What counts as old anyway?

[DarkKnight]

So guys, I was reading the article of Chase about age and older guys. So what counts as old anyway? Ironically as I have progressed through the years I get much more interest than ever. I seem to have gotten rid of covid rust, which really had killed my vibe and gave me feelings of scarcity and much more mental pressure due to the time lost. I seem to have gotten rid of that feeling and everything is suddenly smooth sailing... despite progressing in my age. My only hickup seems to be my time increasingly being more demanded upon.

So, when is the approximate age when men are considered old and the game suddenly changes? Kind of found the article to be a downer as well (I am very certain Chase didn't mean it like that) because it feels like as you become older you need to trade in quality for youth.

And then you have the manosphere guys ofcourse also parroting that men age like fine wine.

I want to hear your thoughts

 

[RedNeck]

I do not know what he meant by old, and I found the articles to be drowner too. But I think what he meant is as person get older, you should fit the expectation in this category. A 25 yo chick will be forgiving for a guy who is her age but at low-level in his corporate job, but she won't be forgiving for 45 yo man who is still a low-level employee. Because at 45 yo if the person is still at a low-level job, this means he is a loser unlike the 25 yo

 

[gameboy]

So, when is the approximate age when men are considered old and the game suddenly changes?

I don't think that "game suddenly changes". Ageing is a very, very gradual process.

I'm 49 myself, and in my experience, it's mainly health challenges popping up. Also, having less energy overall than I used to.

Being in good health is *way* more important than having your own business. If you can have both that's awesome of course.

 

[POB]

So, when is the approximate age when men are considered old and the game suddenly changes?

If I had to guess, I'd say around 42-43.
But it depends on the man.

I'm 44 and for the last 10 years it has pretty much stayed the same for me.
Though I still look like I'm in my early 30s, and that's a very important point!

If you are in your 40s and look a lot younger, of course women will be more attracted to you, because:
A) you behave like a mature guy, and at the same time
B) you look like a young guy
...meaning you have the best of both worlds.

Now, even if you have those qualities, being a broke artist, like the article says, will probably make you need to do the trade off.
Barring exceptions, no young chick who's got the looks will fall for a broke (but handsome) 40yo dude.

On the other hand, even if you are a 7-8 in looks, but has your life in check (travel, own house, lifestyle) being over 40 is super attractive.
Meaning you are a safe bet for them, but still considered hot and desirable.

 

[ulrich]

If I understood right, Chase was saying that as you get older you need to trade the quality (of a similar age partner) for youth (of a much younger woman).

I don’t think it’s a bad thing… I just think it is a thing… the further you stray away from your age, the less you can use your relatability to cement attraction.

But, I would reframe it in another way… if you want to keep dating 20 year old… you just need to keep your value going up.
The bigger the age difference the more important your success is.

You can do a “tradeoff” or you can just commit to self development cycle and keep fucking goddesses while becoming more of a god yourself.

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

I saw a study once where women were shown pictures of men, and asked the question: "Does this man look old?" And the cut off was age 50, where most women started to answer "yes".

The main age indicators are 1. wrinkles, 2. hair and 3. facial fat. So avoid overexposure to the sun, dye and if necessary transplant your hair, and stay lean.

Another interesting data point comes from Sinn, he was lead instructor at Mystery Method after Mystery left (right around the VA/LS split in 2007). He has probably taught more clients live in field than almost anyone else in the world.

His conclusion from coaching thousands of guys in the real world was: a 20-year age gap is doable with good game. More than 20 years, and it will be about money.

He also quotes marriage statistics and says the average couple has a 7 year age gap. So it's not only normal for a man to be 7 years older than a woman, but that's actually the average, meaning there will be plenty of outliers in either direction (with much larger age gaps).

The girl I just broke up with was 27, and I'm 43. It felt like a great match to both of us. I also heard from Sinn that just about every woman who's over 25 has hooked up with a 40+ year old guy at some point. So if you're okay with 25+... happy days. They're all open.

Fundamentals become incredibly important at our age though. You absolutely have to be in shape, it's no longer optional. You have to dress sharp. You have to convey confidence and status with your body language.

Direct approach will be more of a problem over age 40 I think, but even that I'm not sure yet because I haven't field tested that myself yet. Overall, I wouldn't worry until age 50, and even then, just hit up the 30+ ladies that still look young (like you do, hopefully).

All that said, I do hope to find a great long-long term GF before I hit age 50 (i.e. before I hit the age range where women at first glance think "this man looks old", as per the study I quoted).

 

[Lantern]

I found the article the opposite of a downer. It basically tells you if you take care of yourself and develop as a man you'll still have pleanty of good looking women, younger and older, at your disposal. It's a positive message, not a negative one.

On topic, I'd say your "young" phase is up to your early 30's, mid and late 30s are this magical old-and-young at the same time period, and then as you step into your 40s you start getting into "old" territory in the context of dating younger girls. How fast you get into old category at that point will depend on how you lived your life so far, by which I mean, if you've been boozing, smoking, eating crap, living sedentary, chronically stressed etc, you'll start showing signs of age sooner.

I also see a bit of a lack of reading comperehension regarding the "business owner" aspect of Chase's article. As the man himself wrote, it's not about the money (not being broke) as it is about the frame. There's a slightly mystical thing that happens to men after they had a decade or two of properly wrestling with life, dealing with setbacks, making things happen, getting up after faliures, tasting success, learning and then going over the limits of their abilities and character etc. A reliable way to have a supply of situations which will make you go through such trials and tribulations is starting your own buisness, but there are others. I can imagine a guy in his 40s who's worked in a leading position in an NGO, but who made a bunch of big projects happen which made a difference, while not neccesarily making money himself, would have the same swagger an accomplished business man of the same age would. And if both of them took care of themsleves on the way (health, learning, socializing etc), I think they'd be very attractive to women of all ages.

 

[gameboy]

Tbh, I wouldn't even want to be with a 20 year old girl at this point (long term). I mean bang her, sure, if I get good enough. Still learning day game, as night game doesn't seem to be working for me anymore.

But as for a relationship, I find 20yos far too immature and annoying. Age 30-40 seems to be the sweet spot for me currently.

A hot body is awesome to look at, but what's more important for anything serious is that a girl is actually pleasant to be around.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

I found the article to be somewhat of a downer myself but I have to say, over the years, the idea of getting old in a lot of the game content out there has somewhat changed. A decade ago, it used to be that men peak in their mid-30s and can slay with the same younger women they were unable to get in their youth. Now it is more about getting mature in your 30s. This stuff used to seriously trip me up and a recent game situation as of late has me revisiting it.

Lately, game material out there has become more discouraging about life after 30 and getting the notch count up though.

What I have developed is a healthier attitude to aging now that I am approaching my 30s. One way or another, you are going to be "older" but the beauty of it is that you can kind of determine your life as you get old. IMO, if you want to just spend your entire life chasing women and increasing the notch count, it is okay because some of us actually got our lives and finances in order in our 20s.

The other key thing I realize about age is that while it might be a significant number, outside of major marks (grey hair and wrinkles), it is all about vibe. I have talked to dudes who were 25 and felt like I was talking to a 50-year-old. I have talked to dudes who are 35 and felt like I was talking to a 21-year-old in a good way, like they had their fun energy to them.

The other thing is you have to move to a big city, that is where it really changed for me. Once I moved to world-class cities, age became even less of a conversation.

I remember when I lived in NYC and hung out with these 2 Aussie dues who were in their late 30s (one 39 and one 38), constantly throwing house parties where they invited college girls and were practically a part of that entire circle. If I had to give any piece of advice to a younger dude (under 30) worrying about age as I once did, it would be to move to a world-class city ASAP.

You almost feel like you are forever 21 there. As soon as you hit the suburbs or small towns, even small cities, your age starts to actually become a number that matters.

 

[ulrich]

Tbh, I wouldn't even want to be with a 20 year old girl at this point (long term). I mean bang her, sure, if I get good enough. Still learning day game, as night game doesn't seem to be working for me anymore.

I chime here too. I don’t think I will want a 20 year old girlfriend when I am 50.

Fuck her? Yes.
Serious exclusive relationship with someone 30 years younger than me?… maybe for fucking, or maybe a flex… but definitely not for partnership.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

I am not the biggest fan of women in their early 20s but living in Miami, I feel like I deal with them a lot. The place draws in a lot of rich college girls, including the largest university here, and these women are all over the city. When it comes to partying, getting down, and nightlife, they seem to be out in prominent numbers. Excluding them means excluding a decent chunk of your market. Every spot I go to, even places I have lived in that I could not think college kids can afford, they are there.

It's been a unique experience to approach them tbh. A lot are in these massive cliques of judgmental friends when you do nightlife and the cliques are usually over 3 women strong. However, what I have found a bit odd in observing these well-off college girls is that despite their dislike for the "old" men, they push themselves toward older people rather unintentionally.

For example, there are frat houses (with rich frat guys whose parents buy them a Porsche at 19), bars near The U campus, and all of that but they go all the way downtown to places like The Wharf back when it was open. They will move into luxury apartment buildings meant for older people who have their lives together and somehow take it over rather than living in buildings near campus which are in perfectly good condition. They will party in places like Coconut Grove which was long meant for a more bohemian type of crowd and is at least a 50-minute walk away from The U.

That's what gets me. These girls supposedly hate "older" men but cannot confine themselves to just their college crowd or college venues, they just flood into venues that are not really meant for college kids and take it over.

My frame has kept me sane though lol. I am like "chick, you took an Uber to get here, I rolled out of bed and am here" in my mind.

I can understand it being "creepy" if an older dude talked to college chicks by creeping on the campus or something, I would find that creepy. But when college girls are flooding into the very places working adults live in, at what point does it become creepy on her end?

 

[Swati]

I've seen provider and lover aging is different for different social frames, the more developed a place more likely on the surface reject big age differences... in general.

Gun's around 44 the last time chatted on the forum, one of my wings, his 45, and he gets younger girls mostly 21-29, SNLs, he has a pretty strict rule about age, cause he wants to feel younger. His divorced has 2 kids whom he spends money for others to take care of when he goes gaming. His dedicated asf as you could tell. Yeah he paid his dues now he just wants casual sex

TBH I don't think it's gonna be a BIG problem, it's just annoying how oldie/young people want to project into the future with bright outcomes without putting in effort or thinking they gonna live forever type of shit. people's priorities change, have kids, have wives, have businesses, make money, travel blah blah then think all of a sudden you're an old fuck at 60 who wants some 10s that's blue-eyed/blonde to have your kids when your brain is 50% capacity.

Communicates laziness, and excuses, oh let me pray that I have the best luck in future decades, when the future is unforeseeable and could have wars happening, or get into a car crash

Mid-life crisis attitude. You know how annoying this fucking question is, self sensationalizing. got some moron couple weeks ago asking if you could be 80 years old and game 18 years old < I'm sure he mentioned 18 because he knows this is westernized game forum, if is in the east he probably say a lower age.

Not directed toward you DK

 

[RedNeck]

Lately, game material out there has become more discouraging about life after 30 and getting the notch count up though.

I tend to agree game materials have been progressively worse over the years.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

I think fearing time is a healthy thing for all men to do. When I was younger and in my early 20s, I wasted a lot of time mentally masturbating and did so for most of my 20s. It was not until I had a series of urgent events happen to me that I realized my time on this earth is limited and it changed the old me. It was different when I was 25 and constantly asking if I could date those same sorority girls I had no luck with in college, then as soon as I neared 30, it was like fuck I am here, time to get of my behind and take some action.

IMO, a lot of dudes need this healthy respect for time instead of thinking that they have forever to be doing what they are doing. When you operate on a strict time frame, you tend to take game, approaching, and just making things happen a lot more seriously. I have winged with dudes who have told me "oh I have my whole life to do this" and they are some of the worst guys to wing with. They are constantly wasting time, not approaching, halfa$$ing sets, and right where they were years ago.

It is important to keep perspective and I think Chase laid it out well when he said you have to be exceptional to do well.

I find that is true for all age groups.

The average high school guy is not dating the captain of the cheerleading squad, the exceptional one is.

The average college guy is a far cry from living the college experience, the exceptional ones are.

Likewise, the average older guy is rotting but the exceptional ones beat the stereotype, that was sort of my takeaway overall.

You have to be exceptional no matter what phase of life you are in to get results. Just because you turn 40 does not mean you will have women come to you. Because you changed your life in a major way and are far better than most 40 year olds, hot girls are coming your way.

 

[Atlas IV]

Some great insights in this thread. I agree with @Bunda Bumper, age is a false metric, it's really about how much work you've put in.

Hell if it's all about age, then @Teevster's got us all beat because he started PUA when he was 14!

For me, at 30 now, I realise that I've been treating game with laziness since I started 5 years ago. In the beginning I devoured GirlsChase articles and other content, but over time I became complacent because I always thought "you've got tons of time to figure this shit out". Doesn't matter what your age is, that's the wrong mindset.

To become good at anything requires a sense of urgency, anything short of that is just excuses for laziness. You also can't assume that your priorities will always be the same and that you'll "have time" to work on this at some indeterminate point in the future. If you died tomorrow, would you be happy with where you reached in life? If not, you've got to get to work on it now.

 

[Skills]

There are some good answers, obviously i am 49, still clubbing in younger clubs.... It depends on the dude, but again i said this so many times....

There are guys that bang through their whole life women, almost no breaks lets call them weirdos (me)

there are guys that took really long breaks from game to work on biz and other things and usually went ltr....(which is most normal dudes)...- this guys miss out the banging a lot younger women stages, cause they were out of the market, in my experience this are the older type of guys that still desire younger women.... I call them peter pan dudes...

imho the guys that kept banging with times they bang enough teens that eventually they are going to change the taste (this started going up for me between 44-47 were the attraction when for a little bit older..... My mental masturbation is that just like women look for honest signals (what we teach as seduction to replicate), i think our biology does the same, no i am not saying you will pass on a hot younger girl but your PREFERENCE will change, specially to date long term, and no is not cope again though i am attracted as of NOW, to older, the clubs i go to are younger (due to way more fun for me)....

Me explaining things like that won't make sense cause you need to wait and experience it yourself... When you get older i think cosy had a post you look even if is not your goal (body does this), for more of a computability long term factor (ingrained no logic) but this is mental masturbating, cause to be honest i don't really have a clear explanation.... Again this happened to me in the mid 40s and i may be projecting

Last week (but it happens a lot) i am grouping touching, doing it all this shit with younger hot, and my dick does not react i just go through motions..... A bit older the opposite same me same night same club...weird..

To answer your question after 47, it got a little bit more inconsistent but clubs also became more inconsistent so who knows.... But if you think you are old the girls and the field will let you know, otherwise keep going.....

most of you wont make it past 36 btw, a few past 38, i small minority post 40.... Game is taxing and leads to burn out for most... But the field will let you know and women if you are old....

i said this a million times, if you can look fraud like i do, and find a way to look in the 30s somehow you will be ok...


You guys with the age post once a month lol..... In fairness now was chase...I remember when i joined mpua at 35 killing it must guys were destroying me thinking i was in my basement.... Dealing with the age stuff forever....

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

One Silver Lining I will point to is that every passing generation seems to favor the Peter Pans. Marriage is on the decline, people are taking longer to "mature", and people are just doing their own thing. People are making money through Youtube channels rather than the 9 to 5 and just sort of living life how they want. Every passing generation favors the Older Man who wants to avoid marriage and just live his fun life assuming his other affairs are in order (finance, cash flow, health, fitness, and mindset).

I can only imagine how tough it would have been for a 40-year-old guy to hook up with lots of random women back when the control Christianity had on American culture was at its peak and you could not even curse on TV as readily.

My big limiting belief in my youth was life after college but imagine times when college did not even exist, how blurred the lines between 19 and 29 were given that people didn't live that long.

I think that the future decade or coming decades will see a ton of social changes that favor older guys wanting to continue the player life if they have their affairs in order.

No one can predict these things with full accuracy but lately, it just seems to be that way. It just seems like we are going to see a rise in circumstances that allow older guys to shamelessly pursue a life outside of marriage, LTRs, and kids. I am all for it and have high hopes for what is to come.

But to any younger guy who is stressed out about his age and what life looks like when you are older, I strongly urge you to leave the small town, suburb, or even mid-sized city you are in. Go to a world-class city and never look back. TBH, there is no point in living anywhere other than a major world-class city after the age of 25 anyways. Most other areas feel suffocating on a social level and the people make you feel like crap for not having a family life.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

most of you wont make it past 36 btw, a few past 38, i small minority post 40.... Game is taxing and leads to burn out for most... But the field will let you know and women if you are old....

This hit differently now that I am entering my 30s. The way I am thinking about it is that while I could see myself playing the field even after 40, the way by which I play the game will certainly change. At some point after 25, I could no longer deal with the club music or the same rap song from the early 00s playing on repeat. I started to avoid binge drinking like I used to because it comes with a host of health problems. Even going out to a nightclub and partying till 4 AM scares me because I want to make good use of my mornings and catch the sunrise when I can.

I think that as men get older, an autopilot or efficient strategy for meeting women needs to come up. It is not that we cannot go out and do long daygame sessions or do long cold approach sessions at a nightclub, it is just that we start asking the tough questions about time. At some point, I think guys need to get creative with age and almost design a life that attracts women as opposed to constantly going out.

 

[RedNeck]

@Skills, I am not raining on your parade, but I think you mentioned before you are on TRT. Nothing wrong with that, but can you share with us if this helped you at all?

 

[POB]

Bottom line:
- stay healthy and in fucking shape,
- take care of you skin and hair
- and please build a solid biz (even if you have a job, have a side biz).
The rest is all about learning game and adapting things to your own lifestyle and personality.

I'm 44 and still getting handjobs in the middle of the mall from women 15+ years younger than me, like the one I got yesterday.
The fun can last a very long time if you put your life together and don't screw up.