So, intention is one. Take some time to really focus that.

Now, as to concrete examples of providing value. Again, it's pretty nuanced. I'm sure you've heard the "make jokes", which does not really help.

I won't tell you to be the life of the party as well (although, if you can, you should) since the other guy seems to be filling that gap.

Instead, I'll give you one motif.

Everything you say and do, if it stems from that motif, will come across as providing value.

Here goes:

I want to make people around me FEEL good.

(Quoting Chase here again, I'm not sure which article, it was about social skills)

Vibes.

Postive vibes.

In any interaction, genuinely strive to make the other person feel good.

Perhaps through a smile. Genuine, covid-infectious like smile.

Great conversation focussed on the other person.

Jokes, with the right timing and without coming across as try hard.

Study the environment and ask yourself how you can better the experience of those surrounding you. They are part of your tribe, they are your people. Someone is struggling with her suitcase (I'm assuming since it's gonna be a trip)? Go help her. Don't worry about being too much of a nice guy. You're not doing it to sleep with her. You're doing it because you're genuinely helping.

Someone seems a bit left out or worried? Approach her, give a little nudge, a smile and ask her if everything's alright, with a genuine concern. Offer some advice and then move on.

Have some snacks or some good food in your backpack and share it when they least expect it. Act like it's no big deal as this is just what you do. Be nochalant about it.

You're not expecting any outcome.

You're adding value to add value.

You're adding value because you genuinely care.

Notice the few examples I gave you. They all stem from the motif of making others feel good, in a genuine way.

Internalize this and you will be adding value anywhere, instantly. Mind the law of least effort, as always.

And you might be thinking that everything I'm asking you to do involves you doing things for others without expecting anything in return. Pure selfless acts, in other words. Why bother doing it at all if it's only to benefit the others, not you?

Well, there is actually one selfish motive behind selfessly providing value, and this is it: Helping others have a good time ensures YOU have a great time, especially if those positive vibes are being generated by you. You'll have the time of your life.

You might outshine the guy, one of the girls might drop on her knees to suck your dick because you're that awesome. All of that's cool, but that's just a byproduct of your value adding. A consequence, not the main motive. Never the main motive. Your value adding cannot be grounded in whether you'll appear cooler than that dude or that girl will like you. No, your value adding is grounded in something much bigger, much nobler.

Your value adding is something you do because you genuinely care.

Sure, actively work to fuck the girls (sexiness, isolation, etc)

Also actively work to add value.

I could not provide top actionable steps but I tried to explain to you what I had to figure out for myself not so long ago. I too had issues with value and whenever I asked a question about it, everyone would simply answer "It just means you have to add value"

Left me frustrated for a while.

Until I got in the moment, became present, alligned my intention and ensured everything is grounded in my main motif. Do all that, keep an eye for frame control attacks (and nastily defend yourself if need be), be sexy and aim to isolate and escalate with girls.

You got this man.
 

Yaxir

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Mar 3, 2021
Messages
154
Yes, value's a hard one to get down.

It's pretty nuanced.

Unfortunately I don't have super actionable steps as there are myriad ways to provide value and everything varies with the context.

I'll try my best to explain, though.

Did you read Chase's article on how to be cool? This 4 part formula is an absolute revelation. Almost no one hits all of them and when someone does, it's beautiful to behold.

In this article, under the "Always provide value" part (and btw you can get a few examples there), he states:

  • The uncool person is very focused on his status within the group
  • The cool person is almost entirely focused on what he brings to the group
This is to answer your question about how to match the value provided by the guy because the girls already value his value more than yours.

Don't focus on your status within the group or at least don't be overly worried about it.

Place all your attention only on providing value.

Intention is key here. You're not providing value to be better than the guy.

You're proving value to provide value.

Your value overshining the other guy is only a side effect of your value providing, not the main driver.

You're adding value to the group because you genuinely care about the group.

Intention goes a long way, trust me. I know it sounds cliche but it's not.

It's massive and it's far from being as simple as telling yourself that you want to add value to the group.

You gotta find that genuine desire to provide value and make the group better off.

So, intention is one. Take some time to really focus that.

Now, as to concrete examples of providing value. Again, it's pretty nuanced. I'm sure you've heard the "make jokes", which does not really help.

I won't tell you to be the life of the party as well (although, if you can, you should) since the other guy seems to be filling that gap.

Instead, I'll give you one motif.

Everything you say and do, if it stems from that motif, will come across as providing value.

Here goes:

I want to make people around me FEEL good.

(Quoting Chase here again, I'm not sure which article, it was about social skills)

Vibes.

Postive vibes.

In any interaction, genuinely strive to make the other person feel good.

Perhaps through a smile. Genuine, covid-infectious like smile.

Great conversation focussed on the other person.

Jokes, with the right timing and without coming across as try hard.

Study the environment and ask yourself how you can better the experience of those surrounding you. They are part of your tribe, they are your people. Someone is struggling with her suitcase (I'm assuming since it's gonna be a trip)? Go help her. Don't worry about being too much of a nice guy. You're not doing it to sleep with her. You're doing it because you're genuinely helping.

Someone seems a bit left out or worried? Approach her, give a little nudge, a smile and ask her if everything's alright, with a genuine concern. Offer some advice and then move on.

Have some snacks or some good food in your backpack and share it when they least expect it. Act like it's no big deal as this is just what you do. Be nochalant about it.

You're not expecting any outcome.

You're adding value to add value.

You're adding value because you genuinely care.

Notice the few examples I gave you. They all stem from the motif of making others feel good, in a genuine way.

Internalize this and you will be adding value anywhere, instantly. Mind the law of least effort, as always.

And you might be thinking that everything I'm asking you to do involves you doing things for others without expecting anything in return. Pure selfless acts, in other words. Why bother doing it at all if it's only to benefit the others, not you?

Well, there is actually one selfish motive behind selfessly providing value, and this is it: Helping others have a good time ensures YOU have a great time, especially if those positive vibes are being generated by you. You'll have the time of your life.

You might outshine the guy, one of the girls might drop on her knees to suck your dick because you're that awesome. All of that's cool, but that's just a byproduct of your value adding. A consequence, not the main motive. Never the main motive. Your value adding cannot be grounded in whether you'll appear cooler than that dude or that girl will like you. No, your value adding is grounded in something much bigger, much nobler.

Your value adding is something you do because you genuinely care.

Sure, actively work to fuck the girls (sexiness, isolation, etc)

Also actively work to add value.

I could not provide top actionable steps but I tried to explain to you what I had to figure out for myself not so long ago. I too had issues with value and whenever I asked a question about it, everyone would simply answer "It just means you have to add value"

Left me frustrated for a while.

Until I got in the moment, became present, alligned my intention and ensured everything is grounded in my main motif. Do all that, keep an eye for frame control attacks (and nastily defend yourself if need be), be sexy and aim to isolate and escalate with girls.

You got this man.
By far the BEST advice that i have read here !

You put in some of your soul in there, @James D

it's like you found yourself in OPs shoes and worked genuinely hard to learn the concept of adding value

I do have one question, what did you mean when you said :
Mind the law of least effort, as always.

What is this law ?

and, importantly, how does this figure into the context of adding value ? or even in the context of the OP's situation ?
 
Last edited:

James D

Modern Human
Modern Human
Joined
Jul 23, 2017
Messages
632
Thanks for showing me the mindset and goals that I should go with in this trip (and sorry for the late reply). Like you and others have advised, I did try to befriend the guy before the trip, but he is kind of a dick and arrogant (maybe because of his social proof and pre-selection in the group). Moreover, he is a little egotistical and likes to dominate/boss other guys in front of the girls. So, I might have to handle constant frame battles, back-handed compliments, etc. during this trip.

How do you think should I handle those type of situations? Do I follow his commands/leadership as to not seem competing with him or challenge/ question his decisions on certain things that I might disagree with?
Never follow commands or leadership.

Fight the frame battles, always.

Guys are gonna try to dominate you, it's part of life. Accept that challenges will come and fight them off.

Wait for him to do something specific that you don't like. Then, get him alone and say you'd like to talk to him. Sound and look serious and tell him that you'll talk first, not to intterupt you.

Tell him something along the lines of "Hey man, I don't exactly know what's going on here but I did not appreciate at all XYZ. It was pretty rude. If you have a genuine problem with me, feel free to talk it out. But what you're doing here, it makes everything toxic."

If he has a problem with you, genuinely try to solve it.

If he says he's just kidding, then tell him "Well, quit being a dick. I mean, if that's what you want to do, then let's not be friends or have any sorts of interactions. It's really no biggie but I thought I'd point it out in case you were not aware your behaviour was innapropriate.This trip is lit and I wanna enjoy it. If it was not your intention to be rude, then watch out for your behaviour. I'm sure you're a great guy and there is no reason why we can't get along fine"

If everyone tools you, then that's a tough situation to be in. You should still aim to be polite and be more on your own.

Social status is usually already set and unless you're insanely charismatic, it's hard to change things.

Don't worry man. This group is just one group. If they really exclude you, then fuck it. Enjoy your trip and focus on something else.

And about that guy, are you only feeling threatened by his arrogant behaviour or has he actually tooled you already? If he hasn't really tried to tool you, you're worrying waaaaaay too much. Be cool, be polite, befriend him in a low key way but don't give him too much attention either.
 

James D

Modern Human
Modern Human
Joined
Jul 23, 2017
Messages
632
By far the BEST advice that i have read here !

You put in some of your soul in there, @Mr. Hawaii

it's like you found yourself in OPs shoes and worked genuinely hard to learn the concept of adding value

I do have one question, what did you mean when you said :


What is this law ?

and, importantly, how does this figure into the context of adding value ? or even in the context of the OP's situation ?
Appreciate the feeback man.

And it's James D,hahaha, not Mr. Hawaii (though I'm sure he rocks too)

Law of least effort is a popular concept on Girls Chase. You can read the article.

The gist of it is to make everything you do appear as effortless as possible.

Maximum results for minimum effort.

It makes you look cool by default and removes any element of try-hardeness that you may have when trying to add value.

Say you tell a joke. But the timing is off. No one laughs. You expanded effort by telling the joke and received little to no results. Not cool.

Now, you tell a joke but you tell it by simply sliding it in a convo, like you were not even trying to tell a joke. But it's such a good joke and the timing is spot on. Everyone dies of laughter. You have a slight smile, continue sipping your drink.

Little effort, maximum reward.
 

Yaxir

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Mar 3, 2021
Messages
154
And it's James D,hahaha, not Mr. Hawaii (though I'm sure he rocks too)
Fixed :D

The gist of it is to make everything you do appear as effortless as possible.
ah ok

Little effort, maximum reward.
guess it's a skill that we learn eventually as we continue socializing, especially with people who are pretty much strangers (because that is where you have to really step out of your comfort zone ), sometimes all the discussions really make so much sense !

Cheers mate !
 

Will_V

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
2,036
Thanks for showing me the mindset and goals that I should go with in this trip (and sorry for the late reply). Like you and others have advised, I did try to befriend the guy before the trip, but he is kind of a dick and arrogant (maybe because of his social proof and pre-selection in the group). Moreover, he is a little egotistical and likes to dominate/boss other guys in front of the girls. So, I might have to handle constant frame battles, back-handed compliments, etc. during this trip.

How do you think should I handle those type of situations? Do I follow his commands/leadership as to not seem competing with him or challenge/ question his decisions on certain things that I might disagree with?

Looks like it's going to be a messy one. You sure you signed up for the right course...? ;)

To be honest, I think your chances of getting together with anyone here are pretty much nil. And though it might be hard to believe, I think your biggest problem is that the dude is not single. Because now you're going to have the cool guy who's trying to tool you and looked up to by the girls, who won't be getting laid, who would lose a lot of his status if you got laid and not him. So he's got every reason to tool and social police you until all the girls dismiss the idea of sleeping with you.

The way I see it, if you want to play by the rules, you're probably not going to get anywhere. And then the trip will be done, you'll never see them again, and you'll have the vague feeling that you got owned by life.

The way I look at life, a failure is a failure when it's under my control. The rest of the time, it's just fate. If you are going to lose, you might as well do it 'speaking the King's' as they say.

So here's what I would do. First, my rules:

- Don't swing first (metaphorically or otherwise).
- Never ever get emotional or frustrated.
- Never ever blame the girls or get mad at them (nature's little spectators).
- Play with boundaries.
- Enjoy yourself.

Then it's very simple. Go in expecting things to go well (treat everyone well, be nice, offer positivity and value, all that kind of stuff). Do what you need to do to satisfy yourself that had things gone well, you would have contributed to making it even better. And if it does go well, be happy and glad, because it is the best outcome.

And always give your enemies multiple opportunities to avoid problems, because they are weak and you are strong.

...

Now, the question of what to do when things go downhill is very difficult to answer, because it depends on a lot of things:

- Does the guy treat you badly because you act or appear weak, or because it's his nature?
- Does the guy tool you only when you do something legitimately uncool, or does he go searching for trouble?
- How receptive are the women to friendliness and well-calibrated conversation from a reasonably cool guy like yourself?
- How much do they like the guy because of his status, and how much because of his arrogant attitude?
- How much time are you forced to spend together? Can you easily ignore them most of the time?
- If you contribute something positive, does the group react positively in that moment or do they put you down even more?
- Who else is watching (professors/staff etc)? Is their respect more important for you long-term?

Ideally, you want to take a few hits and pretty much ignore them, until people admire your ability to not get flustered, appreciate your positivity and contributions, and become generally friendly toward you. You have nothing much to gain in this type of situation by getting reactive at all, and as @James D pointed out, the law of least effort is king.

But that said, I would try a few things.

- Be dominant and a little bit combative with the dude. Watch what happens and note the effects. Do girls perk up a bit and like it, or do they ignore it? Does he want to pull back a bit, or does it make him more aggressive?

- If a girl does something silly or dumb, laugh and tease her a little bit, even if it feels a bit awkward. How does the girl react? The other girls? The guy? How do you feel?

- Periodically 'walk away' from the group, do something on your own in the vicinity while completely ignoring them and with good posture and body language, like having a drink and looking out the window for a while, and rejoin them as if you just noticed they were still there. How does everyone react?

- It's hard to describe exactly, but try to do things that turn everyone's attention on to you. Tell a story while looking each person dead in the eye one after the other, use strong hand gestures, selfishly take up space and ignore interruptions and act as if you expect people to pay attention to you. How do people respond?

...

Let's say things go really downhill, and it becomes incessant tooling, put downs, and exclusion without you being able to really avoid being present for extended periods of time. They have ignored any offer of friendship, and see you as a toy brought along for the group to play with, without any ability to retaliate. This is very unlikely if you are a well-rounded guy, but it's not impossible if the guy is a real dick and everyone gets swept up in it.

In this case, what I personally would do, is become the rebel.

The rebel is someone who doesn't care about the rules, but when he breaks them, he breaks them for self-expression, not out of anger or fear. He accepts if the world doesn't like him, and does not hate it for that reason, but just goes on trying to bend it to his will because of his pride in himself and his enjoyment of tearing into life on his own terms.

If the guy tools you, tool him back, and enjoy it. If he gets under your armor, laugh at yourself. If he gets annoyed with you, laugh at him, and use every dirty tactic to make him look like a fool. If the group excludes you, turn your nose up and behave as if the only thing keeping you there is academic reasons. Be sweet to the girls (especially his girlfriend), and smile and enjoy it if they glare at you. If a girl tools you, tease her like you would your little sister, and if she reacts, completely ignore her like she just walked into a vortex. Enjoy anger and annoyance and hostility the way you would enjoy a straight shot of whiskey burning down your throat, and let them know you enjoy it. And above all, enjoy the fact that you love yourself so much that they can all go to hell and you wouldn't care.

This is not easy for many people to do, but someone who is somewhat in touch with their 'shadow' can find it quite easy and very enjoyable. In fact it is more deeply satisfying in many ways than the annoying struggle of maneuvering around social conventions and politeness.

What is much harder still, but one of the most rewarding experiences you can have in life, is to do it just carefully enough and subtly enough that people realize they are not dealing with the person they expected to be dealing with, and offer you respect instead. But while that is a nice goal to aim for, it's not always practically possible.

If you do it honestly, with spirit and genuine enjoyment, then even if it all burns down, you will walk away with even more self-respect than before. And you will see that even if the girls pretend to dislike you, they will respect you. And respect from a girl is a prerequisite for getting her to comply with your desires.

Even if the guy 'wins' and comes out pretty much unscathed, while you are battered and bruised (hopefully metaphorically) he will know that he was unable to make you submit to his frame or accept defeat, and the girls will know it too. And best of all, you will know it about yourself.

...

In the end, they are all just random people, who have done nothing (yet) to gain your respect and friendship and attention. Treat them as such, and value yourself above them in all circumstances.
 

Yaxir

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Mar 3, 2021
Messages
154
This thread should be sticked, there's a lot of great advice

what @Will_V wrote above is something that .. well, it doesn't just apply to pick up, game and seduction

it's actually great advice if you're going to a new place or have to get into a new group of people

it's pretty much how you socialize, but in a calm and seasoned manner

i love the part where it's said that you have to love yourself, regardless of the outcome

that's essential for anyone hoping to learn game, because it will definitely help you overcoming your own barriers like; fear of rejection, being seen as ugly, lame or simply not a good enough man by a girl you want to seduce

it's only after we overcome such anxious thoughts and irrelevant fears (thus developing a good part of the inner game), that we can move on to doing the actual work in polishing game for optimizing interactions with strangers
 
Top