Was this needy?

[Darius]

Hey everyone,

I'm trying to get my texting in check. I have to say, it is a *lot* harder to keep a girl's attention if she's not social circle or you haven't met her in a socially relevant circumstance (like a class for instance). So here's one example where I feel I could've gotten her on a date if my texting game was on point. I can't quite pinpoint if I did anything wrong or if she just lost interest.
---

Cute girl I met during night game at a bar. We spoke for maybe 20 minutes, had a good connection, got a lot of compliance for her, asked her to move around, touched her earring, played with her hair. She told me I was the handsomest guy there in a playful manner. Just very sexual and playful all around. But after a while her friends came and scooped her up, and she had to leave.

I didn't ask for her number, her friends scooped her up way too fast (literally pulled her hand). I was sitting around with a friend after, when she came back and apologised for leaving, and offered me her number. I wanted to invite her home then and there but I remembered my place was a complete fucking mess so I didn't do it. In hindsight I really should have.

This is our texting after we met:

Thursday evening / Friday morning after she gave me her number

Darius (00:58 AM): pssst
Darius (00:58 AM): hey HB, Darius here hope you have a nice evening !

^ here I think this might have been a bit weak, we really had a good connection, I should've said something along the lines of 'it was lovely meeting you' instead of wishing her a nice evening with her friends...

Friday

Darius (9:55 PM): hi HB, hope your vacation is going well! I went climbing today, it was a lot of sport ahah. Anyways, I thought I'd text you now! What's your programme for the weekend? let's grab a coffee

Saturday

HB (9:58 AM): Hey Darius! I hope you're well, I'm sorry for not responding. I am still working here, and I have a pretty full weekend, but I could one evening next week if that's okay with you?
Darius (4:52 PM): no worries! I thought you were a student ahah. In any case, if you are still working, it would be good to take a pleasure break
Darius (4:52 PM): what is your schedule like for next week?

*no answer*

^ that student part was a stupid-ass text lol. I might have also sent her in autorejection because I completely forgot she was not on vacation. Also the timing was a bit bad, she sent me a text at 10AM and I replied at 5PM. I really was busy though.

Monday

Darius (3:55 PM): Hey HB, hope you're having a nice Monday!

*no answer*

Thursday

Darius (2:15 PM): hey HB, I thought I'd send you a text since it's been a while hope you're well!
Darius (2:20 PM): we had a good connection last time we talked, but it seems like you're busy. when you're done with your work let me know and we can take that coffee ciao!

So my main question - was that last text of 'let me know when you're free' needy? Was there something else I could've done instead? I kinda ran out of ideas when she wasn't responding at all.

Also, does this look like loss of interest, or did she go into autorejection, or no way of knowing?

I'm not sure this is the best example to work with, but it does feel bad to lose a pretty girl like this. I suspect if I had played the texting game better I 100% could have gotten her.

Any opinions gladly taken.

 

[DarkKnight]

You wrote way too much.. I have just skimmed the entire text but it is obvious: yes needy.

 

[Darius]

You wrote way too much.. I have just skimmed the entire text but it is obvious: yes needy.

i see what you mean, thanks for the input!

but how do you re-engage a girl when she doesn't answer then? i just kept pinging her but no answer after 2 times.

do I just drop her and move on?

 

[DarkKnight]

i see what you mean, thanks for the input!

but how do you re-engage a girl when she doesn't answer then? i just kept pinging her but no answer after 2 times.

do I just drop her and move on?

Ask one of the text pros... which I am not. I Would see it as bad behavior and instantly replace. If I saw hew her in real life I would be detached and callous. But that is just me.. massive amounts of pride lol. Only leeway is if I had put the girl in autorejection, then it is on me.

@fog @Skills

These guys are your medicine.

 

[Skjöldr]

this is a dead horse. in the future, don't hard close right after the icebreaker. i used to do this but now i follow @Skills and @Velasco texting

 

[Darius]

Ask one of the text pros... which I am not. I Would see it as bad behavior and instantly replace. If I saw hew her in real life I would be detached and callous. But that is just me.. massive amounts of pride lol. Only leeway is if I had put the girl in autorejection, then it is on me.

@fog @Skills

These guys are your medicine.

got it, thanks again i'm personally more interested in getting pussy, so for me it's not really a deal breaker unless it's like blatant disrespect (or being detached and callous would get her in my bed lol)

this is a dead horse. in the future, don't hard close right after the icebreaker. i used to do this but now i follow @Skills and @Velasco texting

sucks to hear it's a dead horse but at least I get to learn something.

the thing that really confuses me is - she agreed to it then nothing. I don't know how to interpret that from her, I guess she planned on doing it but as time passed she just lost interest or met some other dude?

also I'm still not sure how one should re-engage if after 2-3 shots she doesn't answer. I guess I'll have to hit the field more and experiment a bit. I used to send memes or pics to girls I know and then see if they bite. Maybe that'll work here too.

 

[DarkKnight]

^ expect for women to change. There is a whole article about it

 

[Darius]

just came back from reading it - that article is exactly what I needed to understand what happened here. Just ebb and flow of the game.

Leaving it here if anyone else is curious -

Always Plan for a Woman to Change

A woman can be fickle and changeable. But why is this so? Science shows us this fickleness is an inherent aspect of female decision making. You hit it off with a cute, professional-looking Latina at happy hour. She seems happy to talk to you, friendly, and a little bit flirty. You think she’s...

www.girlschase.com

 

[Skills]

Thursday evening / Friday morning after she gave me her number

Darius (00:58 AM): pssst

^ i have never in real life, movies etc... have ever heard pssst working, it is like the worst opener in person or online... learn how to open or get ideas here

Darius (00:58 AM): hey HB, Darius here hope you have a nice evening !

^ here I think this might have been a bit weak, we really had a good connection, I should've said something along the lines of 'it was lovely meeting you' instead of wishing her a nice evening with her friends...

^ too nice vibe accomodating subcommunication, "it was lovely to meet you" "it was so delightful to meet you" = i am a nice desperate guy vibe that dries vagina, cool guys don't text like this or even talk like this live.. Learn how to soft close properly here

Friday

Darius (9:55 PM): hi HB, hope your vacation is going well! I went climbing today, it was a lot of sport ahah. Anyways, I thought I'd text you now! What's your programme for the weekend? let's grab a coffee

^awww! such a sweetheart! she is no replying to your "nice guy Urkel from family matters vibe, or the pastor kid" then with 0 investment after triple texting weak messages, you ask her for coffee... i am surprised she even reply i would have gone bought my pepper spray if i am hot girl at this point...

Saturday

HB (9:58 AM): Hey Darius! I hope you're well, I'm sorry for not responding. I am still working here, and I have a pretty full weekend, but I could one evening next week if that's okay with you?
Darius (4:52 PM): no worries! I thought you were a student ahah. In any case, if you are still working, it would be good to take a pleasure break
Darius (4:52 PM): what is your schedule like for next week?

there you go with a hard close again, she is like how how are you maybe next week, then you go "how your schedule looks like next week" at this point she knows she is dealing with social low experience guy... Again cool people don't text like this, this lower your value till you hit rock bottom in her eyes, your value went to shit!

*no answer*

^ i would not blame her, i am surprise she was giving you chances after sooo many mistakes...

^ that student part was a stupid-ass text lol. I might have also sent her in autorejection because I completely forgot she was not on vacation. Also the timing was a bit bad, she sent me a text at 10AM and I replied at 5PM. I really was busy though.

^ that was not the problem your text subcommunication was...

Monday

Darius (3:55 PM): Hey HB, hope you're having a nice Monday!

*no answer*

Thursday

Darius (2:15 PM): hey HB, I thought I'd send you a text since it's been a while hope you're well!
Darius (2:20 PM): we had a good connection last time we talked, but it seems like you're busy. when you're done with your work let me know and we can take that coffee ciao!

subcommunication of this interaction in womanese:

open
banter: you are so great and amazing and so lucky to meet you and i want to see you and meet you again
she responds: i have been busy but i will be willing to see you again next week
when next week
when next week
when next week
when next week

 

[Darius]

hoo man, I got torn a new asshole. Okay, I have some comments on this-

^ i have never in real life, movies etc... have ever heard pssst working, it is like the worst opener in person or online... learn how to open or get ideas here

it's not an opener in itself, you say something after it. I like it because it sets a vibe of a secret conversation just between me and her. I would never do it in person though, yeah.

I don't think a 'psst' is ever going to turn a girl away from me to be honest.

^ too nice vibe accomodating subcommunication, "it was lovely to meet you" "it was so delightful to meet you" = i am a nice desperate guy vibe that dries vagina, cool guys don't text like this or even talk like this live.. Learn how to soft close properly here

Most of Chase / Hector's articles on texting on GC have this as an ice breaker. And it worked fine and got me laid enough times. I never really understood this 'never compliment a girl' or 'anything you do that's nice for her makes you weak' mentality. I'm happy, I want her to be happy too that she met me.

How to Text a Girl in 2022

This guide will show you exactly how to text a girl. Including: Texting a girl examples Copy-paste texting templates Emerging texting trends Must-read resources Lots more If you want to go from novice to 'textpert', this guide is for you. Let's begin. About the Author Chase Amante here. I'm an...

www.girlschase.com

https://imgur.com/a/zk5tDrE

14 Simple Ways to Text a Girl and Make Her Want You

Don't know how to text a girl you like? Copy these texts and send them to her to get her excited and ready to go out with you. Contents 1. Icebreaker Text 2. Same Day Date Text 3. Next Day Date Text 4. Standard Scheduler Text 5. Proposal Text 6. No Worries Text 7. Scheduler II Text 8. Scheduler...

www.girlschase.com

https://imgur.com/a/e7rwO9r

heck Chase has an article entirely on compliments -

Don’t be So Afraid to Compliment Others

Several times over the years, both on this site and in our newsletter, I’ve discussed compliments: both how to compliment, as well as when to do it, what compliments work best, and even a few nonverbal tricks to make your compliments more convincing.

www.girlschase.com

I think it generally works IF she sees you as a high value guy, which she did when we talked (remember she came back and legit threw her number at me). I don't think it's at this point that the interaction went south.

^awww! such a sweetheart! she is no replying to your "nice guy Urkel from family matters vibe, or the pastor kid" then with 0 investment after triple texting weak messages, you ask her for coffee... i am surprised she even reply i would have gone bought my pepper spray if i am hot girl at this point...

again there's several articles from the site that have this type of 'nice guy' texting. I'm not trying to piss on your advice, just to make sense of everything.

You can make the case that any compliment or good vibes you give a girl are 'weak' and 'nice guy Urkel' and you're a simp. But I'm generally a nice dude. I really dislike doing manipulative stuff like negging or what not. I don't think that's what you mean by me being too nice, is it? I think you just meant that I'm not sexual enough, which I can try to incorporate more flirting there.

I agree though that hard closing there was a bad move, so thanks for that. From now on i'll do your trick and not hard close until I got some good vibes going.

subcommunication of this interaction in womanese:

open
banter: you are so great and amazing and so lucky to meet you and i want to see you and meet you again
she responds: i have been busy but i will be willing to see you again next week
when next week
when next week
when next week
when next week

Ok, here I get the point. Too much closing, should have gone back to rapport building and stop trying to hard close if the vibe is not there. Or stop texting entirely for a longer time and give her a break before re-engaging.

All in all, thanks for the response but some points I disagree with. I know you've got a lot of experience and your posts really helped me a lot in the past, so I appreciate the advice.

I'll try to not close unless I reach a high point. And I'll try to add a sexual element and get her investing IN ADDITION TO being a nice dude. Hope I'll get better texting results like this.

Cheers.

 

[Skjöldr]

Dude that texting doesnt work. I agree however that texting a girl "Hey hb, cool meeting you, have fun with your friends! -name" isn't really a bad icebreaker. It isn't a good icebreaker either though, but along those lines i used for a year until a few weeks ago when i started giving girls my number instead and while having their phone text myself "Hey cutie" "hey sexy" "hey handsome" "omg i loved dancing with you hot redhead guy" you get the idea. there are a billion ways to do this.

Her (me): "omg i just met the most handsome guy, it was so romantic, what is his name?
Me: "Phoenix aka sexy viking aka HB's future ex lover"

 

[Darius]

never said my texting worked! that's why I posted here, cause I wanted advice on where it went wrong

i'll definitely try what Skills suggests, my problem was with the harsh 'Urkel' comments on what are otherwise good openers (in my opinion and also Chase/Hector's). Spicing it up a bit with 'sexy' or 'handsome' and setting a sexual vibe from the start of texting sounds great.

 

[Skills]

never said my texting worked! that's why I posted here, cause I wanted advice on where it went wrong

i'll definitely try what Skills suggests, my problem was with the harsh 'Urkel' comments on what are otherwise good openers (in my opinion and also Chase/Hector's). Spicing it up a bit with 'sexy' or 'handsome' and setting a sexual vibe from the start of texting sounds great.

bro! i am just busting your balls and humor, i apologize if it came as offensive... You are doing good, taking action after a break up... props to you!

 

[Dreamer]

Hey there,

I briefly read through your some of your older posts, to gain some perspective of where you're coming from and your background in all this.

Cute girl I met during night game at a bar. We spoke for maybe 20 minutes, had a good connection, got a lot of compliance for her, asked her to move around, touched her earring, played with her hair. She told me I was the handsomest guy there in a playful manner. Just very sexual and playful all around. But after a while her friends came and scooped her up, and she had to leave.

Hmmm... seems like you did ok here. Since I'm mostly a NG guy, I'm more than aware of friends swooping in and complicating things. One way to pre-empt this is when you see the friends coming in, just cut your thread, get closer to her, and whisper in hear ear: Optional: "Don't be rude" (calibrate when using this since it may be misinterpreted) AND "Introduce me to your friend(s). It's the polite thing to do. I'm ____" (credit: Mys for this one). Usually, if there's mild interest on her part, she'll comply with this request. Once the introductions are done, you'll have to calibrate and see how to play things. You can either just talk to the friends (ie treat it like a multi-set) or if they're leaving attempting to pull her/check in on her, you could do something like I did when I was in isolation in the smoking section recently and her friends were looking for her. None of them spoke EN so I had to speak in the native language, which may have helped a bit: "Gimme' 5 mins with your friend, we'll be sitting here, then she'll join you or you can come back and check on us".

I didn't ask for her number, her friends scooped her up way too fast (literally pulled her hand). I was sitting around with a friend after, when she came back and apologised for leaving, and offered me her number. I wanted to invite her home then and there but I remembered my place was a complete fucking mess so I didn't do it. In hindsight I really should have.

I'll go out on a limb here and say from your IRL description above this seemed like a surefire lay (at least I would've figured as much if this happened to me). Leaving her friends? Check. Returning to you (instead of latching onto some other guy)? Check. Apologizing for leaving and offering you her number? Check. It would've been a good idea to figure out her logisitcs then and there (ie is there a designated driver? Did she come together with her friends? What part of town she lives in? Does she have to work tomorrow? etc). Velasco used to have good advice on screening for logistics if I recall. I'll see if I can find anything; unfortunately, my old bookmarks are all MIA.

If you don't want to go for the SNL for whatever reason, and get the number to set up a day 2 instead, a couple of things I usually follow. Firstly, set up what used to be called a timebridge. It could be anything, some event you want to go, some niche cafe which grinds their beans a specific way, a park with a good view , your favorite ice cream shop, your art collection (if you paint), your cooking skills, anything or any excuse to get her out see her again THEN get the number. When getting the number, a few things I try and always do (so it doesn't flake):

1. Program your name in her phone, and hers in yours
2. Send her a text immediately, whatever works with your personality. Skills does the variation of: "OMG! Who's that hot/handsome/sexy latino stud standing next to you". Phoenix does something similar apparently. Whatever works but make it a bit unique and not bland.
3. Optional: I usually do this. Get her to reply to your text, but make it a bit creative and not boring. You could give her a nickname for example, and tell her: "Hmmm... you know what you look like *insert name here*". Or you could say: "Hmmm... you know your eyes flutter when you blink, that's what I'll call you" Text yourself: "fluttery eyes" / "dreamy eyes" I think you get where I'm going with this.

bro! i am just busting your balls and humor, i apologize if it came as offensive... You are doing good, taking action after a break up... props to you!

I had to explain this to someone else who was nitpicking a bit your posting style the other day, I'm a bit surprised a few of the ppl still can't sense your vibe / humor in your responses, or they think you're being harsh.

I think it generally works IF she sees you as a high value guy, which she did when we talked (remember she came back and legit threw her number at me). I don't think it's at this point that the interaction went south.

Correct. No the interaction didn't go south here. Quite the opposite, I'd say, this was the high point of your entire interaction with her, which you could've capitalized on in a few ways I mentioned above.

I never really understood this 'never compliment a girl' or 'anything you do that's nice for her makes you weak' mentality. I'm happy, I want her to be happy too that she met me.

That's a whole other topic. I'm usually not a compliment guy, with the exception of 'sexualized compliments' on occasion, although I did have a lead tell me recently something ALA: "damn you know how to compliment a woman don't u?". Go figure. There are many formulas for compliments. The best I've seen are from the OG.'s of direct game mostly, But compliments IRL (in real life) v/s over text are a bit different. IRL obviously you can better show your vibe / delivery / voice tonality / body language etc...

But I'm generally a nice dude. I really dislike doing manipulative stuff like negging or what not. I don't think that's what you mean by me being too nice, is it?

Fair enough but it wasn't the fact that you were nice, which was the problem. It was that you likely came across as needy, and insecure to the girl (I bet for sure this is how she perceived it) which repels most chicks. Even though she gave you another chance by replying to you, and you didn't self-correct. When I read your initial field report then your texting exchange, it sounded like 2 different guys.

 

[Skills]

Hmmm... seems like you did ok here. Since I'm mostly a NG guy, I'm more than aware of friends swooping in and complicating things. One way to pre-empt this is when you see the friends coming in, just cut your thread, get closer to her, and whisper in hear ear: Optional: "Don't be rude" (calibrate when using this since it may be misinterpreted) AND "Introduce me to your friend(s). It's the polite thing to do. I'm ____" (credit: Mys for this one). Usually, if there's mild interest on her part, she'll comply with this request. Once the introductions are done, you'll have to calibrate and see how to play things. You can either just talk to the friends (ie treat it like a multi-set) or if they're leaving attempting to pull her/check in on her, you could do something like I did when I was in isolation in the smoking section recently and her friends were looking for her. None of them spoke EN so I had to speak in the native language, which may have helped a bit: "Gimme' 5 mins with your friend, we'll be sitting here, then she'll join you or you can come back and check on us".

You can also say to the friends: "hey i just met your friend __________________ She seems pretty cool, i am dreamer" this one is from cajun...

or what i do is i introduce the cockblock to the friend.... " hey cockblock, this is sussie, she is really cool girl and say something unique about the target she is pretty cool teacher and she loves to scuba dive"

As I am pulling her out of the club and the other ok player dude pulls the married chick, I be-friend her friend…

Skills: Hi Natalia (i remember her name cause my target was looking for her)

Let me introduce you to “Cuban hot girl name ” (her name, fuck I forgot, but i knew back then, don’t hate, it has been 3 days), she is down here from Canada.

Natalia: Hi, lol, i know, where are you from?

Skills: according to my mom ” I am from Heaven i just felt and hurt my knees”

Natalia: lol, i like him already I have to warn you about her…

whole field report

 

[Darius]

thank you for the replies both! feel grateful to have advanced guys to help me out

the friends situation was a bit weirder, it was originally a set of 2 that I opened, they both responded quite nicely, and were competing for my attention. I gave both of them kind of equal attention but maintained more eye contact with the hot one and the other I could see got a bit jealous.

My friend was just chilling around so I grabbed him and introduced him to the girls, had a bit of conversation as a group, then I asked the hot girl to come with me to a quiet place next to the beach (it was an outdoors bar).

Her friend came later and really grabbed her arm and said 'hey we gotta go we have stuff to do tomorrow' and she just nodded and went away with the friend. I legit couldn't get a word in lol. I think that's part of the reason she came back, it was super abrupt of her to leave.

Still, great tips for cockblock handling.

Fair enough but it wasn't the fact that you were nice, which was the problem. It was that you likely came across as needy, and insecure to the girl (I bet for sure this is how she perceived it) which repels most chicks. ... When I read your initial field report then your texting exchange, it sounded like 2 different guys.

I feel like I'm about to learn something big here.

What is neediness? I thought it was just you needing the relationship more than the girl does. But if that's the real definition, what is the difference between persistence and neediness?

Say I have a girl over and she wants to leave. I ask her to stay with me 5 more mins, so we talk more about X topic. I'm technically needing the relationship more than she does. But that, in my opinion is persistence, and it's a good thing. Sure she may say no and leave but a lot of the times she'll agree. Had I not persisted there I would have lost her, and I've done it enough times to know that it can get you laid.

Now that I think of it, all of the pre-sex mating dance and escalations that we do is based on the girl resisting and us persisting. Yet that is not seen as neediness by the girl.

However, if I text a girl longer texts, or I text her 3-4 times without an answer, it comes across as needy. I personally saw this as just me persisting for a meet, but it seems like I sent entirely the wrong message. Any thoughts?

Even though she gave you another chance by replying to you, and you didn't self-correct

Super curious, how would a self-correct look like here? Let's say I entered this situation but woke up midway through, what should I have texted her to get her hooked again?

 

[Darius]

Bump

Reading a lot of books and articles on this, still can't wrap my head around it.

I'm also in a similar situation with another girl, I'm really afraid of texting her something needy and losing another lay that seemed promising

 

[Skills]

Bump

Reading a lot of books and articles on this, still can't wrap my head around it.

I'm also in a similar situation with another girl, I'm really afraid of texting her something needy and losing another lay that seemed promising

Being scared of texting something needy, is a needy action itself, don't go all over the place....test one method or system then another and see what works...

 

[Dreamer]

Bump

Reading a lot of books and articles on this, still can't wrap my head around it.

I'm also in a similar situation with another girl, I'm really afraid of texting her something needy and losing another lay that seemed promising

Hey Darius,

I haven't forgotten' this thread. I'll try and see if I can write up a proper, practical and useful reply to this, but been a bit busy and it's a Saturday evening here at the moment. It's a bit difficult for me to breakdown something as basic as "neediness" since I first got rid of this sticking point over a decade ago and after being in this for a long time it's one of those things where "I know it when I see it". For me, it may have been one of the more popular early ebooks in this sphere, which broke it down for me, like some concepts ie "The Inner Wuss" etc. that hit the nail on the head. Or to quote another OG of direct game: *cue the Slavic accent here*: "Girls in general HATE nice guys because they are boring, predictable, monotone, addicted to the routines, insecure, not fun, serious and without life". Humorous delivery aside, it may be a bit extreme and blunt, but it's more accurate than inaccurate. Perhaps these articles on here may be a good place to start: this, this and this for a better breakdown explanation.

Persistence and neediness are totally different concepts. The first time I read about persistence, the simple / early definition was: "not ejecting too early (ie self-rejecting yourself" from the set (as per Gunwitch's definition). A guy who's persistent isn't the same as a guy who's needy, not by a long shot. Perhaps if you persist in an uncalibrated way it could come across as needy? IDK, but definitely not if you persist in a pragmatic manner.

Say I have a girl over and she wants to leave. I ask her to stay with me 5 more mins, so we talk more about X topic. I'm technically needing the relationship more than she does. But that, in my opinion is persistence, and it's a good thing. Sure she may say no and leave but a lot of the times she'll agree. Had I not persisted there I would have lost her, and I've done it enough times to know that it can get you laid.

I would file this in the persistent category, not neediness. Girls are more than likely turned on than turned off by a guy who's persistent and takes the responsibility to push through token resistance via persistance make the sex happen.

Now that I think of it, all of the pre-sex mating dance and escalations that we do is based on the girl resisting and us persisting. Yet that is not seen as neediness by the girl.

I see your point but I think this is a slightly simple view of the male-female sexual dynamic, ie her "resisting" and you "persisting" all the time. I don't like the framing and I doubt this is how most mutual interactions go down. She'll resist at some points sure, but not always and not when she's enjoying the inateraction with your or chasing you even (ie one of the tenets of old school indirect game) I don't think so. There are times you'll have to persist, but certainly not always. However, being proactive in managing the interaction / leading the conversation and escalating the vibe is probably a better and more helpful way to view things versus you resisting and her persisting. Also there are times where you have to take a step back and allow her to do the chasing, this wouldn't qualify her as resisting either.

However, if I text a girl longer texts, or I text her 3-4 times without an answer, it comes across as needy. I personally saw this as just me persisting for a meet, but it seems like I sent entirely the wrong message. Any thoughts?

It can come across that way (to her), yes. However, keep in mind now you're talking about texting, it's a different medium than IRL (in-real-life interactions). If you strung a few sentences together IRL and talked for a minute or so while she sat and listened, I doubt you'd come across as needy versus if you did the same over text are two entirely different dynamics. Also, you can text longer texts without coming across as needy if you calibrate to the girl. I've had girls for example, text me long paragraphs even at times.

Super curious, how would a self-correct look like here? Let's say I entered this situation but woke up midway through, what should I have texted her to get her hooked again?

I usually avoid commenting on specifics, as I think there are other member's who're probably better @ it @Skills @fog @POB to mention a few. But a place to start would be reading some of the texting guides they've posted over the past few months / years. But this is where she gave you a lifeline despite (and apologized again no less!) your earlier texting mistakes:

Saturday

HB (9:58 AM): Hey Darius! I hope you're well, I'm sorry for not responding. I am still working here, and I have a pretty full weekend, but I could one evening next week if that's okay with you?

Darius (4:52 PM): no worries! (again this along with the exclamation mark could subcommunicate to her she can act / behave how she wants to / has already won you over, so better to avoid) I thought you were a student ahah (enough with the "ahah" and "lols" please it sounds a bit too casual. Skills mentioned somewhere to avoid hahas and lols over text unless one's an advanced texter and know what you're doing) In any case, if you are still working, it would be good to take a pleasure break (not bad, but Skills's 'you should take a break from all that work and meet this hot/handsome/sexy latino guy you met @ ____ club' is a bit less risky "pleasure break ;-)" may come across as a bit too sexual too early)

Darius (4:52 PM): what is your schedule like for next week? (hardclosing again)

*no answer*

^ that student part was a stupid-ass text lol. I might have also sent her in autorejection because I completely forgot she was not on vacation. Also the timing was a bit bad, she sent me a text at 10AM and I replied at 5PM. I really was busy though.

^ Correct the student part was unnecessary, and if she wasn't on vacation and you told her she was then may have come across as a bit odd. I don't think the timing was the problem here.

How would I have replied? It really depends on how the set went for me. In this case I may have waited a day to reply even because you showed way too much investment upfront. Plus, it's the weekend and I rarely setup dates on Fri evenings / Sat evenings. And it's generally not a good idea I find to reply to them on weekend evenings (they're usually busy partying / with their GF's etc... but again this depends on the girl though and if she's that type or not) I'd have replied the next day (Sun midday / afternoon) something like: "Hey HB. I'm busy with work commitment on *insert days here* but I can probably squeeze a quick coffee on *inset days here* so let's figure something out for next week / touch bases next week".

 

[Darius]

Being scared of texting something needy, is a needy action itself, don't go all over the place....test one method or system then another and see what works...

I see... it really is a mind game, isn't it... it's like "try not to think of a pink elephant". Just the notion of me coming across as needy makes me needy, because I really want to avoid it if I can. The problem is that I'm not needy in person, and it really is painful that I come across like it in text. What's worse is I have no idea why or how to stop it. I'll try and experiment more as you said.

@Dreamer thank you for the elaborated post.

I haven't forgotten' this thread. I'll try and see if I can write up a proper, practical and useful reply to this, but been a bit busy and it's a Saturday evening here at the moment. It's a bit difficult for me to breakdown something as basic as "neediness" since I first got rid of this sticking point over a decade ago and after being in this for a long time it's one of those things where "I know it when I see it". For me, it may have been one of the more popular early ebooks in this sphere, which broke it down for me, like some concepts ie "The Inner Wuss" etc. that hit the nail on the head. Or to quote another OG of direct game: *cue the Slavic accent here*: "Girls in general HATE nice guys because they are boring, predictable, monotone, addicted to the routines, insecure, not fun, serious and without life". Humorous delivery aside, it may be a bit extreme and blunt, but it's more accurate than inaccurate. Perhaps these articles on here may be a good place to start: this, this and this for a better breakdown explanation.

Read all of those, I feel like I got a good grip on neediness from the in-person perspective. The best presentation I saw by far on it was by Oren Klaff (related to sales no less!) in his interview here (and his book). It has some amazing parallels to seduction, definitely recommend that to anyone wanting to learn more on neediness and on social dynamics in general. First sales book I see detailing frames, frame battles and social status.

I would file this in the persistent category, not neediness. Girls are more than likely turned on than turned off by a guy who's persistent and takes the responsibility to push through token resistance via persistance make the sex happen.

yes! exactly my experience! Ideally what I'd like to learn out of all of this is to take that in-person persistence that's cool and calibrated and migrate it to texting so then I could ping girls every 2-3 days or something and sooner or later get them to meet me. From there it's all good.

I see your point but I think this is a slightly simple view of the male-female sexual dynamic, ie her "resisting" and you "persisting" all the time. I don't like the framing and I doubt this is how most mutual interactions go down. She'll resist at some points sure, but not always and not when she's enjoying the inateraction with your or chasing you even (ie one of the tenets of old school indirect game) I don't think so. There are times you'll have to persist, but certainly not always. However, being proactive in managing the interaction / leading the conversation and escalating the vibe is probably a better and more helpful way to view things versus you resisting and her persisting. Also there are times where you have to take a step back and allow her to do the chasing, this wouldn't qualify her as resisting either.

It's a very simple view indeed and it really discards a lot of the sexual dynamic. My point was just that it's the 'natural' order for a guy to sometimes persist and for a girl to sometimes resist. Seldom I've seen these roles change. Even if a girl is chasing a guy, she won't escalate anything by herself to allow him to play the 'resist' game, if she is high value. Most girls will just drop him after a while if he fails to move things forward and doesn't lead the interaction as you said.

So given that as a guy you sometimes have to persist, what I didn't get was how my texting was needy and not persistent. I think you've answered that below

It can come across that way (to her), yes. However, keep in mind now you're talking about texting, it's a different medium than IRL (in-real-life interactions). If you strung a few sentences together IRL and talked for a minute or so while she sat and listened, I doubt you'd come across as needy versus if you did the same over text are two entirely different dynamics. Also, you can text longer texts without coming across as needy if you calibrate to the girl. I've had girls for example, text me long paragraphs even at times.

I see.. I guess it all comes down to calibrating persistence to the texting environment. Just texting with a lot of girls should take care of that I guess. And posting FRs here so everyone can see the fuck-ups in all their glory (on a serious note, this FR really did help me understand a lot)

again this along with the exclamation mark could subcommunicate to her she can act / behave how she wants to / has already won you over, so better to avoid

noted! Here I was trying to convey a 'no pressure' vibe. If I had to give an example, it would be kind of like when a girl says "we're not having sex tonight" and you go "no of course we're not doing anything you don't want to do". But I can see how this can be seen as me accepting any sort of behaviour from her.

not bad, but Skills's 'you should take a break from all that work and meet this hot/handsome/sexy latino guy you met @ ____ club' is a bit less risky "pleasure break ;-)" may come across as a bit too sexual too early

noted again! refrain from things that can be seen as sexual too early. This was meant to be a light flirt, but I went too much on the sexual side.

"Hey HB. I'm busy with work commitment on *insert days here* but I can probably squeeze a quick coffee on *inset days here* so let's figure something out for next week / touch bases next week"

understood. When a text sounded too needy, downgrade your availability and make her go through hoops (i.e. your schedule) to get you. I guess essentially just pull back your investment to get slightly below hers.